Primary Admissions black spot

[KirbyS]

Has anyone ever found themselves in an 'admissions black spot' which isn't covered by any of the local schools?
As an alternative, to the 5 schools within walking distance, my daughter has been allocated a place at a school over 4 miles away and I don't know what my chances are of getting a place closer to home.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

You should get transport provided,

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

Yes, sadly it happens quite a lot. Particularly in London.

[hotcrosshunny]

It did happen last year but they opened up a new school and change a junior school to take reception kids which removed our black spot

[KirbyS]

Thanks for the advice.
Is there any point appealing?
I know practicalities aren't taken into account but I believe that we should have got into our local school (6 mins walk away) but didn't because the admissions routing guide doesn't take into account an entrance/ footpath at the back of the school which specifically opens at the beginning and end of the school day.

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

Do they measure closest walking route or as the crow flies? If the latter, it's irrelevant anyway. Even if it is the former, it's only potentially an issue if the guidance given on how they measure the route is unclear and you could argue that there is an error in how they measured you. If you are just unlucky enough that it's walking route to the front gate, then that's the rule and not a grounds of appeal.

And even if they were vague, bear in mind that lots of other people's distance would also change so you wouldn't necessarily get a spot as a result.

[KirbyS]

The guidelines say that they take into account 'recognised' footpaths so I presumed that the distance measured from our house would be to this back entrance.
I feel that by not taking account of this entrance they penalise the streets behind the school which have no other local school options, other than faith, when those to the front have another 2 non faith schools within walking distance.
Feeling very frustrated.

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

I think you need to look at all the admission guidance (whether there is a list of recognised paths, whether they specify an entrance, etc) and then maybe post a specific thread about it for some of the experts to see.

Unfairness in how they choose to set the criteria (i.e. penalising those who live close to the back entrance and not the front) isn't a ground of appeal. But if the guidance isn't clear about how they will measure it, you need to look into that.

Sadly it is often the case that some houses have a genuine choice of schools and others struggle to qualify for a single one. It's one of the reasons some areas introduce catchments with oddly shaped boundaries, to try and even things out. This has happened round by me with secondary schools.

[KirbyS]

Will do.
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.

[KirbyS]

So am I right in thinking that even though the school we've been offered is 2.8 miles away (closest walking route and 1 1/2hr round trip on public transport) and I'd have to give up my job to drop/ pick my daughter up because the local morning and after school clubs only pick up from local schools and I have another baby to look after and the area we live in has become a black spot not covered by any non faith schools and our closest school is only 6 minutes walk away via a back entrance, I don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to appeal?
Sorry, don't mean to rant....

[ToFollowJulie]

Appealing for infant places is very difficult because classes are limited to 30 per teacher. So if the admission number is a multiple of 30 (or sometimes 15 if classes are combined) it becomes very difficult to win an appeal. The waiting lists are probably your best option.

However, if the infant class size rule doesn't apply - admission number is 25, for example - your appeal only has to prove that your child is more disadvantaged by the decision than the school would be in taking them.

That's a rather simplistic summary. I recommend reading the appeals threads where expert advice is given.

Sorry that things are so hard. I hope a place comes up via the waiting list.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Your LEA should offer your daughter transport to the school.

You may get in from the waiting list.

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

I am guessing given that you have found yourself in a 'black spot' that you are dealing with an Infant Class Size appeal. That means that the classes in KS1 have 30 children in them. That could be because they take 30/60/90 children, or because they combine year groups (e.g. intake of 15 and mixed reception and year 1).

In this case, by law they cannot take more children. You have to prove that there has been an error in the application of the admission criteria (or some other very specialist categories which are unlikely to apply).

Your own personal circumstances are, I'm afraid, not relevant. Nor is how much you like or dislike the school you have been offered. Or how much you dislike other local (faith) schools.

You should look into the distance measurement thing (if only to be sure you can't take it further), but I'd also think about joining the waiting list for some of those faith schools. A faith school may not be your preference, but it's probably better than the journey you describe. And if you don't get your preferred school via the waiting list, but got into one of them, you can still remain on the waiting list for your preferred school. Far fewer people choose to move schools after school has started, so if you are prepared to wait it out through the start of term, you may well get a place at some point during reception (or later years if you are unlucky).

