disciplinary warning letters in primary school

[theweasel]

My son Year 1 is being bombarded almost daily with warning letters to bring home. They inform me that he has done time out or been sent to a foster classroom for unacceptable behaviour such as talking, calling out answers, not sitting still for long learning periods. The school insists that parents sign the letters and return them within 48hrs to confirm that we have spoken to the child about their unacceptable behaviour. It feels like an extended punishment for my child and harrassment for me the parent. Its a newly implemented system at our school and is creating an ethos of fear and pressure among children and parents alike. These offence letters are also creating an official paperwork backed reputation for my son as a naughty boy. Actually he's very bright and bored. Are these letters common proceedure? Has anyone received torrents of letters and been successful in forcing the school to recognise the damage they cause?

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

Do you have ds's old headteacher running your school? She'd phone me up (whilst I was at work) and ask me to go in to discuss ds and what was sometimes really minor things. Ds has also been on a report that was designed to let me know what mischief he was up to but ended up having the most pathetic reasons written on it I had to ask them to stop (ds dropped a pen twice, ds asked to draw a picture as he had finished his work, ds sneezed, ds forgot his homework etc). I know it's important to support the school and show your child some consistency (both singing from the same song sheet and all that) but when your child is told off for sneezing three times in the christmas play (I was there!!), it gets a bit much. It makes you paraniod when you collect your child as you expect a detailed description of every minor little thing. I feel your pain!! Can you get together with the other parents and complain??

[FlorenceDaphne]

But surely the school is just trying to communicate with you. I think I would want to know if my son was in trouble every day. And, if it's just for very minor things (have you ever tried to teach a class of thirty children and have constant disruptions from people refusing to be quiet and shouting out?)then everyone else should be having the same letters. And if they're not having the same letters, then your son is being worse than everyone else. So you need to know. Obviously, for sneezing is just silly.

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

I think that a child's behaviour at home and at school is very different. A parent can support the school and talk to their child about shouting out (example), they can go through why it is wrong and what they should do instead, they can remove TV/computer privilages but as they are not actually in the school with them what else can they do?

My son was in trouble today for talking to his friend in class (there were others talking), his teacher then started talking so he was told off for being 'disobedient' and interupting her. I tried to explain this to him, he's sensible most of the time, all I get is a little slip saying he's been disobedient. I know he's told me the truth as she does this regularly (he's not there to learn or make friends, just to follow the word of god apparantly). What are parents expected to do??

[theweasel]

Have complained to head directly but she just digs her heels in and declares that every child is responsible for their own behaviour even at the age of 5 and 6.Personaly, I think that at that age kids need to be shown how to behave and alot of their behaviour is reaction based or just thoughtless and carefree. Lots of parents grumbling but not wanting to rock the boat so I think I'd be the one waving the flag at the front with nobody standing behind me.

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

I think children make alot of mistakes, it's part of growing up. It's no use telling them off all the time though, they need guidance, someone to say "stop! What are you doing? We don't do that, it's not ...., this is what we do...."

All you really can do is support the school, accept them and say you will talk to your child and do this. Show them that this behaviour is not acceptable, explain why and what they should do instead. Depending on it's severity, decide what further action to take (written appology/missed TV time etc). It's tedious but it serves a purpose. It's for you to decide how tedious it is though, if it gets too much then vote with your feet. They are still children, everyone makes mistakes. Calling out is a PITA for the teacher and everyone else, this should be tackled first, star charts work well. Children this age can't sit still for long periods, this is something learned with age and maturity, it's unreasonable for them to expect this.

[mamas12]

could you perhaps do the same kind of 'report' about what you said in original op.
My child is bright and bored and you are not helping to fulfill his/her potential at all.
His behaviour is good at home so I think you need to give your teaching methods another look etc. Then give them 48hrs to sign and write a plan of what they are going to do about it.

If only you could eh.

Agree make an app. with the head and discuss the fact that this isn't working is it.

