# Talk

## Maths at the end of reception

(22 Posts)
SuiGeneris Wed 17-Jun-15 20:49:36

What sort of maths is an average child able to do by the end of reception? And a bright one?
Am asking because DS has language problems which I think might make him appear less bright than he is. I have the impression his maths is good, but don't know enough kids his age to "place" him.

So:
He can do addition and subtraction in his head up to 10 (reliably) and 20 (reliably 2/3 of the time, sometimes has to use fingers)

Can do halving and quartering of numbers below 20, as well as division by 10.

Has the concept of negative numbers and, for example, the other day worked out by himself that he needed 20 to go from -10 to +10

Can identify common 2/3D shapes.

Thanks

Dottymum2 Wed 17-Jun-15 21:05:35

Hi my dd also end of reception is doing similar, she can count reliably over 100 but hasn't a concept of negative numbers. She is bright, seems like he's doing fine to me! Hope that helps.

bobajob Wed 17-Jun-15 21:11:23

Expected is: Counting and ordering numbers to 20, adding and subtracting single digit numbers, halving, doubling and sharing. Compare objects and quantities by size, weight, capacity, distance. Use everyday language of time and money. Use positional language. Name and understand the properties of 2D and 3D shapes.

Bobkitten Wed 17-Jun-15 21:25:32

DS also at end of Reception and in the top group for maths. He is reliable with addition and subtraction in his head, has no trouble answering additions like 36 + 43 after a few seconds but would find 'crossing' over tens trickier, e.g. 39 + 43, but he could probably get it after a while. He also understands negative numbers. We don't really do much number stuff at home or on apps or anything, so I am not sure what he could potentially do with more practice. He is probably one of the top three in maths in a fairly high achieving class. However, children really do develop at different rates - a friend's son was slow to add sums like 50 + 20 at the end of Year 1, yet in Year 4 is top of his class.
Saying that, it sounds like your DS is quite far ahead in maths at this stage Has it not been recognised at school?

LL0015 Wed 17-Jun-15 21:46:12

DS is streaks ahead of DD but different curriculum.
Both are above average but not exceedingly bright.
He can read numbers to 1000
Double and halve to 20
Knows shapes and money, measuring and time concepts

poppy70 Wed 17-Jun-15 22:07:38

All of those are expected. Adding one and two digit numbers comes under expected. To be exceeding the advice is they need to problem solve by grouping in 2's, 5's and 10,s. And on another note about maths the assessment will not be made on what they can rhyme off but the level they understand. To recognise 2d and 3d shapes is the least of what they have to do I am afraid. They are 5. People need to remember that.

cheapandcheerful Wed 17-Jun-15 22:14:38

SuiGeneris Fri 26-Jun-15 22:59:34

Thank you all.

Poppy70: what is problem-solving by grouping in 2s, 5s and 10s? Would it be being able to figure out how many marbles I owe him if he gets a marble for every 10 correct sight words and he does 30 sight words, or is it more complicated than that?

He can also work out time tables- we did 2,3,5, 10 on his way to school yesterday. And he understands the concept that numbers are infinite, but that 's because it is an easy proof and he is interested in big numbers. Overall it sounds like he is ball-park average so no need to worry unduly about being under-valued at school.

poppy70 Sat 27-Jun-15 08:19:45

No... Nothing mental at all. I have literally had a moderator laugh when I mentioned a child knows their times tables... The opinions is it is no good because they have learnt it off and it is not evidence of understanding. I'd only reason!ly gives it to them if they could work out 2 step problems. How many groups of five in twenty-five. Can you take 4 away now. How many now. They do all of these with some kind of malleables.

shouldwestayorshouldwego Sat 27-Jun-15 08:31:20

Well average for MN! He sounds fairly capable and I would be wary of the school underestimating his abilities due to his language difficulties. Ds also is not always clear in his speech but that hasn't stopped the teachers raving about his strengths and achievements.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 27-Jun-15 09:22:05

Not that you get much choice in dealing with it but I'd be seriously questioning the judgement of any moderator who laughed at mentioning a child knowing their tables. It isn't enough on it's own but it is a core mathematical skill and is perfectly valid to use as part of building a picture to show what a child can do.

I think working out how to work out differences between a negative and a positive number shows an understanding of numbers and the number system, and probably using and applying that knowledge that goes a long way beyond the reception curriculum.

When you say he can recognise 2D and 3D shapes, what else can he do with them? Can he explain how he knows something is a triangle/circle by talking about properties i.e. it's a triangle because it has 3 straight sides. Can he explain how he knows something isn't a particular shape? Can he sort sets of shapes and explain how? Can he talk about 3D shapes that roll/slide/stack? Could he predict whether an unfamiliar shape will roll/slide/stack based on what he already knows?

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 27-Jun-15 09:39:22

Missed the bit about language issues. Forget the explaining bits but he should be able to demonstrate many of those skills. Are his issues mainly expressive or receptive too?

If he's average, he's at the very top of average, but I suspect he is actually not average for end of reception. If you are worried you could always ask the class teacher how she ensures that his langauge issues are catered for in maths teaching and how she ensures what she is assessing is his maths ability and not his language ability. She should be able to give you an answer and perhaps some examples.

poppy70 Sat 27-Jun-15 09:56:18

Rhyming off times tables is not enough. It should come after the children demonstrate practical understanding. She wasn't wrong and in away rhyming of times tables is just learning a rhyme. Understanding shpild come first.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 27-Jun-15 10:07:55

Which was why I said it wasn't enough on its own.

It should come whenever it comes. Doesn't matter if it's first or last as long as both skills develop.

WeekendDilemma Sat 27-Jun-15 10:18:53

my dd can't do half of that.

She can maybe add two numbers up to ten on her fingers. She knows shapes. That is it.

poppy70 Sat 27-Jun-15 10:22:18

Not enough on its own in reception to obtain am exceeding... which as receptipn teachers is really all we are concerned with.

CorBlimeyTrousers Sat 27-Jun-15 10:27:27

Poppy70 - they aren't all 5. As a Reception teacher I'd expect you to 'remember that'. And I'm sorry also to read that the only thing you care about is whether the children in your class are exceeding targets. I believe my son's teacher cares about him but perhaps we're lucky.

poppy70 Sat 27-Jun-15 10:38:01

Oh for goodness sake. All I meant is I cannot give a child exceeding because they rhyme of tables. And they are all 5... well nearly by now... was meant as I reminder that they are young children and the consideration should not be on what they canpdo. They are just starting out. Exceedings are and should be rare and you definitely do mot push them to their limits to get it. If they can so be it... it is their next step.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 27-Jun-15 12:00:38

Nobody suggested it was enough. But it is a relevant observation to be considered in making a judgement about a child's mathematical ability and whether they are best fit for expected or exceeding.

Feenie Sat 27-Jun-15 12:10:21

because they rhyme of tables

was meant as I reminder

What? Having trouble understanding your posts, poppy70.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Sat 27-Jun-15 13:03:05

I think she meant rhyme off tables. As in, can sing a times tables song or chant a table, Feenie.

poppy70 Sun 28-Jun-15 00:19:14

Typing on phones is not always accurate: A reminder.

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