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Didn't get village school - appealing, but need your advice wise MNers!

78 replies

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 08:35

DS didn't get allocated our first preference school, which is the village school. It's the first year ever that children living in the village weren't all offered a place. We've established that there are 4 children who live in the village who didn't get a place. We are the only one on our side of the village - all other children on our estate got in. The 4 children have been allocated places at 3 different schools. All 4 parents are appealing but we are also getting together to put pressure on the school (academy), diocese (it's a CofE school although faith isn't part of their oversubscription criteria), MPs etc to accept them all. I have two main questions, but any advice is gratefully received!
First, at appeal, has anyone actually won on the ground that the decision not to give the child a place was so perverse in light of the facts (or whatever the wording is!)? If so, what exactly was it that convinced the appeal panel? We are in a situation where there are 3 sets of twins in the year, which is a very unusual circumstance. If they let all 4 who didn't get a place in, it won't really be setting a precedent as it is hugely unlikely that there will be over 30 children next year, the village just isn't very big. Can we use that as an argument? What else can we use as an argument? I'm thinking isolation from village community, socially excluding him, emotionally damaging to him (he'll be heartbroken), DS already at preschool in village, allocated school has no before/after school provision, we can't walk there, we can't even park there to drop him off, etc.
Secondly, what info should I be asking the village school for? I've already asked what distance the last child to get in lives (0.28 miles), what distance we are (0.33 miles) where we are on the waiting list (4th), where they measure to on the child's home (front door/boundary of property etc - await a response as the school don't know) and whether those that have been offered places have to provide proof of address (await a response as the school don't know). What else can I request?

I don't know how likely it is that we will be successful at appeal, but I have to know that I've at least tried and have done the best I could for him.

Thanks if you've read this far Smile

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YonicScrewdriver · 19/04/2015 09:23

If there are 30 or multiples of 30 in the class, it's very unlikely you'll be admitted unless a mistake was made and even less likely all 4 will be.

YonicScrewdriver · 19/04/2015 09:25

Things like being on a witness protection scheme are what would qualify, not a year where unexpectedly there were more children than average in the village.

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 09:26

There are 30 who have been offered places, although we're not sure whether all of these are in the village. One lady has had an offer letter but she lives about 1 mile outside of the village boundary, but she's also had an offer letter from another school as well so there seems to have been a mistake there.
There are 30 in the current YR and 29 in the current Y1.

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ButterflyUpSoHigh · 19/04/2015 09:27

I agree with Yonic it's highly unlikely you will win an appeal. Did you list more than one school? It seems strange that the 4 children have been given 4 different schools.

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 09:28

We listed one other school, as did another mum, one mum didn't list any other schools and one listed 2 others. We didn't list 2 others as the head teacher had told us at the open morning in July that village children are pretty much guaranteed a place.

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eddiemairswife · 19/04/2015 09:40

Don't listen to advice from heads about the admission process. Too late for you, I know,but so often people are given misleading information from schools.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 19/04/2015 09:42

Are you above the mum who doesn't live in the village and got two letters on over subscription criteria? Because that would mean that a mistake was made and they shouldn't have let her child in. And so should have let another child in. It won't help you though - just the child who is first on the list.

Does it make sense that you are last on the village kids waiting list? Ie are you about as far away from the school as you can get and still in the village? Or whatever the oversubscription criteria is. Because that is how you get in - by proving a cock up was made and they measured your address as "Church Street" when you actually live in "Church Road".

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 09:51

Yes we're above the mum who doesn't live in the village. We are in the village and IMO should be 3rd on the waiting list. Mum who got two letters isn't sure whether she's actually got a place yet. I spoke to the head teacher on Thursday morning and she said they didn't have their final pupil list as there had been a 'glitch' with the local authority. There are also 9 children who have got a place who aren't at the preschool, which is feasible I suppose but seems a lot considering the size of the village. The houses are concentrated in two estates at either end of the village, with not many houses in between near the school iyswim. So we are all struggling to understand where these children live!

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superram · 19/04/2015 09:56

I think your grounds for appeal are weak-you need to think about what the village school can offer your child that the other can't. Your la has offered you a school place so has fulfilled its legal obligations. I personally wouldn't join forces with the others as there is no way they will let you all in on appeal as you all fall outside on distance and as far as I can tell don't have strong reasons why you must attend that school. Good luck though.

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 10:54

Our reasons are that it's the only school we can walk to. The school we've been offered is 3 miles away and has no safe walking route at all. If we drive to it, there is nowhere to park to drop children off. The majority of village community events are based around the school so DS will be entirely isolated from them. Every other child on our estate got a place so he will be socially excluded from everything. He's already formed friendships at preschool and those children are going to the school. The preschool take them to the village school for lunch on a Monday and to use the library, to familiarise them ready for September so they are just reinforcing the assumption that all children will get a place at the school.
I have a prolapsed disc in my back so when it is bad the medication I need to take means I can't drive.
No one in the entire village can believe there are children who didn't get a place!

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ButterflyUpSoHigh · 19/04/2015 11:00

What are the admissions criteria for the school? If distance is the first then you are too far away. If the other 30 children live closer then they are more entitled to the place than you are. You may be lucky and if they have space they may put a bulge class in taking all the extra children. It would be very rare though.

caroldecker · 19/04/2015 11:02

If the walking route is over 2 miles, they have to provide free transport. The other reasons are irrelevant for a class size appeal.

