'Banding' in Welsh Primary Schools

[LingDiLong]

Just wondered if any Welsh mumsnetters had an opinion on this? Primary schools in Wales have been banded for the first time from Green (Excellent), Yellow (Good), Amber (In need of improvement) to red (failing essentially). The criteria used are things like test results, inspection reports, self-assessment with things like % FSM taken into account all over a period of 3 years.

Discussion of this has caused an almighty row on my Facebook today with threats of violence and all sorts!!! Just wondered what others think really?

[DharmaBumpkin]

There's only one green primary near us, all the rest are red and amber (only local high school is also red). I'd say those ratings were accurate, and really really hope that the bumpf about supporting the red schools in a much more directed way is more than just hot air.

[TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway]

I don't think we've been given enough information to be honest about exactly how the ratings have been decided on and what they actually mean for the school. Ours got a yellow, and the local comp got green which is great for us but it's too simplistic. I love our school, we chose to go out of catchment based on the ethos of the school (although our catchment school which has always blown its own trumpet also got yellow interestingly!) not the results so it doesn't change my view. What's also interesting is the school earmarked for closure due to budget cuts in the next LA, that I have visited for work and seemed lovely, didn't do well - read into that what you will!

[IDontDoIroning]

Look on the Welsh government website and there are 2 booklets available to download ine for parents and one for teachers/advisors.
Im a governor and it's been quite s while in the making. It's not perfect but probably better than the original banding system
There's a letter a number a colour and an arrow to indicate prospects for improvements.

[LingDiLong]

So you think there may be some politics involved TheCold? Interesting. My kids' school got yellow which feels accurate to me - it's a good school but there's definitely room for improvement. All our local schools got yellow, except one which got green. I don't know enough about any of them to say whether that's accurate or not though.

Dharma, I hope it leads to improvement too. I just hope it doesn't lead to a similar situation to schools in London/England generally where it's a scrap to get into the schools that are perceived as 'the best'.

[LingDiLong]

Thanks IDon't - I'll take a look.

[RhiannonElward]

Hello there, mind if I chip in?

I think there needs to be actual data on every school published with these things, I want to know where my son's school fell short to get a Yellow band. For the record I am very pleased with the school and I am surprised it didn't fare better, although of course yellow is fine. The Estyn report is glowing (although 5 years old, I wish they inspected more often!) and it's being doubled in size because of the good performance and demand for places. I have seen recent data which puts it ahead of some schools that were banded higher than it too so I'm a little confused.

Also, I find all of these oversimplified systems a little patronising. I know they are trying to make these things simple, but I think most parents won't be happy with a band, we want to know where our schools need to improve and where they excel. I have heard criticisms that schools with a high rate of free school meals children are having to work harder to get a green and our catchment is a low income area, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I also worry that the attainment of Key Stages in English/Welsh is more difficult for Welsh medium schools, because of course the children are learning the Welsh language from scratch in most cases and they aren't doing English in school at all. Can someone put me straight on these things? Do the stats properly account for the language issues?

Sorry for all the questions, I am going to email the headmaster with all this, just for clarity.

[admission]

Rhiannon, as schools in Wales get inspected at least very 6 years and since last September can be much shorter periods of time, I would expect you school to be receiving a visit this academic year.
I think people need to be careful in interpretation because to me Yellow would be a perfectly respectable situation to be in. Every school including the relatively few who are green can improve. The decision on the band includes the Estyn inspection but also the outcome of visits by LA / Regional consortium people to the schools - at a much higher frequency than an Estyn inspection.

[RhiannonElward]

Thanks for the response admission, I checked the Estyn schedule and there aren't any scheduled visits to my son's school for this year and that the new system means that they will be visited before 2020 but not necessarily every six years? So it might end up being almost ten years between inspections and that's too much. Reports that are that old are irrelevant really, especially in schools that have changed heads like ours has since the last inspection.

I am not interpreting Yellow as a bad place to be, it isn't and I know the school is good, but obviously it fell short in some areas to not make the standard for Green but I have no idea where. I'd like to know the good points and areas for improvement, but my son might be ready to leave the school by the time I get accurate information about this in another Estyn report.

[LingDiLong]

I see what you mean about it being overly simplistic Rhiannon, it's always nice to know specifically where a school needs improvement. We get yearly Governor's reports for our school where they compare how schools achieve against the national average, that's helpful from an academic viewpoint.

From what I understand it's the Secondary Schools that have a high percentage of FSMs that have been unable to reach green banding. In our local area the primary school with the highest percentage of FSMs has been the only one to get a green banding.

My children go to a Welsh medium school and they very much do learn English, just not until Year 3 and up. I've noticed that our school gets great results at KS2 but not so great results at the end of the foundation phase - this is quite possibly because they are being 'tested' in Welsh only at foundation phase but may not have a good enough grasp of the language to really show excactly how good their literacy/maths or whatever is. Certainly this was pointed out by my child's Reception teacher at her last parents evening - that the children often appear to score low in their assessments but that's because they're being assessed in Welsh.

[RhiannonElward]

Yes Ling, I do think that results for Welsh medium schools are not really comparable. My son is in Reception and does no English yet, I know they do it later on and I should have made that clear in my post. At his first assessments, he is certainly going to need to have learned more to get the same grades as children in English medium schools and that is bound to affect the overall school results. Only one welsh medium primary school got to be Green in my LEA.

Mostly what bothers me though is that we aren't offered the information they base this on, just a colour, it's just not very useful. I want regular updates that are meaningful, and I don't seem to be getting much of that.

[Fiddlerontheroof]

There is data you can look at here....it helped me work out why my child's shitty school was amber when I'd be convinced they were red....turns out they only just scraped iñto amber.

mylocalschool.wales.gov.uk

[Fiddlerontheroof]

Incidentally, I'd be happy with yellow. It means they know what areas need development, and have the ability to sort that out for themselves. X

[admission]

Rhiannon,
The Estyn schedule only gives schools that are going to be inspected within the 4 week timetable that all schools in Wales get. So at present that is up to the 2nd March 2015.
Estyn have started to inspect schools at more frequent intervals than the 6 years it was previously, so for instance schools that were inspected in late 2010 are starting to be inspected again. All schools should also be inspected in the 6 year time frame of the current inspections regime which started in September 2010. I suspect that if you ask the head teacher of your school, they will say that they expect to be inspected shortly.