ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
End of reception year and still can't read(92 Posts)
Just wanted to know how common it was really, and how worried I should be. Am wondering if DS could be dyslexic, or would it be too early to tell?
He was a very late talker which seemed to impact on his ability to learn phonics - can't hear the sounds or make some of them.He entered reception still having additional needs with his speech and language (didn't start talking til about 3 and a half. He is much better now but some speech sounds are a bit unclear).
Things looked good mid way through the year as he seemed to make some progress. He was moved out of the special needs group for reading and started to bring home reading books.
But his progress seems to have stopped and is possibly moving backwards. Reading with him recently and you wouldn't have thought he'd ever seen a word/had a phonics lesson in his life.
I think my worry is that you can show him a word on one page, turn the page and show him the same word and he's forgotten it again. He does have a terrible memory - can't remember days of the week etc. He also struggles with writing, certain aspects of dressing etc
We read every night - not just boring books, things like the beano which he loves etc Have tried loads of things to get him reading too, like iPad apps, different reading schemes, Cat in the Hat etc
Thanks if you've read this far! Any words of advice or comfort gratefully received!
Tbh, BigBoobiedBertha, I think that it's you who 'keeps on going'. You've made your point several times over and I think you should back off now.
I agree with mrz and other posters that to say 'don't worry, it will just click' would be very irresponsible.
You didn't 'dare to disagree' though, did you'? I told the OP how things had happened to for DS - you weren't in a position to disagree because you don't know me, my DS or his experience. You weren't there and you don't know what happened, you just picked holes where there were none and seemingly took offence when challenged on it. I have no idea why.
Believe me I tried ignoring you but you just keep on going, don't you?
I think mrz has been very responsible (not that that is her job here) and she is right to say what she said. My DS was like the OPs. His old teacher kept sayong he was fine. I was worried. He moved school ,his new teacher said he was not really fine. He had not got his sounds. He needed concentrated help at school and at home. We agreed a plan. We put it in action. He is now on track. It has now clicked.
For this thread to just read "don't worry it will just click" would be irresponsoble if people like mrz know that is not always the way. She cannot help on individual cases. That has to be a discussion between the parent and the child's teacher.
mrs thank you for your input. If I had not already spoken/addressed my DS's issues your posts would have given me the courage to question his old teacher more and go on my instincts he was being failed.
So that's what all this is about ... I had a "pop" at you? I dared to disagree with something you said ...
well for the record 25% don't fall through the gap because of crappy teaching as you put it ... some fall through the gap because people say things like "don't worry he's only young" "it will click eventually" "he's very good at ... so there can't be a problem" and parents like ME listen to them!
and it isn't my job to do anything on MN I'm a parent and no different from any other poster on this site
Oh get over yourself. Go back to your first post and see who started this - I named you because you had a pop at me. If you don't want to be pulled up on your PA behaviour don't do it. No doubt you won't be able to help yourself and will reply with mock horror and/or indignation that I have got it all wrong. Yeah, right.
I have no problem with the truth but you aren't giving the whole picture are you? 25% might fall through the net because if crappy teaching but 75% don't. What stops them falling through the net? That is what you should be contributing to this thread if you want to contribute. Nobody is forcing you by the way, not when you seem so bored by it all.
Besides there are different levels of responsibility for a teacher replying as opposed to another parent. It is your job to help if you are posting as a teacher but other parents can sympathise because we have been in the same boat. I think the OP has enough sense to know that talking on here changes nothing. She knows her DS and she knows he needs help. The question is what help?
Probably because you started your posts with my name and I replied BigBoobiedBertha
I would regard it to be a failure not to tell a parent that their child need support whereas you seem to think the teacher should let them believe it will click eventually
Yes, strange that Maisie. I am not sure why all her comments were focussed on me rather than answering the OP. You do realise that the OP can read the stuff you write, don't you? This is an open forum. Anyway, it is all very weird.
I am more than happy to make a fool of myself if some failing teacher wouldn't help me help my DS. I do take the bigger picture. I was actually quite laid back about DS and thankfully there was no need to worry about that - he went to a very good school who did their job and helped - nobody told he might never learn to read for a start. They made sure he had fun and enjoyed himself whilst he was doing it. Couldn't ask for more. Shame all teachers aren't as good.
If I had gone to my DS's teacher at the end of Yr R and the only thing they could think of to say is that some children never learn to read, i would have been talking to the head faster than you could say 'failed teacher'. I surprised you can't see why that is so negative.
The thing is, BBB, in this discussion mrz wasn't telling the OP that. She was telling you.
Yes I imagine you would go in all guns blazing
making a fool of yourself because you have chosen to focus on the minutiae rather than the whole.
Have you had his eyes tested? Just a thought as ds is really long sighted and we had no idea. It was picked up at a routine test in school at 4. Luckily they hadn't started learning to read as he wouldn't have been able to!!
Also dd learnt to read using "read write inc phonics" books which were brilliant and we used those with ds too. Bought them on line as we emigrated to oz when dd was in reception and we wanted to keep up with how her uk school was teaching her. I can't recommend them enough, both dcs found these books fun and wanted to read them!
At last some advice from you.
If I had gone to my DS's teacher at the end of Yr R and the only thing they could think of to say is that some children never learn to read, i would have been talking to the head faster than you could say 'failed teacher'. I surprised you can't see why that is so negative. Thankfully you have fnally offered some advice. Lets hope the OP's DS might avoid being part of that 25% because his teachers do think to help first not give in to the possibility that he will never read before his school career has even got started
For the record my advice was don't worry, it will probably click, but talk to the teacher. That is what I did and DS is clearly fine now wrt reading because the teacher helped and didn't just quote statistics about all the children who do fail.
and if you can't see telling someone that it will be all right when you don't know is irresponsible ...I've read too many threads started by parents who have been told just that only to discover that it isn't always true.
