Primary School Appeal Help

[DastardlyandSmugly]

I have an appeal date for our closest primary school on 21st May and I'm looking for help.

To recap we applied to 4 of our 5 closest schools and were not offered a place at any of them. Our appeal is a class size appeal for our closest school (I know these are rarely successful so am going in with eyes open). We're appealing on the following grounds:

1. We are in dispute with the LEA about the distance from our house to the school gate. They are using some online tools and come up with a distance of 635m. We have hired a measuring wheel and walked the distance which is 607m. This doesn't get us directly into the school but does get us much higher up the waiting list.

1. Last year the school had a three class intake. This year it's only a two class - so the school clearly has capacity for three classes. Given that there is clear pressure on places in my area (I have council papers acknowledging this) and 421 children were not offered a place on offer day, this seems to be terrible planning on the LEA's part. I've been told by a local politician that the council are not averse to putting an additional class on at the school but are waiting to see how the land lies.

1. My husband works away a lot so I am frequently left taking the DCs to school by myself. I work full-time and don't drive. DD attends a nursery a 20 min walk from our house and we walk past this school on the way up there. Surely it's unreasonable of the council to make it more difficult for me to attend work?

1. The Admissions Code states that 'The Government is keen to promote sustainable, healthy travel to school (for example walking or cycling). It is while children are young that habits of a lifetime are set. If children habitually walk or cycle at primary age then we maximise their chances of choosing healthy travel options in the future. Where possible, the admission authorities for primary schools should ensure that their admission arrangements encourage children to walk or cycle safely to school, and for other schools, admission arrangements should support sustainable and healthy travel.' The options that the council are currently proposing is that we apply for schools quite some distance away which would involve using transport to get there and back.

1. We want our DS to be part of a local community. Almost all his friends from nursery will be attending either this school or one of the others that we applied to. We know a lot of people in the area and we would like our DS to have close access to his friends and his school.

Overall we feel like the LEA have let us down badly. Of the schools in our ward we can't get our DS into a single one. We seem to live in a no man's land, and this is despite the fact that one of the governers at the school we're trying to get our DS into lives on our street.

I'm hoping some of you with experience of this (legal or personal) can help with how we might conduct the appeal and what kind of things we might need to take in there. We're very nervous about it.

Thanks in advance.

[DastardlyandSmugly]

Bumping

[titchy]

No real advice I'm afraid - only sympathy. But I would think that 1 - the data points they used will be more accurate by far than a wheel. 2 - this would be my argument. 3 - 5 are ideals, and not grounds for an appeal.

prh and admissions may be able to help further.

[Bramshott]

I'd concentrate on points 1 and 2. I think for an infant class size appeal you are trying to prove that they made a mistake (which is what your point 1 does), or that there are special extenuating reasons (eg. point 2 - 30 places have been withdrawn from this school this year).

Point 3-5 are relevant to you, and to wider education policy but not really to the panel - sorry!

[DastardlyandSmugly]

Titchy thanks for your response and I agree that 2 is the strongest bit.

I honestly think their measurements are wrong. We used the wheel both ways and it came up with the same outcome. They say it's the shortest lit walking distance and we have walked that distance.

Anyone else have any advice?

[prh47bridge]

To take your points one at a time:

1. I doubt the LA has used online tools. They should have a GIS (Geographical Information System) which they have used to determine the measurement. That will be more accurate than a measuring wheel. It also won't cut corners, which may be where some of your shorter distance comes from. If they are using the shortest walking route your best chance of disputing this would be to show that there is actually a shorter route than the one the LA has used and that it is short enough to mean your child should have been admitted.

1. That's interesting but it may not help you at the appeal. The panel should work with the admission number that has been set. It does, however, seem odd that the council reduced the admission number for this school when there is a shortage of places. However, it is possible that the higher admission number last year was for one year only to cope with a problem, in which case the school may not be able to cope with 3 form entry every year. Or has the school had the higher admission number for several years? I would certainly ask the LA for an explanation of why they've dropped the admission number. It would be worth asking this question before the hearing so that you know what they are going to say if you ask the same question in the hearing and therefore whether or not this line of questioning might help you. I'd also ask about the comments of the local politician if he is a councillor (or was at the time the comments were made) - less useful if he/she was just standing for election. Of all the grounds you have stated it seems to me that this one is your best chance, although it is still a long shot.

