I am beyond struggling

(163 Posts)
ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 12:09:01

dc is 12 and a fucking pain in the arse

he takes the piss, winds me up, blames me for their bad behaviour, says he can't wait to move out, encourages his younger brother to be naughty, does not do as he is told, told me to shut up, said he wouldn't do his homework etc etc etc

I have had lots of advice, I felt I couldn't do if it involved outside people - and I know it is me that is not up to the job.

I have tried ignoring but I can't keep my temper all the time.

I was ill in hospital twice last week through chest pains brought on my stress

I can barely look at him

I want out and I have had enough

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 12:11:34

giving in as just made them not take us seriously

dh thinks I am too strict at times and that has got me nowhere

dc says he will behave if I don't shout and only misbehaves because I shout.

fucking behave then!!

Charley50 Tue 18-Feb-14 13:08:26

Choose your battles carefully then you don't need to give in. I am making a massive effort not to shout at the moment and it is working to an extent. As long as behaviour isn't dangerous let it lie for a bit? I am also trying not to criticise at present. It's easy to get into the habit of criticising children but it is very damaging. Good luck and I hope your DH is supportive of you.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 13:25:40

It's important that you and DH present a united front. Sit down with him and come up with a strategy for parenting DS, including how and when you will discipline him. Then stick to that. I know it is terribly hard, especially when you're stressed, to not lose your temper and shout. (I've screamed at dd when going through rough patches mental health wise.) However I do experience that if I stay calm there is a much better chance of getting her cooperation. Maybe you and DH can read a parenting book together for some ideas? I like Kevin Leman's books.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 13:34:20

boys sent to their rooms after lunch

dd had hers later then she made a birthday card and later ds1 asked if he could so they were together then ds2 asked so all three fairly happily making cards while I'm left tearful, in pain, feeling like shit and knowing I have failed again. just shouted at them and said I was sick of them treating me like shit all the fucking time.

he has lost his lap top until march 4th and what is the point. days get added on for bad behaviour but when you keep adding on days it clearly isn't working is it.

ds1 treats me like shit then after I have lost I big time they later then behave and get on together whereas I am feeling like shit

sick of telling them the same stuff over and over again.

I just do not want to live like this anymore

seriously considering going on high dose ads as then I won't care about their behaviour when I am drugged to the eyeballs.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 13:35:30

they only start to behave when they have pushed me to breaking point.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 13:58:03

That happens here too. DD and I will have a huge fight, half an hour later she is acting as if nothing happened while I'm still shaking.

If taking his laptop away is not making any impression on ds1 then you need to find something else that will. You also need to pick your battles. Decide what is non-negotiable and what other things you can just let slide. It's not worth fighting with them over every little thing.

Does ds1 get some one-on-one attention from you and DH? Try to improve your relationship with him when things are going ok, that will help to defuse the situation when things go wrong. Can you involve him e.g. in cooking supper with you?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 14:11:53

LastingLight - what do you do or say to your DD when she is then fine and you are left shaking?

DS1 and I used to be so close then I had DC3 and he seemed to massive and in the last 18 months he has been a real PITA. I love him so much but I can't even look at him at the moment as I feel if I carry on normally he has got away with treating me like crap. I am so tired, physically and emotionally, and it has been like this for months.

He says we go nowhere and do nothing but we can't afford what we used too as we had to find school fees due to DS1 being bullied and DH's new job pays a lot less than his previous one. Nothing I do it good enough and he is just so bloody sarcastic.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 15:14:06

Sometimes I get upset at her over it and then I get told that she "has put it behind her"! When I can pull it off (not often enough) I will talk to her once I have also calmed down, have a discussion about why everybody got so upset, and apologise for shouting at her. More and more frequently she will apologise back.

I'm just throwing out ideas for you here, maybe something in there might help... Does ds1 get enough exercise? Does he do any sports? Is he involved in any other activities like Scouts? Does his school have a counsellor that you can maybe go to for mediation, or you and DH together for some parenting advice? Does ds1 have any privileges and responsibilities because he is the eldest? (I assume he is?)

I'm repeating myself here, but you and DH must really work as a team. He MUST make it clear to your ds that his behaviour towards you is unacceptable.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 15:40:17

I just talked to him. Apologised for shouting and swearing saying I shouldn't have done it but doesn't excuse what he has done to me all day fortnight. He said he behaved as he did as he is annoyed he has nothing to do and annoyed I made them get up and ready to leave at 8.30am. I told him that was down to him as he lost his school bag. He then said he was annoyed he had to do the dishwasher as dd doesn't do it (not true, she has done it more than the boys for the last two weeks) and I asked him if I should do everything?

It just escalates as I find it hard to let most things go and then when I don't tell off a naughty/mean child I get told I prefer the other one and he/she is allowed to do X when they aren't.

DH rarely tells the kids their behaviour to me is unacceptable as he thinks that makes me even more less likely to be listened too.

We do nothing out of school for various reasons and not an option at the moment unfortunately. I know he is bored. I have told him if all he can do is occupy himself with his lap top (confiscated until March) then I may as well get rid of everything in his room and move him to the small room. He had nothing to say to that.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 15:54:46

Sorry I don't agree with DH. By keeping quiet he is giving them his implicit permission to treat you badly.

Draw up a rota of who does what chores when, then they can't complain that one does more than the others.

I think you are going to have to make a plan for ds to get involved in some activities somehow so that he has an outlet for his energy and doesn't take all his frustrations out on you. Does he have friends over to visit, or go to friends' houses?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 17:05:11

I will draw up a rota. We used to have one but if they had to do the dishwasher/hoover etc more than once a day they were not happy. Then I tried payment per job but they chose to go without then help. Then we tried pocket money if they did jobs without fuss. Didn't last very long. Currently calling for volunteers for X job and for a week kept a list of who did what as they kept saying they had done the most. At the end I showed them who did the most and they (DD, 2 weeks running) was given a small pocket money bonus.

Tomorrow we will go out once I have worked out what we can do that is cheap/free but will tire them out and suit all three ages.

Only one local friend (siblings) and they are banned atm as one injured my child while here.

They were meant to be going to PIL for a day so I could paint but had to cancel that when I spent all my money getting their shoes and cancelled fun days out due to behaviour.

Thanks for your support cakewine.

Kittymalinky Tue 18-Feb-14 17:26:16

Is it worth starting from scratch again.

Tell him he has all his privileges back. Sit down as a family, discuss some non negotiable rules (be polite, do your chores etc) make them simple and not too many (you also have to try hard to stick to them esp the being polite bit even if you do want to rip their heads off)

Then draw up a system of consequences which may be different for each child depending on their age, explain to them why the consequences are different (ds1 may have his laptop removed for hours/a day, dd might have a different consequence)

I'd give then a warning before a sanction. When they break a rule calmly say 'that's your warning' if they do it again then say 'you've now lost xyz'. When they argue just keep saying 'I'm not arguing with you, you did this, I have you a warning, you carried on and therefore xyz is happening' after that a simple 'I'm not arguing about it' and keep repeating till they get bored!

Disclaimer: I'm not a mum to a preteen but I teach 25 of them and this works for us (it's a very challenging school with lots of behaviour problems). We also use lots of praise and rewards that you might want to add in. Might be worth a go.

longtallsally2 Tue 18-Feb-14 17:37:14

Yy to starting again, but I wouldn't give the laptop back yet. You will feel powerless if you can't stick to one thing.

All days out cancelled because of behaviour?? Perhaps you could revoke this or amend it: you seem to have some large/drastic punishments but not smaller ones. Sit him down and explain that he is growing up but he is still 12 and so there are still consequences for behaviour - bored or not. There are still jobs to be done too, and it would be brilliant if they could all help - there may be rewards, or just a happy mum. Remind him that a happy mum means a happy house - it's in their interests to cheer you up.

