My daughter in year 1 is being stubborn, non compliant and disruptive, what can I do ???

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my daughter is in year 1. She settled in really well, but recently she's being very lazy in class and quite stubborn. She does have moderate learning dificulties but I'm not using that as an excuse as she's capable of doing far more than she is.
The teacher told me that one day she'd taken 2 hours to coppy one line of writing. When she told her she'd have to stay in at break until she'd done another line, she did it within about 30 seconds.
Her teacher said that she dosn't seem to be doing it to be naughty, as she's always smiling and very polite but just isn't prepared to work hard.
Her P.E teacher said that she spent a lesson doing her own thing despite repeatedly being told to listen etc. She was also disrupting the other children.
I also find it quite hard at times at home getting her to either do as she's asked or even to join in a game and follow my rules. She seems to only want to do her own thing and dosn't like being told what to do. It's a nightmare! Even when I tell her a story, she interupts saying things like "No,a princess not a girl" I tell her if she keeps interupting I'll leave, she always does it again so I leave and she misses out.
I am always consistant with her but she dosn't seem to mind her punishments and dosn't really respond well to positive re-enforcement either.
I'm not sure what to do with her? We had a day out together today and she spent most of the day making stupid noises and just really trying to wind me up. it isn't fun to take her out at all.
Does anyone have any words of wisdome? I really feel I need to act now, as this behaviour won't get better on it's own.

[TechLovingDad]

What are the teacher's doing? Don't they have grey cloud, loss of golden time, or fun time or whatever?

They let her just sit and copy writing for 2 hours? I'd be bored stupid, let alone a year 1 child.

Don't know what to suggest, from your point of view, though.

[bigTillyMint]

You say she has moderate learning difficulties. Some of her behaviour sounds consistent with children who have ASD.

[pooka]

The copying writing sounds incredibly dull.

[mummyloveslucy]

They keep her in at break if she hasn't finnished or make her take a marble out of the class pot. (When the pot is full of marbles the class get a treat)
She could've moved on to something more interesting if she'd finnished her writing, but she just wouldn't.
A lot of the other children aren't liking year 1 saying it's all work and no play.

[mummyloveslucy]

It does sound dull, I agree.

My friend has a son with Asbrugers and she's said that she see's a lot of his traits in my daughter. They have never mentioned this as a posibility though. She's being acessed by an Educational psychologyst.

[nannynobnobs]

Watching with interest if you don't mind; my DD1 is 9 and has a lot of the same traits as your DD. We always have the same consistent rules, and she always acts as if she's never heard of them. Constant annoying noises, deliberate baiting, little benefit from reward/ positive reinforcement!

[TechLovingDad]

My DD always says "all we did was work", she's year 2. When i ask her what she did, she means she did play but it was structured, so it felt like work.

The teacher's need a plan of action, though, it doesn't sound like they know what to do with her either.

[mummyloveslucy]

The teacher did say that actually. We had a meeting and she said that she'd never come accross a child like Lucy before, as she's stubborn yet seems happy and eagre to please at the same time. She said that children of this age always respond to rewards and praise but Lucy dosn't. She said she's been over and over her assessment reports to try to make sence of it.

[mummyloveslucy]

It's also a small school and year 1 and 2 are together. I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but she probubly feels even more behind maybe.
I get there early the other day and a girl in year 2 was doing some work on her own. Her writing was amazing. she had written a story which she read to my daughter. It was a bit strange to thing that she's in the same class as my daughter whol still draws people with no bodies or arms.

[mummyloveslucy]

P.S sorry about all my mistakes. My school report would read: must try harder.

[bigTillyMint]

Hopefully the EP will give you a better idea of her issues soon.

She is also porbably finding it a huge jump into a different way of learning in Y1. I imagine that in Recep she was able to choose what she wanted to do and organise her own learning to a much greater extent. She probably didn't have to comply with rules or work she couldn't see the point of, because learning is play-based in the Foundation Stage. Now the adults are expecting her to do what they say and behave in a certain way, and she probably can't see why she should.

If she is on the Autistic Spectrum, she will need a structured way of working that is very predictable and consistent but simple rules.

Could you ask them to try using a visual timetable (ie pictures of the activities) with her, and particularly a Now and Next card which will help her to understand what is happening in class.

[IndigoBell]

My son has Aspergers - and rewards and punishments don't work for him either.

The teacher definately can't use whole class punishments if he is in the room.

How much experience of SEN does her teacher / school have?

[mummyloveslucy]

I'm not sure. She is the only child in the school, as far as I know with SEN's.
It's a private school. She's been there since she was two in the nursary.
I'd imagine all teachers must be trained in SEN's?
They already make the day very predictable and structured as that's what she likes. That was a recomentation of the EP.

