Appeal or not bother?

[belly36]

We were turned down by our catholic school, we were 69th out of 60 and lost out on distance to the school. I've already applied to go on the waiting list, but not sure how much movement there is at the school.

The thing is, many of the people who turned up to have their forms signed haven't been back to church. The admission criteria states "weekly family attendance at Sunday Mass" so clearly this hasn't been followed. But we don't have any firm proof of this apart from the fact that the church is a heck of alot emptier these days.

So is it worth appealing on these grounds? I don't mind filling in the form and attending the hearing. I'm not going to get emotional about it at the hearing, but I would like them to admit that their admissions policy is not being followed properly.

We actually applied to five catholic schools, but obviously alot further away from those, so didn't stand a chance. We got our local primary school which is OKish, same level of Ofsted but not church.

So now here's the complication. I'm 39 weeks pregnant. Appeal is due to be heard at the beginning of June and forms have to be back by 21st May. Is this just expecting too much of ourselves?

Also, am I allowed to mention specific things about this school that particularly appeal to us? Or would this just hinder us? I'm thinking things like I went there as a child and was very happy there, I'd like DS to experience this too. I like the extra curricular activities. I don't intend to mention anything about not liking offered school as there's nothing particular about it I don't like.

[Tortington]

i think if you want to appeal, you have to have solid ground - ie the rules not being followed properly, rather than whimsy 'i went there as a child and was happy'

id say, as long as you think you wont get stressed - go for it - if they say no, you're only in the position you are in now

[annh]

What actual grounds are you going to use for your appeal? Definitely do not mention that you are not happy with your allocated school, appeal panels take a very dim view of that. Also the reasons you have mentioned so far - that you went to the school as a child etc - are not valid grounds for appealing. You need to have concrete reasons such as that the admissions criteria were incorrectly applied e.g. you actually live closer to the school than they have measured, but it doesn't sound as if that is the case.

The admissions committee can only go on the evidence which is presented to them so if all 60 families who have received places had a supplementary form signed by the priest then they have to accept that evidence. They can't start skulking around in the bask of the church to see how many of those families are actually there. Unfortunately, they all obviously were there for some time around the admissions time in order to get the form signed. However, I don't know why the church would get noticeably quieter now, given that next year's batch must already be thinking about admissions so are they not filling the pews?

[mummytime]

If it is an infant class size appeal then unless they made a mistake in their admissions procedures you are unlikely to win. The grounds you want to stress are why this school would be the best for your child. So religious faith, then any extra-curricula activities, after school clubs, preparation for first communion, any thing else.
I would contact the school or whoever holds the waiting list and find out about movement and where you are now on the waiting list.

[Panelmember]

Will this be an infant class size appeal (which it will if classes in KS1 have 30 children)?

If so, you are very unlikely to win an appeal unless you can demonstrate that there has been a serious error or maladministration which has deprived your child of a place. By all means mention the 'softer' stuff like your attendance at the school but it won't really address the issue.

The difficulty in this case, I think, is in proving that procedures haven't been followed. Much depends on the detail of the admissions criteria. Presumably, families are required to have a letter signed by the priest to confirm that they have attended mass every week for whatever period the admission criteria specify. But, presumably, too the admissions criteria say nothing about needing to keep up the church attendance during the time that the child is at the school. So, if the family turns up every week until the application date, gets their letter signed by the priest and is never seen at church again, all the requirements of the admissions criteria have in fact been complied with. For better or worse, the admissions criteria can't deal with the problem (if you see it as a problem) of families who abandon church attendance once they've got their place at the school.

It's annoying, I'm sure, but it sounds as if your grounds of appeal would amount to being a more faithful Catholic than the families who got places and I doubt that any panel could or would get into that sort of argument. The appeal can't reconsider the basis on which other children were admitted to the school and, even if it could, might well decide that the letter of the admissions criteria had been complied with.

Only you can decide whether you want to spend the time and energy on an appeal.

Being 69th does not sound too bad. Do you know where you are on the waiting list?

[belly36]

annh - Form signing time is generally around November time so they wouldn't be filling the pews just yet...

OK, thanks mummytime. I will mention things about preparation for holy communion etc.

The woman I spoke to at the office was quite nice, said there are always one or two that drop out. We have to wait for the two-week period for people to accept/decline their places to finish before we can get an idea of whereabouts we are on the list, for now I'll assume 9th-ish.

I'm not expecting to win the appeal (we don't really have any proof/grounds), which is why I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble of going through. I'm pretty sure their distance is accurate, although tney haven't told us the distance they used yet (it's the council system, so very accurate). I am just a bit peeved with people getting around the system.

DS isn't four yet so he'll be a youngster starting reception anyway. I'll keep him on the waiting list each year to see if a place comes up.

[cory]

Personally, I would not go through the appeals process if I had no hope of winning- maybe that's just me, but I found it very stressful, despite the panel being kind and understanding and having a strong case.
You still have to sit there listening to the school explaining how they are full to bursting point and basically really don't want to take your ds.

[prh47bridge]

With an admission number of 60, this is likely to be an infant class size appeal. To succeed you will have to show that the school has made a mistake in refusing to admit your child. Without seeing their admission criteria it is difficult to say what your chances are. However, my initial reaction is that this is unlikely to succeed. If a family stops attending Sunday Mass once they've got the necessary evidence for the school that's just one of those things. If the school was checking up to make sure they didn't stop as soon as they got the form signed the families concerned would probably just continue attending until they had received their offer, at which point it is too late for the school to do anything about it. You have, in any case, admitted that you don't have any firm proof.

I would appeal anyway as you never know what will happen. The worst possible outcome is that you are in exactly the same position as you are now. It may be that something will come out in the appeal that will persuade the panel to admit your child.

[admission]

There is absolutely nothing to stop you appealing, even if you have a very low level of chance of succeeding. You also do not have to go to the appeal and quite frankly you have a very good reason not to want to go. As a panel member I might be crossing my fingers and hoping that you make it through the day - never actually had an appealant go into labour at an appeal but i suppose it has happened somewhere!

Of course by not attending you are reducing your chances of success because you are not available to answer any questions.

I think i would appeal and see how things go. About a week before hand I would tell the clerk of the panel that you want to be there but things might not work out like that. So if you do not turn up start without you. You do need to tell them because if they are a decent clerk they will be on the phone to you asking where you are and are you coming.

[belly36]

Thanks both, I'm also of the opinion appeal anyway as worst case scenario is lose which puts us in the same position we're in now.

As for going into labour. I'll have given birth by the hearing. But it could come down to giving birth a week or so before. So I'll be all post-natally shaped and none of my smart clothes will fit (also shopping for new clothes will probably be last thing on my mind). I could end up turning up in my maternity wear and not looking my best. Or I could be just too knackered to attend.

Like I said, there's nothing about the school we have been offered that we don't like. We put it down in last place just because it's our catchement school and we'd rather have that school than another school. It's OK, it has an Ofsted 2, its results for maths and english aren't the best, but it doesn't worry me too much as the school still seems good. Only downside is they don't do French in infants and DS is already learning French in nursery. I don't know anything about the PTA or how to get involved with the school like I do our parish school but I guess once he starts I'll find out...