1. I sympathise but I'm afraid that isn't an issue the appeal panel can consider in an infant class size case. Lots of parents bring up similar problems with childcare and/or transport. I suspect you are looking at the infant class size rules and suggesting that the council has been unreasonable in refusing admission. The barrier you have to get over here is very high - for "unreasonable" read "irrational". By the way, if the allocated school is more than 2 miles walking distance away from your home, the council has to provide free transport for your child if you request it.

1. Again, I'm afraid that doesn't help you. It does not suggest that the council has made a mistake in refusing admission to your child or that they have behaved unreasonably. They have fulfilled this requirement by using distance to determine which children are admitted to the school.

1. I sympathise with your views. However, I'm afraid this isn't a factor in an infant class size appeal.

To succeed with your appeal you need to show that the council has made a mistake and your child should have been admitted. This may be that they have placed your child in the wrong admission category or that they have got the distance to your home wrong, e.g. because there is a shorter route. Without that your chances of success are minimal. It is still worth appealing, though. Something may emerge at the hearing which persuades the panel to find in your favour. Even if the appeal is rejected your position is no worse than it is now. And if the council decide to add another class to the school you may still get in.

After introductions the hearing will start with a statement from the council's representative saying why your child should not be admitted to this school. If you haven't already had their written case you should receive it shortly. The council's statement should closely follow their written case. They certainly shouldn't introduce any significant new evidence.

The panel will then ask the council's representative some questions and you will also get a chance to ask questions. This is when you should bring up your point about the reduced admission number. Also, if you manage to find a shorter route, you should bring this up.

If there are other people appealing for a place at this school you may be all together in the hearing up to this point so that the council only has to present its case once.

In the second part of the appeal you present your case. You can say whatever you want (within reason). If you've found a shorter walking route, bring that up again. Say something about the reduced admission number and how it doesn't seem to make sense. You can bring up the other points as well. Emphasise any needs your child has which will only be met by your preferred school. That's where your point 5 comes in - you should talk about the damage to your son's social development if he isn't able to go to the local school. If the panel decide that it is an infant class size appeal this stuff won't help you but you need to get it in there in case they decide that infant class size rules don't apply.

After that, the panel and the council's representative may ask you some questions. The council's representative will then be asked for a final statement and you will also have a chance to make a final statement. Keep it short and emphasise the strongest points of your case. In my view, in the absence of a shorter route to the school, your point 2 is your strongest argument.

[DumpyOldWoman]

Huge sympathies.

Have you put yourself on the waiting list for all the nearest schools? Places do often come up before the start of term and even within the first couple of weeks when people who have moved away or have made other arrangements have failed to to tell the LEA.

[screwtape]

You will get good advice from the Mumsnet admission appeal experts and I hope it helps you next Friday.

I'm not one of those experts but I do think I know which school you are talking about and I'm very sympathetic to your situation. Perhaps you live in a town with a big clock tower in the central marketplace? If you don't just ignore everything I say!

If I am right then, as you say, specific classroom provision at your closest school was made in 2009 (at very short notice) for just this emergency (lack of RYr places for the 2009 and 2010 intakes). It seems absurd for the LEA to go back down to the published 60 because it was a year out in terms of when it thought the emergency would start. Word has it that the strategy man at the LEA is sympathetic to you as a group of parents. Have you also considered talking to the Admissions Forum in your area?

[DastardlyandSmugly]

prh47bridge thanks for your comments. You are correct the council have used the GIS system but I still honestly don't see how that is more accurate than us actually walking the route and measuring it. They have used some straight lines in their calculations but that isn't the shortest route.

As for allocation of a school we haven't been allocated one at all. We've pretty much been left by the LEA to work out what to do with no help or advice. Pretty crappy system really. They may provide transport but that isn't going to help me getting to work - I know you're saying that isn't relevant but it makes me bloody furious!