How about relenting and going swimming instead of big days out - it's tiring but not a major treat, if you feel they haven't earned that. And then perhaps walk into town for a drink, but go to a free museum first. You only have to stay 15 minutes, don't try to do the whole thing.

Sympathy. Parenting preteens is as exhausting as toddlers in some ways - and I only have 2 of them, not 3.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 17:40:44

How old are your dd and other ds?

I like Kitty's idea of starting fresh.

The fact that they could all sit peacefully together making cards is a good sign. Are there other activities like that which they can all get involved in?

I take my hat off to you for coping with 3 dc's, I have only one and some days I can't even handle her! I do find that if I give her some undivided attention then she is better behaved the rest of the day. E.g. this afternoon I was busy studying and she wanted to show me how she did a maths problem. I was really concentrating and didn't want to be interrupted so blew her off, then realised that's not right and interrupted what I was doing to spend 5 min with her - cooperative child the rest of the afternoon and evening.

RandomMess Tue 18-Feb-14 17:44:47

Does he not have any friends who can come around?

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 17:50:51

Also wanted to say that you must try and catch them doing something good and give positive feedback. E.g. if ds1 spent time with his siblings without causing trouble you can tell him that you noticed and appreciated that. If they get ready for school on time and without being nagged, thank them and point out that this is so much more pleasant for all of you.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 18:05:33

DH home. He has spoken to the boys.

I have told dh I have had enough and one of these days I might just go. He told me to go then. We have spoken and it isn't what we want. I told him I feel like I am letting him down as he probably thought he was getting a great mum for his kids (used to be a nanny and was really good but of course I didn't have PND then.) He just said he can't understand why it is the same every holiday as he would love to be at home. I just feel like I have been stabbed in the heart as he really does blame me and thinks it would be great to be at home full time. Proof he would be better than me as a SAHD.

No way I could get a job that pays enough to pay all our bills.

I have got things ready for a trip out tmw to Leeds Castle. Have tickets so free, will make a picnic and hope things are better.

I can't afford days out every day, don't see why I should take them when they misbehave and then we get the vicious circle situation. DS has lost his kit which will be £100 to replace if it doesn't turn up and there is only money for bills, no extras. Even when they do go out if they do behave while out (not a given) they play up once home again.

Nothing works. I think, no I know, it is all my fault and I think they would all, DH included, be better off without me. I even thought about getting meds so I could be drugged up enough not to care about their horrible behaviour to me.

We tried talking. DD moaned DS2 won't leave her alone and keeps going in her room. She moans if he breathes within the same county as her. DS1 moans DS2 goes in his room without asking but some toys are in there as no room in DS2's room (note - bring duplo downstairs, better than the moaning) and DS2 just gets upset saying DD and DS1 don't like him.

We live in the middle of nowhere and there is nothing but a field to walk too to do anything. Stupid planning on our part.

Swimming is an option for Thursday/Friday though tbh I have only taken then twice on my own as I am scared of water.

No one to come round. Another failure on my part. I had PND after each birth so didn't really go out and once people knew I wasn't well they stopped talking to me at playgroups so no chance to make friends and I just stopped going out. Lost all confidence at being sociable and the house felt full enough with 3 kids. Also my middle one did not cope well with lots of people so it never happened.

Kids are ds - 12, dd - 10 and ds - 8.

I am devastated at dh annoyance at me. Feel crap I have shouted and sworn and that ds1 says I am always like it and just feel like crying. I am just not doing anything right and ds2 probably has problems and while I will do everything I can to help him I juts don't' know if I am cut out for that as well when I am not cut out for motherhood full stop.

I feel I have poured my heart out and I just know I will regret it. I just have no one else sad.

LastingLight Tue 18-Feb-14 18:26:13

(((HUGS))) Motherhood is not all it's cracked up to be, is it? It can be demanding, and hard, and sometimes you think you made the biggest mistake of your life. However... you sound depressed to me, not just stressed. I'm well at the moment but have been quite depressed during parts of poor dd's life and boy did she suffer. She also reacts to me being unwell by really pushing my buttons. Finally finding the right combination of meds plus talk therapy made a huge difference for me. Maybe you should go and see your gp? The point of meds is not to drug you up so you don't care. The point is to help you function better so that life can be better for you and your family.

I hope you have a very nice outing tomorrow. I love castles. (I'm South African, we don't have those.) When someone misbehaves, try taking a deep breath and counting to five before you react.

You don't have to take them out every day, we certainly don't go out every day during the holidays. Some days the treat is renting a dvd and making some popcorn. Or baking pancakes or cupcakes.

Think very carefully before you take away outings as punishment, as you all need to get out of the house, have a change of scenery and blow off some steam.

Ask DH for ideas of things you can do with the dc's.

I know it feels as if they will be better off without you (and I have had that conversation with my DH too) but it really isn't true.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 18:34:19

The thought of being depressed again terrifies me.

I find it so hard to be nice to ds and even talk to him when he has been horrible to me all day.

definitely going out tomorrow.

Thank you flowers.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 22:03:01

Feeling shit that I shouted "....every fucking week" at my son. Swearing is really bad, isn't it? sad

RandomMess Tue 18-Feb-14 22:14:29

Your dc must have friends at school? Your eldest is old enough to arrange seeing his friends whether at home or at their house. I wonder if you are taking on too much responsibility for "entertaining" them. Similar with your 10 year old really, she must have favourite friends at school - she is capable of handing over a note asking for friend's parent to contact you on TEL no: to arrange for them to get together.

I think you need to accept that you are finding this particularly hard because of past depression (have been there) but your eldest is acting very young for his age in some ways - obviously that's just in my opinon from what you've posted.

When I take mine out we usually bring 1 friend along so there are 4 altogether and most often it's for the eldest one then the younger 2 pair up more naturally.

RandomMess Tue 18-Feb-14 22:16:01

Children do need to lear that all people have limits to their tolerance - even their Mums wink swearing occasionally isn't going to kill him or leave him scarred.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 18-Feb-14 22:22:40

Friends and my kids haven't really worked out. They often say they have none then other times they have. I used to be so sociable and confident. Then I had kids and got ill. I'm Almost scared of people or at least making friends. It never worked out once they knew I was ill, because of me not making mum friends my kids haven't learnt either. Such a bad deal they got me as their mum sad

longtallsally2 Tue 18-Feb-14 22:55:00

Oh sweetheart, you do sound down. For the record, it isn't a bad deal that they have you as their mum. It is unlucky that you live in the middle of nowhere, and that your dh doesn't support you and that you didn't make friends when the children were small (I had a very similar situation, having moved to a new area to have the kids and then not making new friends - know exactly how that feels, and the extra pressure it then puts on you and your kids).

Please remember that the February half term is the worst. It's the month where most people feel fed up, our vitamin D levels are low, the SAD effect is at its most powerful and the kids are at their grumpiest too.

It must hurt you a lot that your dh isn't stepping in. It probably would only take a few words from him, to the kids, to make you feel a lot better. From his point of view, he clearly thinks that he would have to take on a lot to sort things out - so he stays clear. Pnd is very very hard for some people to understand, and they remain bemused by what is just so hard to do.

Is there any chance that your dh could drop a day a week at work, if you went back to work, and pick up some of the slack? Or book his annual holiday at Easter, and he can entertain the kids then, giving you chance to have a good break go off and do a course, or something constructive? You sound as if you really, really need some you time. Somewhere to snuggle up with a good book, or dig a ditch or be massaged in a spa or whatever recharges your batteries.

For the record, swearing isn't always bad. Sometimes it's a signal to anyone who will listen, that they have crossed a boundary/pushed us too far. Your ds1 is old enough to understand that. I swore a lot when I had pnd. I have discussed it with the kids, and they understand why I did it. They know that if they are really unhappy and swear too, I will ask them about it. If they are just messing around or bored, then I will deal with it differently than if they are really upset/being bullied/hurt etc.

