# Talk

## Y6 SATS results

(24 Posts)
Wed 16-Jul-14 19:01:02

Were you given sub-leves, or just levels?

We've been given, for example, level 4 - not 4b as I'd expected.

Do the schools know the sub-levels?

spanieleyes Wed 16-Jul-14 19:04:38

Schools receive whole levels from the DfE when SATS papers are returned and, certainly in my authority only these whole levels are reported by schools-the local authority proforma produced just has whole levels on it.
Schools can, if they want, calculate sub levels but these are just a guide and don't have to be reported. I tell my children the sub level they have achieved once their whole level has been reported to parents.

BreconBeBuggered Wed 16-Jul-14 19:05:08

They know the scores, obviously, but sub-levels aren't officially awarded.

Wed 16-Jul-14 19:06:19

Sub-levels - both those predicted by teacher and those actually achieved

spanieleyes Wed 16-Jul-14 19:15:07

The thing with sub levels is that the threshold boundaries are arbitrary and different schools COULD calculate them in different ways. Say that a level 4 is covered by 21 points, from 40 to 61. Then each sub level is covered by 7/8 points, you could have 40-46 as a 4c, 47-53 as a 4b and 54-61 as a 4a. You could also have 40-47 as a 4c, 48-54 as a 4b and 55-61 as a 4a. Both calculations would be equally valid. My school always has the lowest sub level as the largest number of points if needed, some schools have the mid range as the widest and some have the top range! So a 47 in my school would be a 4c and in the school down the road could be a 4b!

Wed 16-Jul-14 19:27:16

I see.

Would I be the bonkers, annoying parent if I asked for the sub-level?

spanieleyes Wed 16-Jul-14 20:14:38

Not with me you wouldn't! You could either ask for the sub level or the actual score ( in which case we can calculate the sub level for you!!). There's a big difference between scraping a 4c and one mark off a level 5, but both will be reported as a 4!

Wed 16-Jul-14 20:30:12

OK, I'm going to ask then!

I am confused. On the current league tables, information is given for percentage achieving level 4 and above and then separately percentage achieving level 4B and above.

Unless I am reading the tables wrong, this implies that sublevels are not arbitrarily set by the school, but are defined centrally .

spanieleyes Wed 16-Jul-14 20:53:14

They are when league tables are calculated but these are done by Raiseonline and aren't finalised until later in the year. We occasionally find a slight difference between our thresholds and these but, as we err on the side of caution, it's usually in our favour! At the moment schools only have whole levels and thresholds to calculate sub levels from, later we get aggregated data but not individual pupil sub levels.

Wed 16-Jul-14 21:40:47

....and while you are all here...what does " *The result awarded in this test is indicative of a pupil working at the level reported rather than a true National Curriculum level as for other tests. " mean?

The * is next to the Pupil Tests Results

(We were also given "Level Achieved" which is, I presume, the level they were working at in class)

BreconBeBuggered Thu 17-Jul-14 10:56:49

Was that the SpaG test? I was hoping somebody would come along and explain.

PastSellByDate Thu 17-Jul-14 12:35:42

Lynette:

Just a parent - but if this wording was used for science - this subject in fact is not tested for except in schools that a LEA will randomly select for sampling. Therefore this is a 'teacher assessment'.

I think the same applies for writing below NC L6 (where there are formal writing examination papers).

But hopefully a teacher will drop by to clarify this more precisely.

HTH

spanieleyes Thu 17-Jul-14 14:06:56

I would agree with PastSellByDate, this sounds very much like it is a science test result. Some schools are randomly selected for sampling by use of a science test but some schools not selected could conceivably use an "old" SATs test as an assessment tool. SO you will get a test level but not an "official" one!!

Chasingsquirrels Thu 17-Jul-14 14:22:16

It's on the SPAG test, or was for DS.

We had report with sub levels, then SATS sheet with teacher and test levels without sub levels.

spanieleyes Thu 17-Jul-14 14:38:14

In that case it's because SPAG doesn't cover all of the objectives of writing for a specific level but only the SPAG ones so the level achieved isn't a true NationaL Curriculum level because it doesn't test the full extent of the content required, given that we only have NC criteria for writing as a whole!
So the content for say a level 5 in writing will cover some SPAG objectives-which are assessed by the SPAG test- but others too-which aren't! So the level 5 on a SPAG test only reflects part of the content of a true level 5
Does that make sense?

BreconBeBuggered Thu 17-Jul-14 17:00:37

Thing is, it says 'working at the level reported', which to me implies a more rounded grasp of the subject than a single test result. And I don't buy it - DS didn't drop a single mark in the spelling and grammar test, but knowing his subordinate clauses from his active voice doesn't stop him using unwanted apostrophes, or indeed mis-spelling apostrophe, in real life. <dismounts pet hobby-horse>

vjg13 Fri 18-Jul-14 10:31:31

Open evening this week and the teacher was telling the parents the sub levels for their child. She had the scores for each paper and said what they equated to. My daughter didn't want to know but I did! <nasty parent emoticon>

Fri 18-Jul-14 16:25:40

I'm glad you asked this question as I came in here to post the same as having a debate about it with DD now

Can I hijack slightly & just ask does anyone know - am I right in thinking, they can only get level 6, if they took the level 6 papers ??

vjg13 Fri 18-Jul-14 17:18:08

Yes, that had to do an additional exam to get level 6, kids are chosen to enter it earlier in the year and given extra lessons for it.

Fri 18-Jul-14 17:30:49

Thanks vjg I knew about the extra paper etc, I've just got a massively perfectionist DD who is over tired & now very upset with herself for not getting a level 6, when it wasn't possible with the papers she took - we moved schools partly to avoid it & the massive pressure that went with it affecting her health - but she was arguing blacks white that I was wrong - I'm amazed she got anything, she was rushed into hospital that same week & took SATs very ill, but still not good enough for her

Thanks again

mostlysinging Fri 18-Jul-14 17:44:53

We just got levels but did get told percentages as a note at the bottom of it and think they may have done this as we got the results after term had finished so no opportunity to ask questions.

vjg13 Sat 19-Jul-14 10:50:16

RockinHippy, poor thing. Hope she is fully recovered for her new school in September.

Sat 19-Jul-14 21:10:48

Thank you vjg - thankfully yes, it was pretty serious & meant a couple of weeks in hospital for her, but a bit if a blessing in disguise as it turned out a chronic stomach problem wasn't IBS, but was down to a blockage & allergic colitis, so thanks to treatment & cutting out the allergens, her ongoing stomach problems have improved massively

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