# Mumsnet Talk

## Times Tabel Year 2, what comes after 2, 5 and 10

(13 Posts)
noramum Tue 07-Jan-14 15:21:01

DD is in Y2 and mastered 2s, 5s, 10 and 11s. She is in the top set and it seems that these numbers are what the teacher deems as the target for Y2.

As DD actually wants to learn I am wondering what the next set would be we could do at home. I thought about 4 and 3.

So, what comes next in your DC's school?

gracegrape Tue 07-Jan-14 15:29:27

3 and 4 would usually be the next tables. Then schools generally teach 6 and 8 as they are double 3 and 4 then 7 and 9.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 07-Jan-14 15:31:06

3 then 4. Then 6 (which is 3 doubled)

noramum Tue 07-Jan-14 15:47:43

Thanks.

Tue 07-Jan-14 19:24:51

Hi -

I'll copy my standard info, which is a bit long-winded, but take from it whatever seems appropriate:

QUOTE:

Practical things are best for grasping number concepts - bricks, Lego, beads, counters, money, shapes, weights, measuring, cooking.

Do adding, taking away, multiplication (repeated addition), division (sharing), using REAL OBJECTS as just 'numbers' can be too abstract for some children.

Number Bonds of Ten forms the basis of much maths work, so try to learn them. Using Lego or something similar, use a LOT of bricks (of just TWO colours, if you have enough) lay them out so the pattern can be seen of one colour INCREASING while the other colour DECREASES. Lay them down, or build up like steps.

So:

ten of one colour none of other
nine of one colour one of other
eight of one colour two of other
seven of one colour three of other

etc, etc

then of course, the sides are equal at 5 and 5; after which the colours 'swap over' as to increasing/decreasing.

To learn TABLES, do them in groups that have a relationship, thus:

x2, x4, x8

x3, x6, x12

5 and 10 are easy

7 and 9 are rather harder.

Starting with TWO times TABLE, I always say: "Imagine the class is lining up in pairs; each child will have a partner, if there is an EVEN number in the class. If one child is left without a partner, then the number is ODD, because an odd one is left out."

Use Lego bricks again, lay them out in a column of 2 wide to learn 2x table. Go half way down the column, and move half the bricks up, so that now the column is 4 bricks wide. That gives the start of 4x table.

Then do similar things with 3x and 6x.

With 5x, try and count in 'fives', and notice the relationship with 'ten' - they will alternate, ending in 5 then 10.

It is important to try and UNDERSTAND the relationships between numbers, and not just learn them 'by rote'.

I am sorry it seems complicated trying to explain these concepts, but using Lego or counters should make understanding easier.

An inexpensive solar powered calculator (no battery to run out!) can help learn tables by 'repeated addition'. So: enter 2+2 and press = to give 4. KEEP PRESSING = and it should add on 2 each time, giving 2 times table.

There are good web sites, which can be fun to use :

www.ictgames.com/

www.resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/index.html

UNQUOTE

[I think we may have 'met' before on some thread, don't know what or when though.]

Tue 07-Jan-14 19:33:37

My dd is also yr2, she has done 2's, 5's, 10's and just completed 3's this week. She will how move on to 4's. To move on to the next they have to be able to rote chant at a decent pace and answer them randomly to make sure they've not just learnt it parrot fashion.

noramum Tue 07-Jan-14 20:22:34

Ferguson: thanks. I think DD got the concept but Lego is useful general. The school uses ICT Games a lot for maths, just a shame you can't use it on a tablet.

We did a lot of mental recall during the Christmas holidays, so we think she is fit and can go on. She plays a game called Squebbles on the ipad a lot
www.keystagefun.co.uk/squeebles-times-tables-2.html

PastSellByDate Thu 09-Jan-14 10:13:42

Hi NoraMum:

2, 5, & 10 times tables are the statutory curriculum for Y2 - and unfortunately at our school they stop there.

So we went off plan.

My input to you about what next is to think about times table families.

So basically learning x2 is teaching you doubling. Once you know how to double x4, x8 are pretty straightforward.

so 2 x 4 is basically 2 x 2 = 4 and double again 4 x 2 = 8

and 2 x 8 is basically 2 x 2 = 4 and double 4 x 2 = 8 and double again 8 x 2 = 16.

times 3 has to be learned. Options include using your hand calculators - so the knuckles on each finger & the base of thumb and two knuckles on thumbs - so each digit has 3 places.

1 x 3 - hold up one finger and count knuckles - 1-2-3 - so 1 x 3 = 3

2 x 3 - hold up two fingers and count knuckles - 1-2-3- 4-5-6 - so 2 x 3 = 6.

That will get you to 10 x 3.

11s can be thought of as 10 x 3 + 1 x 3 = 30 + 3 = 33 and then you can point out the great 11 pattern -

11 x 1 = 11
11 x 2 = 22
11 x 3 = 33
11 x 4 = 44 and so on.

12 x 3 - can be thought of as 10 x 3 + 2 x 3 or 30 + 6 = 36.

------------

Now once you know your 3s you can explore more of the 3 family: 3, 6, 9 and 12.