Hope that tomorrow is a better day for you all. Can you agree on a no-squabbling pact with the kids before you leave? Or at least ask them to. You can be honest and tell them that you have been feeling down, but that you would like tomorrow to be a new day, and for you all to have a good time together. Set them a challenge: how about a silly word, which you are all allowed to say if someone is being grumpy? Or that you will buy ice creams all round if you can all make it to lunchtime without moaning?

Best of luck.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 19-Feb-14 08:00:34

I am up making chocolate chip muffins for the packed lunches I will make next as we are going to Leeds Castle for the day. Tipping it down but we are still going.

I have a headache but hopefully that will pass.

I am wondering if it is the tablets the doctor gave me to take for a week that is making me feel worse than normal as my patience is non existent. I swore as I hoped it would be enough to make DS1 realise I am at the end of my rope. Same reason I said to DH I wanted to go.

DH is really good, he is just fed up of me not being able to cope and having to come home and hear it having had me text in the day too. I do that for help as I don't know what to do most times.

I have decided I will tell them that if they all behave as they should while we are out then I will reinstate all privileges and we will start again. I won't tell them that it is me that escalates things by shouting and I should be calm as I am meant to be grown up but I know I make things worse through being crap at this. I was such a great nanny too sad mind you I didn't have PND then.

Next week I am starting volunteering at school for one afternoon a week so that will be good. I am stressing about being out of the house blushhmm but I need to do something and I have said I will do it now.

No option for dh to do a four day week but I will certainly talk to him about taking some time off for me to go away for a couple of days. He booked me a night away once and I got into bed to sleep at 3pm and just cried so came home and he stayed.

We did used to have a word we would say when I felt DS1 had gone too far, and him to me, but as everything else it doesn't last as I forget. Tiredness just effects everything I go and sometimes I have to write on my hand or stick a post in on the cupboard to keep me focussed.

I want the old me back. Feel I am lost forever.

DS1 has been down and spoke nicely to me. Both being very careful I feel. He has no clue I sat in his bed last night, stroked is head for ages, kissed him and told him I loved him. Everything changed when we had dc3 and tbh we should have stopped at 2 but I wouldn't be without him, I am just saying it made a huge difference.

longtallsally2 Wed 19-Feb-14 08:28:53

Mmmm, chocolate chip muffins smile

Toffee you sound so depressed - medically, I mean, not just low. Is your GP treating you for depression as well as stress? Either way, can you show your GP or your dh this thread? You describe your sadness so clearly here.

I honestly do know how you feel, having battled with pnd, long after I should have sought help. I still struggle with the boundless energy of my two dss, whom I love to distraction, but find them very hard going too - and I only have two of them! Your volunteering is a really good step, and will help you get back in touch with you. It sounds as if getting away to a hotel or spa would be the wrong thing for you, when you do get a break. You need to be with people, occupying your mind and rediscovering that you can be useful/competent and achieve so a course or extended volunteering somewhere would be ideal. (For me, getting back to work saved my sanity. I am lucky enough to live in a city, so managed to get various part time jobs and to do some volunteering too. I function so much better at home if I have an out-of-home persona too.)

Can you take 5 minutes when it is quiet to tell your ds what you have just told us, about sitting with him whilst he is asleep? It's frightening for kids to know that you aren't coping, but they will manage, as long as they know you love them. Life isn't perfect and it's quite possible to survive all sorts of difficulties. In fact, take five minutes to give them all a hug - even if they think they are too big for that sort of thing! In fact, as them, each of them, to give you a hug, and say thank you to them for it. Tell them that you love them - even if you shout at them. And then enjoy those muffins too!

Thinking of you.

LastingLight Wed 19-Feb-14 08:32:03

Can you pm me a chocolate muffin smile

I really hope you all have a fabulous day out. Don't expect perfection, but do go into it with the attitude that they will be good and you will be able to sort out any issues without becoming overly upset.

longtallsally2 Wed 19-Feb-14 08:32:48

You are not lost forever, though you feel lost now. There is a fog around you, which means you can't see where you are or where you are going. But if you can reach out to those around you, hold each other, and eat chocolate, it can't make things worse, and the fog will lift, one day.

PS Remember to save a muffin, and a hug for your dh too. He needs to give more to you, but he probably doesn't know where or how to begin, and may well be confused and scared too. Holding each other is a temporary break from all the confusion, and is nice too - like chocolate! smile

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 19-Feb-14 13:10:06

cake in lieu of choc muffin grin.

Just sat in car having picnic after walking all round the grounds and castle. Kids were chased by 3 geese!

I told DS about sitting on his bed and he was shocked he'd not woken up. This is the child I could change his pyjamas, nappy and bed all without waking when he was 2 and still sleeps through everything!

When I worked for DH for two days I felt great. Not just mum.

I managed to ignore as much as possible when the kids were being pests and I've realised I am snappy and assume the worst sometimes.

I think DH and I are stressed with stuff we can't talk about or change and he's also had enough of me moaning about the kids behaviour. He keeps saying it is normal but it gets too much when it is every day.

Kids want to go home so bed go.

Muffins for all

LastingLight Wed 19-Feb-14 15:55:02

It sounds as if you had a good day, I'm glad.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 19-Feb-14 20:28:07

Thank you.

I give it 8/10 with 10/10 being brilliant with kids behaving and me coping fine so an 8 is huge for us.

Got home to two mice from the cats. One in the hall with its tail detached and one in the kitchen. DS1 got rid of both while I was pathetic on the front garden. No flies on him "can I have my lap top back now, Mummy?!" grin. I said I would consider it when I had talked to daddy. I then had DS1 pitch to me as he likes pitching.

I got rid of the mice
I stayed with you while in the maze
I guided you through the grotto
Your hair is looking very nice
I played with DS2

In the end he hasn't had anything back as we don't allow screens past a certain time and dh and I still feel it is wrong to giving it him now. We were out most of the day and the point of consequences are they are meant to have an affect. So many times we give a time he has to be without X and then give in as he is very convincing but it doesn't make him behave any better so I am stumped as to what to do. He lost it yesterday until March 4th. It was one day, then 2, then 4, then 5, then a week added making nearly 2 weeks without his stuff, so he doesn't seem to get it. He needs to stop now and when you add on 3 or more increases then why on Earth isn't he stopping the unacceptable behaviour?

LastingLight Thu 20-Feb-14 06:55:29

Were the mice alive? One of ours likes to bring mice into our room in the middle of the night, play with them for a while and then let them go. Either we catch the mouse and let it go or it crawls into a corner and die, leading to THE SMELL.

I agree with you that one should follow through on consequences otherwise they learn nothing. It's difficult to know why he isn't responding, I can only assume that the laptop is not that important to him. Other consequences we have invoked were grounding for a week, going to "jail" (3 hours in the bathroom with nothing to do) and extra chores. The ultimate punishment for dd would be if we didn't allow her to read, but we've never done that.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Thu 20-Feb-14 12:28:05

The mice were dead. Boy Cat had brought s live one in but he took it out when I said too.

8.15 this morning DS1 knocked on my door and asked for his lap top. I've had the face pulling, moaning that DD has been mean and not lost anything and answering back. I've told him he's lost. Everything for nearly two weeks so to be allowed to earn it back on day 3 is very lucky.

Kids at I laws til 3 though DD is sleeping over. He's been told if he behaves he can have his iPod back once home and then his lap top if he behaves all afternoon. Just feel I'm doing it all wrong by backing down but it doesn't work to take it off him , I don't want the grief, I've already says he can earn it back.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Thu 20-Feb-14 12:29:43

He loaded the dishwasher without asking so he is trying. Behaving because he wants something though and not because I've asked him too, I've been ill or because he should!
He's also refused to pay for his lost games kit but he'll get no choice in that.

