Unauthorised leave in year 6 week before Christmas-is this really bad? Teachers' viewpoints particularly appreciated

[cluttered]

I will probably get slated for this but we are considering taking our two DS out of school for a week to go to NZ, where I am from and where all my family live, for Christmas either this year or, preferably from the financial point of view, next year. I haven't been back for 5 years since I was on maternity leave with Ds2 and haven't seen anyone in my family since then, except my Mum who has managed to make it over here.

We want to go for 3 weeks because of two reasons, firstly I cannot do a 24 hour flight without a break on my own anymore let alone with the kids so just going for the Xmas holidays and breaking the trip for a stopover in a hotel each way to catch up on sleep would mean we only have 10 days actually there. Secondly, we would like to go about 10-12 December before prices jump to absolute peak- friends tried to book for this past Xmas in June and were quoted £7000 for family of 4, we can't afford this!

My DS's school will not allow any leave in term time, I know this as we asked to add time onto an Easter break to spend more time in Caribbean with DP's Dad who was poorly and was told it would have to be unauthorised. The school says it is LEA policy however this isn't quite true as adjacent schools allow 2 weeks as did this school until the arrival of a new headteacher!

So, we are fairly sure we will do this as I have a lot of relatives in NZ who I would like my children to get to know and it may be more difficult to go once DS1 is at secondary. We would prefer to go for Xmas 2010 BUT DS1 will be Year 6. Will the school absolutely hate us if he misses the last week before Xmas being as it would be SATs year, or will they cover any work done again? This year (Year 4) he did seem to be doing lots of work up to about 2 days before term ended. I know this seems premature but if we go for Xmas this year we will be looking to book soon (11 months ahead) to get the cheapest flights possible.

Sorry for long post, will be grateful for advice especially from teachers or parents of Year 6 children.

[myredcardigan]

Are you talking about the last week of the autumn term? From a practical POV, your DS will not miss any school work. He may miss party/school production/panto and general wind down but I've never taught in a school who continue normal structured lessons during that last week. They may do 'work' but it will be either a) bits and pieces of revision or b) odd 'fillers' to keep the general Christmas week euphoria to a minimum.

There is so much going on (forgot to mention carol concerts and special assemblies) and the kids are all verging on manic that there is no way any Y6 teacher would attempt any SATs practice!

However, whether it is LEA policy or not, it is clearly school policy. If I were you, I'd write a letter to the HT now, stating your intention to go on this rare family holiday next Christmas. Expain the family importance and that you need 3wks to make the travel feasible. Copy the letter to the governors. Say that you want to be completely upfront about this and hope that given the distance, rarity, family connections and notice will allow them to give authorisation on this occasion. In the politest way possible add that a desire for you children to meet/see their grandparents means you will be taking them regardless.

No school wants unauthorised absences on their books. Hopefully they will make an exception. In the 2yrs until then,you need to aim for an almost perfect attendance record. If they have a v.good att record at the moment,mention that in the letter.

Good luck!

[sayithowitis]

In our school the children worked right up to the day before we broke up this Christmas. yes, there were a few breaks for a trip to the local pantomime and the church service, but we do not do a christmas production at our school, purely because it use to take away so much teaching time for rehearsals etc. Our school also does not authorise any leave for children in year 6 and this is common in our authority. Any request for holiday has to go to a panel of governors, not the headteacher. If the school your child attends is like ours, and continues working up to the last minute, it is unlikely that they will cover the work again before SATs, apart from a brief revision. In our authority it is policy that when parents choose to take children out of school for holidays etc, the school will not set any work for the children to take away with them either. Personally, in your circumstances I would write as suggested by MRC and hope that they will authorise it, but be prepared that they may not.

[BonsoirAnna]

I would make an appointment to see the head of your DSs' school now (ie months ahead of time) and explain the circumstances and hope he/she is understanding about the time and financial implications for the whole family. Be extremely clear and extremely polite and hope for the best.

My personal view is that knowing one's family, background, culture and history is an essential part of growing up and any head who, in the circumstances you describe, refused to authorise this absence, ought not to be head of a school.

[cluttered]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am kind of thinking that maybe we should just go at the end of this year as I don't think we will get an answer from the school about whether they will be doing SATS work before Christmas, just the same line about all absence affecting learning. We were even told previously nursery absence would not be authorised and that's not actually compulsory! I would really like the school to say that although they would prefer people not to take leave there are certain times of year which can be missed with minimal impact on learning but I think this is unlikely.