Most children do catch up BigBoobiedBertha but a significant number (about a quarter) don't and sitting back and waiting to see if it clicks by Y6 results in shattered self esteem and many children entering secondary school already disaffected.
My advice for what it's worth is not to worry but not to ignore it either. Speak to the school to find out what they are going to do and how you can help him at home. They are best placed to know where he is having difficulties.
Can he hear words when you say the sounds clearly?
Play aural blending games ... Simon says /s/ /i/ /t/ Simon says /h/ /o//p/ .../j/ /u/ /m/ /p/ etc If he can do it when you say the sounds see if he can hear the word when he says the sounds ... I find this is where some children struggle initially so needs lots of patience and practice.
Then move onto simple two and three sound words ...I use post it notes with a sound written on each note but you could use magnetic letter
Space the word out on the fridge and get him to physically move the sounds together as he says them. try blending the first two sounds then adding the final sound ...so /c/ /a/ ca /t/ cat so he builds in stages.
Check which sounds he recognises and can match to the written form.
OK MaizieD - why has Mrz not offered up suggestions about what the OP could be doing? It is negative to say that some children fail because of bad teachers without giving any advice at all, anywhere on this thread, on what to do to either mitigate the effect of a bad teacher or make sure the OP's DS gets a good one. In all likelihood, given that the OP's DS is only in Yr R and has been slightly delayed in his speech, he will eventually get there when he is developmentally ready. Most children do catch up and learn to read, especially with an interested parent who is committed to helping.
If the child had been in Yr 6 and still not reading, I could understand the voice of doom but not for a child in Yr R. Seriously if you can't see how that isn't negative, I worry for your judgement.
What is negative about saying 'Don't sit back and expect it to 'click'?'
What is negative about saying 'Don't sit back and expect it to 'click'?'
There are a great many children out there with no SEN who struggle to learn to read because their teaching is poor. It will never 'click' for them because they don't understand (because they haven't been taught) just how reading 'works'. And, the longer they are left in ignorance the further they are left behind. It's known as The Matthew Effect. The saddest thing is that, even if they do get some good teaching at a later age, they stand a good chance of never catching up with their peers. Which can have a profound effect on their life chances and their self image.
What I would rather Mrz is that you actually offered some help and concrete advice rather than spewing negativity everywhere.
You should know that some children take longer to get reading and may need some extra help or a different approach but all you can do is offer up the fact that there are failed teenagers out there who have been badly let down by their teachers and can't read. Either that or you are suggesting that the OP's DS has some severe SEN when there is no suggestion of that.
Shame on you.
He sounds exactly like my daughter, who couldn't read at all at the end of reception and struggled in year one despite extra help from the teachers. She knew she was struggling, too - she would get very upset in class and be disruptive, basically as an avoidance tactic, and would simply refuse to try and read at home, though she loved being read to.
Then at the beginning of year two it suddenly all clicked and she went up five reading bands in half a term (from 5 to 10), and at the end of year two she is a free reader. I think the whole episode has had a huge impact on her self confidence though and she is notably reluctant to move on academically because the next stage will be too hard, she is "stupid" etc
My DD was also a lateish talker, especially compared to her siblings, and was diagnosed in year one with glue ear that was affecting her hearing - she could hear vowel sounds but not consonants, so couldn't do phonics at all, really. We'd had concerns she couldn't hear properly for years (dismissed by GP and health visitors) so I suspect she'd had glue ear on and off from when she was tiny and that it affected her speech. But presumably if your son has a speech delay his hearing has been checked?
BTW she is also very creative and imaginative and curious about the world, but still struggles with writing, maths, not great at sequencing, forgetful etc so I think she may be mildly dyslexic.
Just the opposite BigBoobiedBertha ...Perhaps you would rather I said "do nothing because every child learns to read and write eventually" or "it will click because it did for my child" (obviously with my fingers crossed because it isn't true) or would you rather that children were helped early so they don't get to 15 unable to read and write effectively
Wow, writing off a child in Yr R! I bet that is exactly what the OP needs to hear when trying to help her 5 yr old. Nice.
Unfortunately for some children it never clicks ... the literacy chat topic
#literacychat Topic 2 8-15 - 8.30 How do we help students in KS4 who struggle to read and write? Join us :-)
Completely non-technical comment here.
I wouldn't worry. I was concerned that my DDs didn't learn to read as early as I had (before I started school), I couldn't see how they were going to learn at school with so much else going on.
But I think when they are ready, it just clicks and they make progress very quickly. (DH wasn't worried at all - he was 7 before he learnt to read!)
My son was being taught in reception with a mush mash of look and say and phonics with HFW chucked in. By the end of reception he was a nervous wreck at the thought of opening a book. Not what an English graduate wants for her child.
We moved him to a school absolutely dedicated to teaching reading through phonics. One year later his reading level is 2c (which is apparently slightly ahead of expectations). He loves reading and does so for pleasure. Unfamiliar words no longer provoke a melt down because he has the tools to tackle them.
It was a drastic solution as he was very very happy at his old school. But reading is so essential a skill we really didn't feel we had any choice.
So BrightonMama my DS2 just finished R and can't really read either. He has various S&L issues as well as hearing impairment so it's not surprising that he's taking a little longer.
We've signed up to Reading Chest and he does Reading Eggs too, which he loves. He has made progress over the year and is advancing all the time; just not at the same rate as his peers. I'm really looking forward to summer and working with him on his reading and literacy more than I get the chance to at the moment (he's really, really tired when we get in from school and mornings are a bit frantic).
I am determined that he doesn't 'slump' over the summer. We'll make it fun too.
Do let us know how you got on. I'm all ears for suggestions/tips.
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