phonics experts -come and settle an argument

(380 Posts)
sausagesandwich34 Wed 23-Jan-13 21:43:54

scone it's an oldy but a goody!

pronounced to rhyme with cone or gone?

does the magic 'e' come into play?

does the magic 'e' even exist anymore?

mrz Fri 01-Feb-13 17:16:40

I taught in Hartlepool and Middlesbrough many years ago.
Yes Missbopeep I do live in the NE and have lived there for half a century smile
My first school was in South Shields on the south bank of the Tyne and staunch Black Cats.

learnandsay Fri 01-Feb-13 12:32:57

I lived in Hartlepool for four years.

Missbopeep Fri 01-Feb-13 11:44:44

Fine. <<whatever>>

Do you live in the NE by the way? Or have lived there for any length of time?

learnandsay Fri 01-Feb-13 09:37:17

I'm not talking about Sunderland. I'm talking about Hartlepool.

Missbopeep Fri 01-Feb-13 09:27:44

mrz learnandsay is correct on south Tyneside they consider themselves Maccems and wear read and white so being called a Geordie is an insult

read??

Sorry but she is not right.

People from Sunderland wear red and white scarves etc to support that footie team. Sunderland is not Teeside or south Tyneside. It's Wearside.

I ought to know - my family have lived there for generations.

mrz Thu 31-Jan-13 17:32:22

Oldest Living English?

"Today the only part of England where the original Anglo-Saxon language has survived to any great extent is of course the North East. ^Here the old language survives in a number of varieties, the most notable of which are Northumbrian and Geordie. It is from the ancient Germanic and Scandinavian language of the Angles that the unique local dialects of Northumberland and Durham primarily owe their origins.*

Geordie words should not therefore be seen as sloppy pronounciation or a poor use of language, as they are in fact of great antiquity. Indeed many old words and phrases commonly used in the old works of Chaucer and Shakespeare which are no longer used in other parts of Britain have survived as common usage in the North East."

mrz Thu 31-Jan-13 16:49:38

they still didn't write in dialect

mrz Thu 31-Jan-13 16:46:27

Oh so to be a Geordie is something to be ashamed of?

How odd.

They must have been posh "Geordies" then

Not posh in the slightest just not Geordies

learnandsay is correct on south Tyneside they consider themselves Maccems and wear read and white so being called a Geordie is an insult

Missbopeep Thu 31-Jan-13 11:09:21

It has absolutely nothing to do with Teeside.

Maccem interestingly enough is derived from the dialect contraction of "make them".

Geordies "maccem" and "tackem"- make them and take them.

Pet.

Missbopeep Thu 31-Jan-13 11:06:42

A Geordie by definition is someone born on the banks of the Tyne- or near enough.

Like a cockney is someone born within the sound of Bow bells.

I am wondering when it became a derogatory term and something to be "horrified" of being?

The entire population of Newcastle should now be hanging their heads in shame.

learnandsay Thu 31-Jan-13 10:40:37

That's Teesside.

learnandsay Thu 31-Jan-13 10:37:08

No, on Tyneside they're Maccams and woe betides anyone who calls them Geordies!

Missbopeep Thu 31-Jan-13 10:35:19

Oh so to be a Geordie is something to be ashamed of?

How odd.

They must have been posh "Geordies" then. Whatever, pet.

<<shrugs>>

mrz Thu 31-Jan-13 07:19:34

and no they didn't write in dialect.

mrz Thu 31-Jan-13 07:18:34

I taught on Tyneside but my pupils would be horrified to be considered "Geordies"

Missbopeep Wed 30-Jan-13 21:01:22

I don't really get your point.

If you know the north east well then you would know that there is a very precise region that is termed "Geordieland". That is the area I worked in and that is what I was illustrating.

If you mean the north east as in anywhere from Hull to Berwick, then no.

mrz Wed 30-Jan-13 19:18:27

So it was a bit of a blanket statement to make Missbopeep as only a small part of the North East is "Geordie land"

Missbopeep Wed 30-Jan-13 19:03:43

I teach in the North East and our pupils don't write in Geordie

so? confused

Things have obviously changed in some schools anyway because they certainly tried to when I was there- but it was a long time ago. It was quite normal to see "gannin" for " going".

mrz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:52:48

Our pupils save dialect for reported speech

Euphemia Wed 30-Jan-13 18:52:47

They aren't saying that an IPA symbolisation is the truth. They're just saying it's a way of representing an opinion of what a word sounds like. And they're saying that the same word can be represented differently within the IPA.

Absolutely - no-one claims it's a perfect system. It's very strongly-influenced by European languages, but it's a very useful tool.

Euphemia Wed 30-Jan-13 18:40:33

I'm always very impressed by pupils' awareness of register i.e. knowing that we (usually) write in standard English, but speak more informally, and often in dialect.

Even in January, when we have been learning about Scots, memorising poems in Scots, and reading Scots stories, the children never write in anything other than standard English.

In my day you'd have got the strap for speaking in Scots in school, never mind writing it! grin

learnandsay Wed 30-Jan-13 18:38:27

They aren't saying that an IPA symbolisation is the truth. They're just saying it's a way of representing an opinion of what a word sounds like. And they're saying that the same word can be represented differently within the IPA.

mrz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:31:52

I teach in the North East and our pupils don't write in Geordie hmm

Euphemia Wed 30-Jan-13 18:29:13

What's your point, learnandsay?

learnandsay Wed 30-Jan-13 18:24:28

Some scholarly discussions of the IPA note different linguists' approaches and even different methods of symbolising the same word depending on the method being used, within the IPA. And they also mention the need for laboratory phonetics to enable more precise statements to be made. Therefore scholars note the conventions and assumptions within the IPA and comment that other phonetic alphabets are available.

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