would you consider keeping your DC at home on days of KS2 SATS?

(73 Posts)
Onlyconnect Mon 29-Feb-16 21:06:09

I am seriously considering it. My DD could come out of year 6 with " below expectations " in maths and English after trying her hardest for 7 years at primary school. She's about average in fact, just below in maths, but performs badly in tests. I'm so appalled by this, and by the content of th tests that I'm thinking about just keeping her off school on those days. Secondary would then use teacher assessment to set her. I wish everyone would do the same to disrupt the whole terrible thing.

KohINoorPencil Mon 29-Feb-16 21:09:54

She will just sit them the next day back.

Lucsy Mon 29-Feb-16 21:13:14

Yes
I am de-registering my child from school for 2 weeks and then re-registering her. School know.
If she doesn't sit the tests while she is 'on their books' it fucks up all their data
Also have considered keeping her off school for 2 weeks but risk a fine
School actually very supportive and said they won't make her sit the tests - they say they have a duty of care to my Dd to keep her safe and happy and that even though the school have spoken to DofE they still have not given school a definitive answer as to what the school legally have to do.

ChalkHearts Mon 29-Feb-16 21:13:20

She would have to be off the full 2 weeks. School would be incredibly cross. And you could be fined.

It's highly likely secondary sets on teacher assessment not SATs anyway, because they receive SAT results too late to do classes from them.

And so what if she gets below expectations? You need some perspective.....

ChalkHearts Mon 29-Feb-16 21:17:13

Up till now around 80% of children passed Y6 but only 50% passed GCSEs.

So something big is going wrong.

I know in a lot of cases a level 4 in SATs didn't mean you were where you needed to be for Y7.

bloom7 Mon 29-Feb-16 21:25:30

I don't know. I think I would probably just go with do your best but they're nothing to worry about.

I have heard that secondary schools don't really care about them anyway. Her new teachers would soon work out what she could actually do I bet.

LogicalThinking Mon 29-Feb-16 21:34:07

I REALLY wish I had taken my son out. The whole process caused him harm that stayed with him throughout his secondary school and badly affected his GCSE results. He ended up so distressed that he might get something wrong, that he couldn't function at all (he's very bright but autistic)
I wish I had taken him out, even if I had been fined.

SuburbanRhonda Mon 29-Feb-16 21:37:52

What does your DD want to do? Is she happy to have done all the preparation and lead-up and then not take them when all her friends will be? Is she happy to know her class-mates will be taking part in fun activities after SATs as a reward?

I agree with you that SATs ruin year 6 but you have to be realistic about what post-SATs year 6 is like, and how she will feel not having sat the tests.

SelfRaisingFlour Mon 29-Feb-16 22:15:51

If you take her out of the tests, it's like saying that you don't think she's capable of doing it so shouldn't even try. I'm not sure that would be great for a child's confidence.

Really your child will have exams and assessments in secondary schools so it might be a good idea to get used to them.

jomidmum Tue 01-Mar-16 06:25:15

We home educate, so mine haven't had to experience SATS. But I would have certainly with-held my daughter from it. Mental health and self-esteem are so much more important than a SATS result. Your child's well-being comes first and if you think it would be harmful to her, find a way out of it.

Onlyconnect Tue 01-Mar-16 07:00:46

Thank you for your responses. My concerns are not about children doing tests per se. It's twofold: the effect on my daughter whose attitude to school is changing before my eyes. I know what her abilities are and will be told again by her teacher at the end of this year. I don't think "so what" at all about telling an 11 year old who has always worked hard that she is below where she should be. I think that's potentially very damaging.
My second concern is about the content of the tests. I wonder if Nicky Morgan knows what an "adverbial phrase" is. I do see the argument that if all this is continued in secondary school then she'll need it. The trouble is, I'm not sure that it is, certainly not in this intense way. With maths the pace they are going at to cover the very difficult content means it's not being taught thoroughly and therefore will not provide the foundation to secondary maths that it should .

TeenAndTween Tue 01-Mar-16 10:51:28

No.

I also have a DD who is likely to be below expectations. My elder DD did SATs a few years back, and I have seen a number of y6 groups pass through.

- Most of the stress comes from the preparation, not the tests. So if you are avoiding anything they should be out of school from now.

- The test week is actually quite fun in a way. At our school they come in early for a nice breakfast, and get to do more fun stuff after the day's tests are out of the way.

- I think it would send a strong message you have no faith in their ability to even attempt the tests. Very disheartening when they have done the preparation. They would also have to explain themselves to the rest of the class.

- It is to some extent a 'right of passage' at the end of year 6. Having done the tests they feel more grown up and ready for secondary.

What I am doing is

- Focus at home on the important things that will be needed for secondary

- Stressing that although it is good to try your best, in the long run, no one will care about the results (DD2 has seen the importance we put on DD1's GCSEs, so we need to be clear SATs are not in the same league)

- I will also consider with-holding details of her results if needed, e.g. just say she did well and we are pleased. Depends on the format of the results which I'm still not sure about. Telling her she is 'pre key stage 2' or in the 20th percentile might not be the best for her.

SuburbanRhonda Tue 01-Mar-16 11:16:00

OP, as I asked before, what does your DD want to do?