LastingLight Thu 20-Feb-14 17:36:29

I think it's ok to let him earn his stuff back as long as you don't make it too easy.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Thu 20-Feb-14 20:59:02

I did make him wait. I was a bit disappointed that he snapped he had only had it an hour when I said it was time to come off it now (back at 6pm ish) and that he isn't allowed on it before 9am in the morning and has to ask me first he stropped What about DSis?

DH reminded him he should be waiting 12 days to get it back so he needs to be careful how he speaks to me. He knows if there is a repeat of the worst behaviour we had the other day I will just take it away without any warning.

longtallsally2 Fri 21-Feb-14 07:49:38

Toffee, have you written down the rules for him? When mine are niggling about it and trying to renegotiate basics - we don't have computers before 9am etc - then I sit down and write out the basics, and go through them with them. I try to frame some of the rules as positives too. It takes those rules outside of me, so that I just need to point to them, rather than explain again what our rules are. It's also quite helpful for me in reviewing what I expect and what should go top of the list,

(Do keep a copy in case they get 'accidentally' scrumpled up/lost.)

BellaVita Fri 21-Feb-14 08:06:16

You mentioned swimming? They should be old enough to go into the pool without you - I see your youngest is 8. I would take them and let them get on with it whilst you spectate with a coffee and a magazine. Win win situation, you don't have to get in the water and they have some fun time.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 08:37:04

Printing out the rules is a very good idea and something we used to have on the wall but another mother came to stop her child off years ago and saw them, had a cats bum face and I took them down as I felt embarrassed.

The 8 year old can't swim fully safely yet so I would have to go in the water but I will bare it in mind. Had planned a quiet day in today as I am still feeling a bit bleurgh and felt like I was going to pass out in the car yesterday. I have to phone the bus station to se if DS1's kit has turned up so if it has we will go and get that but otherwise we will see what the day goes like. Doing Lego with DS2 later. Only 2 kids today as DD with PIL and generally it is always easier with two.

LastingLight Fri 21-Feb-14 08:54:19

I find that screens can be quite addictive. DH and I tend to be glued to our laptops and I don't always react positively when DD wants attention while I'm on the internet generally browsing MN. So I need to carefully monitor my own behaviour as I cannot expect something from DD that I cannot do myself.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 09:12:54

He his huffing as it is 9am and I haven't said he can have it yet. I told him it wouldn't be before then, it wouldn't be then. He needs to watch the attitude as I am spending time ringing round about his kit when I should be writing to a sick friend and he is lucky he has it back at all!

BellaVita Fri 21-Feb-14 09:19:49

Let him get on with the huffing. Just go about your day. IGNORE.IGNORE.IGNORE.

LastingLight Fri 21-Feb-14 09:32:43

You need to tell him exactly when he can have it - 10:00, or when he completed certain chores. Then he knows and he doesn't have to hang around you being annoying.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 10:56:41

He has had it for about 45 minutes and is now baking a cake.

DS2 stropped and was rude so he has lost the computer for the day and has been sent to his room to calm down. He is 8.

I am still suffering with chest discomfort so not prepared to have any nonsense today.

longtallsally2 Fri 21-Feb-14 11:01:01

Sounds really positive. One of our houserules is "you can ask, and the answer might be yes, or no. Smile and move on . . . "

They do huff of course, but soon learn to do it out of sight/earshot.

Enjoy that cake.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 11:39:33

What has worked well is when I tell them I want time to think and if they push me for an answer right now it is definitely a no.

Newyearchanger Fri 21-Feb-14 11:50:41

I find it difficult to imagine you are talking about a child the same age as mine.... 12.
The way you speak about him and argue with him makes it seem as if he is much older in his ways than my ds..... I wonder if that is because my ds is the youngest and your ds is the oldest.

I don't have any issues with my ds he is very well behaved but I am struck by the fact they are the same age yet I don't have any adult style conversations with him...I very much still treat him as a child . He is yr 7.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Get-Out-My-Life-First/dp/1846680875/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

I've just been reading this book as I have a stroppy 12 year old too. It doesn't give advice as such, but maybe gives you a bit more insight to what is going on in their heads.

It sounds as if you are all pretty unhappy - that's not your fault.

I think trying to draw a line in the sand and move on to start afresh is a good idea. I find that he is definitely pushing our buttons but when he isn't, he is growing into a lovely young man underneath, that's what I hang on to when he is being a sh!te! I also realise that he behaves very well in school and clearly needs to vent sometimes too. We had a bit of an argument the other day as I told him that they way he was behaving was making me want to punch him (i wouldn't tho) and he said that I couldn't hit him as it is against the law as he is a child - we then got into a heated debate about him wanting the best of both worlds as he wants the freedom to behave as a grown up but the privilidges of a child too and that he neded to make up his mind which he wanted. i.e. that with maturity and trust came responsibilities too and if he wanted a life with none of that then he would get the benefits of being a child but would be expected to do what he was asked.

Anyway - it ended on good terms but it made me appreciate the dilemma that he is living with too. i do think life is hard for them and I also think that they can only be horrible to the ones they really love as they know that we will still love them regardless and I think that that actually must be a good thing?

Good luck with it all and I hope you get yourself some help too. It is important to get outside even when the weather is rubbish. What about trying to do the NHS c25k running programme - you could do that with all the kids, get them all out and get fit at the same time? Exercise definitely helps my mood and with all that cake and muffin baking maybe it will be required! grin

Newyearchanger - their hormones and maturity are all at different levels. My 13 year old son is still more compliant and childlike than my 12 year old - a mixture of their nature and hormones too I think.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 11:59:02

We definitely have tried to start again.

I have just asked him to go to the post box for me. Face pull, slight sigh. I just reminded him he has been allowed to make a cake and go on his lap top as his choices and now I would like him to help me by posting the letter. 3 minutes of his time. I know he is on his lap top and doesn't want to come off it but tough and I have told him he is on it too much and addicted if coming off it is such a problem.

I have told him we were in today and normally he moans if I say we are going out. Can't win with him!

I am still not 100% well but pleased I am staying calm and not getting wound up. When I am firm, fair and confident in my decisions the kids respond much better. I am just lacking in confidence most of the time.

He is 13 next month.

I think the fairness is a big thing for them.

I also think that going back on a punishment is not always a sign of weakness if you do it for the right reason and explain that. i.e. I've thought about it and decided that taking away your lap top for 2 weeks wasn't fair so I've decided to give it back early but I expect a certain standard of behaviour from you etc.

I also think that taking too much away leaves them without hope therefore doesn't help. i.e. losing your laptop for a day is apunishment - if you already have lost it for 2 weeks, that feels like an eternity so the incentive to behave to get it back is lost - 2 weeks seems like forever at that age.

Does he socialise on-line? If so, taking away his method of communicating with friends is a double punishment i.e. he is effectively "grounded" too.

and re the face pulling - ignore! as long as he does it, doing it with good grace is another step smile

They are not as good at hiding their reactions as an adult. If I was on my laptop and you asked me to go and post a letter for you, I wouldn't necessarily be skipping out the door with glee, but as an adult I can hide my annoyance and do it with seemingly good humour!

Newyearchanger Fri 21-Feb-14 12:52:19

As you grow up, it's quite annoying to be told what to do on a daily basis so maybe realistic expectations about minimum standards of help etc should be set.
I hate being told what to do... Being asked for a reason or favour is different, if explained why I will try to help.
Most teenagers I know are the same.

chicaguapa Fri 21-Feb-14 13:03:52

I also recommend Divas and Doorslammers. It's made a big difference to how I get on with DD(12).

(disclaimer: haven't RTFT)

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 13:20:16

Tough shit if the kids don't like being told what to do. They do pretty much fuck all to help so yes, they do need telling when something needs doing as they rarely volunteer to help. If your daughter marries my son you would be pretty pissed off if he was incapable or unwilling to pull his weight around the house. It might be my job to be at home but it isn't my job to do everything that needs doing.