[EarlsfieldDad]

KirbyS - it might help you to know others are in a very similar situation. Live in Wandsworth London and face exactly the same issue, just excluding the bit about how distance is measured (its as the crow flies here). I too have been allocated a space about 3 miles away and can not fathom how i would get my son there.

I think the best approach is to seek the support of the local council/school to try and persuade them of the merits of your case to take an extra class. I am trying to do this via a more local parenting site (link below) to try and reach out to others effected and will be contacting as many people from the council as possible to put pressure on them. Sadly that feels like the only option.

Good luck and let me know how you get on


www.nappyvalleynet.com/mums/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=49028&sid=10e9e8733885a9784f37d0fa9d5d19f9

[KirbyS]

Thanks everyone for your advice.
It just seems so unfair not getting a place at a local school within easy walking distance from home.
What happens if I decline the place I've been offered?

[X3512]

if you decline the place the LA have no need to find you another place so it is a very risky move unless you are prepared to home educate or go private.
Declining the place will not move you any further up the waiting lists of other schools or help you at appeal.

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

It doesn't do anything positive I'm afraid. The local authority has a duty to find you a school place. If you decline the place they have found then they have fulfilled their obligation - it doesn't mean you would automatically be found somewhere else. However, accepting the place doesn't have a negative effect on your waiting list places or any appeal either (in fact, some of the experts have said that refusing places can be seen by appeal panels as verging on attempting to blackmail them by claiming you have no school place so can count against you in terms of sympathy).

Standard advice is to accept the place offered and pursue all your other options alongside that. You should only decline if your fall back is home schooling or private schooling.

[lougle]

If you decline the place the LA had no further duty to offer you a school place. They have met their obligation by offering you that school. You would have to find a school with places and apply for a place.

[OcadoSubstitutedMyHummus]

There is a situation like that very close to me. It sucks but not much that can be done.

[OcadoSubstitutedMyHummus]

To add though, in my area the faith schools all require a number of years religious attendance. So if you're not a regular church goes in such spots there are no local options at all.

Btw I think local parents here had tried challenging the back footpath point in previous years and got nowhere.

[admission]

I think you need to go and have a very hard careful look at what the admission criteria for the school in question says. If it is based on walking routes then the first thing to check is whether the distance is measured from a datum point on your house to a datum point on the school. That is what it usually is when the distance being measured is straight line distance. However in your case it is quite possible that it is being measured from the datum point of your house or a point in the middle of the road outside your house or something else. When it comes to the school does it say the datum point on the school or does it say the main entrance to the school or does it say the nearest entrance to the school or what. There are a lot of potential answers and you need to be absolutely sure which one.
Then you need to ask the LA for the walking route that they have used for calculating the route and check that it is the same as the one that you would use. From what you have said there is a fair chance that this is not the same. I am going to make an assumption that the LA do not know about the back gate of the school. The first question is whether it is a recognised legal footpath, which you will need to ask the LA about. If it is and the school are "legalising" it by opening and closing it on a daily basis that does in my opinion give you reasonable grounds to appeal. The LA may not want to recognise the footpath but the school certainly is.
However before you get carried away it is not that simple because if the appeal panel come to a decision (or even the LA if they realise a mistake has been made) to accept the back entrance as being legal then what they will need to do is go through the whole process of re-evaluating every bodies calculated distance and it is not just you that gets a shorter distance it is everybody who could realistically use that back gate. You may well be in a situation where 15 of the 30 places offered are now not the nearest and there are then in theory 15 people who have been disadvantaged by the situation. Bottom line unless the school can open a new classroom no appeal panel is going to award 15 places when there are only 30 to start with.
So it is well worth pursuing the situation but you do need to be realistic that it might be for nothing. If you feel I can help in trying to unravel what the absolute admission criteria is,please feel free to PM me with the name of the school and the LA and I will look it up.

[KirbyS]

Thanks again everyone for your advice.
The LA told me to call back 1st week in May to find out about my place on the waiting list, I'll also ask about furthest distances from all my local schools at the same time and how I get on their waiting lists.
Admissions, could you please tell me how I PM you and I'll send over LA and school details.

[admission]

go to one of my posts and click on message poster at far right of the post.