[MollieO]

If your dd and my ds were the same age I'd reckon they were twins separated at birth. Your teacher's description of your dd is exactly the same as ds's year 1 teacher said of him. Every single parents' evening she'd say she had never taught a child like my ds. He was assessed with mild memory problems that affected his reading, spelling and concentration. He has an extra hour a week of individual support to help develop his memory.

We are now in yr 2 and I've not seen much improvement so I've pushed for, and now got, the school SENCO to consider an Ed Psych referral.

Ds works slowly in class so is kept in at break and refuses to do his homework so is kept in at break. I've refused to allow them to keep him in to complete his homework (after the first few times when it had no effect on getting him to do his work). I considered it as treating the symptom not the cause.

Ds noticed a big leap from reception to yr 1 and a less big leap from yr 1 to yr 2. I've noticed a huge change in teacher's expectations in yr 2 and that worries me since I've heard that there is a quantum leap from 2 to 3.

I'm not sure what the answer is for your dd but you aren't alone. Ds has been stubborn since he was born. His nursery teacher always said that he was determined rather than stubborn and re-assured me that there will come a time in his education when being stubborn determined will be a good thing. We aren't there yet.

[mummyloveslucy]

I know it's not ideal, but she's very used to the school and has managed to make friends who understand her. She dosn't like large groups of people or too much noise. She does much better in small groups, she also dosn't like change.
I think I'll see how she goes.

[MollieO]

The school should have one person in charge of the SEN provision in the school.

[MollieO]

I assume she has an IEP. How often is that reviewed? What may have worked in reception won't necessarily work in yr 1.

[IndigoBell]

MLL - Most teachers are very poorly trained in SENs. I'd be very concerned about sending my children with SEN to a school which wasn't good / experienced with them.

I have 2 children on the SEN register and moved school because they weren't being adequately cared for / taught in our local school. I moved from one state school, to the neighbouring state school. And the difference between these two schools is like chalk and cheese.

The second school totally understands both of my chilren's problems and are doing an enourmous amount for them. The first school blamed everying, especially their lack of progress, on their SEN.

So IME if your school aren't teaching / helping your DD then it is worth moving.

But definately don't expect all teachers to know anything at all about SEN.

[mummyloveslucy]

Oh, well at least I'm not alone. My daughters teacher also said that her determination should help her to overcome her problems. (We're not there either yet)

[mummyloveslucy]

That's interesting! I do think it's my daughter's fault though rather than the teachers. She's doing her best but it's always met with resistance. (I know what she's like at home.) The teacher is doing everything she can but she can't make her learn.

[IndigoBell]

MLL - I spent years believing the school when they told me it was my son's fault. It wasn't until they also failed my daughter and were telling me that that too was down to my daughter and not the quality of the teaching that the penny clicked. Maybe if the school failed both my children it was the schools fault and not my children...

It took me a year of thinking about it almost every day to finally move my kids. Mostly because DS has ASD so he didn't want to move.

Now I have found a fabulous school and just wish we'd moved a year (at least) earlier.

BTY the school we moved them to was one that does not get good SAT results, it does not have a good catchment area. It was the school we definately did not want to send our kids to when we bought our house. While the school that failed my children was the school we bought the house for, that had briliant SAT results etc....

Another thing we found that really helped, was that it was a bigger school (3 form entry instead of 1 form entry). The bigger school had more resources (TA's etc) and more experience of SEN. I didn't realise how much my children were missing out on by being in a 1 form entry school.

[rainbowinthesky]

Mummyloveslucy - your dd is at a very academic school iirc. Tbh (and I know I have said this lots of times on your threads so sorry) but I would really move her to a state school or a private one where her needs can be met.

[bigTillyMint]

If she is the only child in the school with SEN, I very much doubt that they will know much about how to meet her needs.

It is NOT her fault.

Your description of her ticks all the boxed for ASD. If this is the case, then she needs a different approach to the other children. The teacher is trying her best, but it doesn't sound like she knows how to meet her needs. Your DD needs a different approach, not more of what they do with the other children!

[mummyloveslucy]

Well, I thought the school were accademic, but apparently they're not. They just get fantastic results. A lot of children join the senior school having failed their 11+. They are ranked within the top 5% of the country for value added performance.
I think they do push them fairly hard but my daughter is only getting reading as homework, that'll probubly change though.

[rainbowinthesky]

The trouble is as you've already seen the chances are everyone in her class will be working at a much higher level than your dd and perhaps your dd is being to notice this.