6 is straightforward - just doubling your 3s table

so 2 x 6 is the same as 2 x 3 = 6 and double once = 6 x 2 = 12

same principle applies for 12 - 12 is just a doubling of the 6s table or two doublings of the 3 table:

so if you know your 6s - 12s is just a doubling of these

3 x 12 is the same thing as 3 x 6 = 18 then doubling it 18 x 2 = 36

You can also consider tripling.

so if you know your 4s table - tripling the answer (4 x 3) give you your 12s tables

so 4 x 5 = 20 and if you triple the answer 20 x 3 = 60 = 12 x 5

---------------

So that leaves 9

Well you can play with tripling or you can just explore patterns in the 9s times table:

9 x 1 = 09
9 x 2 = 18
9 x 3 = 27
9 x 4 = 36
9 x 5 = 45
9 x 6 = 54
9 x 7 = 63
9 x 8 = 72
9 x 9 = 81
9 x 10 = 90

Up to 10 there is a definite pattern. Whatever you are multiplying 9 by - the answer starts one less and the second digit can be worked out by figuring out what + first number = 9.

So for 9 x 4 - one less than 4 is 3 (the first digit). What plus 3 = 9? 6 (the second digit) - so 9 x 4 = 36.

You can also use a hand calculator. Turn both hands palms upwards with each thumb at each side. Starting on the left hand number each digit - thumb = 1, index finger = 2, middle finger = 3 and so on to the right thumb = 10. Now let's try 4 x 9.

Fold over the 4th finger (your left ring finger). You'll see you have 3 fingers to the left of this folded finger (the tens digit) and 6 fingers to the right (the units digit) - so your hand calculator says 4 x 9 = 36.

After 10 the pattern shown above breaks down - but the sum of the answer always works out to 9.

11 x 9 = 99 (9 + 9 = 18 and 1 + 8 = 9)
12 x 9 = 108 (1 + 0 + 8 = 9)

So at this point with doubling, learning x 3 and 9s patterns you know

(0 and 1 - worth reviewing as often schools really don't formally teach this - so anything x 0 is 0. 1,999,456,777 x 0 = 0. and anything x 1 is itself - think of one as a big mirror).

so in theory with this you'll know 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12.

That leaves 11 and 7.

Let's start with 11 because it's just fun.

we know 1 x 1 = 1, 2 x 1 = 2, etc... and 11 works a lot like it.

11 x 1 = 11
11 x 2 = 22
11 x 3 = 33
and so on up to
11 x 9 = 99

(so up to 9 you simply write the number you're multiplying 11 by down 2 times - in tens and units columns).

beyond 9 there is a trick.

because we already know our tens - you'll know 10 x 11 is 110 (it can be thought of as shifting the 11 over one column or tacking the 0 from the ten on the end of the 11 - shifting column method is now preferred I think).

let's try 11 x 11

the trick works like this take first and second digit separate them and the middle digit is both digits added together...

so 11 x 11 = 1 - (1 + 1) - 1 = 121

15 x 11 = 1 - (1+5) - 5 = 165

Can be tricky if the middle number is >9 but just carry the number to the first digit:

so 38 x 11 = 3 - (3+8) - 8 = 3 - (11) - 8 = (3+1) - 1 - 8 = 418

-----------

right that's 11 done with.

That leaves 7.

Well if we know all tables 0 - 6 and 8 - 12 in fact we know the 7s table for these because it's in there anyway. 0 x 7 = 0, 1 x 7 = 7, 2 x 7 = 14 and so on.

So in fact we just need to know 7 x 7 = 49.

There's no trick but I find it easier to think of it as a little swine which rhymes with 49.

Finally my advice is search out some of the free multiplication games out there - Woodlands junior School maths zone is a good starting point - but there's multiplication.com/ mangha high/ education city (which some school subscribe to), BBC bitesize KS1 etc... Video games are a lot of fun and make the practicing seem like playing for children.

HTH

PastSellByDate Thu 09-Jan-14 10:16:30

Forgot to say with x12 table - it sometimes is easier to think of it as x10 fact + x 2 fact.

so 9 x 12 is the same as (9 x 10) + (9 x 2) = 90 + 18 = 108

DD2 finds it easiest to think about it this way.

SwimmingMom Mon 20-Jan-14 11:50:56

My DD is currently in Y2.

After 2, 5, 10, 11 we've gone to 3, 9, 4 & trying 6 now.

With 9 try teaching
6 x 9 = (6 x 10) - 6.

This is conceptually easy & gives them a HUGE boost of confidence.

Mon 20-Jan-14 11:58:17

The order I like is 10,5,2,4 as you can see how 5 links into 10 and 4's are double 2's. Local schools here then seem to wander of to 3x but logically 8x follows better.

Always worth pointing out that once they know 3x4 they also know 4x3. Keep reinforcing that.

Huitre Mon 20-Jan-14 12:43:54

DD also in Y2. She has done 2,5, 10 and 3 and is currently learning 4. I say learning. She is mostly refusing to learn it on the grounds that it is boring, which I do have some sympathy for, really.

noramum Mon 20-Jan-14 12:56:15

It starts to work quite well now at home. So far we are concentrating on 3 and 4.

DD has a blackboard easel where we write a couple of questions every couple of days, depending how fast she wants to solve them. She now learned that 4 is twice the 2s.

She is also ok with 11, quite easy.

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