cem 11plus

[awjab]

hi there my dd is going to start year 4 this September. redbridge has recently changed to cem 11plus. I dont know much about this new system. can someone kindly guide me about cem 11plus and if u can recommend me some books.

[awjab]

any replies please.....................................................

[mrz]

www.cem.org/entrance-assessments

"In order to maintain the fairness of the tests, CEM does not provide any commercially available practice materials, nor recommend any other commercially available materials."

[SeagullsAndSand]

CPG( who are pretty good generally)sell CEM style materials.

[SeagullsAndSand]

Their other 11+ materials are good.

[NanaNina]

I do hope you aren't going to start prepping your DD for this 11+ while she is in year 4 of primary! I think this cem exam sounds more sensible for the reasons given in bold above by mrz. Just a word of warning. My son and dil are both primary school teachers and did not do any prep with their DD and she didn't get into a very selective grammar (about 10% get in) and the girl from her primary who did get in spent the whole of year 8 in a psychiatric hospital with an eating disorder. She told my DGD that she was tutored for "months on end" before the exam. My DGD's parents were of the view that if a child has to be tutored to pass the exam they will struggle at grammar school.

[SeagullsAndSand]

Well your dgd parents are talking bollocks then.

Whilst I agree with you re starting in year 4 which is unnecessary some exam prep is necessary particularly for those kids not in private schools or schools which cover the 11+ content.

Whether said tutoring is done by parents,school or a tutor it's neither here nor there.My DS is G&T,a bright all rounder and has had to go over a few things.He will be fine if he gets in just like the hoards of other kids who do.I personally refuse to do sfa when the prep school down the road does little else but teach to the 11+.I would hate to sit an exam without being exam ready.

The idea behind CEM is great but the fact is the starting block for doing the 11+ is not a level playing field and frankly it is possible to do some prep for any exam.

[mrz]

"Kent may choose to follow the lead of local authorities such as Buckinghamshire, Bexley and Warwickshire, which have recently switched to tests produced by the Centre for Evaluation and Monitoring at the University of Durham. The test is being piloted in Buckinghamshire in a bid to combat the "huge coaching industry" in the area, says Mark Fenton, headteacher at Dr Challoner's grammar school in Amersham. Like many of the 11-plus tests available, children are examined on numeracy and verbal and non-verbal reasoning, but in the new test, questions do not follow a set pattern, so it's far more difficult to "question spot", he says. And because CEM is not a commercial organisation parents won't be able to get their hands on past papers."

www.fabians.org.uk/grammar-schools-are-broken-and-i-should-know/

[VanillaHoney]

The Indies in our area are all preparing students for CEM and primary state academies are now starting to do the same. So why is it that these types if schools are openly preparing whilst the council run primaries keep telling us it is not necessary to prepare. Needless to say that the prep schools have a much higher pass rate than our local primary... Personally I think every test can be prepared for...

[mrz]

Of course you can teach to the test ...isn't that what so many MN parents complain about when it comes to Y6 national curriculum testing?

[SeagullsAndSand]

VR is piss easy to do,no need to question spot.If you need to question spot you're not going to be able to do 80 in 50 minutes.

Re numeracy papers you need to be pretty good at numeracy to do 11+ maths,set pattern isn't going to help much.

Nobody needs a tutor,there is masses online and to be frank I personally think any parent with a kid in mediocre primary should be given a pat on the back if they wish to give their an equal chance to kids in the better state and private primaries.

As for the link so booooored of the bashing sharp elbowed m/c parents spiel.Grammar schools are here to stay and Major quite frankly hadn't got a clue.

[mrz]

www.teachingtimes.com/articles/grammar-schools-priority.htm

[mrz]

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/01/grammar-schools-priority-disadvantaged-pupils-entrance-exams

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/01/grammar-schools-priority-disadvantaged-pupils-entrance-exams

[SeagullsAndSand]

We saw all those links a while ago.

It's a crock and will help very few kids.They still have to pass the exam so the numbers will be tiny and only for those on fsm.Those just above will be penalised.If they're saying money has an impact on pass rate then clearly those just over fsm will be less likely to pass.The prioritised places have to come from some where.They will be less places(admittedly not that many less) but they're just shuffling places.The rich kids from private schools won't even notice.

Have to say although not great,the figures re numbers of poor is actually not a huge percentage to overcome.There is a huge spectrum between those with kids in private and fsm at grammar schools.They're not all rich or poor.Regions vary too.

[SeagullsAndSand]

not all rich or poor

[VanillaHoney]

Of course you can teach to the test ...isn't that what so many MN parents complain about when it comes to Y6 national curriculum testing?

///

Yes except that teaching towards passing the 11plus exams potentially helps a child to get in to a good school. Not sure how Y6 curriculum testing is going to help my child.. I would welcome help from the school to pass the 11+ but I'm not going to do any sats papers at home. Total waste of time in my opinion.

[mrz]

Nothing to do with 11+ everything to do with being an example of teaching to the test

[SeagullsAndSand]

What is?

[mrz]

??

[VanillaHoney]

I can't see the problem with teaching to a test if it is a test that is potentially going to benefit the child.

I moan about the sats because I simply don't care about them...

[SeagullsAndSand]

The teaching that I've done(and he should have done in school) has been hugely beneficial eg literacy terms,extended essay writing,different types of writing,a shed load of maths concepts,reading comp strategies.....

[SeagullsAndSand]

For the 11+.

[teacherwith2kids]

"The teaching that I've done(and he should have done in school) has been hugely beneficial eg literacy terms,extended essay writing,different types of writing,a shed load of maths concepts,reading comp strategies....."

As I have posted on another thread, state primaries are specifically NOT ALLOWED to provide ANY 11+ coaching / teaching. Even in Kent, a fully selective county, schools are allowed to do 1 familiarisation test, and that is it - threat of disciplinary action should a school or teacher do more.

So don't complain that the school 'doesn't do' specific 11+ prep. No state school is allowed to, over and above good general teaching. In theory, the CEM should be fairer in this respect because there is a greater overlap with 'normal' curriculum - VR and NVR, not on the normal curriculum, are not allowed to be coached for / taught in school because that falls under 11+ coaching, ditto test practice.

[SeagullsAndSand]

VR and non VR I had no expectations re school coverage but sorry re reading comp,maths content for the brightest and literacy I do have expectations which weren't met and are in other schools.Actually maths wasn't so bad they covered some of the aspects in the last few weeks.

It's not about coaching but bringing kids up to a level standard.

Our exam is very thorough- reading comp,essay and maths alongside VR.VR is not an issue imvho(and wasn't with us,buggar all needed) but getting kids up to a level standard of literacy and numeracy they are going to be judged on is. The fact is the schools that push the brightest more and cover the content better give their pupils an advantage.