Just discovered '2e' children and very excited. Anyone heard of them?

[MerryMarigold]

Sounds so American. "Twice exceptional". But basically means G & T at one end, but with Learning Disabilities at the other end.

I think this may be my ds1. It's been such a long road with him and he is 9 now. He's had such a difficult, unhappy time at school. But last week and today, he's had a cognitive assessment and even without getting the results, I can tell he did really, really well in some areas (creative thinking) and really badly in others (working memory). I think it may show this '2e' thing (just stumbled on it tonight whilst reading about the test) and I feel like my eyes are starting to be opened because so many things, right down to the anxiety these children feel, is so spot on for him.

Anyone have more information about this? Is this something people know about in the UK education system?

[tigrou]

I don't particularly like the term, but my DD is "2e" dyslexic and gifted... Stumbling across the term did help me (and DD) understand where she was coming from though. I'm not in UK do can't comment about that, but I think the important thing is not to focus exclusively on areas of weakness but also encourage areas where they are strong, allow them to show their potential while supporting them where necessary... DD's school have done this by, for example, having a teacher or TA scribe her creative writing, so she produced four pages of super story instead of four lines, allowing her to use printed times table sheet and so concentrate on finding the right sum to answer a maths problem instead of getting bogged down in automatic recall issues...

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Yes I have heard of the term, but I also don't find it particular useful as the vast majority with processing disorder are also very bright.
My DD and myself are both dual exceptional what I found and it also appears to help DD too is accepting that whilst you are very bright and an achieve anything you set your mind to it is horribly unfair as you have to work so much harder than anybody else.
Getting all the help you can with the processing disorder is good, but also accepting the unfairness of it all.
DD has come on leaps and bounds in the three months since we had the unfairness discussion and she just accepts that the work takes her longer.

[Heels99]

There are quite a few parents of twice exceptional children on the gifted and talented thread if you post there. I hadn't realised it wasn't commonly known about as it seems often referred to.

[MerryMarigold]

Thanks. I'd never heard of it. I am still waiting on his WISC results, but it's the first meeting we've ever had where I felt others saw his strengths and he could show off. His teacher this year is encouraging (he's a very nice person) and his YR teacher always said he was intelligent but apart from that all we have had is a lot of issues, horrible parents' evenings and a huge amount of anxiety on his part. I will post in G & T, if we get this diagnosis. Never thought I'd be doing that!

[MerryMarigold]

It's funny. I always said to dh that I wished he were less intelligent as he always seemed so aware of how much he struggled, whereas other children with similar struggles just seemed to not really care that they weren't doing as well as others (certainly in YR and Y1), but he was always beating himself up over it and is still very embarrassed to ask for help. Maybe this will explain that constant mental struggle.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Merry overcoming the unfairness is a very big part of being successful. As a parent rewarding effort is really helpful and acknowledging that it is unfair too.

[tigrou]

I think the level of frustration they feel is heightened, because they can understand things so quickly and easily, but not necessarily do them easily.

[MerryMarigold]

Agree regarding the unfairness. I am not sure he does understand things easily (Maths?) and is easily distracted, has ADD diagnosis. It's just so lovely to think there are strengths, but they weren't ones which people could see easily - problem solving, verbal ability. He struggles across the board - motor skills, possible dyslexia (didn't show up in screening test, but maybe it was done too late when he was already compensating). But anyway, I am jumping ahead because I don't know what the scores will be.

[Killasandra]

I think pretty much every severely dyslexic child is 2e.

I have never met a severely dyslexic child that wasn't also VERY bright.

(Of course that may just be the social circle I move in)

Anyway, my DS is both on the G&T and SEN register. But I'm not excited or bothered by either label.

[MerryMarigold]

Killasandra, I expect if your dh's G & T had been totally overlooked, as had his dyslexia, you may be a bit more excited. If it is obvious from the start due to 2 very clear issues, then it's not really necessary. If, as my ds, the issues are multiple and have disguised ANY sign of potential G & T-ness in a school environment, then yes, it is quite exciting!

[Heels99]

I know dyslexic children who are not particularly bright. It doesn't follow that if you dyslexic your are also clever, you can have dyslexia with any level of intelligence from super bright to thick as a plank.
Merry marigold I wouldn't get too excited that your child is an overlooked genius. He will need a lot of help to achieve his potential and will that help be available???

[MerryMarigold]

Heels, yes, as I said we don't know any scores yet. He just really surprised me on the test, going as far as I could on some of them. We did the test as I was worried about his working memory which was flagged up on the dyselxia screening (which he passed fine overall, but some of the scores were very low, including that one). I wasn't really expecting anything except to find out whether he has working memory problems and then finding out how to help him with those specifically.

