How do you know which primary is good in your area?

[toja555]

Hi, my DS is only 2 years old but I am getting worried about the school choice as it depends whether we need to move out of the area or not. I have checked Ofsted reports of surrounding schools. I live in South Norwood and within 1 mile there are 11 primary schools, consisting:

2 Ofsted outstanding schools (1 from them is RC)
5 Ofsted good schools (4 state and 1 RC)
Others - Ofsted satisfactory.

Admittedly I live closest to 1 state good (0.2m) and 1 state satisfactory (0.3m), and ideally would like to get into RC school which is 0.5 miles away, but this is not guaranteed obviously.
Other Ofsted good schools are 0.6m or 0.8m from my house.

Theoretically the closest state school (0.2m) would be a good choice, but then Ofsted report says that ?entitlement for free meals are above average?, ?pupils from minorities are above average?, ?turnover of pupils during year is high?.

I am not getting enough word of mouth to make a further decision.

How do you choose the primary school? By Ofsted report? Pass rates? (which seem to be adequate to Ofsted grade?)

What happens if you only get into satisfactory/non-desirable school? Is it always that bad?

Please share your thoughts with me. Thank you!

[titchy]

GO AND LOOK!!!!!

[IWillNotNeverEatATomato]

Visit the school and have a good chat to the head teacher, they are the ones who set the ideology for the whole school so if you like what they are doing you will probably like the school.

Talk to parents of children who are at the school and find out what they think of the way the Head runs the school, what do they think of the way the school handles problems and communicates problems and successes with the parents

I personally think that this is far more important than the ofsted report.

[paisleyleaf]

As titchy says.
I'd read the ofsteds and talked endlessly to other mums.
But when I went to actually visit the schools, all that I'd previously thought was turned on it's head and I knew which schools I liked the best.
A lot of it did come from how much I liked the head too.

[becstarlitsea]

What titchy, tomato and paisleyleaf said but I would add...

B-R-E-A-T-H-E! Don't panic - he's only 2! If you're panicking now you'll be a wreck by the time he's in Reception. IMO the most important factors in his future success at school are not whether the school is top-rated by Ofsted or by the gossip from the Mums in the playground or what the SATS scores are. IMO the most important things are:
Firstly - the support of his parents for his education eg checking his book bag every day and doing the work with him, talking to him about school in a positive way, working in partnership with his teachers and engaging with the school, whatever that school is.
Secondly - him feeling happy at a school which is a good 'fit' for him (which might not be the top-rated one). You'll know if a school feels right for him when you look around. But not yet - wait until more of his personality/aptitudes have come out. eg by the time we were looking around we knew that DS needed a school with lots of sport - we wouldn't have known that for sure when he was 2.

All of which is not to be found in league tables or in blind panic. Breathe. Have a cup of tea. Chill. (PS I panicked about my DS's school application. It was a waste of time... So I'm only trying to protect you from my own past mistakes!)

[Smithagain]

Find out what the deadline is for applying. Put it in your diary now, so you don't miss it.

Then relax!

Take a year off from worrying about it. Keep your ear to the ground, but don't believe everything you hear. Nearer the time, go and visit everything within walking distance. Unless they are all absolutely rubbish, choose one of them. Walking to school and having local friends counts for a lot. Substantially more than an Ofsted outstanding, IME.

PS: My children's school is "satisfactory" according to Ofsted. It has a wide ethnic mix for this area, high level of special needs, very high proportion of free school meals, quite a few children with language issues and/or english as a foreign language. Both my children are happy, learning fast and love going to school. DD1 has done her first set of SATs and appears to be well above average for her age. They are happier than a close friend who going to a high-achieving independent school in the same town. Go figure, as they say!

[toja555]

Thanks guys. Your advice is taken on board. Breathe and breathe The only reason I am ?panicking? in advance is because if we have to make a move, we have to think of it in advance. I would not want to find the last minute that all schools are awful and we need to move urgently.
True about Ofsted reports that might be confusing and misleading, but pass rates do matter, do they? Our RC outstanding school has all pass rates 90-98%, which seems amazing. Some schools have pass rates between 60-80%, and even if I do home work with my DS, it is doubtful that he will reach outstanding pass rates. Another thing, I am a full-time working mum and as much as I wish involve myself into school matters, I probably will be not very capable to do it.
I just wonder when is the best time to start visiting schools and won?t be headmaster surprised to see me with a 2-3 years old DS wandering around in this early preschool stage? Do headmasters see each and every parent that wants to get impression of the school?

