Is it possible to get a level 5 for reading in year 3?

[sali81]

I don't think that's possible, 4 maybe but 5??? Doesn't sound right! I would be grateful if there are any teachers out there who can clear this up for me? Thanks in advance!

[ihatethesnow]

yes I think in theory

[choccyp1g]

yes, I have read with children who are reading at that level, according to the stickers in their reading records. DS was assessed as 4b for reading in Y3, and he was nowhere near the best reader in the class.

[Goblinchild]

We are using the new APP levels to assess in my school, so a very good reader could in theory be a level 5, independent of the year they were in. You'd need serious evidence though.

[sali81]

thanks for answers so far, what is APP?

[nilbymaaf]

Yes, possible. I know of one

[Goblinchild]

Assessing Pupil Progress, gives you criteria for different levels.
This is the site, you have to download the document nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/64884

[Feenie]

Yes, a teacher assessment of level 5 could be given in Y3 - to a very gifted child.

[Normasnorks]

Yes, DS1 was a very strong reader, and was a level 5 in Year 3

He is now Year 6 and they had a reading scores assessment which apparently the teacher had to abandon for him as "the words ran out before he did"

[sali81]

Thanks all!
Goblinchild(love the name!) thanks, that made it more clear(kinda)
well it's very odd because ds got that result in year 3 while I got the same result in year 9(very embarrassing!)

[Feenie]

What level is he now, Normasnorks?

[sali81]

I want to know the answer to Feenies question too Normasnorks if you don't mind?

[Goblinchild]

Well, the levels go up to 8, but if he's now Y6, APP wasn't around when he was Y3 so they must have used different criteria to measure the level.
'"the words ran out before he did" sounds as if they used a decoding reading test, like SWRT or
Schonell
www.thrass.co.uk/downloads/Schonell%20Reading%20Test%201971%20and%20Procedure.pdf

or Burt
www.syntheticphonics.com/Burtreadingtestonweb.pdf

They don't measure comprehension, which is why APP is a more rounded assessment.

[sali81]

I didn't know they measured reading without comprehension but I'm glad they have changed that now, if they can't understand what they're reading it will be frustrating for them I think.

[Goblinchild]

That's why any level is incomplete without accurate, cumulative teacher assessment over a period of time. And why SATS were and are only useful as a snapshot.

[Goblinchild]

Very few, if any, schools would give a child a level based only on the test, however much some parents like the idea. Reading, writing and maths are very complex and a simplistic assessment just doesn't work in isolation.

[sali81]

Yeah you sound like a good teacher with your head screwed on right! I actually was very doubtful of my ds result last year because although he reads books that are above his age it doesn't mean he always understands what he's reading and I sometimes have to explain things but isn't it pointless taking test for reading when they don't always understand what they are reading? I'd rather they took it easy and had that same time to slowly catch up with comprehension maybe. Go at a steady pace.

[madwomanintheattic]

they prefer not to use SATS definitions for kids if they are exceeding expectations where we are, so we get 'reading at about age 12/ spelling about 15' - the recorded NC level is the higher expectation for that KS though, as they won't test higher (interesting to note the new strategy).

it's all a bit odd. dd1 and dd2 have had some ep testing which is supposed to have deciphered reading level, comprehension level etc, but it's all a bit guesswork from what i can make out. but yes, not that unusual in itself.

[Normasnorks]

Yes - I think the 'words ran out' comment referred to a reading test (like Burt). I agree that those sort of tests don't measure comprehension.

English really is his 'thing' though. I'm not sure how it was measured, but when we had parents evening his teacher said he had a reading age of approximately a 17 year old!
His comprehension is excellent too though - average score of about 90% on all his papers.

He has always been a voracious reader though. As I say, it's his 'thing'.

Meanwhile Ds2 is entirely the opposite...

[Goblinchild]

Some children just fly with some areas of the curriculum.
My DS, who was a non-reader for years, is amazing at art/DT and has become a very enthusiastic reader in his teens. My DD was an amazing reader, but stopped reading most fiction in her teens.
Who knows what will happen?

[Normasnorks]

Goblin - yes, you're absolutely right, and I mustn't be at DS2's so far lack of enthusiasm for reading. In fact he's probably perfectly normal for his age (just 8) and in fact having DS1 has skewed my reference point and expectations.

Ds2 is also fantastic at art and drama. He tends to like books if they're part of a 'total experience', so e.g. he has just recently got into Harry Potter big time, and is immersing himself in the DVDs, audiobooks and books. In fact yesterday he was feeling a bit poorly, and sat on the sofa for over an hour reading Harry Potter (first time I have seen him read for this long, and really 'get into' a book) and then he came out and started comparing the book with the film etc, which led to a lovely and very intelligent (IMHO) conversation .

[Goblinchild]

[sali81]

Same here! Ds is more of a reader whereas dd is very arty and is completely the opposite I was surprised at first when I found out dd thought reading is 'sooo boooring!' (my family is known for reading anything)she has good results but it's not so much a hobby like it is for ds!

[cansu]

I am not sure about this. Being able to read fluently and also being able to discuss what you have read still doesn't mean you can infer meanings or refer to the text to support your views or ideas. To achieve level 5, you need to be doing these things as well. It isn't just about vocabulary or fluency.

[Normasnorks]

What are you not sure about cansu? I think most people seem to be agreeing i.e. that being able to read and retell a story is not the same as necessarily understanding all the themes, layers etc.