Verbs, adjectives, suffixes, adverbs - requirement to teach in KS1

(61 Posts)
ipadquietly Fri 20-Sep-13 19:33:07

Some of my class are so verbally challenged many of them can't string a sentence together orally. Next year they will need to deconstruct a sentence using technical vocab, and recognise suffixes, prefixes, etc.

Does anyone else who teaches KS1 think this is absolutely mindbogglingly ridiculous and unnecessary?

PastSellByDate Tue 24-Sep-13 10:07:53

sorry ipad - not sure why I typed vocabulary and not grammar - I think I will go get my coffee now.

PastSellByDate Tue 24-Sep-13 10:06:56

Hi ipadquietly:

A very long time ago - so long ago dinosaur's roamed the earth - in America on Saturday mornings during commercial breaks a government funded scheme payed for short animations about vocabulary.

Spellings may be slightly different in some areas - but these are catchy tunes and oddly enough once you see these they kind of stick. So yes it is possible for very young children (this was aimed at primary school kids ages 7 - 9) to get this.

adjectives: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkuuZEey_bs

conjunctions (connectives): www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPoBE-E8VOc

adverbs: www.youtube.com/watch?v=14fXm4FOMPM

nouns: www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0m89e9oZko

verbs: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxhF58UVumA

Interjections: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAX7Vk3JEw

predicate: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLV3eMvW73g

prepositions: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKi1o6T9CIM

There may be more but that's a good start. My DDs both find these funny & it seems to have helped them 'get' the concept.

HTH

WidowWadman Mon 23-Sep-13 19:39:39

Ah well, my daughter who started reception just about 3 weeks ago came home tonight to proudly explain to me what an alliteration is. Doesn't seem to have her done any harm.

ClayDavis Sun 22-Sep-13 16:29:50

Shh. You'll upset all those people that think Gove is being unrealistic in expecting children to know the names of the continents and oceans by the end of KS1.

We learnt poetry and had desks with inkwells but I don't think we chanted the names of the continents. I'm 31. Although to be fair, my school was stuck far more in the 1880s than the 1980s. I think it still has rules about who is allowed to tether their horse to the school fence.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 15:57:51

Not in the school I attended ...every afternoon the map was pulled down (it was on a roller like a blind) and the headteacher pointed to each as the children chanted the names ...we also had desks with dippy inkwells and pens ...told you I was old wink

CecilyP Sun 22-Sep-13 15:52:07

But I wasn't angling for a place in pseud's corner. We also learned poetry by heart, but chanting continents and oceans, no! I thought that was a pre-WW2 teaching method.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 15:43:50

We also chanted continents and oceans and learnt poetry by heart

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 15:41:01

Adequate like Ofsted satisfactory is no longer good Cecily wink

You could at least have tried informed or ^ notified^ or apprised or proclaimed or revealed for one of the told grin

CecilyP Sun 22-Sep-13 14:28:40

I'm obviously older than you CecilyP

I doubt that, mrz.

^because I was taught Grammar from reception and told I had used an interesting verb or an exciting adverb in my writing and loved it!
We used First Aid in English every day and worked through the exercises www.amazon.co.uk/First-English-Colour-Angus-MacIver/dp/1444193767/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379849185&sr=1-1&keywords=first+aid+in+english#reader_1444193767^

You must have been very advanced, mrz, as I was still on the first Janet and John book after my one and only term in reception. I had never heard of a verb till first year juniors, or an adverb till about 3rd year.

and sorry but no your verbs are very ordinary

How disappointing - though I am sure they were perfectly adequate for saying what I wanted to say.

ClayDavis Sun 22-Sep-13 13:57:02

I can't see any reason for stopping using it. It's good at what it does. I used Jolly Grammar in KS1. They've brought out a 3rd one but I'm not sure how effective it would be in year 3. I'd want something with a bit more practice I think.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 13:37:04

Dare I confess my school has never stopped using Hayden Richards hmm

ClayDavis Sun 22-Sep-13 13:02:58

We worked through Hayden Richard's Junior English everyday. I'm not sure I can get quite so nostalgic about that.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 12:30:29

I actually purchased Mr Gwynne's Grammar for nostalgia

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 12:28:50

I'm obviously older than you CecilyP because I was taught Grammar from reception and told I had used an interesting verb or an exciting adverb in my writing and loved it!
We used First Aid in English every day and worked through the exercises www.amazon.co.uk/First-English-Colour-Angus-MacIver/dp/1444193767/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379849185&sr=1-1&keywords=first+aid+in+english#reader_1444193767

and sorry but no your verbs are very ordinary wink

simpson Sun 22-Sep-13 10:49:17

DD's (5) year 1 homework this week was to write a few (I forget how many) sentences about doing chores around the house and underline the verb.