On the additional class thing they added the extra class last year as they had a huge increase in children with no offer (300) but this year it's increased to 421 yet they have reduced the classes from three to two. The politician with the info was actually standing for parliament in my borough and didn't get in but he did copy in the local councillor who has been agitating for us as well.

Dumpyoldwoman yes we're on the waiting list for pretty much all of our local schools now. We're 7th for the school we're appealing and then 5th, 8th, 20th, 55th and 57th. I know places do come up but we're really not moved at all on the lists since we receieved no offer. It's a horrible position and I feel like we've let down our DS by buying a house in the wrong place.

screwtape I'm not sure where you mean but the scenario you've mentioned sounds correct. They did add the extra class quite late on in the day when they realised they were in trouble but then have dropped the class for 2010 intake despite the fact that the number of children with no offers has increased significantly.

I hope I don't sound too shrill on this thread btw. I'm genuinely grateful for the help and advice but am desparate and worried and have been living with the stress of this since 19th March.

[DumpyOldWoman]

When is the date for confirming places?

I wouldn't expect there to be much movement in the list until about a week after the confirmations have to be in (to give them time to process it) and then again just before the start of term.

7th and 5th sounds hopeful - at the DCs school, places also came up at the start of Yr 1. Do you live in an area of high mobility?

If you are in London, close to a sought after over-subscribed school, there is often a trickle of people leaving because families who moved to get in move again when they need to get their older child into the catchment of a favoured secondary. 2 places in one of DCs classes came up because of that. Grim, but true (and likely to make one cynical).

[DastardlyandSmugly]

I just called again and we're now 6th on our closest school so a little movement. Offer acceptance day was 19th April and we actually went down a place just after that which was soul destroying.

We are in London and we are apparently in an area of high mobility so everyone keeps telling us to be hopeful but it's really hard. I want to get my DS excited and ready for this change.

[BetsyBoop]

re your point 1 - you can ask the LA for a map showing the walking route they used so you can check it is actually the shortest route (not unheard of them to not know about a footpath etc) However do check how they define what is an acceptable route, it does vary, some LAs only count it if it has street lighting, others if it is tarmaced etc. You can't argue a wheel vs GIS, as none of the other applicants were measured using a wheel. You can successfully argue that they didn't use the shortest (acceptable) route available if they didn't. They will then have to measure this route in GIS & if it was short enough to get you a place then your DC will be admitted.

Point 2 - it really depends if it was a one-off "bulge" class or not. If it was a bulge class you have less of a case (as presumably the school does not have space for 7 extra classes to make this a permanent increase in numbers) As has already been said, the panel have to work to the PAN set, but it all helps the case for the possibility of an extra class this year too.

points 3-5 as has already been said, they are ideals, but won't really help you win an ICS appeal. Still include then in your case (as PRH says, just in case it isn't classed as an ICS appeal) but keep the emphasis on points 1 & 2.

good luck

[BetsyBoop]

PS
you will probably see a bit more movement closer to September, as people take up private school places etc (as they often hang on to a state place "just in case")

[prh47bridge]

A good trundle wheel is accurate to about 1% so has a possible error of a little over 6m in the distance you are talking about. A GIS measurement would be far more accurate than that. A GIS system would typically measure in straight lines running up the centre of every road/footpath used and with no cutting of corners. That would usually produce a longer measurement than you would get using a trundle wheel. There is also the question of precisely where on your property and the school's property they use as the end points for the measurement - if, for example, you are measuring from your front gate but they measure from the centre of your property that would add a few metres to their measurement.

The LA may well specify in their admission criteria that the distance is as measured by their GIS system. If they do, their GIS system trumps any alternative form of measurement. You will, in any case, have a lot of difficulty persuading an appeal panel that a trundle wheel produces a better measurement than the GIS system.

I'm intrigued by your comment that "they have used some straight lines in their calculations but that isn't the shortest route". Do you mean that their route measurement doesn't follow the roads/footpaths or that you have identified a shorter route than the one the LA has used? Or do you mean something else?

