primary panel appeals

[brooke09]

Hi,can anyone help me,im going to a school appeal panel monday for infants,i have appealed twice already and was refused so this is last chance.my daughter goes to the preschool that feeds this infants but no joy still,we were refused on being 0.4 of a mile out of cathcment area.there is 40 pupils that have got places,the school she has been offered is walking distance from me but i refused this space as i was bullied at this school and afterwards in later life,i have healthvisitor letter to support this as recieved counciling aswel,so this school is not an option.i also have lots of family and freinds in the area i want her to go to so my family network is there.there was 11 people going to panel for a space at this school but then got a letter to say people have dropped out so it wont be an alday thing with the head master there now.hopefully this is a good thing,im very nervous about going to panel can anyone help,tell me what its like and whats my chances,and how many spaces do they reserve for appeals????????thanx

[cory]

They do not reserve any places for appeals: unless the cases for appeal are strong enough, they can refuse every single one.

If applications are being rejected, that means the school is full. They will only then offer extra places if there are very serious reasons: typically if you can show that the LEA have made a mistake and your child should have got a place before someone who did. Note that the only thing that counts as a mistake in this context is not following their own published criteria, and that the LEA will only be deemed to have made a mistake if they had all the relevant information.

The only other possibility is if you can show that there are very serious social or emotional reasons why your child needs this particular school rather than another- this is much harder for an infants school, but would be the one you would have to try for.

I wouldn't have thought the fact that you have suffered emotionally would carry that much weight with the panel: the offer of a school place is for your child, not for you, and he won't suffer from something that happened to you many years ago. Since it must be at least 20 years ago that you were bullied, so there is no reason to believe that there is a greater chance of bullying at this school now than at any other school; the same pupils will not be there, nor the same teachers. Even if there is a bullying problem, not every child is going to be the victim- the LEA will not see any reason to believe your ds is more likely to be bullied because you were. He is not you.

It may be that the LEA will still consider your appeal (though I would have thought prolly not), but that does not mean they will offer him a placed at your preferred school: they may offer a place at a more distant school which still has spare places.

[cory]

I do sympathise though; if you try you will have to argue along the lines that you would find it difficult to support your ds' relationship with this school.

[Panelmember]

This is what I said on the other thread. PRH also posted there.

Hello Brooke.

First things first. They don't set aside any places for appeals, so if your child is admitted it will be as an 'extra'. (I can say more about that, if you wish).

I'm confused by your description. You say you've appealed twice already - do you mean for this school? You can usually only appeal once a year for the same school.

You say that 40 children have been admitted. Does that mean that the school's PAN (which you can find in its brochure) is 40? How are the classes arranged? Is it 2 x 20?

Class sizes in key stage 1 are limited by law to 30 with one teacher. Where schools have 30 children in each infants' class, appeals are heard under infant class size rules. These mean that the panel can only admit the child if there has been a serious mistake in applying the admissions criteria which means that the child lost out.

But if the classes are smaller than 30, those rules don't apply. Instead you would have to show that the prejudice (disadvantage) to your child in not going to that school is greater than the prejudice to the school in having to take another child.

What does the letter from your HV say? You don't have to repeat it all here, but the panel will be looking for evidence that the school you are appealing for is the best one for your child. To be frank, though, I'm not sure how much weight the panel can give to a letter which is about your needs rather than your child's - that's why you need a letter which relates to your child, not only to you. To help you, the letter should give reasons for your child to go to your preferred school, not reasons not to go to the one you've been allocated, IYSWIM.

On the day, the hearing will start with the school/LEA stating why your child wasn't admitted. You can then ask questions. Then you get an opportunity to state why you think your child should be admitted, and the person from the LEA will ask you any questions. The panel should try to put you at your ease and make sure you've had an opportunity to put your views across.

If you give us more information, we may be able to offer more suggestions.

[brooke09]

I applied for the school as my first choice and was refused so then i appealed by letter and was refused and now its gone to panel the final stage.The reason my health visitor did the letter was to tell the panel that basically all my family and freinds network is in this area of my school choice,and so thats where all my support network is for me and my daughter,it also says how were trying to move to the area,the area im living at present is full of people that use to bully me at school and there children go to the local school so i could not face taking her there.because people still have issues with me.my daughter picks up on all of this which is not good,and i do suffer with deppression because of this.Also i stated in an appeal letter that child care is an issue as in some family members dont drive i drop my daughter of to preschool at present go to work and a freind or family member are in walking distance to pick her up until i finish work.this is perfect and would be if she got in2 chosen school.otherwise got to rethink whole thing.all of this does reflect on2 my daughter,on my letter from the school admission it says the admission level is 40 2 classes of 20,and says if they let my daughter in it would exceed the admission level.
sorry if it still confusing.
thanx for helping me im stressed lol

[brooke09]

also can you find out how many people are appealing?i had a letter saying there will no longer be a group presentation due to fall in number of appeals.they was originally 11 appealing for this school.
thanx brooke

[prh47bridge]

If you ask the LA they will tell you how many people are appealing.