Boys just been fighting so I sent them upstairs for a bit to their rooms where they are now trying to play together hmm

LastingLight Fri 21-Feb-14 17:16:10

Toffee it sounds as if you are in a better place than when you started this thread. I so agree with you about being firm, fair and confident. Sometimes you have to fake it, but it does work.

I wish my dd would pull faces instead of muttering to herself just loudly enough so that you can hear about how unfair her life is. I know I should ignore that but she goes on and on until I just explode. sad

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 17:34:53

I am the same. It is hard to keep your temper some times.

ATM DS1 is winding up DS2 who is meant to be eating his tea. DS1 has finished his so has gone to do some tidying up. I doubt much will be done. I ignored the winding up.

For me, when the kids have been PITN for so long it takes less time for me to get to shouty mode. I just feel so rubbish that this half term hasn't been great but then we had 3 not bad days and 2 rubbish ones.

Can't wait for DH to get home.

Have really missed DD as haven't seen her since yesterday afternoon and won't see her until tomorrow afternoon but it has been easier with just two sad.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Fri 21-Feb-14 17:42:34

I am counting to about 5 in my head as it was starting to go a bit wrong with the boys but I pulled it back a bit. DS2 is on the step now and DH is bringing home lemonade and milk bottle sweets for me.

Newyearchanger Fri 21-Feb-14 22:06:46

Sorry, not suggesting they don't need to help but being firm fair and confident sounds about right.

NoraRobertsismyguiltypleasure Fri 21-Feb-14 22:14:19

Can I suggest the book 'how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk'?
It has really good ideas about how to stop shouting and repeating yourself, and why punishment isn't always the right consequence.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 14:15:52

I have the book and have tried to read it so many times but I just can't get it. I find it really hard to read and not at all realistic. Is it written by Americans as I find it not realistic to English life or phrases? Maybe it is just me confused.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 14:20:45

Which book, the how to talk or sibling without rivalry?

I found both incredibly easy to read, understood, grasp the concept and it helped me change my parenting...

You need to read the "how to talk" one first IMHO.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 18:49:45

How to talk

I know what it is saying to do, I just don't like how it is written.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 18:58:07

So have you tried what is says, even though you don't like how it is written?

It's certainly not an overnight process to change tack completely on how you parent. Interestingly they've written one for teens - I wonder if it may be helpful for dealing with your eldest?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 20:51:58

I found it hard to retain all the info tbh. I find it really hard to be consistent and trust that what I have said or done is right when the kids are arguing with me. I then doubt myself as to whether I have been fair.

I have the Toddler Taming teenager book but haven't looked at that for ages.

I just feel like I am so stressed, unhappy, lacking in patience and angry all the time. I would not like me if I wasn't me. We were at PIL today and all I did was tell the kids off and upset my DD. She is horrible to DS2 but even so I should have been able to keep my temper. I just can't ignore what I should.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 20:55:59

Hmm, I wonder if you would benefit from some therapy for you. It just seems as though perhaps there is something else going in the background/subconscious that is making it so difficult for you - something is making you doubt yourself etc.?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 21:16:48

I have tried counselling with 5 different people. One was a man I only saw once as he gave me the creeps. The other four just weren't equipped to help me. I am in a place I am not happy and I just can't see a way out. I feel I need to retreat into myself really and just not have an interaction with anyone.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 21:20:05

sad were any of these people psycotherapists or were they all just counsellors - I have found them very different? I personally wouldn't bother seeing anyone not a fully qualified and experienced psycotherapist and again you do need to click with them.

A wise friend told me to ring around a few and chat to them about the problem and what you needed to get out of it to see if you felt they were someone you could work with.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 21:23:27

One was a counsellor, one was a psychotherapist I think but the others I am not sure about. I have remembered another lady I saw made me tell her stuff I wasn't happy about telling - saying she couldn't help me if I didn't tell her - but it wasn't relevant to why I needed help and she never said a word about it and I refused to see her again. Cost a bomb as well.

I just really don't like who I am at the moment and just wish my life away.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 21:31:28

Are you on anti-depressants at all?

Do you get to spend any time doing anything you enjoy/believe you are good at? Do you get to spend any time with people that make you feel good about yourself?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 21:38:26

I have been off ADs for about 18 months and have only really been feeling shit about myself for a short while. I was in hospital twice recently with what turned out to be stress and on diazepam for a week, finishing yesterday.

My whole life is kids and housework. I would say I love to bake but then that is for the kids and the only thing I really do for me is read in the car for 30 minutes a day while I wait for the kids to come out of school. And come on here, too much probably.

I have one friend I see occasionally and she is nice but I don't feel good about myself when with her confused.

I need a good slap really as I am annoying myself. I made my dd cry today and my excuse is I had had enough of her being mean to her brother. I hadn't seen her for 2 days, had really missed her, had sent her to PIL so she could have a break from her brothers and then she was mean every time she spoke to them.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 21:44:09

Are you on your own - no spouse/partner?

I have really really struggled with myself for decades so I do understand/empathise with where you are.

I would suggest back to the GP and back on the ADs. Once they get you in a better place you need some professional help. I would be insisting on a referral to psychiatrist for a full assessment of what treatment they think will help you.

You are spending your life not doing anything that makes you feel good about yourself - that certainly isn't helping.

Are your older dc now at an age when your own childhood was or became difficult? I am very aware of how totally lacking in emotional and social skills in how to "be" with my dc the ages they are now. Pre-schoolers and early years were fine as they are far more straightforward. As they get older I find it all very confusing, difficult, overwhelming and difficult.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 21:52:42

I have a husband who I love very much and I sometimes feel he doesn't understand what goes on in my head, which of course he can't. His life is a complete contrast to mine.

My whole childhood was difficult. I am too nervous to post what it was like here but I will admit to resenting my children at times for not realising how lucky they are. I know that is so unfair and I check myself if I find myself thinking or saying it.

I love them so much my heart swells but it isn't enough is it?

I am sorry you have had hard times, RM, and I hope my posting hasn't upset or annoyed you.

My kids are normal. I wasn't. I find that hard.

ommmward Sat 22-Feb-14 21:53:04

Can you think about the long game? Once your son is 18 he will be leaving home, probably, and living as an independent adult. What sort of control will you have over him then?

I'd be thinking about what the best route is from here, with sulks and privileges and loss of privileges and you wanting him to behave in certain parentally-imposed ways, to there, when he is living independently and either comes to visit sometimes or doesn't really.

Trying to be top-down authoritarian is just going to end up with none of you liking each other very much. And what's the bloody point of that?

<disclaimer: I was brought up very woolly liberal, and have the same attitude with my own children>

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 21:59:06

I was asking about your husband because I think you need to have a discussion with him about just how hard you are finding things at the moment.

What can be changed in your life to make you feel better about being you?

I think the hardest thing about therapy is facing your demons and how much it absolutely bloody hurts, the anger and rage you feel when you get in touch with how it makes you feel - both then when it happened and now as an adult because deep inside it is so raw.

Perhaps therapy didn't help before because you weren't ready to go though it?

Is there a possibility that in you aspiring to give your dc the "perfect" childhood you are doing different things to your parents that aren't in their best interests. I don't mean neglectful or abusive but perhaps doing too much for them, or living your life through them?

I don't know you so these are just possibilities. I hope I don't come across as judgemental I don't mean to be. My issue is that I become emotionally detached from others in order to cope and it isn't healthy for me nor my dc.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 22:00:26

I think you have got me all wrong, ommmward.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sat 22-Feb-14 22:06:08

I think he has probably had enough of me bring like this, RM.

I woke this morning and cried about something unrelated and it upset me so much as I can't change it or talk about it with anyone.

I am just fed up with my life, with me and with being so bloody scared of life all the time.

