Welsh medium Education if you are not a first language Welsh speaker

[RobinCoch]

I am choosing schools for my DS and considering the local Welsh medium school which I have visited and really liked.

I speak some (learned) Welsh but it's not spoken at home.

DS has been in an English Medium private nursery so has not been immersed in a Welsh Language nursery like some of his peers will have been.

Has anyone here done this? How has it been? What were the first few days/weeks like in terms of confusion for your child?

I have a niggling doubt about doing it because I am worried how he will feel in the first few weeks, maybe not understanding a word etc. Am I just being too precious? He'll pick it up quickly won't he?

Any info from English speaking parents who have done this would be lovely. We are in South Wales rather than in a very Welsh speaking area.

many thanks

*have name changed as this could out me!

[LittleMissGreen]

I have a friend who moved from England to a Welsh speaking area of Wales where there was only Welsh medium. Her children picked up Welsh very quickly in their new schools (both primary aged). She had more of a problem that she was unable to help them with their homework.

We live in an English speaking part of Wales and at the Welsh school on the playground a lot of English is still spoken by the pupils especially lower down the school.

[mulberrybag]

our two managed just fine, primary teachers tend to speak "baby"welsh with a lot of repetition and kids will pick up the language surprisingly quickly. one major piece of advice I'd give is to make sure you do extra curricular english spelling and writing with them, our eldest has atrocious spelling on account of learning welsh first which is spelt phonetically so "makes sense" to them, whereas english is a confusing language to learn spelling wise. I hope that makes sense. it really is lovely listening to them chatter away with each other fluently and I wish my parents had let me carry on learning welsh instead of making me learn German, which I've Never used since! !

[MisForMumNotMaid]

My eldest two went into Welsh medium education. dS1 from 5 post english stream with a smattering of Welsh (numbers/ colours) DS2 from 3 with no Welsh.

Both were fluent within a term. The teachers were used to children from English language background homes. I found the first two years homework was fine - reading was easy but then they exceeded my language understanding and sometimes I had to seek help.

Various life complications and we're now back in England but DS2 says he doesn't speak fluent Welsh. He has a very odd understanding of his bilingualism. Its just the way you talk in school in Wales or to Daddys friends. He just flips between one language and the other depending on who he is talking to.

The funding access is better for Welsh medium education and that can be no bad thing.

I don't regret the decision, even with our move to England the boys have a far better grasp of languages in general. DS2 has caught up with his new peer group at Spanish in two terms what they've learnt over four years and DS1 is learning French and doesn't get overwhelmed by the different order of sentences etc that I remember took me a while to get my head around.

We did have a bit of bad feeling near to an Estyn inspection were there was a bit of an English knot situation going on (children effectively felt punished for using English). We were in very Welsh North Wales though and some of the Welsh national stuff, as with any extreme group, isn't a fair representation of the masses.

[RobinCoch]

Than you for the replies.

It's so hard to know what to do as I have worries RE secondary education and not being able to help him with things like Chemistry (Which I found hard enough in English) when he is older.

[MillyMollyMama]

I think it is a reason why schools in Wales under-achieve in comparison to their English counterparts. I would not send a child to one of these schools unless Welsh was spoken at home and everyone was fluent. I think it just makes taking exams more difficult and not all children are linguists and can master two languages to the high level required. If you want a top university, and you have concerns about your child being fluent in two languages, then stay with English.

[RobinCoch]

Milly - do you mean all schools or just Welsh Medium schools?
I think there are more English medium schools in Wales so surely it would be those who are contributing to the figures too?
In Cardiff (Where I am) the Welsh medium secondary schools out perform many of the English Medium secondary school.

I don't know how much better the fluent Welsh language speakers do though.

There was a report in the press recently RE Welsh Medium education saying that Bilingual pupils in Wales are less likely to underachieve (Bit of a strange headline but they seem to have changed it since I read it.

However this is just for primary schools, not secondary.

Looking at the banding for schools it seems like the Welsh medium school my son would feed into is not in the top banding but the next one down (out of 4 'bandings') however I still don't feel like I have enough info RE his ability to learn through Welsh without parents who are speaking the same language to the same level.

[SpringCleaningStartsNow]

Hi there. My dc went to a Welsh medium nursery before starting school and their Dad spoke Welsh to them at home so they weren't in the same situation as yours but I wouldn't worry about the initial adjustment too much. There is a book which it's possible to get online or from a library called 'Magu'r Babi' I think which might help you to familiarise them with things the teacher will say like "Please sit down", " Take your coat off", "Come over here" etc.

I've not found that being bi-lingual has helped my two with other languages. I think that the way Modern Foreign Languages are taught these days is the reason for that, though.

It certainly does help with finding Saturday jobs (such as retail and waitressing) in my area if you can speak Welsh. It also is a major advantage in many other jobs too.

PM me if you want to ask me anything. Best of luck! Pob lwc!

[hippo123]

English family here, both dc in welsh primary. I won't lie, I found it hard. I found watching assembly / Christmas concert hard when I couldn't understand a word. Letters home would often only be in welsh. Parents were only talking welsh at the school gate so it was hard to make friends. This was a very welsh school, in a very welsh area though. My ds was the only welsh child in his class of over 30. I was the only English parent. My ds didn't speak a word of English or welsh during his first term (spoke English fine at home). I worried loads, considered moving back to England etc. however after Christmas holidays he spoke fluent welsh all of a sudden. He's 7 now and totally fluent I believe.

We then moved to another nearby village (not anything to do with schools). Dd is now in reception, again at a welsh medium school. She can sing a bit in welsh, count, colours etc. she understands most things said to her. I'm not worried this time around as I know she'll get there. She does have a few other English kids in her class and they are definite friends, I suspect mainly due to the language. The school is much friendlier, letters home are bilingual and I don't stick out as the only English mum quite so much.

