Has this school trip broke any regulations/laws?

(544 Posts)
emma16 Sun 17-Nov-13 08:31:05

I would appreciate some help here please, my 5 year old daughter went on a trip with 2 other classes from her school on Friday to a wood which I was initially concerned about as we go there ourselves on a Sunday etc for walks & have never seen any facilities there.
I raised my concerns with her teacher the week before they were due to go, to which she hardly knew anything of the trip & when i arrived at home time another teacher i know told me that she'd been there & there were facilities, and 'as if' they'd take 3 classes of kids somewhere where there wasnt!
I wasn't pretty hot about this trip seeing as they've waited until the middle of November to do it, and as any genuinely concerned parent, I was worried about how cold my daughter would be seeing as they were leaving just after 9am & not returning to school until 3.15pm.

Off she went anyway, but when my husband picked her up from the woods car park the first thing she said to him was 'im so thirst daddy & my head really hurts'. He brought her home & we found out that they had not taken their water bottle's with them & she'd had nothing to drink whatsoever all day, despite being active for 5 hours walking & doing activities.
We also found out that there were no toilets provided & her & 3 of her friends were taken by some assistant she doesn't know to wee behind a tree out in a public wood!!!
She also told us, when questioned by us, they never went in any buildings & were outside all day. They'd sat on little stools under a sheet to eat their pack lunchs.

Now some of you on here will think i'm over reacting no doubt & appreciate it if all you want to say is a snide comment about my over bearing parenting, but, in my opinion i feel they have done wrong.
I have made several enquiries with other people & as far as they know, there are no facilities whatsoever up at this wood, which my husband & I are going to visit this morning to find the country ranger & ask him himself.

If there aren't this means that no risk assessment could have been carried out, those teachers lied to my face after voicing my concerns, they let my daughter go without any fluids for over 5 hours despite being active & came home ill & with a headache, they let some stranger to her pull her pants down in a public wood to wee, and they gave them no form of shelter/heating for even a short period of time just to warm them up before going back out again.
Is any of this ok, does anyone with some knowledge actually know? From a parents point of view there's all sorts wrong with it. If there were facilities why did they choose not to use them?

Why are you planning on talking to the park ranger?
I am genuinely puzzled - are you trying to 'catch the school out' at a 'lie' or something??

It really sounds like your relationship with the school is pretty damaged...
I was not aware of previous threads about this btw.

todaysdate Sun 17-Nov-13 09:01:04

I think that there may be an issue if a child needed a poo.
I'm sick and tired of dog poo and find human poo and tissue in the woods revolting.

And how exactly did they wash their hands before eating?

I think the kids should be out and about, most definitely. But I wonder if the trip should have been a half day trip.

clam Sun 17-Nov-13 09:01:23

"If there aren't this means that no risk assessment could have been carried out"
Why does it mean this? hmm
Have you seriously got nothing better to do on your Sunday morning than hunt down a ranger to quiz him on what may or may not have gone on a trip last week?

vestandknickers Sun 17-Nov-13 09:03:00

TAs have seen bare bums before. It is part of their job and children aren't bothered unless you get all fussy about it and make it an issue for them. If your daughter really gets cold so easily then you should have raised this with the teachers and provided a doctors letter. It really isn't that cold at the moment and unless your daughter has some medical condition that makes her particulalry vulnerable to the cold, the teachers would have no reason to think she couldn't cope with being outside for a day. The drink thing sounds a bit confused. Maybe your DD forgot and was too afraid to tell or maybe she's got it a bit wrong when she's told you. Five year olds are not the most reliable! I really think you ened to let this go.

Twirlychair Sun 17-Nov-13 09:03:26

You should have made sure she was wrapped up warm. My dd still wears a ski suit when it's really cold and she's roasted when the rest of us are freezing.

Didn't she have a drink in her packed lunch? Mine always do when they go on a trip like that they've to bring all chuckable stuff in a plastic bag and the rubbish is disposed of when they go home.

You're totally over reacting about the exposing her bare naked foo. Seriously? She pulled her pants down and peed in the woods. The same assistant would have to help her in school if she had a poonami or a flood and needed changed. Why is it an issue because it's outside?

clam Sun 17-Nov-13 09:03:36

Why did you not give her a drink in her packed lunch?

ICameOnTheJitney Sun 17-Nov-13 09:04:00

OP you have to face facts....you DO come across as over anxious...not to mention silly. Why on earth did you not pack a drink in her packed lunch? Kids of this age regularly spend whole days outdoors....it's GOOD for them and most enjoy it.

Is it possible your DD has picked up on your general anxiety? It sounds like you quizzed her too much anyway.

dawntigga Sun 17-Nov-13 09:05:14

Dear goddess, you were told ywbu on your last thread and again here. The majority opinion is you were being unreasonable then and now. If you really want people to just agree with you there are other places that will do that.

WandersOffToDoOtherStuffTiggaxx

Again, did she not have a drink in her packed lunch?

Because if there was a drink in her lunch and they sat down to eat lunch it is a bit odd that she didnt drink anything all day.

iwantanafternoonnap Sun 17-Nov-13 09:06:31

The being outside all day fine and I am sure they were running about keeping warm.

The toilets situation fine for DS but seeing as he sometimes needs a poo not so fine there was no access to toilets. We go camping/walking quite a lot and so he is used to wee'ing up against trees etc but some kids aren't and would really not have liked to wee in front of their friends like.

The lack of water I really wouldn't be happy about and that needs to get checked out. Used to be in the forces and when in training, regardless of what it was, we had to have water bottles and thats as adults. No excuse for teachers not to check that before leaving.

I'm a pretty lax parent and not fussed by DS being outside, getting wet etc but this trip doesn't sound good. Did your daughter have a good time though?

how did they wipe bottoms and wash hands if there were no facilities. I wouldnt have been happy either.