I would happily hide away for ever. As I have no friends, neither do my kids. No one to invite round and it is all so shit at times. I have totally failed the kids and should never have had them. I was never going to be up to it.

DH has gone to bed so best go too.

Thanks, RM. I really appreciate your input tonight.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 22:11:23

Toffee I identify with everything in your last post. Please seek professional help just because things are very bad now doesn't mean they can't change.

It will mean feeling the fear and doing it anyway.

Hugs x

Badvoc Sat 22-Feb-14 22:36:26

I'm so sorry you feel like this and that your dh is a twat is not more supportive.
I have found this half term really rough too - lots of reasons, not many of which I had control over.
Your ds is at that awful age IMHO...I bet even he doesn't know why he is so vile tbh. At this age their brains are basically exploding, hormones all over the place and bodies changing.
It's not an excuse for his behaviour, but it's a reason and has nothing to do with you or what you do/don't do.
A day out won't help him but it might help you.
I think you should take your dh up on his comment - he would love to be at home with them? Ok. Book yourself into a premier inn or something for the weekend (or even better long weekend) and let him get on with it.
Oh, and I swear on front of my kids. I don't do it on purpose but - occasionally - the odd expletive pops out smile

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 22:55:12

I actually found life better when I returned to work, dh reduced his hours to do the school runs. I also have left it to him to do the meal planning, shopping and cooking (do help out occasionally) I have even let him loose on the washing.

I'm good at my job and get to achieve something, I don't always enjoy having to put up with my colleagues though!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 05:31:55

I am starting to believe my kids are normal, which is great, as then it isn't me completely fucking up, but how do I learn to not let things get to me so much to the point that I am shouting and swearing?

I am up now as I can't sleep, or breathe properly, due to anxiety and I just feel like crying. I am dreading the day ahead. Dreading the kids going back to school (DS2 having problems) and I am starting volunteering at school this week and what if I am crap?

No way is DH a twat. He has supported me through some incredibly difficult things but I think having had a wife who has had diagnosed depression since 2001 and has difficulties on and off for all that time he is at a loss as to what to do.

I talked to him a bit how I felt last night but he didn't say anything. I don't think he knows what to say. I said I needed a break and I know I could go out today and leave them all to it but I think I am a control freak as I like to do the dinner (food issues) and there just always seems so much to do to get the kids ready to go back to school. We are a bit broke atm with DH's new job but I have birthday money I could spend. Just feel teary as we probably need that for kids stuff. I was even fed up yesterday food shopping when DH was putting little bits in he fancied and I didn't put anything but a caramac bar in. I am not martyring myself there, I just know I haven't much money to last me the month, DD has a physio appointment to pay for and o might have to fork out £100 since DS1 has lost another games kit. Bill was £115 and I hadn't meal planned. DS1 moaned when he had jacket potatoes and fish twice in one week ffs. Well this week it will definitely be potatoes twice! I am on the same money I have been on for years and we all know food prices have gone up so the huge variety they have been enjoying will have to be cut down to cheaper things like the jacket spuds and more rice.

I had planned to stay in bed as long as I could today but waking up for the loo then anxiety setting in as put paid to that.

DD was so upset with me last night she didn't even come and say good night and have a cuddle. Didn't realise until after 10 when I went to bed sad. I know I hurt her arm when I picked her up (I had forgotten how sensitive she is) and she cried and said she hated the boys sad.

LastingLight Sun 23-Feb-14 06:37:27

Toffee I don't know if you want to hear this, but I only stopped overreacting, screaming and hating myself for it once my psychiatrist found the right combination of meds for me. Therapy also helped. Please get help for yourself, this is not going to go away by itself.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 06:49:22

I have asked for help previously and got no where. I just don't know what to do next. When I tell them what has gone on in my life I can see they don't know what to say. If I say I do X because of Y they say I am annoying them - their job to analyse. I am sat here knackered, wanting to get out of the house but of course nowhere to go as it is Sunday and nothing is open and just hating that my kids say I am a good mum when I know I am not. Tablets haven't helped, they just make me feel like I am in a fog, give me nightmares and I put stones on. I feel beyond help as I have tried for so long and I just want to slap myself for being so pathetic.

I want to shower, dress and go out but no chance of that without waking someone up.

Zara8 Sun 23-Feb-14 06:59:33

OP thanks

You need to keep asking for help until you get the therapist/combination of meds that help you. Change GP, ask for a new referral?

Your current situation is unsustainable, but it's not irreversible.

And I say that as someone who was once in your children's shoes. You cannot look after your children if you don't look after yourself. Just because you didn't find a good therapist before - is that a reason not to try? Same goes for your previous medication.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 07:04:21

I have lost any hope of ever feeling normal and just long for the days when my children don't need me so I can't fuck up any more.

I can hear them waking and I am scared of what the day will bring.

I feel I don't know how to be a mum and may obsession with feeding them and cooking all the time is all I know how to show I love them as I know I wasn't loved by my carers and wasn't fed properly.

I feel I need to fake it to make it but I am so exhausted with everything I just can't.

I see no way out really.

I hate all this self pity crap. It isn't who I am. I used to be so strong, funny, had friends. Now I am pathetic, boring, moany, angry, friendless and lonely.

I am going for a shower and then out. Thanks all. So appreciated.

Zara8 Sun 23-Feb-14 07:06:52

Toffee please see your GP ASAP. Print out this thread and show him/her if it is easier than saying the issues out loud.

It is not all lost. Things can be better if you take steps to seriously help yourself.

Good luck today x

ivykaty44 Sun 23-Feb-14 07:19:58

Have you ever thought about having a camera ready to snap his face when you ask him to do something? And then actually making it all a bit of gentle fun with some teasing about how funny his face is?

It may lighten the mood for you and hopefully he will also possibly see the funny side.

Then each time you ask him to do something say have funny will the face be today!

Paintyfingers Sun 23-Feb-14 07:41:17

Dearest toffee, I read this thread and I see a very loving mother having a tough time. I know you may not believe this all the time, but your dc are so lucky. They have a mother who is always there with them, cares about them, hugs them, makes plans for special days out and makes lovely food for them. They also have a great caring dad at home.

Your ds1 sounds lovely helping out with the mice and complementing your hair and your dd sounds very cuddly smile I'm sure ds2 is lovely as well - going great guns with he swimming by the sound of it.

My mother had Pnd and when I look back at photos from when I am small she sometimes looks very down. We have a great relationship now and she was a lovely mum.

I think you should go back to the GP and press for referral to get the right meds and some talking therapy - my own dm had a difficult time growing up and she said lots of this only resurfaced when she had her own dc, which brought everything back.

When you write household rules don't be embarrassed - I went for a play date recently to a house that had them and I was v impressed smile maybe you could write just one or two for you too, so the children see there are things you will be trying to do better too? And maybe for DH as well?

RandomMess Sun 23-Feb-14 07:49:06

Toffee I really have been where you are and I know just how beyond awful it is and how much you despise yourself.

I tried so many different drugs until something helped -I think it was actually the last ones the GP could try as we'd been through everything else. Yes the fog can take a while to get through so you get the benefits without the side affects.

Of course your dh doesn't know what to say, tell him what you want when you tell him how you feel is a proper cuddle/snuggle and to know that he still loves you regardless. Somehow it helps just telling someone else about your inner turmoil IMHO.

Lastly go to GP, tell him how you wish you didn't exist anymore, tell him your dc are missing out on decent parenting and you can see what an impact this is having on them. You need a referral.

With regards to the food thing perhaps you could decide to fully reliquish control to your dh. Make a conscious decision that for a forthnight he plans all the meals etc. and cooks them where possible so you can at some level accept that it doesn't need to be you controlling them.