I feel it's really important that the kids learn to speak welsh, not only for jobs around here should they wish, but also socially. Swimming lessons etc are done though welsh, shop keepers, bus drivers etc are welsh. To be part of this community they have to speak welsh therefore I am happy to support them in doing so.

I don't think I will send them to a welsh secondary though resulting in them having a long bus ride to the nearest bilingual secondary. I doubt anyone else from their class will make the same decision so I can see problems regarding friends and my dc not wanting to go then. But you have a while until you reach that stage.

Overall I think it's great that they are learning welsh but it hasn't been easy. Reading / homework etc is very hard for us. I also couldn't agree with the school not teaching English until year 3, so we taught ds at home and are currently teaching dd. ds English reading is much better then his welsh but then I guess he's exposed to it more. I feel it has given my children loads of benefits however if I lived in a more English speaking area of wales (and actually had a choice in sending them to an English speaking primary) I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pick an welsh medium education for them.

[confusedandemployed]

I was educated through the medium of Welsh from the age of 3 and didn't speak it at home. I did extremely well academically, and have done well in the workplace too. It absolutely DOES NOT FOLLOW that children in Welsh medium schools who don't speak it at home will underachieve. It is an extremely personal thing.

When I was in school there were definitely some kids who would probably have done better at an English medium school. Say, perhaps 10-15% of the kids in my class. I would suggest that this is not unusual and probably brings the achievement stats down for Welsh medium.

If your child turns out to be one of those 10-15%, then I firmly believe you should consider moving them as early as possible. However, if your child is one of the 85-90% who does fine, then a second language is a brilliant additional string to their bow and, speaking personally, has got me quite a few jobs over the years.

My DD will be educated at Welsh medium schools. I will try to speak it to her at home but English will probably always be our main language at home.

[sashh]

I think one advantage children who are native English speakers in Wales have over ESOL children arriving in England is that their teachers will be bilingual.

If you child says he/she feels sick or needs the toilet they will be understood.

There was an experiment in Canada where English speakers were sent to French medium schools where the teachers were bilingual. Not sure it is the same in Wales but the Canadian model the teacher spoke only French but children could answer or ask in either English or French, they had positive outcomes.

I've been teaching near the Welsh boarder recently and the only thing the students educated in Welsh have complained about was that they had to learn new terms for biology/physiology which surprised me as most medical terms are based on Greek in English and I thought most languages.

On the other hand with the 'equality and diversity' unit I had the students create a menu which accommodated various different people, and then asked them to translate in to another language or draw pictures to represent the food.

[RosieProbert]

I'm in the valleys and DS went to meithrin at 2. The welsh medium school here is great and lots of 'good' families send their children there (whatever that's supposed to mean!!!)

I was all for it, did a ton of research, spoke to welsh speaking colleagues and senior staff length (I'm a teacher) and signed up to welsh lessons.
I have a very good oral& aural ability in welsh but dear lord I struggled with the nitty gritty of it! It was also hard completing the work and keeping up with the language use whilst working ft.
Based on this, I made the decision to send him to the English medium village primary as I felt unless I could commit and cope 100% with my own welsh learning, if be doing DS a disservice by being unable to help him. That's just my personal opinion though.
The school he's in are excellent at using everyday welsh and the language skills he learned in meithrin have been useful. I'm satisfied that throughout school, he will have a good exposure to welsh and opportunity to use it.
Try a course and see how you feel? The university of South Wales run them throughout communities. I did mine at canolfan soar in Merthyr.

Good luck with your decision!

[RobinCoch]

Thanks everyone, and Hippo for the long response.

I was put into a Welsh medium school in West Wales at the age of 7 and was totally confused at first but picked it up fairly easily (Not managed to keep it up though as we then moved to an area with only an English medium school).

FWIW I am rubbish at picking up new languages but I have heard, from a Welsh Medium headmistress, that there is work going on (in her school at least) to look at how to improve learning/teaching of a third language (French/German) alongside Welsh.

I am increasingly convinced that things like reading and writing in English are important for me, as well as being able to help him with his work. While I can see the benefit of learning Welsh in Wales, and I really want to give him that opportunity, I just can't convince myself it is the right thing over all. I have considered doing the primary thing and then switching to an English medium school but I can see problems there too (Like having to leave his friends behind etc) so I think i just have to commit to one or the other.

never thought it would be so difficult to decide. When I speak to people they are either very Pro Welsh Medium schools or only have experience of their kids in Welsh Primary so haven't experienced the helping out with homework situation yet. it also doesn't help that so many people are only putting their kids through Welsh medium to avoid the not so great English medium primaries here.

[SpringCleaningStartsNow]

Hi RC. I wrote a long post and then lost it due to timing out after having logged in much earlier! Anyway... it is your decision of course but I didn't help with homework and neither did dh. It is quite possible that homework was done in such a way that dc could easily do it without help from parents as so few dc in the Welsh medium school had one or more Welsh speaking parents and the homework was in Welsh.

We have a Welsh secondary and an English secondary in our area. It doesn't follow that most of the dc from the Welsh primary go on to the Welsh secondary. It is a fairly even split. Yes, it means that some friends go to the other school but that's how it is here and they see each other at the leisure centre, sports events, etc anyway. If there isn't an English primary that is at least as good as the Welsh one you are considering then that would be a big factor in my decision making if I were you. Also, I would expect that it's harder to switch later on from an English primary that wasn't up to the mark to a Welsh primary than the other way round. It is your call though. Best of luck with it. :)