Do the primary school league tables include those children with SEN?

(44 Posts)
CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 11:13:11

Trying to figure out how a school with a high % of children with statements achieved 100% 'Expected level in English and Maths'.

Thanks

learnandsay Sat 12-Jan-13 11:16:24

I guess that depends on what your expectations are. If you don't expect 30% of your pupils to achieve very much and they don't achieve very much then you got what you expected.

tiggytape Sat 12-Jan-13 11:20:08

Statmented children may easily reach and exceed expected levels in maths and English: Not all statements affect English or maths ability (or academic ability at all in fact). Children can be statemented for behavioural and physical conditions too.

Most children are included in the stats. Only in very exceptional circumstances would a child not sit SATS and be included. To be exempt, a child has to be considerably behind to the point of not being able to access the tests in anyway. Very few children in most schools are exempt

tiggytape Sat 12-Jan-13 11:21:17

By expected level, I am assuming you mean nationally expected nc levels i.e Level 2's in Year 2 and level 4's in Year 6.

Feenie Sat 12-Jan-13 11:33:27

Only in very exceptional circumstances would a child not sit SATS and be included. To be exempt, a child has to be considerably behind to the point of not being able to access the tests in anyway.

Not true, I'm afraid - it doesn't matter how far behind or how severe the SEN, the results are included, no matter what.

The only tie a child's results are exempt is if they have recently arrived in the UK with little English.

Feenie Sat 12-Jan-13 11:33:43

time

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 12-Jan-13 11:36:18

My DS has SN and got level 5s. He was included in the results.

noramum Sat 12-Jan-13 12:15:52

Our Infwnt school has a special needs class, some of them sever disabled, and all are required to sit Sats and the results are taken part of the school's results.

don't forget that some purely physical disabled children are counted towards SEN and just because of logistic problems or a helper with some tasks. They not necessarily are less mental capable than a non-statement child.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 12:37:40

Like TheNebulous, I have a statemented child who attained all level 5s.

The two other statemented children at his former primary are also the highest achievers in their year groups.

SEN does not mean incapable of high academic performance.

Feenie Sat 12-Jan-13 12:54:03

Our Infwnt school has a special needs class, some of them sever disabled, and all are required to sit Sats and the results are taken part of the school's results.

That's not quite true either - the sitting bit, at least - because KS1 is teacher assessment only. Sitting tests is a very small part of the overall assessment, and is only appropriate if a child is working at level 2 or above. Any child, SEN or not, working below level 2 would not do a test, but their overall teacher assessment is included in the school's results, as you say.

The same is true of KS2 - only children working at level 3 or above 'sit' a test - a child working below level 3 would not be required to do those tests, but their assessment would go down as not achieving level 4 or above.

cumbrialass Sat 12-Jan-13 12:55:14

But in cases where SEN does mean low ability the results are still included in the league table results for the school, although the child might not physically sit the tests.

cumbrialass Sat 12-Jan-13 12:58:41

Cross posts!!

Feenie Sat 12-Jan-13 13:10:18

smile

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:33:18

cumbria and feenie - excellent, factual answers to the OP's question...

Others of us were responding to the implication that SEN children couldn't possibly achieve 'expected levels', which displays a shocking ignorance of what SEN (or 'statemented') means wink

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:36:01

Thanks for the information everyone.

I appreciate that SEN doesn't mean incapable of high academic performance.

However, at the school in question nearly 15% of children have a SEN. With such a high percentage I was surprised they still achieved 100% in the 'level 4 or above in English/maths'.

Even a physical disability would make it harder for a child to achieve (in terms of for eg missed time for hospital appts)

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:37:01

Mind you, no more shocking than my LEA's implementation of a policy to fund SEN provision in schools through a calculation involving average parental incomes/house prices within catchment. Because only poor people's children have Cerebral Palsy or Autism or Epilepsy or Dyslexia. Apparently. But that's another story!!

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:41:43

Yes tiggytape I mean nationally expected nc levels i.e Level 2's in Year 2 and level 4's in Year 6.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:42:55

OP, I'm pretty sure that 15% SEN is lower than average (if you mean all children on register, not just statements) - I think the average is something like 17-20%.

IS the school in question quite small - or do you have any other inside of this school? Are you looking at it for your child?

Ds's cohort last year got 100% level 4 and 70% level 5. In the level 5s, were 10% autistic children (ds) and 20% dyslexic. I wouldn't have though that was that unusual.

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:43:11

So the provision you get in school depends what you parents earn???

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:50:48

In an inverse proportion, CVT!!! ie, only the schools with a low income catchment get decent pots of SEN money - meaning schools with higher amounts of SEN (like a reputation for being good with autism, say, or happen to have more children with physical SEN) but an average or higher than average house price bracket get much less money. Hence my sarcasm.

Sounds Kafkaesque, but true. I asked the Head of SEN at the LEA why they thought only poorer people had SEN and she couldn't give me an answer.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:52:43

Ok, apparently the 2011 figure is 17.8% of children in mainstream schools have an SEN. So the school in question in the OP is below average.

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:53:03

ok 15% seemed like a lot to me because I'm comparing it to a school that has 2%. Perhaps its the latter thats unusual.

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:53:24

x post

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 12-Jan-13 13:55:08

interesting, wonder if thats national or local.

thanks books.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 12-Jan-13 13:56:52

That's from the dfe website. But, as I say, includes all pupils on register, not just statements which is much lower. And, of course, in a small school you're only talking a few pupils either way (for SEN, FSM, Sats results) or any other measure!

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