My heart really goes out to you. I don't think my depression will ever go away fully but I'm currently at the point where the good days versus the bad days are at least equal. I hate being on ADs and I hope to reduce the dosage in 6 months time but for now I need their help whilst I make other changes in my life and am currently in therapy (AGAIN).

flowers

Finickynotfussy Sun 23-Feb-14 08:09:46

You sound really down - I'm sorry. I haven't been in your exact situation but I did have years of feeling terrible when I was experiencing infertility. DH had no idea what to do/say. When I finally found a counsellor I clicked with, it really helped - but I saw some less than effective/useless ones along the way. I also feel much better when I work. I hope the volunteering will help you (it's good to feel useful) but you need to get rid of the script you have in your head about being useless etc - as you're clearly not.

Just the living out in the middle of nowhere won't be helping with the friends situation (or counselling or hobbies) - could you make a long term plan to move back to a town?

I think you said the money issues were because you've had to send DS1 private? Maybe your DH should have a man to man talk with DS1 about how his education is v. important, but breaking down what £30k or so a year actually means in terms of what there is to spend on days out etc. But only if he can do it sensitively so DS1 don't end up feeling guilty. But it is a lot of money and he may not appreciate that.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 08:10:26

I'm sat in a car park thinking ds2 is probably wondering why I've gone out and DH will ring me once he realises I'm not home

I'm scared to go back on pills as I have bad reactions and how will they fix my issues

I just want some peace

I think it's a good idea to print the thread but then the GP will see your personal stuff

Paintyfingers Sun 23-Feb-14 08:18:14

Toffee, why not call DH so he doesn't worry and tell him you need to come home and have a duvet day. Or is there something you would really like to do by yourself eg go swimming/go for lunch.

I understand meds aren't an easy answer, but the right combination for you won't cause a reaction and will give you the the chance to tackle things more long term via proper talking therapy. I think you have to tell gp where you are at to get the help you need.

Sending you some un mn hugs and thanks

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 08:25:07

I'm so cold in the car. Raining and windy. I doubt DH hack noticed I'm gone. Probably asleep. I feel like a toddler having an attention seeking tantrum but I just wanted some space.

RandomMess Sun 23-Feb-14 08:30:27

Can you think of a drive through McDonalds or similar as they open early and some hot food/drink will help.

RandomMess Sun 23-Feb-14 08:32:30

You can print out this thread, we are all anonymous on here really.

I did once write to my GP about how I was feeling and left it at the surgery. It did make it much easier to then talk to her and get proper help. I'd forgotten about that!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 08:41:28

I want to go home but I bet it is quiet and peaceful without me.

Badvoc Sun 23-Feb-14 08:52:07

Do print out this thread and show it to someone.
You are ill, and need help.
Wrt your Dh...in sickness and on health, remember? My Dha had I have been through some really rough times but he would never say "leave then" to me.
Depression is such an insidious illness.
Please get some help.
What about going home, having a hot bath, staying in bed and reading and letting your Dh get in with it today...including cooking?
Can you do that?

Paintyfingers Sun 23-Feb-14 08:57:22

You need to tell DH how down you are and tell him where you are. Some food and time relaxing are the answer. You are ill and need to take time out.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 09:02:13

Just texted DH. He's texting back.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 09:05:17

I'd love a day in bed reading but I'd feel I was isolating myself and making things worse

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 09:08:44

I've said I needed space as bringing everyone down. I'll stay away so he can have a better day and said I loved them all

longtallsally2 Sun 23-Feb-14 10:48:33

Toffee, just wanted to say that I understand completely how you feel.

You have done so well this week and really turned the holiday around, and you have done what you needed today to get yourself some space, and a breather from disciplining the children, and to give them a day with their dad too.

Do you do anything as a couple with your dh? I sense that he is good at stepping in when you can't cope, but it does rather sounds as if you feel isolated and on your own otherwise. When you talk to him tonight, it might be helpful to establish what he thinks about the kids behaviour too. Then in future, it should not all be on your shoulders - "I don't like this, I don't want you to do that" You should be able to say to the kids that "We don't do that here. Your dad and I do not allow you to do X" It should be about being together in this, shouldn't it?

I don't say this because I have it all sorted, but because when I feel exactly as you do, as if I have the world on my shoulders at home, then this is something that has helped me.

Hang on in there, and look after yourself. You can only give out as much as you have got to give, so do what you need to, to look after you. (And when you get to school this week, you will be brilliant helping out, and you will find that it gives you a big boost, to do something where you can help people and they are grateful, rather than moaning at you!)

Thinking of you

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 11:05:49

I have come home. All the kids are playing on their lap tops/computer, DH is gardening and I am cooking roast pork.

When I came in DS2 shouted "MUMMY!!!!!!!" and came running for a cuddle. So, so lovely as that rarely happens as I am always with them and when they come out of school he is more often than not sad so I don't get a big hello.

DH and I get very little time alone. We had a few hours a couple of weeks ago while the kids were at school and it was lovely. Out for breakfast, bit of shopping, picked up lunch and dinner from M&S and just being together. The kids go to sleep so late now it feels like we don't get an evening. I remember the days of kids in bed at 7pm, sex at 8 (not every night of course) then an evening to watch something on the telly!

PIL offer to have the children but three together are hard work and they are also pretty busy so it doesn't happen often.

DH feels l need to do something for me and not just kids and housework which is what my life is. Mostly I don't mind but every now and then I just get fed up with it, especially if the kids have been fighting and not doing as they are asked so making more work for me.

I would say that DH thinks I jump in too quick to tell the kids off, what they do is normal, and I need to ignore it. He finds it easier to do than me.

DD was not happy with me last night but just came to ask for homework help so I was relieved we are friends again.

What gets to me is having no one. My parents and uncle are alive but they aren't in my life as they gave me away and were beyond awful. Letting them back in is not an option at all and never will be, so I feel on my own. Even my children have a bigger family than me with their grandparents, uncles, second cousins. I am envious of my own children and that is awful. Happy for them though.

Stockhausen Sun 23-Feb-14 11:06:02

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this, everything is so much harder when depression is a factor too.

I agree with starting fresh, drawing up a Rota & thinking of things to do together... off the top of my head, movie night, board game night & maybe let them make dinner one night a week?

Swearing at them isn't ideal, but you're at breaking point thanks

You say you live brutally & have a field to run in... would a dog be an option? Chuck them out with a ball & see who tires out first! Plus, getting YOU out walking would clear your head.

I'd also consider speaking to your GP again, not so you are 'drugged to the eyeballs' but a change of dosage or even a different medication might be helpful.

Keep going toffee, I know you feel rubbish, but things can hopefully only get better from here brew cake

Stockhausen Sun 23-Feb-14 11:09:46

Insist they go to bed at x o'clock. Switch the router off or unplug the tech in their rooms. Their lack of sleep may well be impacting their behaviour.

My brother & I were sent through to our rooms at a certain time, so my parents could have 'adult time' I.e. a conversation after working all day!

YOU are in charge, not the other way round - reclaim your evenings! At least a couple of nights a week.

LurkingCinners Sun 23-Feb-14 11:10:42

Toffee, if you feel like a day in bed reading then do it.
I think part of your whole situation is an inability to find out what you want.

You do sound depressed. I know how it can influence the whole family and because you are not "balanced" you cannot deal with crappy behaviour from the dc. Because only a person firmly rooted can let it all wash over her.
The dc need you as a strong person showing them the way. You feel weak and helpless so they rebel. Because they are confused and maybe scared.

I have felt like you in the past, and I think you haven't even scratched on the surface of a lot of stuff that is trying to get out and be dealt with.

It doesn't sound as if you ever had proper therapy. it makes all the difference.
You wrote upthread that you used to have a great relationship with ds1. So you know how to. Don't let stupid depression ruin your life.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 11:23:31

I would like to do a rota but wonder when they would get time to do the jobs? We don't get home from school until 4.30. Then I do tea which is over by about half five, while it is cooking I check homework and supervise any redoing/help. DH home 6-6.30 and listens to DS2 read then he is in bed at 7 for reading and the older ones have to be quiet in their rooms so DS2 can sleep.