I am very surprised that the LA hasn't allocated a school for you. In general they are required to find a place for your child. There is a kind of "get out of jail free" card in the regulations in that if there are insufficient places to go round they are only required to ensure that they leave the minimum number of children without the offer of a place. However, leaving 421 children without places is excessive - that means they need another 15 reception classes. If there were 300 children without places last year they should have known that they were likely to have a problem again. In my view it simply isn't good enough to leave you to work it out for yourself. With that many children without places there is no chance that you could find a place for your child. They are basically hoping that people will go private, move out of the area or home educate. Not acceptable.

If they only added the extra class last year that makes it less useful. It may be that the school only had enough capacity for an additional class for one year only. They presumably now have 3 classes in Year 1 instead of the normal 2. There may not be enough classrooms for 3 Reception classes as well. It is worth finding out whether the school actually could handle an additional reception class. However, I would still pursue it, especially if your councillor can back up what the parliamentary candidate said - the parliamentary candidate may have been speculating rather than stating fact but the councillor should be able to determine the truth. I would also bring up the serious shortage of places in the LA and the fact that you haven't been offered a place anywhere. Strictly speaking it doesn't give the panel a reason to admit your child but it does highlight that the LA has failed to meet its responsibilities.

You should also be asking the LA what they are going to do about finding a school for your son. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, make a complaint in writing (email will do) to the Admissions Manager and the Director of Children's Services.

You don't sound at all shrill. I'm not surprised you are worried. I hope you get a good result, either through the appeal or by the LA pulling their fingers out and sorting things out.

[DastardlyandSmugly]

Betsyboop we just honestly can't see how they got their measurement unless they measured to a different gate which they have said they didn't.

We have asked for a map, which they said they'd send. Then when they didn't we mentioned it to our councillor. We then got a very arsey response back from the LEA. We're expecting to receive the map in the pre-appeal pack. I don't think they'll concede this point to us though.

Can you tell me where I get the PAN numbers from? I've looked all over our council website and can't find them anywhere. The additional class was a bulge class but, given that children without places has increased by 121 this year surely that suggests that this class is still required. And this increase is despite increases in intake size at other local schools.

I understand about the movement increasingly closer to September - and I do know some people hanging onto places - but this doesn't really reassure right now I have to admit. I'm just desparately worried and want to do the right thing for DS.

Thanks again for responding though.

[DastardlyandSmugly]

prh47bridge I did think that the council would stick by their measurement as they've been adamant when we've phoned and discussed it with them.

With regards to the straight line comment they have told us that they measured from our front gate to the centre of the road and then in straight lines up to the school gate. We measured from our gate to the school gate but as you would walk so cutting out corners etc.

They have been awful with regards to school allocation. All they keep telling us is to apply for schools with places but my guess is that you are right and that they are anticipating that the overspill will be filled with people going private, moving or home educating.

I've found some meeting minutes on their website that suggests that they are concious of the problem. They did add the school class at the school we're appealing late in the day last time when they realised the scale of the problem. This time round they've added extra classes at a number of other local schools (not this one) but still had an increase in children without an offer of 121 children - that seems terrible planning to me.

I'll ask the councillor if she can confirm. The parliamentary candidate mailed me the below comment:

'The Council have confirmed to me that if necessary they will be willing to have an additional class at the school but they are holding fire to see how things settle down because sometimes they have put extra classes on and found they have not been needed.'

[CarGirl]

If their admissions criteria states shortest walking route using GIS then I don't give you much hope.

If it doesn't and only states "shortest WALKING route via lit blah blah blah" then I personally think you can argue your case. You have proved that the GIS is not sufficiently accurate enough to measure shortest walking route and just as they made your route longer it is quite feasible that they have made the routes shorter to other addresses. YOu absolutely need the map showing their entrants locations.

You can argue that because they used an inaccurate tool to measure shortest walking route as per their admission criteria that you were penalised unfairly.

Does that make sense?

[admission]

As far as your appeal is concerned PRH has indicated that there are only two that are going to carry any weight as it is an infant class size case. I agree with them.

