Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

(1003 Posts)
Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 14:05:51

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 19:54:49

I know there have been arguments about the 1:1 issue recently, but I totally agree with WM's post about using professional judgement as to whether a child should tackle something independently, while (obviously) being monitored and given appropriate work.

Particularly in year 6, one of the things we think about is transition and the ability to tackle tasks alone. Of course, there are children who quite simply need 1:1 full time supervision, but IMO there are certainly statemented children who benefit from some time to approach a task on their own.

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 19:55:20

Purple that is not what is happening everywhere, if you read the MN thread in full...

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 19:57:08

GetStuffezed If support has changed shouldn't the Statement be changed to reflect this? Especially if the change in support has going on for some years. Are parents informed?

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 19:57:27

And actually, I believe that being observed from a distance IS an effective form of support for a child, as and when needed.

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 19:58:05

Is the TA observing or helping others?

WorriedMouse Tue 24-Sep-13 19:58:35

I'm not saying that it's every day or even every week but occasionally, in the right circumstances, I believe some children should be able to work independently of an adult. Many of my statemented children have IEP targets to rely less on adult support.

Also, I work with a different group each lesson, and when I work with the statemented child's group I may ask the TA to support another group. The child is being supported, guided and assessed by me and I think it's unfair to leave the other 26 children unattended while the 4 I'm working with have me and a TA.

Saying that there are some circumstances where I would never want the TA to leave a child's side.

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 19:58:57

There are statement reviews where the outcome may be that support changes, but if I'm working with a statemented child and think "hang on, he's really got this" I think it's entirely the right thing to say "Right, X, I'm off to see how these others are doing - reckon you could get to number 3 by the time I get back?"

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 19:59:21

If the TA is mainly observing as a form of 'support' should this not be recorded and reported at the Annual Review?

mrz Tue 24-Sep-13 19:59:43

Long thread resurrected by posters on TES (and not all are teachers) numerous times over four years

hazeyjane Tue 24-Sep-13 19:59:43

A new one - NGM - No Grey Matter. Sums up most SEN kids in a more succinct and accurate way.

I don't find that particularly tongue in cheek, more downright offensive!

Sorry, I thought that WorriedMouse saying that a child needed 'breathing space from adult support' meant that the child was left without they had no adult support.

Wellthen Tue 24-Sep-13 20:00:13

Regards what is it on the TES thread that you object to? Teachers who do not meet the needs of statemented children are few and far between. Im interested to find out what else you are objecting to.

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 20:00:23

Many of my statemented children have IEP targets to rely less on adult support
Ditto. Every single one of my IEPs has this as a target.

spanieleyes Tue 24-Sep-13 20:00:34

If a statemented child has a target of "working independently" there is a point of view that having a TA glued to the child's side makes this impossible to achieve. If a statemented child has a target to " develop social skills in a paired situation" there is a possibility that having two TA's in the pair-one to lead the activity and one to support the statemented child- might be defeating the object of the activity.
I have a child in my Year 6 class with a statement. He will be going onto a Special school in September next year-where he will be in a small class but with no one to one. His targets this year are to develop his coping strategies WITHOUT TA support, not possible if his 1:1 is a permanent fixture at his side so AT TIMES, she will work with other children in his group. Technically I am breaking the 1;1 rules whilst trying to meet the targets set for him.

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 20:02:11

If the TA is mainly observing as a form of 'support' should this not be recorded and reported at the Annual Review?
I certainly didn't suggest this was her "main" form of support, as you well know! Observation of a statemented child working alone IS a valid form of support, however. CLEARLY not the main form, however.

GetStuffezd Tue 24-Sep-13 20:03:24

Ignore the superfluous "however."
Sigh

spanieleyes Tue 24-Sep-13 20:03:29

And as I have 3 statemented children in my class, each with 1;1 support, there would be times when there was more support than children!

jellycake Tue 24-Sep-13 20:03:42

Tbh had never seen that TES thread before and, as a teacher, I was horrified by it. If any of those teachers were in my school, they would be identified as having issues and would have the SLT on their backs very quickly.
As a school, we work really hard to ensure that assessment judgements are honest reflections of what a child is capable of and we have long discussions deciding sub-levels.
I agree with Worried that sometimes a child with a statement does not need or want constant 1-1 with an adult (again depending on the circumstances). I would put the child with some other children who require support or rotate the adult so that they work with other children but come back to check up and support their child. Can you imagine how it must feel to constantly have an adult at your side? Part of our job is to get them ready for their next stage of education and the children have to develop some independence in their learning.

Wellthen Tue 24-Sep-13 20:03:52

It also depends on what the statement is for. You are speaking about statements as if they specifiy that the TA sit with the child for all of their hours. I have had a few children with statements that say the support is their for the child's safety for medical or behaviour reasons. As long as the adult is in the room, they can be doing whatever the teacher directs.

Equally I have seen many statements which specify that the child should be independent where appropriate. A statement for communication for example my only require support during the input to understand what they need to do. The task itself should be independent unless the teacher has specified adult support.

WorriedMouse Tue 24-Sep-13 20:04:48

In response to the speaking and listening stuff, you really need to speak to the school. We use video evidence for assessments so there might be evidence to back this up.

Of course, APP can be subjective. And at what point do I say, "yes, he can do that" is it when he can do it with a TA, or when he can do it once independently, or is it when he can do it the next day, or when he can apply the concept when working on something else? It's hard and there are no rules and every school will do it differently. We are very open and will talk over the phone or in person about any concerns.

cranberryorange Tue 24-Sep-13 20:33:52

How heart warming to see the kids with SEN like my Ds referred to as 'tards' by so called professionals.

It seems some of these attitudes are very common because i'm that parent who is constantly on the receiving end of the rolling eyes and huffing and puffing if i dare to ask for evidence of the IEP targets being achieved when the teacher is finally forced into a review that they really cant be arsed withsad

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 20:48:35

Wellthen There is lots.

Making APP assessments up, the descriptions of some of the children, the assumptions regarding how well the children have achieved learning outcomes, the attitudes towards inclusions, the attitudes towards parents, the ignoring IEPs. You're not telling me you agree with the majority of what is on there?

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 20:49:27

^ typo that should be 'inclusion'

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 20:52:54

I agree that 1 to 1 support need not be continuous but what is happening in practise should be reported accurately at the Annual Review and the Statement amended to keep it up to date. Otherwise a child's additional need is being distorted.

MiaowTheCat Tue 24-Sep-13 20:54:10

You've made your mind up about it all so why are you asking? Not enough material on the threads linked for the usual "horrified at what teachers say" newspaper article? (PS that one's normally just done on the class names list threads btw)

Aaaah I've got it - we've ran out of inspiration now the TES "redesign" killed the posting traffic to their forums so we need to go elsewhere for our material.

Regards Tue 24-Sep-13 20:54:14

jellycake Pleased you are horrified. I think it is quite horrifying myself.

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