There seems to be a resource based 'ceiling' for more able pupils at our school. Don't remember this being the case in my days.

[Bubble99]

When I was at primary school back in the seventies there were often younger children brought into older classes for some subjects. I'm not aware of this happening at our school, but I have read here of children mixed in Reception/Year One classes, often at small village schools.

I imagine that the village/rural cases are down to not having enough children to fill each class, so one teacher is provided to cover both.

Some threads here recently have illustrated that parents are being discouraged from providing books at home above the level of books than their child is given in Reception.

I totally understand that a teacher needs to make sure that the child's comprehension of what they are reading matches their ability to read. But I wonder if it is more to do with having nowhere to put these more able readers - as they did in the 70s.

Extension groups aren't an ongoing thing at our school. More able children in all areas are given extra projects - inter-school reading/review competitions, inter-school sports etc. But once that has finished they are back to being taught for nearly every subject with a large class of mixed ability.

Our DS2 is less able with literacy and the same rules seem to apply. Although he gets some extra group work it is sporadic and he is then back into a class with children working at a faster pace.

How on earth are teachers able to teach these mixed classes?

How are more/less able pupils catered for in your school?

[Hulababy]

I went to school in the 1970s and there was no mixing of classes at all, and how far individual childre were stretched was very much dependent on the teacher they had.

Mixed ability teaching is most common in primaries these days, and quite common at secondary other than for Maths and English. Teachers learn to differentiate work, but I agree it isn't easy.

In DD's school they have moved children depending on ability. For example last year there was a girl in the final year (equiv to Y6) who was an academic year younger than that. She moved up to high school a year early too, and I guess will alwyas be one year ahead. There is also a irl in DD's school who joined her school this academic year. She was old enough for a Y1 class, but as se had't been to school before (she'd stayed at her Montessori nursery instead) she wa splaced in the Reception class. She moved up to Y1 after Christmas, a term later, having caught up, with some additional support, with some of the children in DD's class. Also there is a girl in the school who is still n the year below she should be, and that is likely to remain the same throughout her schoolin. She came to the school unable to speak English so school felt it better for her to stay down a year with extra support. This has worked well too.

[ecoworrier]

At our school all children from Yr1 onwards are set for maths and literacy. So there are two classes in each year group - each morning the more able children from each class are in one set for maths, same thing for literacy. Within each set there will then be 4-5 tables again grouped according to ability. Children who show even greater ability are always given extension tasks, not necessarily to push them even further ahead, but to give them a different challenge and perhaps a different way of approaching something.

Where some children are really still way ahead of everyone despite the above strategy, a small group of children are sometimes taken out of the class to work with a higher-level TA. This happened to my son in Yr5 when about 5 of his year spent one or two maths lessons a week with a really well qualified TA doing things at a level and depth and breadth that they didn't do in class. The TA loved it as well!

I think the same applies for the less able. They will work with similar-ability children in class and sometimes do small group work or even 1-1 work outside the class. Seems to work well but only because the teachers spend a lot of time planning and differentiating for these groups.

[Bubble99]

Hula. Am I right in thinking that your DD is not at a state school, though.

I imagine the private sector has a lot more flexibility?

Certainly at our school, a child who had stayed at nursery for an extra year would have to go into year one. Regardless of ability.

[Lasvegas]

I went to a state school mid 1970's. Myself and 4 other children were moved up a class after completing reception and stayed as 5 young ones in a class of older kids. We didn't go to secondary school year early though.

[Hulababy]

Yes Bubble99 - it's a private prep.

Shame state can't be more flexible really though

[1dilemma]

Agree Bubble I was always moved up for reading at least 1 year if not 2 at primary! Can't get ds to tell me consistantly which is the clever table though!

[choosyfloosy]

I was moved up a year aged 6 i think in the 70s, against my parents' wishes. when I was 8 they decided I wasn't that bright after all and wanted me to repeat a year. My parents moved me to another school to avoid this. so i don't think it's a great idea in general, the ideal is to teach mixed ability IMO, but I don't at all underestimate how hard that must be, I haven't a clue how teachers do it.

[seeker]

At my ds's pretty average stare school they are on 3 or 4 different tables with differentiated work from year 1. They are not overtly "top" and "bottom" tables, but that's what they are. I thought this was standard practice?

I'm shocked that anyone has been told what books they should give their child at home - I must have missed that thread. I hope whoever it was complained to the head!

[idlingabout]

I hope this thread isn't starting to give the impression that state primaries were so brilliant back in the 70's. I started school in 1965 and could read before I got there; it was a small village school and they promptly moved me up a year. We moved a couple of years later (same LEA) and the primary refused to let me stay a year ahead and insisted I went into the class for my age. Of course, I was streets ahead on reading and the teacher's reaction was to make me sit by the 'reading trolley' for hours on end ( wonderful for alienating me from my peers).Her attitude to me was that I 'was a nuisance' for being brighter than the others.
2008 - The state primary my dd splits the kids into groups for literacy and maths according to ability. It seems to work very well. The teachers are very good at identifying the children's strengths.I think this school is way better than the primaries I experienced.

