Appeals advice thread

[SauceForTheGander]

TiggyTape suggested a thread for those of us needing advice on the appeals system.

Sorry to those of you disappointed like we are. None of our first 3 choices ...

First challenge is to get DH to remember the password he set on our account.

DH is all for getting a solicitor - is that worth it?

[PanelChair]

Hi.

This is just to second everything that Tiggytape has said.

It is rarely worth spending the money on a solicitor. What are your reasons (beyond a general preference) for wanting a place at one of those three schools? Will they be infant class size appeals?

In previous years, these threads have tended to become rather chaotic as we try to hold several conversations at once with different people about their potential appeals. It might work better if everyone seeking advice started their own thread.

[meditrina]

Could I add that you might see that a grounds for appeal is 'unreasonable descision'. This is a valid grounds even for ICS appeals, but the definition of unreasonable is legalistic here and means really perverse; things like child or witness protection issues.

[SauceForTheGander]

Thanks - we have no sibling at the school but we live 632 metres from the school.

We don't know why we haven't been given a place yet as this is in the letter they send out today (2nd class post).

I've told DH to stop googling solicitors!

We have the appeals form and thinking about what to put.

I was going for the we want our child to go to local school for social and practical reasons. The school we've been offered is a CofE school in a nearby village. We live in a city but close to the outskirts. It is only a ten minute drive (fast road out) but walking is impossible as seriously busy roads and about an hour walk. 30 minute bike ride but too busy road.

[prh47bridge]

Also consider looking at the numbers in other classes in the school. My school has previously been made to accept children on appeal over the ICS because other classes in the school had space. It just meant some mixed age classes.

I'm afraid that doesn't help an appeal. The children admitted on appeal are "excepted" which means they don't count towards the infant class size limit. So, although the school may appear to be over the limit, it isn't and you can't use the fact that children have already been admitted on appeal to help your case. You still have to show that a mistake has been made or the admission authority has acted unreasonably.

I agree with Tiggytape and PanelChair re solicitors. I have come across far too many cases where solicitors (who are not generally experts on school admissions) have given appallingly bad advice and/or have managed to thoroughly antagonise the appeal panel.

[SauceForTheGander]

It seems we're screwed. They have a sibling policy so within catchment is number 3.

The furthest away a child without sibling in the catchment was 606 and we live 632.

Gutted.

[SauceForTheGander]

Tiggy thank you. We're appealing.

That is exactly what happens here. Parents are very open a out it - reception year at state primary and then private schools from year one as saves them £15k.

Also loads of turnover as its a transient population in this city.

[admission]

606 to 632 is not very much in real distance but in school admission terms could be quite a few people on the waiting list. You need to establish where you stand on the waiting list because you could number 1, in which case you have a reasonable chance of success from the waiting list or you could be 35th!
I would recheck exactly what the measuring mechanism is used by the LA. The measurement is always accurate to much less than a metre but it does assume that you are measuring from and to the right place. So is it to the datum point on your house to the datum point on the school or is to the nearest gate or what? I am also assuming here that the distance is straight line distance rather than measured distance by paths - if that is the case then definitely worth checking carefully what has been measured.

[SauceForTheGander]

I got the distance via the LEA website.

Do we ask out place prior to appeal ?

[carrieindex]

Probably a daft question but can you appeal for one of your choices if it was a lower original choice than the school you were offered? I have heard you can appeal for a place at any school and don't really understand that.

[admission]

You can ask the admission office for where you are on the waiting list but it will probably be a couple of weeks before that is drawn up as they will be establishing who is accepting places and who is rejecting places at this moment in time.
You can appeal for any school you want, even ones that were not your original preferences.

[wendycj]

We only got into our fourth choice school (Haringey). Our first choice school (just under 0.3 miles away) has a published admissions number of 56 (28 per class). Am wondering why, in an over-subscribed area they don't have to have a mandatory 30-pupil class limit. Would this give us any better grounds for appeal, as the school hasn't reached the 30 maximum? Also, can you appeal on the way they measure the distance, as the back of the school which is often used as an entrance/exit and backs on to a playground/recreation ground is nearer to us, whereas if you have to walk around this via roads, it's a fair amount longer. Also who administers the waiting lists. Is it the schools themselves or the local authority? Any help and advice gratefully received. I just don't really understand what constitutes grounds for an appeal.

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

We were in a similar position last year. We were 20 metres outside the furthest admitted distance. We were 8th on the waiting list after the dust had settled and all the initial people to decline (e.g. because they had moved or were going private or whatever) had done so. I'm guessing we were another few places down the list before that but the LEA didn't release list places for the first few weeks as we had an opt in system for waiting lists and they couldn't release a list until they knew who would opt in.

Assuming you are an ICS appeal and will be looking at a very high bar for appeal, I just want to warn you. Of course, in other areas you might be first on the list. But I've just an average urban area, not even London and 20m was masses of places on the list.

The good news is that we love the school we did get now!

[PenguinsLoveFishFingers]

Wendy - AFAIK they can measure the distance how they like. What matters is that it is clear and correctly applied. Not liking the way they chose isn't a ground for appeal on its own. Also, bear in mind that changes to measurement method (e.g. where it is found to be unclear) can affect lots of people, so don't necessarily change whether you would get a place or not.

[camtt]

Hi, I am wondering how to get the relevant information to work out whether a mistake may have been made - we are out of catchment but with a sibling at the school. Up to this year, since the school expanded, there have been spaces for out of catchment people. I won't have a very good case (based on my convenience and the fact I would have 3 DCs at 3 different schools and only one driver) on a class size appeal but I would just like to be sure they haven't made a mistake like overlooking the sibling.

[PanelChair]

Wendy - If the PAN is 56 that is potentially very good news, as it looks as if this appeal would not be held under infant class size criteria. As had been said, though, you can query whether the distance between home and school has been measured correctly according to whatever method the LEA has adopted, but you can't base your appeal around arguing for a different method which you think would give the outcome you want. Anyway, most LEAs measure in a straight line from a fixed point at the school to a fixed point on your home, so arguments about walking around the streets between the school's front and back gates would, in that situation, be a red herring.

Camtt - Some basic information about why you didn't get a place should be in the allocation letter, but you should ask the school or the LEA (depending on which is the admissions authority) for more detail, ie which admissions category you were placed in, your home/school distance, the distance at which the last place was awarded in your category etc. You are right that the ease of your school run is not normally the basis of a winnable appeal, especially not if it is an infant class size appeal.

[camtt]

thanks Panelchair. I will see what information I can get then perhaps go on the waiting list rather than appealing if the information doesn't add up to anything helpful.