A random question for any teachers out there...

(25 Posts)
sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 19:09:42

Does your school document a Dc's behavior? (obviously not minor). For example if a Dc hurt another child during break time which was reported back to the headteacher and the consequence was to keep the Dc in at lunch would it be documented somewhere? or is it just a case of this is what you will do end of.

Just curious...as always. smile

spanieleyes Sun 27-Oct-13 19:18:17

I keep a class log of any incidents that require-according to the school behaviour policy- anything more than a raised eyebrow, stern look or verbal warning. The next "step" after a verbal warning is 5 minutes missed break, during which time the child concerned has to write out the reasons why they are missing break ( in their own words) and this is then attached to the correct date in my behaviour log-a large diary. I also add my version of events-just in case there is a discrepancy!! If the child misses all of break ( for more serious behaviour) three times in a term, the reports are forwarded to the Head. In fact, the act of getting the "Black Book" out is usually enough to stop most children misbehaving grin

Wellthen Sun 27-Oct-13 19:24:30

The more serious incidents are logged and most class teachers have a record of who is on the behaviour management system week by week but these aren't kept officially. We also have a system of a certain number of logged behaviours and your parents are called in.

sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 19:28:28

Thanks spanieleyes it's good that you write your version too, sometimes Dc's versions can get a little....confusing smile. What happens to your log? Do you save/bin at the end of the year?

spanieleyes Sun 27-Oct-13 19:33:09

I keep it for a further year, just in case!

almapudden Sun 27-Oct-13 19:33:33

Yes, any 'serious' incidents (basically anything that warrants contacting the parents) are logged on a central database and all staff are notified.

sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 19:37:28

Thanks Wellthen I take it there is always some form of documentation to run alongside the behaviour policy then, especially for serious behaviour.

What about work refusal?, I have a feeling this would be classed as 'serious behaviour'?

MidniteScribbler Sun 27-Oct-13 19:41:23

We have a database where all serious incidents are recorded. It stays in the system permanently. Children's files are archived when they leave the school.

I also keep a log of all general going ons. I sit down and night and make notes in my computer file. It includes good and bad behaviour, anything of note about their learning, general demeanor etc. It's handy to refer back to if you start to see a pattern of behaviour emerge, or for discussions with parents.

PandaNot Sun 27-Oct-13 19:55:31

At the primary schools I work in it is all done very informally. Details are kept of more serious incidents but refusing to work would not be recorded unless is was part of a bigger issue with a particular child. In comps they tend to have very, very detailed recording systems where every transgression against the behaviour code is logged.

Noggie Sun 27-Oct-13 20:00:49

At secondary school all concerns/incidents/important phone calls etc are logged on specific , confidential part of school system. Would be surprised if primary schools weren't required to keep some kind of formal record of serious concerns etc?

sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 20:23:30

Thanks for the replies...can you tell I don't have anything better to do this evening smile

That's good Midnite that you can use your info to see patterns.

Now for another question...without trying to cause any controversy I'd really like your input...what if you had a Dc in your class who struggles with everyday social interactions? Uses inappropriate facial expressions (may smile/frown etc at the wrong time), Can come across as being rude (unintentionally), can't pick up on body language/facial expressions and the tone of voice used by the CT is either happy or cross with no inbetween causing anxious behaviour which in return causes problems such as refusal to work, running from the classroom, shouting out, pushing other pupils. What happens then? It's catch 22 really isn't it in one respect the DC can not physically help themselves, but on the other hand is not conforming to the behaviour policy. How would your school deal with this situation?

spanieleyes Sun 27-Oct-13 20:38:52

In my school, the child in question would have a behaviour management plan, which details triggers, topography of behaviour, de-escalation strategies, preventative actions, praise points, handling strategies ( if needed) follow up debriefing process ( ie who he might discuss the problem with). Whilst this would not excuse any behaviour, it might alleviate/mitigate any problems. All children however are expected to follow the school behaviour policy.

sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 20:48:07

Understandable that all children are expected to follow the behaviour policy, by the sounds of it your school go very indepth to help the child and all others involved before turning to the policy. Is the behaviour management system something which runs along side an IEP or is it what is included on the IEP?

sugaplumfurry Sun 27-Oct-13 20:49:54

*plan

spanieleyes Sun 27-Oct-13 20:55:49

It can run alongside, although not all children with a BMP would have an IEP.
I have first hand experience of a BMP as my son ( who was also educated at the school I teach at) had one. He has Asperger's and his social skills are "limited" to say the least! He also had anger management issues and could, at times, lash out. His BMP at least gave the teachers some ideas about what could be done to control a situation ( in his case, go to the library and read a book!) before it got to the point where the behaviour policy was needed!

