Just to stop me worrying, could any teachers/experienced parents

[FirstLeg]

advise me about SATs levels in Yrs 1 and 2?
If my summerborn (year 1) DS is to get 2A's in his SATs next year, what sort of level should he be working at now?
I know all children are different, learning comes in fits and starts, and SATs aren't the be all and end all etc, but what sort of level now would mean definite 2A, possible 2A, or unlikely 2A?
I am mainly concerned with numeracy and reading, rather than writing. I know that 2B is the expected level all children will achieve, and that as a summerborn boy, he will be doing very well if he achieves a 2A...
If you could help me now, I promise never to mention SATs again .

[IndigoBell]

Really kids can make an awful lot of progress in Y2.

Most schools target 3 sub levels of progress in Y2, but kids frequently make 4.

So if he's working at a 1a now it's likely he'll get a 2a. A 1b now it's possible he'll get a 2a and a 1c more unlikely (although still possible).

[Purplefi]

I think there are rough ideas, but they all progress at different times and speeds, it's not always straight forward. For instance my son finished Year 1 on a 1B/A, and since Christmas of Year 2, he is now at level 3. Reading just clicked over the summer holidays between Year 1 and Year 2. We haven't been concerned about levels, and getting him to a certain level, we've just tried to follow his interests and make learning interesting, access to resources, talk, read to him, etc. Life long love of learning and a curious mind to me is more important than what level they achieve. I wouldn't worry where he is now, that could even be limiting, he could move 2 sub levels in a year it could be 4 or 5, have fun and doing things with him if you want to help and see where he ends up.

[FirstLeg]

Thanks to you both.

I agree that things can change, I really do. I am also sure that he is doing OK, and he does enjoy school and is by no means hot-housed by me, far from it lol!

It so happens that he is the youngest in his class, and I worry that there are low expectations of him. Children in the same working groups as him (group 3 out of 4) are getting extra help but he is not. I am not sure if that is because he doesn't need the help or because the other children are 'expected' to be further along because they are winterborn girls . He is working at 1B btw.

[blackeyedsusan]

First leg, i would lay money on you mentioning sats again....

[IndigoBell]

I suspect it is because he doesn't need it. A 1b at this stage in Y1 is a very respectable grade.

The others on his table are probably a bit weaker than him, or might have some other reason you don't know about for needing extra help.

Teachers don't expect less of young children. And the school doesn't get to use it as an excuse next year when there SATs come out....

[nowwearefour]

how do people know what level their children are working at or left a school year with? my dd's school seems to want to hide this sort of information from us parents? is this common?

[IndigoBell]

Very common not to tell - and you can see why! It seems to cause so much anxiety..... For no reason.

[FirstLeg]

We got levels at Parents Evening last week. I help out in DS and DD's classes, and I have an idea of who is where, as I take individual ability groups for specific pieces of work, as well as mixed groups for other activities.

I DO have a bit of an issue about low expectations for my DS, I know this. I am trying to see if it is justified lol!

My question about a 2A is based on my daughter's class a few years ago. The school published the SATs results, and not many in her class got 2B's. I knew who they were, and I would hope that DS was working at a higher level than they were next year. Not for anyo sakether than going into Year 3 working at at 2B would be quite a leap from what I saw when my DD went up.

Honestly, I am not pushy. I have never needed to 'have a chat' with my DS's teacher etc etc, nor asked for extra books or anything like that. I just want him to do his best and get any support he needs to achieve his potential, and not fall into the 'turned off school' summerborn thing I have seen with children who fall behind.

[colditz]

As aN EXPERIENCED PARENT - HE'S SIX. PLEASE STOP WORRYING

[FirstLeg]

colditz - I am his parent, of course I worry! He is also a summerborn boy - thus most likely (statistically) to struggle and underachieve at school. I don't want him to feel like he is struggling, as this can set children up for a lifetime of self confidence issues. Therefore I would like to know how he is doing, so either the school, or me, if necessary, can support him. While I am totally not the kind of parent to enrol him in Kumon or get a tutor, I believe that feeling good about how he is doing at school is important - and if he is falling behind his classmates he will feel bad.