We previously unsuccessfully tried presenting a good case for having an extra week in the Caribbean for Easter 2008. Discussed it early with head teacher, said it was children's paternal grandfather who was ill and wanted them to spend lots of time together. At that stage Ds1 was Year 3 so not SATs and DS2 only nursery. DS1 had not had any time off ill for 2 terms. We were told absolutely no possibility of it being authorised because we wanted to add a week onto school holiday HOWEVER we could have 2 weeks in the middle of termtime authorised for compassionate reasons! So it's not so much the disruption to learning as encouraging others to take an extra week holiday! In the event we went and the school was closed for one day for a strike so they only missed a total of 4 days, not much absence over a year but maybe we have blotted our copybook already for requesting future time off!

The main reason for going Xmas 2010 is that we have booked and paid deposit for a villa holiday in Italy this summer which is now looking reckless in view of the strong euro. We weren't thinking of going to NZ this year at that point as was expecting my Mum to come for a visit. We would probably lose lots if we cancelled now and it seems mad to have 2 expensive holidays in a short space of time in the current financial climate. Then again, 2 years ago we agreed some equity release with our mortgage provider on a drawdown basis, we still have a year left and £15 000 we could draw down, maybe we should take the money while it's still on offer! When we moved to a new tracker in October we still apparently had enough equity to get the best deals even with falling house prices and this extra £15 K included in our borrowing total. I am probably crazy to even consider doing this though!

[cornsilk]

I think you should go. Even if they are actually working in that week the teacher is bound to have gone down a gear or three.

[tilbatilba]

Follow your heart....your sons will always remember being with your family in NZ and that time will remain so precious to you all forever. What is the worst thing that can happen? Could you loose your place at the school for them the next term?? The system sounds very tough in the UK.

I totally agree with BonsoirAnna.

What about booking now and then having a family emergency next dec?

[aGalChangedHerName]

I haven't and wouldn't take mine out of school for a family holiday but i don't have family in NZ so i don't have to.

If i had to travel all that way then i would. Seeing family is as important as school IMO. It's not like you have made a habit of it and the dc's attendance is obviously generally very good.

[stillenacht]

i agree with aGal - I am a secondary teacher - the fact is its a once in a lifetime trip to NZ to see relatives not an annual event.

[throckenholt]

I haven't read the other answers yet - but I would do it. For two reasons - the learning experience of a trip to NZ would far outweigh anything they would miss in 1 week of school. Secondly that week in particular I don't think they do much academic work - it is much more school plays, christmas meals and parties etc - everyone is demob happy and exhausted from a long term.

Of all the weeks to miss that one is probably the least important academically.

[hellywobs]

As schools like closing early on the last day of term I don't see any problem with taking the last day off but missing the rest means missing a lot of fun. But presumably they will have even more fun in NZ! You won't lose your place and having unauthorised absence is a problem for the school, not you. I would think twice about doing it in year 6 if SATS for 11 year olds are not abolished though, which probably means doing it this year.

And in terms of culture, no head would dare to say no to a family wanting to spend 3 or 4 weeks in India or Pakistan, so New Zealand should be no different.

Alternatively, how much was the deposit for Italy? Could you forgo that and go in August? Yes I know it's winter but it would be a solution!

[Littlefish]

As a teacher and former deputy head I would definitely encourage you to do it!

The final week before Christmas is one of the "best" weeks to miss as it will have the least impact educationally.

Links with family are vitally important and should be supported by any school when you're talking about occasional trips. Obviously if it was an annual occurence, they might take a stricter view on it.

What is your dc's attendance normally?

[risingstar]

My dds school had a similar message. However, as I found out, her Head did have a heart. I had always promised that we would go to Florida when DD2 finished Lower School. However, I fell pregnant and had to cancel the trip as couldn't get insurance. So I wrote to the Head of DD1S school and said that i could not face telling the kids that they were going to have a baby sibling, oh and Disney is cancelled. He authorised 2 full weeks during the summer term as it was exceptional circumstances. I have also managed a long weekend due to parents-in-law Diamond Wedding anniversary ( such a celebration might be worth throwing in for good luck). Head is much more sympathetic to those that ask FIRST. Apparently nothing more likely to get refused than a copy of plane tickets!!!

Good luck , sounds totally reasonable to me and at the end of the day, what are they going to do? some parents take their kids out for 2 weeks every year

Good luck, sounds totally reasonable to me.

