Blimey, I found out yesterday that DD is in a class of 38 pupils. I am shocked...

[Cadelaide]

...for two reasons;

1. That's a lot of children.
2. I didn't know before now.

38 pupils, is this usual? (She's Y4).

Not sure what I think about it really. Her teacher seems to be doing a fantastic job as far as I can tell.

[Sazisi]

That is a lot..

At DD1's school, there are usually 2 classes of around 24 in each year. This year, 4th year is lumped into one class of (I think) 38; this is because there's a minimum number of pupils which the school needs to get funding for a teacher and there aren't enough in 4th year to fund a teacher for another class.
This is Ireland, so the system may differ.

If your DDs education hasn't suffered, I wouldn't be worried personally.

[Cadelaide]

No, I'm not worried, but I am surprised and I just wonder how common this is?

[Cadelaide]

Actually, what I'm really doing is procrastinating. Time to be honest with myself, I really need to do some work now

[smee]

It's illegal to have more than 30 with only one teacher. Am sure I've read that on here before.

[ShrinkingViolet]

only in KS1 I think

[TheFirstLady]

Smee - it is not illegal in KS2, which the OP's child is in. The school may apply to the LA to vary their numbers, often because of statemented children in the class, who will bring their own support with them in the form of dedicated TAs. So there may be only one teacher but there will be other classroom helpers. 38 is A LOT though - although 32 or 33 not unusual IME.

[tabbycat7]

It's only illegal to have more than 30 children and only one teacher in KS1, sadly. 38 is ar to many and must be a bit of a nightmare for the teacher too, but I think I would rather my dses were taught in a big class by a good teacher, than in a small class by a not so good one. I did a teaching practice in a school where there were 37 in Y3. The teacher was very organised, there were teaching assitants and I don;t thnk the children's work suffered, but they did get less teacher time than they would have in a smaller class. Our local school has 38 in Y4 too, it depends on numbers and budgets and stuff.

[smee]

I didn't know that. Seems way too many though to me. Though maybe not if they have good TA support.

[OtterInaSkoda]

DS had 32 in his KS1 class for a couple of years, but they had lots of TAs. I guess your dd's class has, too. But 38?!? I'd never remember all their names

[Lemonmeringue]

What's it like for them physically? If the classroom was designed for 30 then it may be a tad cramped.

[ToccataAndFudge]

38 does sound like a lot

Otter - you know when I worked in Zimbabwe the smallest class size was usually around 38 - I'd often have classes with 40+ boys who when I first moved out there mostly looked the same to me (in my defence of that point while I had lived in multi-cultural areas, and been to a multicultural school - I'd never been faced with 20-30 (black) boys all the same age, with the same short hair and identical uniforms before). Trying to remember all their names, especially as I was "teaching" music which involved having lots of different classes was AWFUL.

[OtterInaSkoda]

Toccato - for the most part, little boys all look the same to me regardless of their ethnicity. And I have a boy of my own! I blame the uniforms. It's just as well I'm not a teacher, really

[ToccataAndFudge]

actually that's a good point Otter - I frequently mistake my own 3 DS's for each other PMSL.

I think (sorry OP this is a hi-jack) it was just that the distinguishing features of black people (and mixed race as well to some extent) are different from the ones that I (assume) most people use for "white" people - eye colour, hair colour, hair style even. They all had brown eyes and very short black hair.

Thankfully only took the first term to look at other facial features to identify them but it did throw me to start with.

[CardyMow]

My Y3 DS1 is in a class of 34 with just a teacher and one TA, whose time is split between the 4 SN dc's in the class. He was in the same class size last year, with no extra help, as the school had been given special dispensation as the school used to be a 2-form entry, and DS1's year only had the 34 in total, hence 1-form entry. The school was then made into a 3-form entry and the school didn't have enough classrooms to split them after Y1. I don't like it, and all I can say is that I'm glad DS1 is at the higher end of the spectrum educationally, so it doesn't affect him as badly as it does some of the other children in his class. If it was my DD or my DS2 (both SN) in a class this large, I'd be kicking up merry hell!! (tbh, I did when the school was 'allowed' by Ed Balls to breach the ICS regs for DS1 in Y2, but got nowhere....) And he'll be in a class of 34+ until he leaves, could increase as we are the only LEA run primary in our end of town, and if anyone moves into the area with a dc in Y3, they will be sent to our primary, he could end Y6 in a class of up to 40 apparently, but if they go over 38, then the school will put an extra TA in there.... .

[admission]

38 is a lot for one class but I would question whether the room is big enough for 38 year4s more than the capability of a good teacher to teach 38.

I would suspect that you are in a school that is not 1 form entry but has mixed age classes and the 38 is a consequence of having to mix two age groups together. It would be useful to ask what the other classes are across years 3 to 6 to get a comparison of whether it is just one class or all the classes in key stage 2. The assumption is that the school is obeying the infant class size regs and not having more than 30 in any infant class but then schools have been known to break the rules!

[llareggub]

Back in the 80s when I was in primary school I was in a class of 40. We attended a school that was designed to be open plan for the final two years of school, so my class shared space with the other.

It was bedlam. Imagine 70 odd children competing for space. How the teachers managed it I'll never know, but it may come as no surprise that we did a lot of self-marking of classwork.

I am rather hopeful that my DC will avoid a similar set-up and I have my eye on a school in the next village that has only 90 children in the school!

[RedbinDippers]

38 - luxury, 40 in mi klarse when i woz a knipper, nevor didd mee any arm.

[natsmum100]

I have taught a class of 38 while on supply. An extra teacher is employed so that they can be taught literacy and maths in smaller groups. I wonder if this happens at your DD's cass.

[fiveadaymum]

My DD1 (also Y4)is also in a class of 38 as the school couldn't fund two small classes. The teacher seems to do a fantastic job and she has a full time assistant - I wouldn't like to be her on parent's evening though!! However, we are assured that when they move into Y5 they will be split into 2 samll classes.

[Clary]

That is a lot.

At one stage last year DD (also yr 4) was in a class of 34 IIRC, more than half the year because of some anomalies (people insisting on a move to other class etc).

It was a lot in the room. It's more even now as a few people have left/new folk started but her class is still well over 30.

Other years in our school have the school's full PAN (intake) of 80 and are split into 3 classes so no class is bigger than 27-28 which is better, obv.

School has to do what it has to do tho - poss intake of 80 means that with 60 in the year it has to keep accepting pupils and bumping up classes. I guess if it hit 75 they would split it into 3??

Is there a reason like this in yr DD's school? Is this the only class? What is the school's intake?

[Dogandbone]

Not sure if this still holds, but in 1996, members of the NUT wouldn't/couldn't teach a class of more than 30, but that members of other unions could/would.