If I think he is on course for a 2A, which historically, most of the children at his school get at KS1, then I won't worry. If he is on target for a 2B, then I know he is in a lower-achioeving minority, and I will gently try to help him catch up - so he doesn't feel bad about himself. This is not about ME, this is about HIS feelings - he is a sensitive soul and already is cross that he is the youngest and the smallest in his class.

TMMJ - I do get what you are saying. I also know my child. He will be able to enjoy being 5 and silly but not if he is feeling bad about school. Children's self esteem has a huge amount to do with parenting, but he is also affected by what happens in school. I want it to be positive, not a struggle.

Thus, want to have an idea about whether he needs any support or not...

[squashpie]

My DS made enormous leaps, it seems, in the summer hols between year 1 and 2. We were away for 4 weeks and all we did was read LOTS, both him to us and us to him - a lot. We made up lots of imaginary stories. And we played loads and loads of pop to the shops, tell the time, magic cauldron (all orchard toys). His number bonds etc came on fantastically without us 'trying' at all. And things, for some reason, just seemed to click with him. Reading and those educational toys are fantastic for learning without feeling like it. (even sharpened me up a bit!).

And, I'm told, kids often level out in year 4.

[Clary]

2B is hardly lower-achieving you know.

It's actually the expected level at end KS1. I can't imagine a 6yo will "feel bad about himself" if he only gets a 2B - unless he is getting those feelings from some other source.

Surely he won't know much about it either way? I'm not aware that yr 2 boys make the SATs results (which in any case ar not published now at KS1) their bedtime reading. IME they are more likely to be kickign a football in the back yard.

[FirstLeg]

Hi Clary - 2B may not be low-achieving nationally, but in my DC's school it is - about 50% get 3's, and most of the others get 2A's. I see how children struggle in Yr 3 if they leave Yr 2 at a 2B compared with the rest of the class.

DS would neither know nor care about levels - but what he does care about is being given the same work as his friends, putting his hand up at carpet time and getting the answer right, and being able to read the same sorts of books as most of the class. That is what I want for him, and the measurable way of seeing if this is likely to happen is to see what he is on track for in terms of SATs.

Really, I am not a pushy parent. I am one who cares deeply about her son's self-esteem (as many of those with summer-born boys do). He is rubbish at football (he is much smaller and less co-ordinated by the bigger, older boys in his class...) and not into 'cool' stuff like some of the older boys.

I don't want him to feel rubbish about classroom stuff. DH plays football with him for fun and to help him in that way, I want to make sure he is on track with his maths and english .

FWIW, he is a very happy little boy, and has many skills and talents. A more joyful boy you would be hard to find (very joyful, according to his teacher!). I want to keep it that way .

squashpie - I am sure a lot of the summer-borm issues melt away by Year 4. I just want him to feel good about himself until they do! I don't really 'do' educational games etc, but he is a very inquisitive boy, so we are always talking and trying to give explanations to his (sometimes bizarre) questions

[dietcokeandwine]

FirstLeg, I sympathise. I also have a late summer born boy, now in Y2, at a school which sounds similar in terms of KS1 SATs, and I too have concerns about self-esteem and so on. DS finished Y1 at 1B/1A and is firmly in the 'low ability' group for his year. In fact at a meeting during the summer term of Y1 his teacher made a comment to me along the lines of 'it's good you are so calm about his academic levels, most parents would be really panicking by now' And that's about a child who finished the year either at or above the 'expected' levels nationally - the problem is, they sure as heck aren't the 'expected' levels at his school!

I don't really have any advice to offer other than sympathy I'm afraid but just wanted to let you know that you're certainly not alone in worrying...It is, as you say, nothing to do with your own expectations or paranoias, and far more to do with not wanting them to 'feel rubbish' (DS spent the entire first two years of school telling me he was 'rubbish', Y2 has been a lot better thankfully).