PandaNot Mon 28-Oct-13 10:00:10

In the case you outlined I would expect the school to be more concerned about the emotional well-being of the child and how they could help him to cope with things than worrying about not conforming with the schools behaviour policy. They should have a positive behaviour management plan which may be in addition to an iep. For what it's worth there are many children I work with across a number of schools who don't have to 'conform' to the schools behaviour policy. It is adapted to suit their needs.

sugaplumfurry Tue 29-Oct-13 10:44:16

spanieleyes Thanks. My Ds has Asperger's too that's why I was curious TBH our Ds is 'shouty' so for him to get the point that he lashes out (which he has many times at school, never at home or anywhere else) he is under huge amounts of stress IMO. The school don't seem to be using any kind of BMP. The reason I suspect this is that at times when appropriate strategies could easily avoid unwanted behaviour are instead being relayed to me by CT's as general bad behaviour resulting in loss of break/lunchtime, working through additional lessons to complete work as per the behaviour policy.

I did suggest doing something similar to what you said e.g. triggers, behaviour demonstrated etc a while back but the CT was disgusted and basically said no. This could of been helpful because we could of found out the trigger which could of been anything from avoiding a school assembly to not understanding a piece of work, even something at home!. His IEP only seems to focus on completing classwork in an acceptable time taking into consideration his literal thinking style, and over-learning maths and spelling in small groups which also targets social skills.

Would SULP being used in the classroom be seen as a BMP?

PandaNot I have tried to point this out to the school, that there is something underpinning e.g. sensory, social confusion causing anxiety etc. but this doesn't seem to make a difference they continue to use the schools behaviour policy. He has even mentioned sitting in a 'meeting' (to complete his work, he was 6 1/2 at the time) with his previous CT and HT while they talked about work getting harder once a child enters KS2 confused.

All in all I wanted to know if the school will have documented 'unacceptable' behaviour somewhere which an outside professional coming in to observe would have assess to as part of their information gathering?. As it stands every time we have had an appointment outside of school (we have attended in a clinic etc) the professionals have always drawn attention to how relaxed, pleasant, and compliant Ds is during the appointment yet if you read Ds's end of year reports there are comments such as "xxxx can be a very pleasant child at times when he chooses to show this side of his character" which to me screams out something isn't right!

PandaNot Tue 29-Oct-13 19:08:00

Don't you have access to professionals who can visit your ds in school? This is my job. I work for the ASD county team as an advisory teacher and my role is to do exactly what you want a professional to do - look at how your child is functioning in the classroom and school and help school staff to look at the whole picture, not just the academic. I would also be pointing out that the school is not currently meeting it's obligations under equality legislation. They are not making reasonable adjustments to make sure he can access the behaviour policy. These might include all the proactive strategies. It might involve him having an entirely different behaviour policy altogether.

sugaplumfurry Tue 29-Oct-13 20:13:39

Hi PandaNot there have been many professionals come in, and make suggestions inc advisory team - in fact I once went in for a meeting with the new SENCO when DS's behaviour had hit rock bottom at school and I repeated the suggestions which the advisory teacher had given to the CT as we had been using some of them at home for a while without even realizing it, a couple of days later I was brought back in for another meeting so the CT could tell me that he was only there for my DS's education so would not be using my suggestions with HT present shock.

DS is due a school observation from the OT, I'm hoping she will see the descrepency between how he was at the clinic and if she has assess to this information (if there is any) and realize that there is need for more support. The issue we have is that "we will not treat youngsuga any different than anyone else" from every CT he has had which I read as reasonable adjustments to a minimum, so nothing which would be directly for my Ds's benefit IYSWIM.