The fact that the admission number is 40 means this is an ordinary appeal. That means you have a better chance of winning because you don't have to prove that the council have made a mistake. The problem you've got, as others have said, is that everything you've said here is about how it will be difficult for you if your child isn't admitted to this school. I'm afraid that, within the rules, this doesn't give the panel a reason to admit your child. The panel will be looking for reasons why your child will suffer if he/she isn't admitted. Will your child's social development suffer if he/she doesn't go to the local school? Are there facilities at the local school which your child needs and which are not available at the allocated school? These are the kinds of things which are likely to sway the panel.

[brooke09]

i know children can make freinds easily at young ages,my daughter has a very big personality and obviously all of her freinds are going to this primary school she is very poplar with all her freinds she adapts well to situations at school.can i not also state to the panel how it will effect her as in routine wise she has a good routine that she knows well, i drop her of go to work and family picks her up and it works well for her she knows her routine.if this was to change dramatically as in goes to totally different school different situation,have to change routine.this may affect her.i havent even told her that she is not going to school with her freinds yet,she just pressumes she is because all her little freinds are talking about it.breaks my heart and is stressful.can i not also use there after school clubs at the panal as in how things will be good for her??????
thanx brooke

[admission]

Brooke,
The fact that there are less people going to appeal is an advantage to you as the less there are with a PAN of 40 and 2 classes of 20, followed by what must be 3 classes across year 1 and year 2 the more likely the panel will be saying that the admission authority have not made their case to not admit.

If the submission from the LA does not include the size of the classrooms then I would find this out. I would suspect that they are standard size to take a class of 30 (more than 48 sq metres, preferably above 52sq metres) anbd you can then argue at stage 1 that the classes are clearly not full and neither will the other infant classes. It is quite possible that the year 3 to 6 classes will be large but that is for the panel to take consideration of.

You can argue in your case that you cannot go to the school allocated because of past issues connected to yourself but this is not a reason for admission to the school you are appealing for. Your child could go to any other school in the area and the issues of your past would not apply.

I would argue that this was your first preference school for the very reason that the other school was not appropriate and this was the easiest school to access and then attempt to improve the case by citing other reasons to go to this school as PRH as suggested. Use the fact that your daughter is in the pre-school to argue that she has friends that she wants to go to school with and her development will be affected by not being with her friends as one reason.

If most of the schools locally are full this may be a good enough case to admit, if other local schools have places then my view would be the panel will not admit. But you do need to go to the appeal and present your case.

[brooke09]

thank you for helping me with this,anouther thing is there are children that go to this school that live further away than myself,obviously i think this is unfair and they got in because there child care was in that area.i dont want to go to the panal and sound bitter by saying this,but do i have grounds there to say catchment area isnt set in stone then?
thanx brooke

[prh47bridge]

Children should have been admitted according to the admission criteria. Children in care are always admitted first, regardless of where they live. What happens after that varies from council to council but typically children with special needs (medical, educational, etc.) and children with brothers or sisters already at the school will be given priority. If the school has an attached nursery it may give priority to children who attend the nursery. Any child in one of these priority categories will be admitted regardless of whether or not they live in the catchment area.

All of this means that it is quite normal for children living further away to get in because they are higher priority. The panel will be aware of this so I'm afraid it doesn't help you.

Children will definitely NOT have been admitted on the basis that it is convenient for their child care arrangements.

[brooke09]

what about late applications?should they get in above me if they live nearer?and if so y do they as theres were late?
thanx brooke

[prh47bridge]

Yes, I'm afraid late applications can get in ahead of you. The admission criteria must be used to determine the order in which children are placed on the waiting list. The council is not allowed to put someone behind you on the waiting list simply because they applied late.

[cory]

Also remember that catchment does not necessarily = distance from school. The way our catchment boundaries were re-drawn, some children in the same road as the school ended up out of catchment while others from other end of the parish were in catchment. So you could well end up out of catchment while a child who lives half a mile further off is in catchment.

[brooke09]

Hi,good news daughter got into school. panel sided with us!!!!!!!!!!!!

[prh47bridge]

Well done.