[Smithagain]

The only pass rate that matters is whether your child reaches their potential. Try and keep that in mind.

My children's school has terrible SATs scores on paper. There are a lot of children who come from homes which don't prioritise education (the polite way of putting it!)

But my own child is excelling. Because she comes from a stable home and has good teachers who are able to handle both ends of the scale.

[toja555]

Smithagain, your example inspires but, to be honest, it sounds as an exemption from a rule. It is good that your child is bright and is has outstanding rates, but I guess in schools with outstanding pass rates everyone (including struck families) would perform well.
I agree though that happiness of a child matters very much.

May I ask how far from home should I look at? Bear I am in London. Catchment areas are usually 0.5-0.9 miles, but I know someone who attends school of over 1 mile

[becstarlitsea]

Don't think it is an exemption from a rule at all - fits with my experience. A lot of parents want to believe that if they get their kid into a school with outstanding pass rates then their kid will get outstanding results. But often the school with outstanding pass rates has an outstandingly committed bunch of parents - in London some private tutoring for private school entry is often going on at the choicer primaries as well... I'm in London too - Camden. Some of our schools have catchment areas of 0.1 !!! Craziness... Honestly, breathe.

[toja555]

becstarlitsea, it is craziness, I agree It is just that if I can do something for my child, I rather do than wait and hope for the best.

[Smithagain]

Have you read any of the press recently about supposedly "complacent" schools in affluent, middle class areas, where the parents just assume the school is good and things tick along in a pretty mediocre way? I don't know how much truth there is in it, but it did ring bells with me. There's a junior school in our area which is well sought-after and very popular, but has just been put into special measures because Ofsted found that they just "fine", but frankly not trying very hard (paraphrasing wildly obviously ) But all the parents still think it's "lovely".

It's hard to know what to think. But we went with our gut reaction when we visited. It seemed like a place where DD1 would feel happy - and the Head seemed to have her head screwed on right. People still think we're mad for going to the "rough" school, though. And some of them are commuting out of town to the special measures one described above. It's all very weird.


And now you're probably more confused than ever - sorry .

[paisleyleaf]

Smithagain, that rings true to me. It's what I meant about hearing from the other mums but changing my mind when I actually visited the schools.

[elvislives]

Actually I don't think you are panicking too early. My DD is 2.10 (you don't say whether your DS is just 2 or almost 3). I have checked and the admissions deadlines in our area (we are on the border of several counties and will be moving again this year) for Sept 2011 entry is this October. So it really isn't that far ahead.

If you go into your LEA website they will have information about admissions for this September. They should tell you what the admissions criteria is- usually looked after children are first, then siblings, then proximity to home, but it varies- and crucially what categories of children were admitted.

So if you like a school that's 1 mile away and you look it up and see that this year they only took siblings and children living up to 0.5 miles you know it isn't worth applying there.

We didn't look at league tables when we moved our DS3 but went to visit a number of schools. We found we could tell as we walked in whether or not we liked it. If you get it down to 2 or 3 you'll find other things that matter to you, like sports facilities or after school clubs. For us we discounted one school we loved because they started at 8.30 and finished at 2.45 and we just couldn't fit that school run into our existing schedules.

HTH

[carocaro]

Talk to Mums at the swings, cafe etc, they will be fine with you asking questions.

Do any of them have apre-school that your DS could start at soon?

[smee]

Visiting really is key - when you go round soak up the atmosphere, see if the kids seem calm and happy. Try and get a sense of how the staff relate to them, so are the teachers relaxed and in control of happy kids, or does it seem a bit strict or too chaotic even. Look at the classroom walls/ corridors; so are they creative and full of imagination or a bit dull and not very thought out. Also on Ofsted reports don't just look at performance, look at pastoral care and what they say about the school in general. Like Smithagain our school doesn't score highly in terms of SATs due to catchment, but it's lovely inclusive school with imaginative teachers and the kids thrive and feel safe. The school we're a bit closer to has far better results but felt v.old fashioned when we went round and not v.inspiring.