"coal" in phonetically

[lolalotta]

My DD in reception brought a book home about trains. We came across the word "coal", is that one of those tricky words she just has to learn? The oa in the middle doesn't sound like the oa digraph in "boat" for instance?

[lolalotta]

Sorry about the typos! I'm on my phone and the predictive text thingy has gone wild!

[dementedpixie]

It does in my accent

[JasperDamerel]

I think that might be a regional accent thing. The oa is the same in both for me. Where are you from?

[tattychicken]

Ummmm..mine too!!! I say coal as "cole" and boat as "bote"....?

[JasperDamerel]

If it is tricky with your accent, ask the teacher, who will probably have had to deal with this all the time.

[FeckityFeck]

I don't know what accent you have, but boat and coal have the same oa sound when I say them. I just spent a few minutes repeating coa-t boa-t coa-l boa-l

[JasperDamerel]

I think (not a linguist) that the way you pronounce the 'l' at the end can have a sort of knock-on effect when saying the 'oa'. It can be sort of co-ul. In the that case the 'uh' is part of the 'l'.

[lolalotta]

Well, I'm not sure what my accent is, I grew up in Wales (but it's not a Welsh one) and now I live in the South. I am only just beginning to get to grips with Phonics so am no expert!

[JasperDamerel]

So "c-oa-ul".

[bobajob]

I've never thought about it before but it's slightly different in my accent too.

I'd just explain it as sometimes oa makes the sound in boat and coat and sometimes in makes the sound in coal and foal, just like oo sometimes makes the sound in zoo and sometimes makes the sound in book (if those differ in your accent too!).

[Singleandproud]

If it helps, when I teach my DD vowel digraphs we say "when two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking". Don't know if this will help with the accent though.

[lolalotta]

The middle sound rhymes with the beginning of old in my accent... Now I'm wondering if I pronounce it strangely! So c-ol-e...

[lolalotta]

The middle sound rhymes with the beginning of old in my accent... Now I'm wondering if I pronounce it strangely! So c-ol-e...

[fortunately]

They sound the same in my accent.

The phonic split is c-oa-l. It's not a tricky word, they just need to know the oa sound.

The "first vowel does the talking" is a good one to remember.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I think you probably pronounce it as strangely as I do.

Coal, old, cold etc are usually given as /oa/ in phonics schemes, but it isn't the way I say them.

If she's already familiar with 'oo' representing both the sound in book and the one in moon, I would do the same with the 'oa'. Say the word and try and isolate the sound you make, then just tell her that sometimes those two letters make that sound/represent that sound and to try and blend the word.

(And yes, I know that letters technically don't make sounds)

[QuiteQuietly]

When we had the words home on trucks (from the letters and sounds website) I found lots of them only "worked" in what I would term a northern accent. Particularly with "a" (eg bath, path etc.). It was confusing for a while, but DC soon got used to sounding out a word and then trying to fit it to an actual word we would say. And as the words get harder that happens anyway, regardless of your natural accent. C-oi-n-SIDE-ns or co-IN-si-dens.

[maizieD]

The "first vowel does the talking" is a good one to remember.

Not really.

It doesn't work at all in lots of cases: ou, oi, oy, ea (great), ie (field), oo (moon), ai (dairy)

At best it's a 'possibility'.

Better not to teach anything which could lead to confusion later.

[lolalotta]

This is how I say it: dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/coal

[lolalotta]

Blimey, I obviously need to get a life, I never thought I'd be googling the pronunciation of the word coal on a Saturday night!

[maizieD]

I wouldn't worry too much at all about how other people pronounce it. With phonics you teach to the accent. The 'oa' in coal represents whatever sound is 'said' for it in the child's accent.

Phonics is not elocution lessons!

[Ferguson]

Quite apart from the Phonics aspects, many children today don't know what 'coal' is, as they only have central heating!

A Yr2 girl I worked with once asked, "What's that black rock stuff?"

You may find this useful and entertaining:

An inexpensive and easy to use book, that can encourage children with reading, spelling and writing, and really help them to understand Phonics, is reviewed in the MN Book Reviews section. Just search ‘Phonics’.

[maizieD]

Are you not allowed to speak its name, Ferguson?

[lougle]

In my accent coal is said the same as bowl dole and troll. So I suppose the 'a' lengthens the 'l' sound.

[StayGoldPonyBoy]

For me coal rhymes with bowl, but for cold I say it 'coaled' rather than to rhyme with bold. It really is an accent thing!

[mrz]

As MaizieD says accent doesn't matter it's simply a case of saying in the word is the spelling for (whatever sound it us in the child's accent) is the spelling for the sound /ar/ if that's how the child says bath, grass, glass, pass ect.