YonicScrewdriver · 19/04/2015 11:05

The 9 children not in pre school may have gone to childminders or day care.

Your reasons would not qualify to make it a perversely unreasonable decision, I'm afraid.

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 11:06

Does anyone know what kind of reasons do qualify as perversely unreasonable?

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YonicScrewdriver · 19/04/2015 11:07

He will be able to see friends from the estate after school, at beavers etc in due course. I know it's not the same but children can stay friends whilst being at different schools.

The lady with two offers does sound like a mistake but I imagine she will choose one or one will be withdrawn and so one more place may be available.

YonicScrewdriver · 19/04/2015 11:10

I think it's case by case but it would be some thing like the witness protection thing or social workers' children being separated from a family they had on the books.

Pantone363 · 19/04/2015 11:19

Is it possible that some of the children got in on the sibling criteria?

Some of the older children may have moved out of the village but their siblings would still get a place. That may count for some of the 'missing' children.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 19/04/2015 11:22

Is your house genuinely the furthest away? It's definitely worth checking they have measured it properly from correct point.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 19/04/2015 11:27

The only hope you have of an appeal if the class is at the infant class size limit (ie 30) is to show that there has been a mistake in the admission process and were it not for this mistake your child would have had the place.

So if somebody has two offers and lives further away that is a good start. You may be fourth on the list now but you don't know what position you were when the list was released (eg if some made late admission requests after the initial deadline) so it's worth a shot at an appeal.

Things you can do now:

  1. check the distance used is correct.


  1. Double check if you meet any of the priority admission criteria.


  1. Make sure you are definitely on the waiting list for the school you want.


  1. Check who actually administers the admissions. You mention you have been talking to the school but should you be talking to the local authority?


When does your child turn 5?
MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 11:29

There shouldn't be any who live further away who got a place on the sibling criteria as that is ranked below proximity to school here.

I have asked for a map showing the proximity but they won't provide it. They've given me the distance of our house but can't tell me what point they measured to. It seems they have measure from the main school gate to a point at each child's address, but what point is unknown - whether it's front door, or closest point to the school I don't know.

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MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 11:41

MovingOn, the school is an academy so they set and apparently apply their own admissions criteria. However, the local authority are also involved. From what I can work out, the local authority gave the school the distances for each child, the school ranked them and the local authority sent out the offer letters. However, our offer letter didn't give a reason for not getting a place, it said to contact the school.

In terms of an appeal, these are not run through the local authority, their advice is to contact the school. The school's advice is to contact the diocese. So it seems appeals are run through the diocese and I have received my appeal pack now from them.

As far as I can work out, no-one who has been offered a place has been asked to prove that the address they gave is actually where they live.

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Pantone363 · 19/04/2015 11:50

I think the best you can hope for is that some of the families lied/used family addresses to get in and the school decides to check. Usually in a village most people would know roughly how many preschoolers there are, parents lying to get kids in might clear it up. Is it a particularly good school?

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MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 19/04/2015 11:56

Are you absolutely sure that's correct about sibling criteria? It is not unheard of but is unusual. Does the school have a catchment or just distance criteria?

The distance criteria may well be as the crow flies or walking distance depending on the criteria.

The walking distance is often from the closest gate to a "seed point" which unless you live in a block of flats or a mansion is unlikely to make much odds.

Can you supply the over subscription criteria?

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 19/04/2015 12:04

I still think you need to gather that important evidence to check the over subscription criteria has been fairly applied before you get bogged down in who to make the appeal to etc.

The simple fact is that if the school is over subscribed (and the published criteria for over admissions means that your child is ranked below other children) and the admission criteria has been fairly applied and your child doesn't get a place that's just tough luck and you have no grounds for appeal.

It is horrible and I absolutely do sympathise - I've been there. Riding out the waiting lists is all you can do if you can't find a reasonable ground to appeal.

MillieMoodle · 19/04/2015 13:21

The oversubscription criteria states:
"When the school has more applications than there are places available the governors will admit pupils according to the following criteria listed in order of priority. The governors will give priority to children with a statement of Special Educational Needs which names X school as the most appropriate school in meeting the needs of the child.

  1. 'Looked after children' - that is children in local authority care or previously 'looked after children' but immediately being looked after became subject to an adoption, residence or special guardianship order.


  1. Children with specific medial or social needs, where professionals have clearly identified that the school will best meet the needs of the child.


  1. Children of teaching staff employed by X school at the date of admission.


  1. Children living with their parents/legal guardians in the parish of X.


  1. Children with a sibling attending the school at the time of admission.


  1. Other children.


Where there are more applications in any one category, applications will be prioritised on the distance from the child's home to the address point of the school. Distances are measured on a straight-line basis from the address point of the child's permanent residence to the address point of the school using the local authority geographical information system."

The school is ofsted rated outstanding so it is not outside the realms of possibility that people have lied about addresses to get a place. Based on the people I know in the village, I think I could work out who lives in pretty much every house.

In the last 12 years, there has only been one child who didn't get a place, (11 years ago!) it was a late application, the parents appealed and won, so the child got a place.
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