After school club throwing out son for two toilet accidents?!

[Echobelly]

My son is a young 4 (August) who started school in September. He is toilet trained in the day, but still wears pull ups at night. He was totally dry daytime all through his first half term but has had an issue renumbering to go to the loo in the last two weeks. As far as I can tell, it's just that he's very stimulated and excited at the moment and is just getting distracted. He loves school and hasn't demonstrated any anxieties or unhappiness about it.

School have been great about it, but he had two accidents at after school club (not run by the school) and after getting rather passive-aggressive calls/emails about it, manager emails today to say he shouldc leave after next week. That's plenty of time for a set of ft-working parents to arrange alternative wraparound care, and for two kids as I'm not having my daughter have separate arrangements.

Anyway, husband's going to look at Ts &Cs and the emails and consider a way forward because DS could be absolutely fine after this week and maybe they'll reconsider (he's already had far fewer incidents this week). I've explained to him that the problem is even if DS does sort himself out, I'm the one who will have to scrabble about looking for alternatives if he has another incident and she pulls the plug. So is it mostly a matter of looking for paperwork that says we have to have more notice? And should we look at Ofsted guidance - they had no wipes, gloves for staff or spare clothes (I have now provided spares and wipes myself) and if they have Reception kids I'd imagine they ought to be expected to have clean-up gear just in case, surely?

[Echobelly]

Nb, should add that son is very sweet, gentle, nicely behaved child (teacher and club assistants all say so too, not just me!), so it's not that he's a nightmare child and they're looking for an excuse to remove him!

[FannyFifer]

Can they not just send him to do a wee when he arrives.

[SirChenjin]

My DCs have all attended an afterschool club, the youngest currently attends. Toilet accidents are common place - they just have a spares for the children to use. Surely any childcare provider knows that young children have accidents and have a bag of space clothes available?

[southeastastra]

they don't sound very professional. they should have some sort of personal care policy. Children that age are always having 'accident's'. Are they an individually run company or a franchise?

[ReallyTired]

Is the after school club OFSTED registered? It is illegal for schools and nurseries to discriminate against children who have toilet accidents for whatever reason. They have to make reasonable adjustments. They should be helping him achieve continence not excluding him from their setting.

A very tired four year old having accidents should not come as a shock. Its up to those looking after him to make sure he uses the toilet when he arrives and ask him if he needs the toilet when he becomes too ingrossed in an activity.
A day nursery and after school club have similar ratios. They really can't whine about being overworked. The after school workers are just thick and lazy.

"and if they have Reception kids I'd imagine they ought to be expected to have clean-up gear just in case, surely?"

A year 6 child might need help cleaning up if they had a nose bleed or vomited. I cannot understand how you can have a childcare facility without clean up gear. If you are not prepared to occassionally clear up bodily fluids then you should not choose to work in childcare.

[Believeitornot]

Can you switch to a child minder? After school clubs can be tiring for reception kids - some schools don't do them for that reason.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

Sounds more than a one off, how many times a week is he doing it?

[Echobelly]

Last week it happened 2 or 3 times a day suddenly, mostly at school, twice at home, once at club. This week he had one or two accidents, one at club, on Monday and Thursday, so seems to be getting better, not worse.

He has not had anything like this since being out of nappies, it's totally out of the blue.

If this falls apart a nanny after school for both kids is the best option. I only need it until summer term - we are carrying out building work then we'll be getting in an au pair.

[mamadoc]

My DD had an accident at after school club in year 2!

Out of blue. Hadn't happened for years. No reason at all.

I was cross because at that age I felt she should know better but they could not have been kinder. They got her spare clothes from the main school to change.

They are very mean to exclude him for that and I would definitely protest it.

[longdiling]

So it's only happened twice? That's ridiculous. I'm a childminder and I can't imagine giving notice because one of my after school kids wet themselves twice. Twice a session every day after school for a month with the parents refusing to supply clean clothes maybe. Definitely look at Ofsted guidance, that doesn't sound like a great standard of care.