The GIS system is always going to be more accurate as a straight line distance between two points than a measured distance via a walking route. But that is the system that the LA have stated is used and therefore any other measure can at best be used as a means of suggesting that the LA have got it wrong. All distances have to be measured by a set method and the GIS system is the one chosen.

I would definitely ask now for the route that the LA have used for the measurement. Check very carefully which route is the shortest. You will not win the case by simply arguing that the distance is wrong you have to prove that the distance is wrong because the LA have not used the shortest walking distance. Look very carefully at the LA guidance and see whether they say anything else but shortest lit walking distance. My guess would be that they use the data they have on street lights to establish which routes are acceptable, so check very carefully that the routes have street lights as opposed to lighting from elsewhere. If at the appeal the LA comes up with any other arguement about what routes it uses then argue strongly that there is nothing in writing on this and they cannot just put in a new set of conditions.

As far as the reduction in numbers is concerned if it was a one off decision last year then unless there is excess accomodation in the school already available I am not sure that it is a sustainable arguement at an admission appeal. It is a sustainable arguement with the LA that they are idiots and have not planned properly but not with an admission panel that has to go with the available accomodation, that is the PAN of 60.

You actually have a few days before the appeal and I might be tempted to send an urgent comnfidential email to the Director of Children Services and the appropriate Councillor in charge of Childrens Services. Point out that you have an appeal on the 21st, that you are one of 421 pupils that do not have any place for September and indicate that after the appeal hearing you will be going to the press to air your views on the subject. Would they like to comment?

Sometimes the direct approach is the right approach and what most LAs do not like is bad publicity, especially at this sensitive time.

[DastardlyandSmugly]

Thanks admission and CarGirl.

admission I'm going to talk over your advice with my DH tonight and I may put it into practice tomorrow.

[Blu]

Our borough have some criteria about the route such as it must have a proper surfaced path and lighting - a shortcut across a playing field, or path through an unlit pedestrian alley wouldn't be counted.

And if they have used GIS won't it also have counted equally against other applicants?

Good luck - I do hope the waiting list continues to reduce.

[BetsyBoop]

Can you tell me where I get the PAN numbers from?
They are often in the admissions booklet (the one that has details of all schools). If you don't mind saying which LA, I'll look to see if I can find it.

If it was a bulge class then it is highly likely that they will put a bulge class at a different school this time if they need one. (which it sounds like they need more than one!) A school will sometimes have one "spare" classroom, but not many schools have 7 spare classrooms, which is what is needed to make a PAN increase permanent (or build more of course, but that isn't a quick/cheap fix). Make sure you are on any/all possible waiting lists as they usually populate bulge classes from the waiting list first.

[DastardlyandSmugly]

Betsyboop am in Wandsworth. The school is Swaffield.

They have added some extra classes already (pre offer day) at Beatrix Potter, Sheringdale and Belleville that I know of - some more as well I believe in other parts of the borough. This hasn't stopped there being 421 children without an offer.

We're currently on the lists for most of our closest schools. There are a couple that we haven't applied to as we're too far way for it to be credible that we'd be offered a place.

[BetsyBoop]

off to look...

There are a couple that we haven't applied to as we're too far way for it to be credible that we'd be offered a place.

If you would consider them, check how many are already on waiting lists, if less than, say 40 you have nothing to lose - if they add another class of 30 - from the waiting list - you might just get a place.

[BetsyBoop]

if you look in the document here
it says the "Admissions Number" for Swaffield is 60 - this is the same as the PAN (Published Admissions Number)

[DastardlyandSmugly]

That's true. I'll look at doing that.

[prh47bridge]

The admission number is in the "Choose a Wandsworth Primary School" booklet which is still available on Wandsworth's website. Swaffield has an admission number of 60 which is consistent with 2 reception classes. Last year they admitted children living up to 579m away.

The admission criteria specify "the shortest route with street lighting as measured by Wandsworth Council's Geographical Information System". As I've already said you aren't going to be able to contest the GIS measurement successfully. However, you should check which route they have used in case there is a shorter route that they have missed.

I'm not generally a fan of going to the press but in this instance I agree with Admission. Having 421 children without places is appalling and the LA need to be stung into action.