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When do the Summer birthdays "catch up" ?

(80 Posts)
BaconAndAvocado Thu 12-Sep-13 11:02:06

DD has just started Year 1 and I went into help with reading yesterday.

She is an August birthday, and although I always thought she was a bright little button, the vast majority of the class are way ahead of her!

I realise being an August birthday has a huge bearing on her education but I'm sure I read somewhere that there is an age where the younger ones catch up and the gap between the ages closes.

Am I right?

Tia

Theas18 Fri 13-Sep-13 11:35:33

Humm dunno.

DD1 was in a study of summer borns. That was funsmile She had caught up by reception (and would have been a nightmare in the year below). I understood the results suggested on the whole that the most disadvantaged summer borns were those who were also prem ie due in Sept or even Oct.

AS mentioned above 11+ makes allowance for birth month. GCSE do not so I assume the effect is reckoned to have gone by then.

I agree that clever summer borns dominate these threads but aren't all MN kids clever ( if not SN?) . Ok that's a tongue in cheek comment but we are a statistically self selected active interested computer literate bunch of parents...

I'd love to see a study looking at this effect in young adults especially now everyone has had 3 terms in reception from 4+ rathe than the staggered entry we had when I was a kid (these young adults are early 20s now at least)

Theas18 Fri 13-Sep-13 11:38:55

and as Sparklingbrook mentioned ...

Don't forget parents it's " our fault" for having summer borns that they can't legally go to all those 18th birthday parties, or drink at the prom, or get a summer job in a bar...

We are MEAN AND CRUEL !!

Honestly that's when DD1 was actually bothered by being a summer born.

Periwinkle007 Fri 13-Sep-13 11:45:41

don't forget though that the oldest in the year can suffer emotionally/psychologically from the assumption that they will be more mature, more grown up, more sensible, more able, quicker to pick things up etc. I know my daughter has been told by other children that she is the oldest so she should be able to do better than them and they are level with her so ner ner ne ner ner kind of thing (I have heard them) now presumably they got that from parents but it knocks her confidence terribly and I have to keep explaining that she can't expect to be top of everything just because her birthday happens to be in September.

yep Theas that will be all my fault in 4 year's time. sad

gymboywalton Fri 13-Sep-13 13:12:44

my august born year 6 is in top sets for everything. where he sometimes has issues is the emotional side of things. he has had times when he has found the hurly burly of the playground too much for him and he was thought of as 'sensitive' by the teachers for a while but really it was immaturity.

Suzieismyname Fri 13-Sep-13 13:19:20

Lucky you Discretion. I tried teaching DD1 letters but she wasn't interested. It took the teachers 6 months to get her to even try writing. She.just.wasn't.ready!!!

DiscretionGuaranteed Fri 13-Sep-13 14:06:20

I agree Suzie, it was blind luck that mine happened to be ready for it. Less lucky that they weren't ready to be reliably dry until they'd turned 5.

Looksgoodingravy Fri 13-Sep-13 14:33:19

Periwinkle, I agree entirely with your post.

DS is a September born and often the older children do have this added pressure not only from other children but from teachers too!

Saying that he's doing extremely well but I don't think that this is all down to him being an Autumn born, he's just very bright (biased) wink - tongue in cheek emoticon.

Dancingdreamer Sat 14-Sep-13 00:49:07

The statistics that younger children in a class are disadvantaged holds true in other countries and educational cultures. This is why the Germans give parents the option of children starting education aged 7 or 8 years.

hillian Sat 14-Sep-13 06:55:50

my July born year 7 got levels 5 & 6 in the SATS.

I think the difference is he didn't start school until he was 7 so he was never asked as a 4 year old to keep up with children who were nearly a whole year older. Therefore he never got used to struggling and failing.

littlemiss06 Sat 14-Sep-13 08:27:02

My august 31st twins had caught up by year two

alpinemeadow Sat 14-Sep-13 08:41:12

Taffeta what's the justification being given for ending the 11 plus age adjustment in your area? I thought the adjustment was a very long standing practice. Has there been any recent evidence to suggest it's not necessary? I'm not aware of any, but would be interesting to know why they've taken that decision!

BaconAndAvocado Sat 14-Sep-13 13:59:35

Feeling much happier now the general consensus seems to be Year 2. That's not far off smile

brettgirl2 Sun 15-Sep-13 18:46:49

I'm a summer born myself. I don't believe the year 2 thing, I was average when I started but got progressively cleverer right up to a levels where I achieved nearly the same results as my ultra-cvlever November born brother.

keepsmiling12345 Sun 15-Sep-13 21:31:57

My DC's school mixed the reception classes by age. A three class intake so my May born DD was in a class of purely April to August birthdays. I was originally against it since I thought they were making assumptions about what older class could do vs middle vs younger class but actually it worked well and they were able to differentiate academically within the classes (as other posters have said, some summer borns are academically ahead whilst some sept borns struggle on certain aspects). Classes stayed the same for reception and year 1 and then all the children were mixed up into new classes in year 2, in which intent is to have a balance of age, gender, ability, personalities etc.