[Mandzi34]

Sounds unreasonable to me that he's being excluded. As a separate point as the accidents have come out of the blue, have you had him seen by the doctor? My DD wet herself in Year 1. The teacher thought it was strange and so advised me to see the doctor. It turns out she had a urine infection! She has some antibiotics and it never happened again.

[Penfold007]

OP if your four year old is in school all day followed by an after school club couldn't it be that they are exhausted? A childminder or after school Nanny might be better.

[Echobelly]

The club is run independently of the school by a parent. It's only been going just over a year so they're not very experienced.

It's not so much that DS is tired - he's actually coping very well. I remember his (male) cousin was always a wreck at the end of the day in Reception, but son is pretty full of beans, plus most of the accidents are in school.

DD had lovely childminder until August, but she stopped doing school pickups as it was getting too complicated, so if any alternative I'd rather an after school nanny take them home as it might be cheaper, and I do hate the shlep of having to drive to pick them up when we live 5 mins from the tube!

[SirChenjin]

Even if it's run by a parent I would imagine they would have to be OFSTED registered - definitely look at the guidance. Running a childcare facility isn't all about crafts and den building, dealing with spills and body fluids (in a respectful manner) are part and parcel of looking after children.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

I understand there has to be a level 3 on the premises, not in the club as such. As its only just started could there be a medical reason? Virus? Infection?

[Echobelly]

Also, yes, we've been to the fixture doctor and ruled out a UTI

[Echobelly]

No idea why my phone inserted 'fixture' there!

[SoupDragon]

Has he suddenly become scared of the toilet for some reason?

[Want2bSupermum]

Totally normal. Dd is 4 and it's happened a couple of times. It's no big deal. She has spare clothes there and I given them gallon sized zip lock bags to put the soiled clothes in. I would suggest you speak to them about setting up a routine for your son so your giving them a solution. I would however look to move him once you have made alternate arrangements as I don't think this sounds like a good fit. I'm like that though and become a mamma bear over things like this.

[user789653241]

My ds had few accidents when he started reception, despite he never had them before.
I thought he was adjusting to longer days, lots of excitement and new environment. I assumed it was quite normal, and it stopped quite soon.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

That does sound a lot of accidents though. I don't think they should exclude him, especially at such ridiculously short notice but I would investigate what's causing it. Is he scared to ask for the loo? Also is this just wet accident or poo accidents too?

[Want2bSupermum]

dragon 2 accidents is nothing. Dd has had up to 5 or 6 accidents in a week. Turned out she had strep. However 2 accidents in a week would not strike me as abnormal in any way. Also I've found the more you talk about accidents the more frequently they happen. With DD I watch her water intake and judge from there when she will need to go potty. If she doesn't ask I will ask her and bring her to the bathroom if we are out. The afterschool club should be able to manage this.

[SoupDragon]

However 2 accidents in a week would not strike me as abnormal in any way.

It isn't just 2 accidents in a week. Only 2 were at the after school club.

[Want2bSupermum]

soup 2 accidents in a week for my Dd in the hour of aftercare she does would not be abnormal and the provider would not speak to me about it in a negative way. It took 4 accidents for them to say something. They have made adjustments such as physically visiting the bathroom at least twice if they see her gulping down her water.

[HappyAsASandboy]

My DD is also in reception, but just turned 5 years.

She has been reliably dry in the day for several years, but since starting school she seems to have an accident or two most days. She says she doesn't know when it's coming, and I believe her. I don't think it's laziness or choosing to carry on with an activity rather than go; I genuinely think she is so engrossed that she doesn't hear her body's messages.

I have given her a make up bag with spares and a sandwich bag inside it for the dirties. She tends to tell a teacher and then go and get her supplies and sort herself out.

She has also had accidents at after school club - one when she was sitting on the TAs lap! They just get her out spares or theirs and send her to the loo to change. No big issue. The TA was also absolutely fine about being wee'd on; said it was a hazard of the job and not the worst she's had on her while a TA!

At least one child in the class (not DD, obviously) is still in pull ups and needs changing regularly. The TAs supervise and try to get the child to do the change, but help if needed.