[Katiestar]

i would write to the school explaining the situation and tell them that you have already booked the trip and it will mean your child missing a week of term.Be polite but don't ask permission ,present it as a fait accomplis.
at refusing nursery children holiday We had a situation in our school where a 4 yr old reception child wanted to go to Australia for 6 weeks.It was really unfair on the school having to record 4 weeks of unauthorised absence (which in a school of 60 kids is a lot percentage-wise) even though the boy was quite within his rights to go.

[HSMM]

Be polite to the school ... but go. The education your child will receive on a trip like this will be great.

[cluttered]

Thanks everyone for your advice! There seems to be a consensus that we should go!

Hellywobs, as far as cancelling our August holiday we would probably lose the £800 deposit on the villa plus we have booked Easyjet flights as well for about £700, I looked on their website and it wasn't clear if they offer refunds? This Christmas just gone the Juniors didn't do a perfomance/nativity, only the infants so only DS2 would miss out on that. Both had class parties but NZ would be more exciting I think!

Littlefish, both DS do normally have very good attendance although DS1 was a bit under the weather last term and had a total of 5 days off with flu and then a fortnight later a tummy bug.Last year in Year 3 I think he had 3 days sick in total and 4 days off in the Caribbean seeing DP's Dad. DS2 has had no time off in his first term of reception, while in nursery he had maybe 2 days off.

The thing about going at Xmas is that my boys haven't ever had a proper big family Christmas. Family-wise DP has a brother and sister here in the UK but they don't have kids and usually don't bother to come to ours for the day so it's just us 4. If we go at Christmas we will be able to see everyone on both sides of the family as they will be together. Normally they are scattered throughout NZ and although NZ is a similar size to the UK, fewer motorways and a lack of trains means that it takes longer than you'd think to get around!

My parents are separated and my Mum spends the day with her brother and his family which is my uncle and aunt, my 3 cousins and their partners and altogether 12 grandchildren. My Mum on the other hand goes along with one child, my sister. My sister has a DP who is a bit older than her and divorced with 4 kids from that relationship so usually spends a lot of the day with them. My sister doesn't want kids and her DP had a vasectomy so no prospect of my Mum having grandkids in NZ and I can see she feels a bit sad that she and her brother each had 3 kids and he has all his family and 12 grandchildren near him, she has 4 grandchildren, my 2 DS in the UK and my other sister's DD and DS in Australia. My Mum and that sister have a rocky relationship so she doesn't come back to NZ much.

As I said I thought my Mum would come to visit this year but she has said not until May 2010 so won't have seen the boys for a couple of years. I really started to seriously consider it when she sounded so excited at the idea of us coming out for Christmas. Another good reason is that I have yet to meet my niece and nephew in Australia who are 4 and 2 respectively and are the only cousins my sons seem likely to have so it would be lovely to drop by Australia if my sister can't be persuaded to come to NZ. You can tell I've nearly convinced myself that we have to go, can't you!

[Katiestar]

It will be something they will remember foir the rest of their lives,which I am sure couldn't be said for aweek of school !

[BestLaidPlans]

Go, go, go! As a particularly hard hearted witch of a middle school teacher I did make all my classes work right up to the last in-school day before Christmas, but I'm not sure how much learning was actually done! If you, or rather DS, are feeling particularly motivated buy some sample SATs paper packs or revision books and work through a few on the plane. He could even try a piece of extended writing about his time there. Regardless, to reiterate what others have said the experiences of this trip are likely to far outweigh the (in my opinion) very minimal disruption to learning.

[clam]

No contest, as far as I can see. (teacher speaking, here). GO, GO, GO. I would say you have extenuating family circumstances and, believe me, many families take their kids out of school at worse times, for longer periods, with much less reason. If the school don't like it, tough. What can they do? Expel you? So, write a clear, polite letter explaining your intentions and reasons. Acknowledge your awareness of the County's policy on term-time absence and pledge, if you must, that it won't happen again. Then go. Even if they write a snotty note back, there's sod-all they can do about it.
I teach Year 6 and, if we are doing much course work during the last week of the Christmas term (counter-productive in my view - they're just not in the mood), it certainly wouldn't be vital to SATs. Plenty of time for that in the Spring.

[thirtysomething]

My DS is in year 6 at the moment at a local state primary up North. Our school allows up to 2 weeks' hol in term time a year but in year 6 has been known to refuse at certain key points in the year. We took DS out for most of the week before Christmas hols started this year, to go on holiday. School authorised it (but I know they wouldn't have authorised this week off instead as they've started their SATs work...)DS missed no work at all - all they did was watch DVDs and play games that week and school were fine about it. I think he gained far more from being onna family holiday as we rarely all get to spend uninterrupted time together at home and he saw loads of educational things etc etc