Take for instance....We are told a small literacy group has been set up especially for our Ds yet on the school website it states that the school are using additional funding to raise attainment for ALL KS2 boys writing/literacy by employing another teacher (which is fair enough), even though this has helped DS a little it is more of a whole school support rather than specific support for my DS which is resulting in many days when he isn't completing work...and being punished for it.

PandaNot Tue 29-Oct-13 20:51:23

I would be escalating this tbh, hopefully with the support of some of the professionals who work for the local authority, like the EP and advisory teacher, who must be able to see that school are not fulfilling their duties. Get in touch with whoever is in charge of SEND in the education services and explain that school are refusing to put any appropriate strategies in place to support your child. Put it all in writing and copied to the head teacher. It sounds like they've had plenty of chances to get it right and they've refused.

sugaplumfurry Tue 29-Oct-13 21:54:58

Well the OT is going to contact previous professionals who have been in to get info of what suggestions have already been made. So far it has taken two observations by two professionals for various reasons over a period of 14 months who both suggested visual timers, work station, and minimal visual stimulation in classroom before he was provided a table and I noticed during parents evening that the classroom he is in isn't as cluttered as the one prior. They also tried a timer but stopped because DS became obsessed with time itself, which doesn't make sense we use timers at home which really help. Actually thinking about it...all of these changes were made after I applied for a Statutory assessment. hmm

Hopefully the OT will put info in her report which will show if they have taken note of previous suggestions or not then I will go from there. Just doesn't seem right that he is being punished if they refuse to acknowledge him as different when he so clearly is.

Anyways thanks everyone for the info it has been very helpful, sorry for going off from the original question! smile

morethanpotatoprints Tue 29-Oct-13 22:18:58

Hello OP.
I have very little knowledge of this from a professionals pov, but my son went all through school without a diagnosis of Aspergers without help from anybody.
I really don't want to upset you but speed is of the essence here.
His life was made miserable, nobody understood him and nobody listened to us, his parents.
He was naughty, that's it, and also subjected to a very strict behaviour policy. !0am every morning I could set my watch to a call from school. Whilst it was little stuff, it was breaking their behaviour policy and that's all they were interested in.
I so wish now I had taken him out of the schools but I didn't. I understand you probably want to keep him within the system but please don't let the professionals drag this on for too long. It must be getting him down.

sugaplumfurry Tue 29-Oct-13 23:06:21

Sorry to hear that morethan how awful for you both.

Believe it or not there have been improvements. My DS wanted to kill himself in YR2 because he couldn't get anything right, and life would be better for everyone if he wasn't here. He is such a happy child for him to get like that everything was obviously too much. It wasn't until I had a breakdown broke my heart to the EP trying to stress the differences in the little boy we had at home that we slowly started to see the changes. I'm pretty sure that what is being done now is because of her listening and seeing for herself...sadly she isn't there all of the time and even though we suggest they contact her if they ring us they never do...so I usually end up filling her in on stuff when she rings me after reviewing my Ds's 'case'.

OT wanted to go in and observe the week following DS's appointment but he is off school so she couldn't.

I just can't prove anything if I don't have sufficient evidence, I have also looked into home educating but at the moment my DH isn't on side...but that's another thread entirely smile

simpson Tue 29-Oct-13 23:07:49

In the school I volunteer in (not my DC school) it is reported.

For a serious incident ie a child punched another child at playtime, they get a "bad behaviour slip" it is then up to the class teacher to find out what happened ie was the child provoked.

If there is a reason for a child punching another ie they were punched first but not seen then the "bad behaviour" slip can be appealed.

At pick up time, the parent/carer is told of the "bad behaviour" slip and they are also recorded in their end of year report.

In the school my DC go to, there is a section especially for "playground issues" where behaviour (bad) is mentioned in a general way.

zingally Thu 31-Oct-13 18:37:37

In my past year one class, I kept a "behaviour log". And yes, any more serious behaviour issues are written up in there. It is, however, used more by senior management to monitor behaviour across the school than it is to track the behaviour of any one pupil.

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