Anyone remember my *residential* *trip* saga last year?

[luciemule]

Hi - for anyone who remembers my residential trip saga from last year/early this year (and there lots of you).....well, it's the meeting tonight for this year's trip.

This year, after not going to the yr 3 one, DD is now in YR 4 and is quite keen to go, although she knows that if me and DH aren't happy with the sleeping set up, we'll take her away for the w/e instead.

So I spoke to her lovely (male) teacher this morning, telling him I can't make the meeting tonight and he was lovely. He knows why she didn't go last year (not sole use in a youth hostel and rooms for hire to public mixed with the kids rooms).

He said it was fine for me to miss meeting and that if I wanted to arrange a meeting with him and other yr 4 teacher, that would be fine. He said that the YR 4 trip is again to a YH but this time, they have the whole bottom floor and half of the top floor with another school (secondary yr10) staying in other half of top floor. I asked if their area was locked at the main exit and he said no, it wouldn't be as it's a YH and there could be others staying in the YH but he didn't know as yet if the set would be the same.

I don't know what to think but I'm peeed off that another school in the same country wouldn't even consider taking their primary kids on a res trip that wasn't only their sole use and yet, this one seems fine with them going to an open YH in the middle of a city! What would you do?

[luciemule]

No verity - but the public were able to book the room next door if it was free.

Kids aren't allowed to lock the rooms because of fire risk (which I know is greater than being snatched the but still not great).

Apparently, the police tell the YHA that it's best to lock the doors and fire service say don't.

[hocuspontas]

Hi luciemule. I remember last year I was angry on your behalf. What did the parents think who let their children go last time? Were they not bothered? I consider myself a laid-back parent but still wouldn't let my 8 year old go under those conditions. I can't remember if you spoke to county about the security angle. I can't think of anything else to help you, sorry.

[admission]

It is for the school to carry out a risk assessment and for the headteacher and Governing Body to agree that this is satisfactory.

As a governor I would be not happy with any arrangements like this. Our residentials we have sole use of a set of rooms (male / female) and whilst there are other schools on the site they are in other accomodation blocks.

[luciemule]

Hi Hocus and admission.
The parents who let them go didn't actually know/ask about the set up and the school said they didn't want me to tell anyone because they wanted the kids to go.

I spoke to the guy who does outdoor res trips (for the county) and he was crap! He sided with the school and said it was up to them to do the risk assessments and he signed them off.

They made us feel as though we were in the wrong; not them.

[PorkPieLove]

I can't believe this! Worst of all the school asked you not to tell! I wuld have bloody told everyone of my DD's classmates parents!

No way would I alow that...my DD is in year 2 and I see the year 3's and 4 and they're tiny still. Far too vlnerable to go away in a set up like that.

Tell all the other parents! I would fume if I wasn't told this by anoher parent.

[luciemule]

Well - spoke to the two teachers going on trip on Friday night and they said that couldn't tell the YHA to provide sole-use only and that there would be rooms spare (possibly) that members of the public could book. We said that unless they could guarantee the rooms wouldn't be booked by the public, then dd wasn't going.

They said "okay, it's up to us". So once again, dd misses out because the school won't be robust about telling the YH to book out the other rooms so the public can't book them. We're moving next year and so won't be at that school anymore (thank goodness) but the middle school DD is moving to have a trip to Norfolk to an adventure centre. They have sole-use and it looks fab - dd can't wait. Nearer the time for this trip though, we'll take her a weekend to London and the city where the trip is off too so at least she'll have fun going away and be able to do similar things that her friends will do on the trip.

[catinthehat2]

Lucie, it's hard to be right when you are on your own like this. I remember the last saga.

So I shall say it again:

you are right to say no.

[AgonyBeetle]

I am at this -- what, concretely, do you think is going to happen?

Both my ds and my dd1 have gone on school trips both in the UK and abroad, staying in youth hostels and hotels. It's never occurred to me to expect the school to book more rooms than they have children for -- wtf is that all about? Then other parents would legitimately be complaining that the cost of each trip was inflated far beyond what could be considered reasonable.