And what did the school say when you shared your views about the pace of maths teaching and the relevance of adverbial clauses?

It's kind of irrelevant whether Nicky Morgan knows what an adverbial clause is. What's important is for you to praise your DD for whatever she achieves, emphasise to her that you value her effort more than the actual grades she achieves.

In short, build her up, show you believe in her and help her to gain the resilience and build the skills she will need for secondary and adult life.

Or home school her.

eyebrowse Tue 01-Mar-16 11:35:25

They will have been working towards SATS all year so it would be better to let her sit them - otherwise all the build up is wasted. Alternatively you could take her out of school now and home school her or move her to a private school for a term and a half. However she will miss the fun things they do after SATS eg school production, school trip, leaving school in a group etc

I think SATS are a waste of time because the entire year is concentrated on SATS when they could be learning much more interesting topics. Unfortunately secondary schools do use them in setting but there is movement in sets if they are found not to be accurate. Selective schools use their own tests or 11 plus rather than SATS so still there is no benefit to individual children from taking them its just for grading the school.

Neither of my dc likes tests and the things the SATS test for did not reflect their particular strengths. We spent a lot of time talking about things they were good at rather than what the SATS were testing and how life is much more than how one does at tests. I would take this approach with your dd rather than withdrawing. I think the school may be punished if your dd disappears which, unless you have had a very bad experience at the school might be unfair.

Dancergirl Tue 01-Mar-16 12:06:42

School would be incredibly cross

Not half as cross as they would be if you withdrew a child expected to get Level 6s.

What makes me really angry about SATS is schools seem to have complete disregard for the child, it's all about the school and their results, nothing else matters. At our primary school dc are encouraged to come in and do what they can if they are unwell, even with d+v. Horrible attitude.

OP, just do what's best for YOUR child.

Hassled Tue 01-Mar-16 12:14:10

There are other considerations to think about - firstly as well as actual attainment (whatever the standardised score is), they will be looking at progress. So if she started KS2 significantly below expectations, say, and now is only below expectations, then she's made progress. Which is a good thing. Secondly - SATs are a test of the school as well as of the child. If they are not teaching maths, say, adequately then the SATs will pick that up. By removing your child on the days then you're skewing the results which will highlight those things.

SuburbanRhonda Tue 01-Mar-16 12:16:10

OP, just do what's best for YOUR child.

But the OP hasn't said what her DD wants to do, so it's not at all clear what is "best for the child", only what's "best for the OP".

And if you read the other thread on exactly this issue, you will see it's not as simple as keeping them off for the SATs days. People need to find out the facts before advising the OP down an ill-advised path.

Dancergirl Tue 01-Mar-16 12:17:10

No she hasn't and that is why a conversation with her dd is needed.

Lucsy Tue 01-Mar-16 12:21:04

*
Not half as cross as they would be if you withdrew a child expected to get Level 6s.
*
My Dd gets FSM and is a very high performer. It will totally mess up their data if she gets a zero.

This isn't about testing or being against it. Teacher set tests are fine. Government set tests are not
I wish they would stop using the kids to get data about the schools and actually trust the teachers. And no, I'm not a teacher.
My level 6 kid fell to bits last year and came home on floods of tears because he though he had messed it up because he hadn't been taught something on one of the questions. Absolutely crazy. He was so upset. One year on he is in his high school flying and being tested very very regularly with no problems because it's tests the teachers have designed to make sure the kids understand what's been taught. It's not the same at all.

IHeartKingThistle Tue 01-Mar-16 12:28:39

No, because they'd probably make her do them at the start of Year 7 and I wouldn't want to add to the stress of starting secondary.

That said, I know where you're coming from and I hate that they use these tests to set expectations for the next 5 years.

catslife Tue 01-Mar-16 12:59:45

Secondary schools don't just use SATs data to work out likely outcomes for Y7 pupils, they often use other tests such as CATs as well.
The pass rate for GCSE quoted by chalkheats is debatable as the government have moved the goalposts (again).
See Table 2 in attached file www.bstubbs.co.uk/5a-c.htm.
In 2014 the no of boys obtaining 5A*-C including Maths and English was 48.2% for boys and 62% for girls.
But it would be higher than this if iGCSE results (often taken by independent schools) were taken into account.

PotteringAlong Tue 01-Mar-16 13:06:02

Secondary schools will not make her sit her sats at the start of year 7.

Bluebell66 Tue 01-Mar-16 13:06:34

She'll have CATS tests within weeks of starting secondary school anyway. Tests can't be avoided forever, and they are a useful tool in placing your child in the right set/class for his/her ability. IMO that can only be a good thing.

Lucsy Tue 01-Mar-16 14:52:12

Not all schools do cat testing at all. My ds school hasn't. And they aren't set until year 8

Also the current year 5 will have to retake their sats tests if they don't meet Expected levels, my current understanding is that the year 6 won't have to

prh47bridge Tue 01-Mar-16 17:51:54

have not given school a definitive answer as to what the school legally have to do

The school cannot legally de-register your child unless you notify them in writing that your child is being educated other than at school. If there are any pupils on the waiting list your place must be immediately offered to the pupil at the head of the list, in which case you won't get your child's place back. If the LA get wind of this they will likely class it as an unauthorised absence and fine you.

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