What would you think if this was happening in your y3 child's class?

(187 Posts)
RunnersWorld Sat 09-Feb-13 15:13:18

And what, if anything, would you do?

One of the children is very disruptive, including bouts of physical and verbal violence, e.g.:

-Throwing chairs
-Swearing at the class and teacher
-Tearing up his own and others' work
-Pacing around the class when they are supposed to be working/listening
-Walking out of class meaning the teacher has to leave to bring him back
-There have also been two complaints from children/parents about him touching girls inappropriately (now has 121 at lunchtimes, so is constantly watched)

At least one from this list happens daily, once it was so extreme that the teacher had to remove the rest of the class from the room while two TA's tried to calm him. School was unable to contact anyone to collect him so he spent the rest of the day in the Head's office, as the TA basically refused to work with him. He's big for his age, strong and scary when he loses control.

My DS2 is in this class. I know all the detail because of my job, most parents of course will only have patchy stories relayed by their DC, but they all know there is a problem. To avoid drip feeding, I will also say I know that he is a very damaged child as a result of sexual abuse and currently living with a foster family. Other parents know nothing of this of course.

I am interested in an opinion from the POV of the parents who know nothing of his background, please.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 10-Feb-13 16:03:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jrrtolkien Sun 10-Feb-13 16:12:39

I would be very unhappy if my DC were being taught in that environment.
I'd also have sympathy for the boy but I would question whether sharing a classroom with my DC was the right environment for either of them.

I don't know about the rest.of you but I will never be able to guess the boys identity from her description so she is motoring indiscretion at all. Anymore than a doctor is when he publishes a case study giving some medical details of a patient.

YouOldSlag Sun 10-Feb-13 16:24:15

jrrtolkein- I agree.

Re-reading the OP, I just don't think the children are safe with him in the class. If they have to be evacuated and if an adult TA refuses to work with him and if it took two adult staff to calm him, and he throws chairs... that does not sound safe.

But punishment is not the answer: the poor child sounds so angry and damaged. However, as much as inclusive education is important, the safety of other children is more important.

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 16:25:03

"The difficulty with having the local authority as your 'corporate parent' is that if the same council refuses to meet a child's educational needs, the SW is unable to fight this"

This is not- or should not be- the case! Part of my role is to ensure that looked after children with additional needs get the educational support they need- this can (and has) involve fighting the borough's SEN department, and even applying to SS on occasion to fund additional in-school support. This is one of the reasons we as a team of teachers are separate from social work teams.

As the corporate parent, we must act in the best interests of the child, not our employers. If that means challenging our employers, so be it.

DoctorAnge Sun 10-Feb-13 16:26:53

I would remove my child from the school.

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 16:29:27

"However, as much as inclusive education is important, the safety of other children is more important"

I don't think it's either/or, TBH.

If the school cannot keep the other children safe, then they are failing him too.

OlaSparkles Sun 10-Feb-13 16:35:47

I think you are unbeliveably unprofessional in revealing a history of sexual abuse and the current foster care situation of a CHILD accompanied by such detail.
What on earth were you hoping to achieve?
I have reported your post. I hope MNHQ act quickly to remove it.

Narked Sun 10-Feb-13 16:43:12

I don't think there is identifying information in the post.

Narked Sun 10-Feb-13 16:45:38

And I think it's reasonable to mention that the child has had an abusive home environment and is now safe. The behaviour he exhibits towards other children is a result of this.

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 16:47:52

It's also worth mentioning that each child's needs should be assessed individually, and- crucially- by professionals qualified to do so.

Attachment behaviour can present with identical symptoms as ASD (and vice versa). it is essential that children with traumatic experiences are not 'diagnosed' by anyone not qualified to do so. ABA is a good example of a methodology which can work wonders for one child and significantly damage another. I would be extremely cautious about using ABA with a child who has experienced neglect, trauma or abuse.