Blu Tue 17-Sep-13 09:22:46

OP, please do not feel that help with reading in Yr 1 is in any way an issue.

I think the national average for learning to read is in fact 6. Not something you would learn from readong posts on MN, though!

DS is a summer born child, I thought he would be an early reader as he was an early talker, but no, wasn't really a confident reader until Yr 2. There is a stage where they suddenly 'get it'.

bigTillyMint Tue 17-Sep-13 09:32:23

I think there is a huge variation between children and being summer-born may show itself in different ways.

DD is summer-born, but has always been fine academically and socially. DS is spring-born and wasn't ready for formal stuff till he was about 7.

I agree, there is usually a stage where they just get it. usually around the end of Y2/Y3

sheeplikessleep Tue 17-Sep-13 10:15:51

As a mum of a three week old, this thread has also reassured me too. The IFS report makes grim reading.

I always thought it was around the age of 8, remember reading it but not sure where.

I am not sure it has a huge bearing, the birthday thing though.

DS is November and DD July and DD has always been far ahead of her peers academically but behind socially whereas DS is about right in terms of academics but is far ahead in terms of social skills.

Socioeconomics come into it not just what time of year they are born.

babasheep Tue 17-Sep-13 13:00:47

I have two summer dcs. While I accept that summer born can hold them back in early years I also value them as individuals. There will be some things they are more advanced and something they more behind than others. Other children may have different family or health issues that may set them back in life. I just accept I have to support them according to their current levels of abilities and interest. My 10 yrs dc only got 2cs at Ks1 those years ago but now in year 6 my dc1 is approaching level 5. My dc2 could hardly read or spell and reluctant to speak any words by the end of reception. But by the end of year 2 dc2's reading and spelling age were nearly nine years old and talking nonstop all day. Just keep going with them with appropriate supports the young one can catch up.

babasheep Tue 17-Sep-13 13:26:45

Only a few days ago I heard that my dc2' autumn born friend is currently reading two stages ahead of my dc but there are over nine months age gap between them. So by the time my dc2 get to the same age dc2 is very likely to be reading at least the same stage of books. However my dc2 seemed not doing as well in the school reading record. But in reality I believe dc2 is doing just as well if you take account of the true age difference.

GooseyLoosey Tue 17-Sep-13 13:40:57

My dd is in Yr 5 and late August born. She too is average.

Being late summer born has had some negative impact which I think may have been aviodable if I had really be aware of what was happening.

When dd started school, she was the youngest in the school (by several months as luck would have it). She was also cute, blonde and fluffy. This resulted in her being the "class baby", a role which she only grew out of when she left the school. It meant that if she couldn't do something, she simpered and someone else did it for her.

Associated with this, was a general lack of expectation, which again stayed with her. Both her and her brother (15 months older) started school with the same base line level of learning. With ds the expectations were that he would pick up a certain amount in a certain time. With dd, those expectations were adjusted downwards because of her age and there never seemed to be a time when they were refocused.

I agree with the others who suggest that these threads can lull parents of late summer children into a false sense of security. Of course it is not a problem for some children, but it quite clearly is for others and an awareness of that can help mitigate some of the potential problems.

babasheep Tue 17-Sep-13 14:45:47

I think the lack or low expectations from teachers and adults can be more a issue especially when children were separated into top middle and bottom groups from as young as age 5 or 6. As the kids only think they are good or bad at the subject/s according to the group they are allocated into. The kids don't understand the importance of their age differences. For while I had to keep going to dc1's teachers to ask to have dc1 transferred into middle group as dc was not being challenged enough in the bottom group. Since she become more confident in the subject. More damaging effect that had on her was the fact that dc believed she cannot be any good at the subject no matter how hard she try.

sheeplikessleep Tue 17-Sep-13 14:46:56

Goosey - how can we mitigate some of the potential problems then?

I am planning to start ds3 early at nursery - at 2, so he gets 2 full years before starting school. I also plan to attend a variety of toddler groups to build up his social skills and confidence. Likewise, I will try to get him recognising letters and phonics before starting school too. I hope that having two older brothers, ds3 will be used to interacting with children older than himself.

My biggest concern is that both ds1 and ds2 were speech delayed, so ds3 might be too.

I would appreciate anyone thoughts on how to try to counterbalance the summer effect! Thanks

sheeplikessleep Tue 17-Sep-13 14:49:54

And also, how do we tally up explaining to children that there will be a difference as their friends are older than them, against the need to not create low expectations?

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