As far as help etc., we will need to cross all those bridges when we come to them and find out what his weaknesses are, and strengths. The prospect of strengths is so exciting though. It's just one more step on this long journey which began in YR. I have 2 other children but ds1 has always confused us, worried us, worried himself and caused a lot of a stress for the whole family - so any steps to helping this are exciting, even for him to realise that there is this dichotomy in him which has been so difficult for him.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

both my girls are very bright but the eldest has other issues going on too. We had a WISC test done nearly a year ago when she was in Yr1 (just as she was 6.5) and her non verbal IQ and memory were over 140 but her non verbal was average (2 whole standard deviations lower) and her processing speed was just in the high average (only just, bordering average).

She has a language disorder which is often associated with motor planning/dyspraxia and dyslexia, she has a huge number of dyslexia signs but managed to pass the screen test because it was age appropriate so she already knew all the words and the only made up words in it were so short she could do them (she struggles over a certain length) and she is an excellent reader (she also has eye problems though so finds it hard work), she is quite plainly dyspraxic in many many ways and I know has motor planning problems but she compensates well and is incredibly determined so again managed to pass the ABC test so they won't diagnose her with anything although the paediatrician told us to treat her as if she has dyspraxia (but he won't put that in writing!).

so she is probably classed as multiple exception.

I agree that it is so hard for these children. they know something isn't right, they are frustrated because in many ways things should be easy for them but they seem harder, it must be frustrating to be clever but not be able to communicate or demonstrate that intelligence. the classic thing that happens is neither the intelligence or the problem is identified and they struggle along still being average so not of concern at school but terribly frustrated, having some emotional and behavioural problems and anxiety etc as a result.

Sadly for these children they tend not to get any help or support with their problems, they are still achieving (in some cases still achieving above average) so school budget doesn't stretch to helping them which I can understand but they should get some acknowledgement of just how hard they are working to achieve the normal levels. Our school has been brilliant with DD since we have been able to identify the problems. she doesn't get specific help but equally I don't think she needs it or wants it but they are aware of the situation and supportive when required.

Once you know though, even without any support, you can do so much at home. I gave up waiting for someone to identify the dyslexia issues so bought toe by toe. we didn't have to work through it all which you are supposed to because we had identified there were key areas she struggled with that we hadn't already managed to address so we went over and over those following their techniques, same with the dyspraxia problems, she does exercises, practices a lot of skills repeatedly (she likes this - she is a perfectionist and competitive), she does swimming, tap and ballet to help with coordination and so on. language wise we paid for private speech therapy which was worth the money (well my parents paid most of it actually to help us out so we were lucky we could afford to) but the SALT kept the number of sessions lower to make it affordable, gave us homework to do, tips about what else we can do etc rather than us just have to keep paying out. It means I feel fairly confident WE can help her to learn to help herself.

I do think though that an identified dual exception child will go a long way in the world. They have to be determined and hard working every day and therefore I think they get a good work ethic, they want to achieve and if they can learn to manage their frustration and that if you practice things you will get there eventually then they will go far. they are prime candidates for help to actually work so that puts them in a really good position.

PM me if you want a chat.

[MerryMarigold]

Thanks so much, nonicknames. Yes, the WISC is what we just had so will be very interesting. My hunch is that he did very well in the non verbal, quite well in verbal, lower in the reading/ Maths test and very low on the memorization. I'll see what the psychologists say as we're very lucky to have been able to get this all for free and I get a follow up with them. He only did the dyslexia screen this year (which I paid for) when he was nearly 9 and could do all the phonic stuff as he has been taught it so well, but it took him a long time to work it all out. It wasn't a full dyslexia test.

Ds1 was very behind in Y1 and is now just about hitting national average (not school average though as it's a good school) so has shown huge improvement. He is very self controlled, but he hates anything which he sees as schoolwork. It's really only with my younger kids that I have seen how much he's struggled and had a hard time in school, or even just to learn something like putting shoes on/ doing coat up/ getting himself dressed.

The paed said, "Developmental delay" which basically means motor problems, attention problems etc. etc. I originally only went in to the school because of his anxiety issues in YR and Y1 and because he was falling so far behind his peers, the children he grew up with, and was highly aware of this. There was also bullying so it's been a minefield to figure out what the issues were - social ones, emotional ones etc. It's taken till now Y4 to get the WISC (I didn't even know it existed).

[goingmadinthecountry]

I have a gifted dyslexic. He's 18 now and happy for the first time at college because he's doing something he really excels in. When he had his first dyslexia assessment aged 8 he was judged in the top 1% for verbal skills. He was frustrated by written exams though got himself to grammar school and passed the appropriate clutch of GCSEs but not at the A* he was predicted. He's VERY dyslexic.

He can now see a good career ahead of him - his current course has a number of units that require verbal feedback. Perfect. His confidence is restored. He's as bright as dd1 who could have dropped a good few points and still achieved A*s at A level but would never have shown it. That's what worries me about the government's new plan - where do our able but disabled children fit in?