Y6 SATS - I don't get it.

[WiseGuysHighRise]

DC1 is currently having 1hr per week tuition for an entrance exam for a selective school (not a GS area so competition huge and it'll probably come down to tiny percentages). Apparently, people also pay for tuition for SATs in yr 6. Why?

I can understand for a selective school as there is a big knock on effect from that - it can literally decide the next 5-7 years of their life. But, I thought SATs were to measure the school and the teaching? Don't secondary schools do their on tests at the beginning of yr7?

I just think I'm missing something - why is the score my DC gets in the SATs important to my DC ?

[TeenAndTween]

I'm just a parent. One of my DDs has been through y6 so far. We did not use tutoring, though I worked with my DD throughout the later years of primary to improve her maths.

My view / understanding:

y6 SATs scores are used as the official baseline to set targets and measure progress at secondary. So a low y6 level may lead to low expectations in secondary. An artificially high y6 level may lead to undue pressure in secondary.

Some secondaries use y6 SATs for initial setting.

A solid improvement in attainment brought about by good quality tutoring in y6 (or any other year for that matter) may provide a firmer baseline on which to build in secondary, leading to better results later down the line.

A good level achieved in y6 can lead to improved self esteem and confidence in a child. They aimed for something and achieved. Again this 'I can do it' attitude can have positive benefits later on.

[PastSellByDate]

Hi WiseGuys:

The KS2 SATs scores are the index by which progress in senior schools is measured. (i.e. their achievement with your child is measured against their end KS2 SATs scores).

They are also used as a predictor for achievement at GCSE (end KS3/ Year 11): www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/secondary_12/Guide_to_KS2-KS4_progress_measures_2012.pdf

Some (but not all) senior schools will use KS2 SATs scores as one of the indicators to stream or set pupils into forms based on ability. Many schools will also run their own tests on induction days or first weeks of Y7 - to reassess pupils - because many primaries rather 'hot house' their students to achieve well on KS2 SATs.

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In general though KS2 SATs are a tool used to assess whether a primary school has effectively done their job, which is of course funded by the tax payers. The benchmark presently is to get 65% of pupils to NC L4 (minimum 4c).

The government is now indicating that NC L4b is considered 'senior school ready' - and are now requiring schools to publish to percentage of pupils attaining NC L4b or higher - ultimately from 2016 they want 85% of pupils in England and Wales to achieve NC L4b or higher: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/297595/Primary_Accountability_and_Assessment_Consultation_Response.pdf - in effect read at their chronological age and able to add/ subtract/ multiply & divide.

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I can understand encouraging your child to work hard at school & do what work the school assigns - but specifically cramming them for KS2 SATs seems to be doing the schools' job for them. If you feel you need to be doing something - encourage lots of reading & speed of recall with basic multiplication facts (especially if applying them - with fractions/ division/ etc...)

I personally take the view that with an average salary of around £39K (around here at least) - parents really shouldn't be doing this kind of thing (home tutoring/ or hiring tutors) for the 'teaching professionals'.

HTH

[WiseGuysHighRise]

Thanks for that - no I won't be tutoring as I think either the school's results are artificially inflated or as you both suggest, DC might get put into an inappropriate set in secondary school.

I'm just glad that I haven't missed something - quite a few people have mentioned "tutoring for SATs" and for the life of me I couldn't see the benefit for DC.

Can kind of understand it now I suppose if a child has had a really ineffective teacher in Y6 and the parent si worried the child's score will be artifically low and the secondary may mainly use this for setting (but that would get sorted quite soon - wouldn't it?).

Thanks again.

[PastSellByDate]

WiseGuys:

I know around here - doing well at KS2 SATs (not necessarily doing anything more - at home/ tutoring/ etc...) - is a worry - because rightly or wrongly parents feel that if their children are put into top or higher sets it will get them away from 'problem' students.

There's a general impression that bullying happens - but not in top sets.

Don't know if that's fair - but a lot of parents use prepping for the 11+ (grammar schools are free here in Birmingham - still state funded here) - and many feel that's great preparation for Y6 SATs (myself included - although we didn't hire tutors but went DIY buying in bond books, reading better quality fiction, etc...).

I also feel that process got my child to where I notionally would have expected a 'good school' to get them (i.e. reading slightly above their chronological age/ confident with core calculation skills - addition/ subtraction/ multiplication/ division & able to apply skills to geometry problems (area/ perimeter/ volume) and basic algebra problems - if 6x = 60 what is x?

But our school was very much against learning times tables - and inverse multiplication facts (24 divided by 6 = ?) nay even ye olde fashioned long division were definitely off the agenda - and I quote: 'We feel at St. Mediocre that division is best left for secondary school' quoting Deputy HT.

[RoadRunner123]

I think it can depend a lot on the skills of the tutor and what exactly you are tutoring for. For you, you sound like are using and thinking of tutors as offering help for passing exams.

We used a tutor last year for DS1...kind of for SATS. But I was hoping that his tutor would actually teach him things that were generally useful and helpful for his literacy skills, not just to pass his SATs.

My son did well in his SATs (much better than I think he would have without the tutor), went into the top set at secondary school (who do initially sort for maths and English based on Sats results) and I think he's in the right set...not because we crammed for SATS but because his tutor taught him!

[trinity0097]

A child who does not achieve a level 4 in English and maths in yr 6 SATs is unlikely to achieve 5 a*-c grades at GCSE.

[EATmum]

My eldest DD had a tutor in her SATS year simply because she got overwhelmed by the pressure of the tests. We had a tutor to do some practice papers with her that didn't count for anything, so she could get more comfortable with the structure at home. It definitely helped her. She stopped crying when they did the tests in school anyway!

[CatKisser]

Sorry to hijack, but past how on earth is the average teaching salary £39k near you? Just...how? I get your point that ideally parents shouldn't "have" to pay for tutors, but you should be careful about things you state as fact, as I think that "average salary" is total bollocks.

[Hulababy]

Teacher's pay scale: www.nasuwt.org.uk/consum/groups/public/@salariespensionsconditions/documents/nas_download/nasuwt_012874.pdf

This is for maintained schools in England and Wales.

£39k is leadership pay.

Starting salary is £22k. The very top of the upper pay scale, for classroom teachers is just under £37.5k

[Hulababy]

A newspaper article (various inc Independent and Telegraph) from Jun 2013 stated that the average pay for a primary school teacher £28,660 in England.

[Hulababy]

Infact the Guardian have an update in September 20014 which states that the average salary for a UK teacher is £24,000, lower than the national UK average salary of £27,000.

[spanieleyes]

This misconception arises quite often because people use the Government school performance table data which clearly states " average gross salary of all full time qualified teachers in a school" without seeming to highlight that this also included the salary of the leadership group including the Head! So classroom teachers receive much less than this. As the highest paid teacher in my school, my salary bears no relationship to the figure quoted in the table data