It seemed quite straight forward to me.

CecilyP Sun 22-Sep-13 10:48:29

Is it just me:, am I the only one who is profoundly glad that no teacher told me that I used a really good verb in a sentence when I was 6-years-old? Come to think of it no-one told me I used a really good verb in any sentence throughout my school career.

mrz, are there any good verbs in the post above?

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 10:09:08

but at the level of a 6 year old they learn by reference ...that is a really good verb you used in your sentence X ... please read it out to the class ...can anyone tell me the great verb X used?

ipadquietly Sun 22-Sep-13 10:05:18

mrz We do talk about what a sentence is, and expand and improve sentences in KS1. We do lots of work with questions, and how to answer using a full sentence. We cover time connectives (because it tells you about the time something is happening) and connectives (because they connect) - both easy for a 6/7 year old to relate to and learn to use. Adverbs will be covered by answering questions using 'how?'. Powerful verbs are collected through drama and children are encouraged to use them. Lots of work is done with adjectives.

My dispute is that most children will be unable to understand the words 'verbs, adjectives and adverbs' because they have no frames of reference for the words.

Also, I really don't see how knowing the word 'verb' is going to improve a 6 year old's literacy.

Retropear Sun 22-Sep-13 09:31:57

I also think a lot of it is used far more in ks2 so easier to teach ie checking pronouns in editing,drawing in more adjectives etc.

I guess the question is when is better to teach ie when will it go in more quickly.

Also if you push too much with some younger children you can put them off writing at all.Which is better less beautifully constructed writing or more less technically correct?

I feel for kids as amazing content with varied language smilies,metaphores etc is expected too.

I love creative writing myself but take my hat off to these young kids- a lot is expected of them.

meditrina Sun 22-Sep-13 09:07:00

I suppose it ones don to whether you see grammar as abstract and 'difficult' and therefore inherently unsuitable for young children. Or whether you see it as a way of talking about language, using straightforward terms that children can absorb easily, alongside all the other proper terms they learn at school.

It's really not a difficult thing, though I suppose teachers who were not taught it themselves (in the 1970s and a few decades after) might struggle themselves. That is not however because grammar is not suitable for small children, nor because it can be taught iteratively, but because it was simply omitted as dull and hard.

OP may however be in quite a different situation - she says many in her class cannot even string a sentence together out loud. Now, these pupil need to learn how to produce a more standard version of the language. Teaching them they need a subject and a verb, and then giving them more options from there (ie a grammar based intervention) is a way ahead, long before they are able to read.

Retropear Sun 22-Sep-13 08:36:02

I kind of have mixed views on this.

I used to call them describing,doing words etc in ks1 blush and yes to be honest concentrating on spelling,punctuation and confidence in writing was kind of enough imvho.

Also my dc are now in 5 and 4 and started doing the things mentioned in the op properly in year 3.I have to say they pick it up very quickly as it's hardly rocket science. I think they could leave it until year 3 to be frank but it needs to be covered then,leaving it until 5 &6 is too late. Pace is sometimes an issue in our school(they seem to have been doing prefixes and suffixes for aaaaaaages) so there is a danger they could run out of time if left until key stage 2.

But then my 3 are quite literate,not sure what is best for the less able tbh.Must be a nightmare already getting spelling,punctuation and content licked by year 2 if you struggle.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 08:33:21

It's called progression, they introduce the concept very simply at first then develop it year on year. A time connective? in Y1 might be next, then or when but in later years meanwhile, consequently, subsequently, initially, eventually etc. and I would hope they would stop calling them time connectives

CecilyP Sun 22-Sep-13 08:02:11

I guess things need to be repeated again and again, DD (yr1) has also been learning about time connectives (was her homework this week) which DS went over last year when in yr3 (now yr4).

If they have to go over it again and again, it including in Y3, it suggests that they didn't really get it in KS1 as per ipad's post. Please don't retire, ipad - unless you want to for other reasons.

mrz Sun 22-Sep-13 06:16:51

The very word sentence may be a grammar term you should introduce in reception/nursery ipadquietly and then they can learn the term and the concept.

Many of our pupils arrive with little language (unless you count point and grunt and whine) so we prioritise Speaking & Listening including developing vocabulary and grammar.

simpson Sun 22-Sep-13 00:45:00

DD has been learning at school this week about verbs (although has known for a while).

She knows about alliteration (thanks Horrid Henry) because she has an older brother, ditto similies.

I guess things need to be repeated again and again, DD (yr1) has also been learning about time connectives (was her homework this week) which DS went over last year when in yr3 (now yr4).

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