oxford reading tree: kipper books without words

[witchwithallthetrimmings]

what's the point?
My DS has had a few of these and is very bored by them

[Kathyis12feethighandbites]

Yeah, my dd too.
She is so bored that she attempts to form a coherent narrative whilst reading them backwards.
I think the point is for children who don't regularly have stories read to them, to get them in the habit of enjoying stories before having to start the work of actually reading. But we have just found them a pain. Much happier now there is actual reading to do.

[witchwithallthetrimmings]

but think my ds will be sent home with them until he does something to prove that he can move on but really don't know what -any clues Kathy (he can make up a story without pictures, he can tell his baby sister a story out of her cloth picture books and can "read" a reference book (this was where they found the fossils etc. )

[Kathyis12feethighandbites]

I think in our school they move them all on at once. There is only a limited number of the ones without words anyway - 5 or 6 I think - maybe he just needs to get through them all?
I feel your pain though. Dd would like to be moving faster too.

[gegs73]

DS1 (now in year 1) had these in Reception until Christmas last year which really annoyed me at the time. I had been reading books to him and he'd been following pictures since he was a baby. He eventually got some with words when I spoke to the teacher and from then on he has moved really quickly through the levels and is doing well.

If it annoys you and he knows some letter sounds etc I would talk to the teacher and see if it is a general policy in Reception or some other reason. I am definately not going to hold on so long before I say anything when DS2 starts school if I feel he is ready for words.

[Acinonyx]

DD is reading words and still gets them. I put a plea in her report book last time begging not to have anymore.

[sherby]

The point of them is to make your child feel comfortable talking and sharing ideas, stories with his teacher, whom he presumably hasn't spent much time conversing with previously.

If your children are that bored by them, why don't you just read through them and then read another book together that they do enjoy?

[thegrammerpolicesic]

But that idea that they are to encourage your child to share ideas with the teacher and open up doesn't explain why they'd be sent home to share with parents, whom a child has a relationship with and presumably does open up to already.

They are, I believe, designed to encourage children to look at the pictures in books to get clues when they start reading proper books with words and to enhance their ability to tell a story.

[Acinonyx]

My understanding is as grammer says. And we have a ton of books at home - but not many of the type you use in a learning-to-read reading scheme. I'd like to just have another one of those instead of one with words and one without.

[Kathyis12feethighandbites]

Oh dear, just checked and it turns out there are 12

[Acinonyx]

Maybe we should write some words in to liven them up

[ICANDOTHAT]

They are used as prompts when learning about stories. A beginning, a middle and an end. Also the idea that there are characters and settings. When they learn to read, children will often use the pictures to support the reading .. ie: if stuck on a word, they'll look at the context of a picture to help them guess the word

[IdrisTheDragon]

I remember DS having them - I think we had to do them all (although can't remember how many there were).

DD will be starting in the nursery/reception class after Christmas and so it won't be all too long until she has them too. Am hoping I can maintain my enthusiasm a second time

[dilemma456]

Message withdrawn

[sherby]

I really can't see how you can be so bored with them, there are about 6 pages in each one

Once upon a time x lost her teddy, the shopkeeper put in in the window and x was sad because she couldn't find it, next time they walked past the shop she saw it in the window and was happy she found her teddy again.

That takes what 4 minutes?

It is not about reading words, the teacher wants to get a measure of the childs imagination, creativity, idea of how to hold and read a book, talk about page numbers, following the title, counting words in the title, story structure.

I really can't see what the rush is. Or how your children are already bored by them

[Kathyis12feethighandbites]

But Sherby, it wouldn't take 12 books to 'get a measure' of those things, would it? Unless the teacher is v v slow, which ours don't seem to be.

[beezmum]

Its easier to put up with something you can see the point of1 DD's teacher told another mum that her daughter was on the books so that she could understand how to hold books!
I've been in and done reading help in the reception class and there are a few children in that position but the majority have been steeped in the printed word by conscientious parents and just want to get on and practice what they've been learning. Also my understanding is that all the recent research pushing synthetic phonics does not advise using the pictures as cues anyway.

[MollieO]

Ds had these in reception. Completely put him off reading. I ended up buying books recommended by other MNetters to get him interested again.

I think they are good for children who have no concept of how a book actually works or have difficulty in interpreting the pictures to suggest what the story could be.

[ronshar]

DD's school use ORT but I have never seen the books without words.
DD2 is in reception and has started to bring home her first books. I love the way that before half term she wasnt interested and now she is reading. Bloody marvelous.

In my experience with DD1, who is now in year 5, they do emphasise(sp) the ability to predict where a story is going and the importance of expanding the imagination.

[Ixia]

We have Ginn 360 (bloody digger) - bleurgh. What annoys me is DD is conscientious and feels she has to keep looking at them, there isn't even that much to discuss on each page. It's not as if they are like the Usbourne books with loads going on. We now rarely read her own fun books

[madamearcati]

We have Rigby books which have a few words on each page.This my 4th Dc and with the others they started on 'red' bookband but my youngest who can read quite a bit has started right at the beginning with pink stars/rockets and now red stars and rockets.Although there have been words in all the books she has brought home.

[ihearttc]

My DS is on the red Rigby ones as well and is really enjoying them. We only had 1 book home with no words in it and then had afew pink ones and he is now reading the Red ones which are actually quite good. Is your DD enjoying them as well? Haven't come across any others that are reading them as most schools seem to do ORT.

[thegrammerpolicesic]

I think the problem here is that most children might benefit from doing these word less books maybe once or twice and not 10 or 12 times. Many are ready for more and it all seems a bit 'let's get them all over the lowest hurdle'.

The fact is most Mnetters children will know perfectly well how to hold a book, that you read the left page first then the right etc.

So maybe it's the lack of responding to where individual children are at which gets on people's goats?

(Luckily ds hasn't had to have these but I have still focused on the pictures in his books with words to ensure he does know about that).

[MollieO]

I think it is hard for teachers always to get it right. Ds's reading level is the same now in year 1 as it was at the beginning of reception. He makes progress (at least it seems to me) and rather than stepping up to the next level he is stepped down. We are told it is to boost his confidence. Instead of this encouraging him he stops trying when the books become very very easy. It is a downward spiral as that then leads to even easier books. I am fully expecting to be almost be back on the no words books soon! He was at the beginning of ORT stage 3 at the end of reception but he is now on stage 1+.

We've had a mix of ORT and Ginn. The Ginn ones we had didn't have a discernible story - 'Roger ran', 'Jennifer ran' - and led to ds giving up reading altogether for a term. Unfortunately we are heading the same way again.

[Kathyis12feethighandbites]

OMG do you think dd's 'reading it backwards to make it more interesting' strategy is likely to be misinterpreted by the teachers as 'she doesn't know which way to read a book?'

Mollie, I'm actually really really horrified by your ds being moved backwards. The same was done to me in maths at primary school (because I'd done all the books and they didn't know what to do with me.... 'I know, let's make her go back to the beginning!') and I have been assured by many teachers this would never happen these days!

I've nothing against wordless books per se - I think they're a great idea - but you are spot on, Grammerpolicesic.

[MollieO]

I don't think he is being moved backwards because he has done everything. I think it is very much a case of the teacher not knowing what makes him tick and therefore not knowing how to get the best out of him. She has already told me that she has never had a pupil like ds and she is a very experienced teacher. To be fair he isn't the most straightforward of personalities but he is only 5 so isn't that inscrutable.

I am looking forward to a lively parents' evening tonight .