[AngharadGoldenhand]

My dd reached level 4 in reading towards the end of Y3 (last year).

Two days ago she was told by a TA that they didn't have any school reading books at the right level for her.

[seeker]

Anhgarad - I would question this. Is it possible that your dd misunderstood? I'm not sure what level 4 means - what sort of thing is she reading?

[juuule]

That surely can't be right, Angharad.. I thought once they'd finished with the reading schemes they went onto free reading. So then they can go and choose their own book from the school library. My children have also been allowed to take in a book from home if they wanted to.

[weathershore]

When my charge was in year 3 the school decided that each child was going to be heard weekly in school. This lasted one week we were told that the books would be changed weekly which lasted for four weeks. However my charge has a real love of books and this was not enough. Not really worried as he read loads at home and we started to change books after school. In year 4 his teacher heard him read and was really surprised to find that he was still in the school reading scheme School now has literacy and maths teaching according to a childs abilty

[AngharadGoldenhand]

She's been a free reader since she started at the junior school. The level she's at now is the SATS level 4 (government target for the end of junior school}.

I guess it might mean that the school has more books that she could read but that the themes are not suitable for her age?

She does take in books from home and the library but it'd be nice if the school had some idea of what to do with readers like her.

[seeker]

I would go straight in this afternoon, and ask the teacher what the situation is. My ds is in year 2 and a free reader, and there are some suitable books in his class library, but he often gets books from the year three boxes, or from the school library (that sounds grand, but it's a small room with bookshelves and a beanbag!)

[juuule]

Angharad, What type of thing were you thinking you would like them to do for her?

[Kammy]

I think differentiating work can be a real struggle for some schools. In my ds school children with identified special needs get very good support, but there is very little for either children just struggling a bit or very bright kids. Ds is in Year 1 and has been assessed as Level 3, so is way ahead in maths and reading, but the teachers don't want to give him extension work as it will 'make him feel different' ! He knows he is different, and so do the other kids who joke about his ability to do division and square roots (in a very nice way I have to say).
I don't know what the answer is - I think it's important to have a good dialogue with the teacher, and if you have concerns then they need to be raised - perhaps in the way of asking if there are things you can do at home to support what goes on in school?

[constancereader]

Each lesson taught should be differentiated three ways. Experienced teachers get very good at this. Extension work should be provided for each activity too.

I have never heard of a teacher asking a parent to limit the level of the books they are sharing with their children at home! When did this happen? Entirely counter-productive imo.

[roisin]

I think it is very very hard to differentiate effectively in big classes - and in far too many schools it only happens well for special occasions (lesson observations and Ofsted)

In my school (secondary) there are certainly classes in yr7 (e.g. Humanities and MFL) where I know the Eng KS2 SATs results of the children varied from 2b to 5b - that's like having all 'average' children, but an age range of 7-14 in a single lesson.

Personally - although I see the advantages of mixed ability teaching - I don't think it is ideal for either end of the spectrum.

In a large secondary, with - say - 8-form entry and a 'standard distribution of ability' I prefer the model of one true top set and one true bottom set; then mix the middle.

[1dilemma]

oh agree idlingabout im my school if you were naughty you had to stand in the corner, which as it so happened was next to the bookshelves.
I spent most of the year in that corner quietly reading books

[LadyMuck]

Like Hula, the dcs school will move children up or down a year if this was felt to be best. So an Aug-born boy is now repeating reception, and we also have a boy repeating year 2. But it is private and I assume that the children will stay within the private sector.

More generally the children are grouped for reading, writing and maths, with the "bottom 6" in each subject getting some additional support during the week. The top few also get extension work within class. Very occasionally they will join in with something that is being done in the year above. But in general the school seems very good at bringing on all children at a similar pace.

[cory]

My kids (state school) have always been taught in classes with sets for maths and English at least, both in infants and in juniors. Have never heard of a school telling a parent what their child should/should not be reading at home, and I don't know a parent who would take a blind bit of notice! As for reading at school, my dd who is top of literacy in her year used to complain bitterly of only been allowed to borrow books from her library thought suitable for her age group- which she found far too babyish. Doesn't strike me as a major tragedy though- she can go to the city library and take out any book she wants.

[roisin]

In my boys' primary (state), like Ladymuck's private sector school children are grouped in ability tables for literacy, maths, and topic. There is genuine differentiation of work right across the ability range, but more importantly - like Ladymuck - there are withdrawal sessions.

The school is oversubscribed, so classes are full (30), and the "bottom 8-12 students" in each subject are given special sessions (two small groups with two staff) - for literacy and numeracy 3-5 times a week. i.e. most days the class teacher has a much smaller ability range to cater for in the classroom, and a considerably smaller class.

However, when they get to secondary this level of support is not available, and all students are in big classes, many of which are completely mixed ability.