Pooka Sun 17-Nov-13 09:07:09

So if the "stranger" needed to help your dd in a school loo setting would you feel the same as in this case, in the woods?

This is not a strange dog walker co-opted in for the job.

It's a CRB checked school employee. The fact that the peeing was done in the woods rather than in the school loo is irrelevant surely?

I suspect that when you ask the school there may be clarifications that would make sense. For example, I would suspect tht the impromptu pee happened as it did because they were at that time some distance from the site loos, but that if the dcs had needed a pee when they were near the site loos, they would have been used instead.

I expect the school will be able to clarify the drinks situation too. You haven't said whether the children had drinks in their packed lunches.

The going inside to warm their bones is not really necessary. Harder on the system to be cold/warm up and then get cold again. They should be dressed cosily and active. You said in your op that the problem with the lack of drink was exacerbated by the children being active, walking and doing activities for 5 hours so it sounds like they were moving around a lot, which would help keep them warm. It wasn't that cold on Friday.

clam Sun 17-Nov-13 09:07:49

"My daughter is very precious to us" Do you think ours aren't then, because we think you might be over-reacting a tad?

ICameOnTheJitney Sun 17-Nov-13 09:07:49

Yes the only real issue here is the lack of toilets....it's not ideal or sensible. But everything else...nothing to worry about.

Twirlychair Sun 17-Nov-13 09:07:52

Did you get a consent form for the trip to sign before they went?

emma16 Sun 17-Nov-13 09:08:19

I haven't an issue with her being outside all day doing activities, yeah i was a little concerned about it being too cold to be out all day i admit but i did wrap her up warm, tights, trousers over the top, welly socks, thermal long sleeve top, vest, jumper & waterproof winter coat etc..and to be honest it made a change to her being stuck in a stuffy classroom where they never open a window!
Don't get me wrong my husband & I are big fan's of the kids being outside,they've grown up being took on walks all over by us, but yes i was worried about her being out all day as it wasn't the warmest day.

The letter said nothing about providing a different drink in her pack lunch, she took her water bottle that she takes every day to school which i assumed would be going along with them all as every child took theirs, but according to her they weren't allowed a drink before as 'there isn't any time we need to get on the bus' and they weren't taken to the site either. If i'd known this i would have provided a smaller bottle or capri sun of some sorts to go in her pack lunch.

Ok ok i maybe slightly over reacting but like i said in my last post, it's more because i feel like i've been lied to when i voiced my concerns initially. Had they have said no there are no facilities, yes they'll be peeing behind a tree, yes they'll be sat outside under a sheet to eat their pack lunch, then id have known & this wouldn't be an issue. It's the fact they said there were toilets, there was somewhere indoors for them to eat etc, and now looks like they just lied to shut me up.
And obviously nobody on here has an issue with some stranger seeing their little girls bare naked foo!! I know i have lol!

Lottiedoubtie Sun 17-Nov-13 09:09:12

I am shock at your reaction to the weeing in the woods thing... Three classes of five year olds? So 90 children? So easily 120 wees during the day, they MUST have had a system for sorting out the toileting.

I see no issue with a quick wee behind a tree for a five year old. And are you suggesting the teaching assistant got something innapropriate out of it? because if you are call the police not us. If not, I'm baffled as to what the issue is.

Twirlychair Sun 17-Nov-13 09:10:46

It wasn't some stranger. It was a fully crb checked assistant from the school.

I'll bet my last pound the peeing up a tree happened because she needed a pee far from the loos. Would you rather she had been allowed to wet herself?

Packed lunch for a trip always includes a drink, surely? If they're going away all day you'd know they need a drink to take with them?

My sympathy is evaporating I'm afraid.

Mckayz Sun 17-Nov-13 09:12:45

Your 'sister' posted about this the other day and you were told then that you were being overly precious. I do not see the need for this thread at all.

Wrap your daughter up warm or move to a hot country.

And I very much doubt any strangers saw your daughters naked foo.

Bloody hate the word foo.

vestandknickers Sun 17-Nov-13 09:14:06

No, it isn't a problem for a five year old to be out all day in November.

Yes, you should have put a drink in her lunchbox.

No, it is not a problem for a CRB check adult to help a child to go to the toilet. Whether that is inside or outside is not relevant.

Yes you are massively over reacting.

Hope that helps!

FannyFifer Sun 17-Nov-13 09:14:18

But if she was going on a school trip why would the water bottle be taken out her bag and left in class in first place?
DS has a water bottle for in class but also has a drink in his packed lunch, that's the norm.

clam Sun 17-Nov-13 09:14:54

All the children in my school bring water bottles to school, which are kept by the sink in the classroom. However, those who bring packed lunches also bring a separate drink for their lunch. You made an assumption there that is not really the school's fault.

"i feel like i've been lied to" It may not have been a lie. There may have been loos but, as someone has just suggested, a distance away from where they were at the time, and a quick wee behind a tree was used in "emergencies."

IHadADreamThatWasNotAllADream Sun 17-Nov-13 09:15:20

I see why your attitude is getting you a bit of a kicking, and you're being generally precious about being outside in the fresh autumn air and TAs seeing bare bottoms.

However I do think that taking a bunch of 5 year olds to a place with no toilets for the day is an error - did they bring a shovel to bury any poo? Were there any hand washing facilities? Some children simply won't go behind a bush, and will end up wetting themselves.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sun 17-Nov-13 09:15:21

Oh dear me.

So the drink thing wasnt the school refusing to let them drink, it was you not providing a drink?

The being outside all day thing is a good thing for children and you sound like you wrapped her up very well, do no drama there.

Weeing outside- ok not ideal. But not the end of the world to be fair.

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