[oldbatteryhen]

50% level 3s? What, in all three subjects?

[FirstLeg]

Dietcokeandwine - you get it! That is exactly how I feel, and how I don't want DS to feel. SATs and levels and all that stuff - they are just adult ways of measuring what the children feel is 'being rubbish' - or not.

I am sorry your DS has felt that way - it is doubly hard for summer-born boys at high achieving schools. I am concerned though, that school expect boys like DS to be lower achieving at this stage, and so are more inclined to boost older children rather than him, even though his self-esteem is just as important.

Thank you for your solidarity though - helpful as some of the previous comments might have been - you are the first to understand what I have been trying to say, and understand that this is about DS's feelings, not my own.

Out of interest, do you know what your DS is going to get in his SATs as he sounds like he was at a similar place in Year 1 as my DS is now. Why do you think Year 2 has been a better year for him?

[FirstLeg]

oldbatteryhen - yes, consistently around 50% level 3's in reading and numeracy. More like 30% level 3's in writing though, if that makes you feel better? . State primary, south east...

[dietcokeandwine]

FirstLeg, I think Y2 has been better for a number of reasons....DS was the classic summer born boy who was not, in all honesty, ready to start school at 4.2 years - reception was difficult, and Y1 only a bit better - but aged 6 things started clicking into place, he matured a lot, and he went into Y2 actually ready to learn, if that makes sense. I really don't think he was ready before. He just seems to have grown into his own skin a bit more, if that makes sense.

NC levels wise - end of Y1 he was 1A reading, 1B numeracy and 1B writing - your DS is probably a bit ahead of that given that he's working at 1B well before the end of the school year. In all honesty I am not exactly sure what school are anticipating DS's KS1 SATs scores to be, but I do know they re-assessed his writing at the end of last term (he has difficulties with fine motor skills, and has regular OT) and he had gone from the 1B they'd assessed him at in July to a 2C by the December. So that's a jump of 2 levels in a few months, which just shows they can make leaps of progress in fairly short spaces of time .

As you say, it's not the actual grades that really matter, it's how the children themselves translate those achievements into their own criteria of 'really good' or 'a bit rubbish' etc etc. And in the longer term things do even out, as squashpie says; it's just how you manage their self esteem levels in the interim! Like your DS, mine really isn't into any of the football or 'cool stuff' either. Although I suspect that, if there was an official NC assessment for Lego, he'd probably get level 4 with his eyes closed

[sarararararah]

Is it a Primary or an Infants' School?

[cory]

I find it very unlikely (totally unbelieveable) that teachers are so fixated with the summerborn/winterborn that they would give extra help to one child and leave another one on the same level simply because of their birthdates. Teachers, unless they are really inexperienced, know perfectly well that children develop at different paces and being winterborn doesn't mean that you "should" be at a certain level or be quicker than a summerborn child, that though statistically more winterborn children will be further along that is absolutely no reason to hold any one summerborn child back. My springborn ds gets extra help and has for a while but that is because he has a disability that his friends' parents probably don't know about. It is perfectly possible that they grumble about it, but I can't send the child in with a big label attached to his forehead. I know that his disability will continue to cause him problems long after the children in his class have outgrown any little difference caused by their birth dates, the teacher knows, the other parents don't know.

[legalalien]

I clicked on this thread to see what it was about and I think you may have solved a mystery for me. DS brings home a range of reading books, variously marked "2A" and "2B". I assumed that the idea was to move from 2A to 2B (and then to 2C....). But we seem to have had mostly 2A ones recently. Maybe they're linked to SATS levels and I have the grading system the wrong way around? (is that something they would mark books in relation to?) [as you can tell this is not the kind of thing I pay much attention to...]

[IndigoBell]

2a is better than 2b. The next level after that is 3c.....

[smee]

legalalien, I could have written that post. I thought DS was going backwards too.