[theweasel]

To my mind teaching is not solely about disciplinary measures to maintain control. Its also about ,empathy, encouragement,praise, comfort and fun. Whatever happened to fun. I also find my son being reprimanded for very little. They can't all be the quiet ones. I feel that today some teachers mask their professional weaknesses by relying heavily on measures such as warning letters. They are an obvious prop for a newly qualified teacher.In which case school becomes a very negative way of life for some children,not because they are worse than anyone else but often because they are just different. I find it very worrying in relation to children as young as my son who in Reception developed the anxiety disorder OCD because of punative measures at school. No child deserves to be anxious or depressed regardless of whether or not others think them the worst behaved.
My son recently got a warning letter for "inappropriate touching" as he prodded a 6 yr old girl in his class on her buttock as she bent down to change her shoes!
These letters are like Infant asbos. I could wallpaper my house with mine, I have so many. Children do childish things after all don't they?

[madwomanintheattic]

this sort of experiment is usually short-lived, so i wouldn't worry too much. our most recent school introduced a similar system but with cards - so you had to take a yellow card home, or a red card etc. in the end the staff realised it was causing a lot of problems with self esteem etc and abandoned it.

but agree with others who say support the school - but raise your concerns privately with the head (if this is a whole-school system) or the class teacher (if just his class).

oh, and 'bright but bored' is no excuse. if he's that bright, it's time he learned that follwing the rules, however petty, is pretty much expected until you are of an age to make deliberate anti-establishment moves...

it all sounds a bit sad, but your ds needs to know that you support the school. setting him up with 'school have got it wrong' in y1 is probably not a great idea.

bright but bored needs raising at parent's evening with specifics regarding to appropriate differentiation, not as an add-on to a complaint about how the school handles discipline. (ie 'thick children shouldn't be allowed to behave badly but ds can because he's bright and they aren't stimulating him' - it'd come over all wrong, however much you attempted to explain that you really meant that they weren't engaging their students at an appropriate level, and would lose you mucho credibility points)

so question their discipline methods, but avoid criticising their teaching at this point lol. it's about setting your target.

i think it'll blow over anyway tbh. these fads always do.

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

Children that are constantly being disciplined for anything and anything do develop self esteem problems, they begin to think that the teachers are waiting for them to do something wrong and are watching them all the time, just waiting to tell them off, it makes them paraniod. We've been here, it's not good for a child to feel like this as it really does destroy the relationship that they have with not just that teacher but every teacher after that. They no longer see the child-teacher relationship as a guiding/teacher relationship and they find it really difficult to trust any teacher afterwards. It's taking both myself and ds's new school a very long time and a great deal of effort to repair the damage that has been caused to him and there's still a long road ahead. He still believes that a comment from a teacher ('can you put that down please' etc) is a telling off, it's not. It's a teachers job, like a parent, to guide them and give them support (as well as to teach etc), children need to be able to trust them and look at their own behaviour in order for them to improve it rather then feel 'got at' all the time.

No child is perfect, I don't think a big deal should be made if they stray down a wrong path. It's not the end of the world.

[smee]

Does seem a bit mad to me, especially in such young children. Just so you can see how it is elsewhere and compare, we have a traffic light system. Red being really quite naughty. But even if they're on red they can come back to Green within a very short space of time. Three reds in a week means they have to go and see the Head Teacher and at that point a letter may go to the parents, when they're invited to come in and have a chat with their child. I don't think anyone in DS's Yr1 class has got to that stage.

[claig]

I am with you OP. It is a ridiculous policy. In the end it will lead your DS not to care anymore and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It will cause him to dislike the teacher and the school and lose all respect for them. On the positive side he will be able to make a lot of paper planes with the endless stream of paper that they are issuing him.

[Hulababy]

I do agree it seems overkill to get a letter for every issue. We don't do this at all.

However, my concern would be that my child had done enough to have so many, not that school had sent so many home TBH.

Being bright but bored is not an excuse for poor behaviour. A bright child is very capable of knowing school rules and following them.

Why is he bored? Have you asked school about this matter, and seen if he is being challenged and if not why not?

The issues you talk about sound minor if you look at it as an individual case. But being in a class is very different to being at home with one or two children. If you ignore one child doing these stuff, then do you then ignore the other 29 if they start too? And then you could have half the class being these minor things, and then it is a nightmare.

It is not beyond the capabilities of the average, non SEN, Y1 child to sit and follow school rules IME.