YouOldSlag Sun 10-Feb-13 16:47:54

I agree Narked. there is no name, no location, no school is named, the age of the boy isn't given (just a guess would say he's 7 or 8) and the OP has said she has changed some details.

tethersend, whilst I see what you're trying to say, it can't be entirely the school's fault. They are not raising him, they only have him for six hours a day. There is only so much a school can do. I think by evacuating the classroom they are working to keep the children safe. They obviously cannot control the boy, but is that their failing? Maybe some children cannot be controlled by the limited systems teachers have at their disposal.

Narked Sun 10-Feb-13 16:49:14

Things like this make you realise that the budget for SS needs doubling. The poor child needs intensive professional support for an extended period of time including trained one to one in school. Without that his issues aren't going to go away. They'll just get worse as he gets bigger and harder to control.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Feb-13 16:55:36

Why SS?

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 16:59:23

"I think by evacuating the classroom they are working to keep the children safe."

YouOldSlag, evacuating a classroom is not an effective way to keep the boy or his classmates safe, and disrupts the education of other children hugely. Escorting him away would be more appropriate.

Saying the school could do more is not the same as saying his behaviour is their fault. With the right training, staff can manage his behaviour safely whilst minimising the disruption of others' learning.

Narked Sun 10-Feb-13 17:05:16

I think SS because these are issues that are likely to be tied in with the abuse, the child's previous home life, current living situation etc. the child may change schools, move to different foster carers etc. SS are the ones with the the most information and are in the best position to get him emotional and psychological support.

HotheadPaisan Sun 10-Feb-13 17:17:48

I dont know, like I said, most of this could be about DS1, would have been a travesty to move him and there was nothing else locally that would have worked anyway, we looked, and visited, and fretted at length.

Ironically, support was provided at lunchtime for another child to protect him from DS1, had that have been spent on structured play with DS1 those incidents wouldn't have occurred. So I applied for that.

Much more support needs to be put into playtime and classroom support at this level, whatever the issues, because there are always some. Everyone can put pressure on schools to do that. In fact parents are starting to cimplain about bullying and interaction issues (not to do with DS1) because I've said this is what's needed. If they are putting up with it on their kids' behalf there's no hope for the kids with additional issues.

And money is tight, so it's all the more important it's spent where's needed, no-one can learn in a stressful environment, demand and expect action to be taken for all, because it will benefit your kids to have more adults around.

MrsDeVere Sun 10-Feb-13 17:32:53

Schools get a pot of allocated money according to how many children they have registered with SEN/SN.

If there are no children with SEN/SN there is no money. This is why children with SEN/SN attract money.

The money in the SEN/SN pot is NOT always used in the way it should be.

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 17:36:37

Looked After Children also receive pupil premium, but this is nowhere near enough to pay for specialist support.

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 17:43:25

Schools do not get a pot load of money according to how many children they have registered with SEN/SN I wish they did.

tethersend Sun 10-Feb-13 17:52:44

I think mrsDV is referring to the attached funding for the support hours outlined in a child's statement.

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 17:58:18

The attached funding doesn't even cover the wages for a TAs hours ...it's a joke!

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 10-Feb-13 18:14:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yfronts Sun 10-Feb-13 18:18:00

I would expect him to have 121 TA support during school lessons if his behavior problems were extreme. This would be for his benefit and the other kids.

MrsDeVere Sun 10-Feb-13 18:20:01

No. Higher end statements come with additional funding.
Schools are allocated money according to the amount of children with additonal needs.

Have you never wondered why schools are reluctant to apply for statements for children who they know will only get a lower banded statement? They don't want to have to fund additional help out of the general SEN/SN budget.

MrsDeVere Sun 10-Feb-13 18:21:22

I didn't say it was a lot of money or even enough. But I am sick of people using the phrase 'divert resources'. Its bollocks.

Its like saying children on free school meals 'divert food' from those who pay for school meals.

They don't.

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