I really can't see what basis you have for disagreeing with the school's risk assessment. Your child isn't missing out because the school aren't being robust, she's missing out because you're being paranoid.

[luciemule]

Agonybeetle - the school refused (last year) to show us any risk assessment, saying that it would change up until the last minute.

Yes,agony, we know the risk of anything happening to dd is low but the horrifc nature if something did (ie, someone goes into their room, which is unlocked as happened in France and Devon)is unthinkable.

I know of other schools within the same county who wouldn't even consider NOT going to a sole-use place.

We aren't being paranoid. would you seriously allow your children to sleep in an unlocked room, with a room of 5 blokes next door??? The weird thing is, a parent can't even help with class reading in a school without being CRB checked, yet in this case, the school are quite willingly allowing the kids to sleep unsupervised (once teachers are asleep) in unlocked rooms sited next to public rooms.

[AgonyBeetle]

Of course it's theoretically possible, but then just about anything is possible, up to and including alien abduction.

It is possible that a predatory child rapist/murderer might be in the habit of booking rooms in Youth Hostels on the off-chance of a group of kids of a particular age or gender happening to sleep in a nearby room. Or he might actually be a member of staff at the youth hostel and have access to he master key. Or might break in through the window, having watched them all day. All these things are possible, but they are staggeringly unlikely.

Your child is several orders of magnitude more at risk of death or serious injury just crossing a road, or being driven in a car. But presumably that doesn't make you stop for thought every time you walk out of your front door?

Meanwhile the level of paranoia that you crank up, and the possible extra costs and paperwork involved in further reducing an already infinitesimally small risk makes it much harder for schools to put on these kinds of trips and increases the chances that they'll just say, "sod it, it's not worth it". At which point your dd who goes on trips with you will be fine, but all the other dc whose parents don't have the time, the experience or the cash to organise similar will miss out.

Of course schools and other organisations should take all reasonable steps to identify and reduce all the obvious dangers. But this is a prime example of someone getting completely hysterical about a tiny risk while cheerfully ignoring much bigger risks (viz driving, crossing roads) every day.

[EduStudent]

We had a school trip to a French youth hostel that didn't have locks on the doors.

However, at least 2 teachers stayed awake on every floor out in the corridor all night, and we were 12/13 years old.

This sounds v odd. Would teachers be staying awake on duty all night?

[luciemule]

agony - you could have worded your point without being arsey towards me.

edu - last year, they said there was no possibility of staying awake all night due to health and safety (which I agree with) however, they could stagger it and do shifts. If that were the case, I would be perfectly happy. It's when the staff go to bed, then nobody is supervising the 8 yr old kids.

[seeker]

So, you won't let your child sleep in a multi-occupancy room that might be next door to a room a member of the public is sleeping in. Okkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyy............

[prettybird]

As usual, seeker, you and I have similar viewpoints on the "risk"

I don't think I have the energy to even start....

[luciemule]

No - it's all sorted. She's not going now and we'd rather that than have huge arguements again with the school.

[seeker]

Is there time for you to change your mind?

[luciemule]

apparently not - they said we had to pay the deposit (it's £175 for 2 nights) soon.

Money isn't the problem though..even though it is a rip off.

A child who joined the school last year went so they must have scope for going at the last minute.

[clam]

I agree the risk is pretty slim but am that the school asked you not to tell other parents your concerns! If they were totally happy about it, then why the secrecy?

As a teacher, however, I would not organise a trip with sleeping arrangements like this. There are plenty of other alternatives.

[MrsMorgan]

Why are they using youth hostels at all of if it means that a situation like this arises ??

My dd (yr6) is going on a residential trip next week, mon-fri at a cost of £150. It is at an education centre in Oxford.

The group going have sole use of the site and there are two dorms, with a teachers room at either end. Doors to the dorm are unlocked, but doors to that building are locked.

£175 for two nights is alot too.

[luciemule]

Exactly Clam but the school have been using the same two YHs for the yr 3/4 trips for years and for that reason, they aren't willing to change the venue.

[AgonyBeetle]

I"m not being arsey, I'm simply pointing out that it makes no sense to get so aerated over a tiny risk when you take much bigger risks on a daily basis without batting an eyelid.

But each to their own.