It seems unfair to blame the teacher though. f this is a school policy then the teacher has to follow the rles. They will be directed to from senior management. Teachers don;t usually create themselves a whole load of work for nothing after all.

[StuffedFullOfNothing]

Bright and bored, my big white arse.

[Shaz10]

Who the hell has time to write all these letters?

[Cadelaide]

I think we lose sight of how little they are, 5/6 is no age at all.

The letters are bonkers, what a waste of time.

[Droosie]

I think this is ovrkill actually. If there is a real issue here then the school need to be contacting the parents for an appointment to discuss it. Sending a child home with random letters for this or that is counter- productive and the child will just associate school with negativity.

My DS has real issues with noise (sensory probs) and will hiot yhe floor with his hands over his ears if a noise "hurts" his ears, or call out, or fidget. I would be seriously pissed off if the school were just sending home letters but doing bugger all else to address it. Thankfully my DS's school is NOT like this and communicate with parents which it sounds as though the OP's school has a problem with.

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

All I used to hear on an almost daily basis was that "ds had been annoying the children". I spent months telling him off for annoying them, asking him why he did this etc, it made no difference at all. After yet another bad day I changed tactics and asked him what he was doing that annoyed them, he didn't know so I went through what he was doing at play time with him, it turned out that he wanted to play with the other children and was expressing this by running up to them and asking them every few minutes if he could play or was just joining in. It took 10 minutes for me to go through how he should do this with ds and the penny dropped, he didn't have this same problem again. I think that if his teacher had have said what he was doing to annoy them or had given him the same guidance that I had then it would have saved ds months of tellings off. Not all children pick up social skills as well as other children and they are seen as 'naughty' because they don't follow the rules because they don't get them. My son is also very bright, he just couldn't pick these up. A lovely mumsnetter on here recommended a book and I have recommended it also to people on here who's children have problems at school as it's really helped us, it's called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship, it may be worth a shot.

[theweasel]

He has problems with self esteem and an ed- psych has been brought in to raise his esteem.We have lots of dialogue with the school. He has no probs, no issues at home or elsewhere, just a school thing. We support the school in their efforts but feel these letters are applying pressure and adding to low self esteem. He is disruptive at school so they suggested adhd test. The result was negative and he scored highly in intelligence test. Strategies already in place to stimulate him and praise him. But this good work is undone by the endless negative letters he gets when he fails to hit the mark. The letters do not alter his behaviour but make him feel insecure and unliked.Asked head to curtail letters but she says thay serve as a paper trail to present to governors etc.

[BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny]

A paper trail to present to governors?? Have you thought of looking for a school that meets his needs better?

[claig]

he sounds like a great little guy. It is very sad that he is in a school like that. They are not very understanding and their techniques will be counter-productive. He will grow to actively dislike the teacher and this will cause him to be even more disruptive. This is a vicious cycle. As BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny says, if his teacher could give him some guidance and show him some affection instead of constant admonishment, then his behaviour could be turned around. But the way they are going about it will only cause the problem to escalate.

[madwomanintheattic]

right. so his behaviour is serious enough to warrant being assessed for adhd, but they aren't going to do anything except send letters home?

make an appointment with the senco and class teacher, take the ed psych report, and ask for a behaviour plan to be drawn up. properly. with examples of how they are going to guide him, what they are going to do in each situation, etc. is he on school action or school action plus as he has been assessed?

acknowledging he has a problem with behaviour and then treating him the same way as the rest of the class isn't going to work. they need to continue the good work they started when they raised the problem with behaviour.

you do not want this to continue until juniors. by then he will just be the disruptive kid. it's up to you and the school to work together to sort out the cause of his behaviour issues, and how you are going to solve them. together.

[madwomanintheattic]

oops, just read they are half way there with the esteem strategies. did the ed psych come up with them? i'd ring the ed psych and ask for the strategies to be amended to reflect behaviour and the letters in particular. they can't be seen as two seperate entities.

[Hulababy]

Why do they need a paper trail for govenors?

I can understand why they might need a paper trail to present to have him referred for ADHD (as you have mentioned this) or to present a case to get him more formal help perhaps?