I have been asking them to do more this half term though and to be fair mostly they just did it with the odd moan. I think I have found it hard to ask the kids to do house work type things as I see that as my job and when I was 9 I was keeping house in a damn mansion (foster carers) which is wrong.

They put their clothes away, sweep the kitchen, empty the dishwasher and hoover sometimes.

I would love a dog but DD now keen and we can't afford it atm, plus we got 2 rescue cats last year and it might not be fair on them. One day though I would love it as I am certain it would be good for me. I couldn't hide at home every day then save for doing the school runs.

DD has struggled with getting off to sleep for about 5 years now and insists the laptop is not making a difference. When I remember at weekends they aren't meant to be on computers after 3pm but on week days they need them for homework.

I am sure if I had confidence in myself and didn't worry about what the kids' would say about their childhood when adults, I would do a lot better. I nannied instinctively. Shame I can't mother in the same way confused.

I know I am posting too much but it is really helping having you all to talk too and I really appreciate it, thank you brewcake.

LastingLight Sun 23-Feb-14 11:35:14

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with medication, I can relate. It's worth persevering though and insisting on a referral to a psychiatrist to explore other options. I've been on many different meds. Some had terrible side effects, others simply didn't work and some worked for a while and then stopped working. My doc kept coming up with new combinations we could try until eventually we hit the magic combo.

So how do the meds help? Well firstly the darkness in your head lifts. It becomes easier to see the positive side of things and you no longer feels utterly useless. You have more energy, everything isn't such a mission any more. You become less reactive, so it's easier to deal with dc's without exploding. You feel that you can relate to other people again. Some of this is enhanced a lot by having appropriate therapy.

I want to echo the poster who asked if you could move into town. It's vitally important for you and the dc's to develop a bit of a social life so that you're not living in each other's pockets all the time.

It's easy to sit on the internet giving advice, I know. It's difficult to get yourself moving to do something that will improve the situation, when you're feeling the way you do. I think you need to get your DH to read this thread. Then ask him for specific help, e.g. make the doctor's appointment for you if that is something you struggle with, cook a meal with the dc's while you relax with a book, take them out for a walk, rub your back... whatever will help a bit.

(((HUGS)))

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 11:57:07

Moving isn't an option until DS2 finishes school and I have accepted that. I only want to move once more and I don't want to stay in this area so I am happy to compromise. I have moved a lot in my life and still don't feel at home so I want to be sure next time is right.

Hopefully my volunteering will help a lot.

DH always does the kids teas at the weekend and is great in so many ways. He just can't be here as much as I need.

He has said he will probably have to look for another job but if I could find work to pay £500 a month we would be okay. Not going to happen when I haven't worked since 2000!

LastingLight Sun 23-Feb-14 11:59:50

Volunteering will definitely help. I started volunteering at a children's home once the depression fog lifted a bit and it did wonders for my self esteem.

longtallsally2 Sun 23-Feb-14 12:25:12

Yy ditto with the volunteering - I have always used volunteering or working to help lift the fog.

Toffee, Stockhousen's rota wasn't for jobs, it was a rota for having fun: board game night, movie night, kids-cook-tonight night . . . it's a good way of taking some of the pressure off you as you plan something that you are all going to do together - (great idea: we used to do that too! Must resurrect the rota!)

Enjoy your pork. Glad that you have made it back and that ds2 was so pleased to see you.

Stockhausen Sun 23-Feb-14 12:29:09

Good luck with the volunteering! I started volunteering last year & they gave me a reference that meant I got a Part time paid job! Its a great way to fill cv gaps & gain confidence.

nobeer Sun 23-Feb-14 12:30:56

Toffee I just wanted to comment because I've seen you post on MN before and you've always struck me as a lovely person.

I'm not a mum yet, but I'm the only girl with 3 DBs. I regularly used to complain and say I hated them, but we get on brilliantly now! I think it's quite normal to have a bit of sibling discord, but I do remember my DF getting really upset when we used to fight as he was an only child and would have loved siblings. I've also had depression, and know that some anti ds don't suit me, so maybe ask for a change in meds?

Good luck with the volunteering, I think that will definitely help your CV, self esteem, and widen your social circle. thanks

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 12:44:51

Had lunch. Was nice. I am shattered now. Kids asked to clear up, all have gone and DH has called them back as still some mess. DD said "I am not lazy at all so I will do it." She often makes comments like that, and while she does do a bit more than the boys, I don't like them. Another case of ignore?

Our older two like hiding away in their rooms but I will think of things to get them out of there. Right now though, I am tired and having a sit down while I watch The Voice. I recorded it as DS2 wanted to watch Ant and Dec.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 12:47:12

Yes, nobeer, that is what upsets me. We had three children as we have half a family with me having none and then smaller still as BIL not having kids so we thought we have loads then their kids will have a decent sized family confused.

thinking101 Sun 23-Feb-14 12:50:24

For you Toffee thanks

From what I've read your DC's sound normal, little buggers out for what they can get away wth! grin with all the words to match eh?

I am a shouty mum and sometimes swear. I find my DS(8) incredibly annoying, hard to be around. I've moaned about him on here recently. We've just been on holiday and he spoilt the start to the day, he goes off plays and I'm left sitting there festering in resentment.

I agree with others about getting DH on board.

You need to reset yourself....I think I do too. I think the cumulative affects of kids means we can easily respond to a situation 0-60 whereas as if it wasnt so often (or you've had a break) you would do so differently. Its like the kids get overdrawn in the patience bank and there is no let up to get it back in credit, if that maks sense.

The thing that stands out is the - not getting out as much/things to do. This would release a bit of pressure - It does seem this is more difficult for you to do and something that needs to be planned more in advance.

I thk you need to do something - anything for yourself, even if it every Sat for eg you go to nearest coffee shop for a mooch and DH cooks a meal. Or could it be that older DC's do a cold tea of sandwiches and nibbles. To give you a break from cooking. Also could you batch cook - double up on family staples such as spag bol, then that gives you one meal off the following week.

Mostly go back to the GP's I have wondered whether my depression has crept back up on me...especially as I am no better off for having been away and DH was there to help.

I feel really humble for moaning about struggling when I onlyhave the two and people like you have three or more. Plus I have a comfortable life I dont have any stess olny the stress of struggling to parent DS.

I hope there is some help in there for you somewhere. At least it is spring soon, this always helps re getting out and about.

nobeer Sun 23-Feb-14 13:04:44

Sorry, but I did giggle at your DD's comment. That is exactly the kind of smug thing I would have said!

It sounds like you had a really really tough childhood. Do you think you've romanticised how family life should be and perhaps the everyday grind isn't comparing to what you'd hoped it would be?

Growing up in a large family, there was lots of bickering, mum shouting, mum being frazzled (she was a SAHM too) so maybe some of what's going on in your home is normal and you need to give yourself a break and be kinder to yourself.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 13:08:07

thinking101 - everything you have said is spot on. When you have had years of certain behaviour it takes a lot less time to react.

I know it is me that has to change as the kids are normal!

I wish DD (10) would stop being so mean to DS (8).

I wish DS(8) would do as he is told more and learn to accept that DS(12) doesn't always want to play and not be upset when DD is mean.

DD and DS2 have physical problems and their treatment is costing loads atm. DS2 also might need help at school and I am scared tbh about what that might mean.

I wish the kids would get on better, stop bickering, and accept I love them all the same and it upsets us when they fight.

I am cutting myself some slack over the cooking. Today they had left over cake for pudding. Normally it would stress me if I wasn't able to cook/bake but I am thinking from a £ point of view now and have told DD and DS2 they are having left over roast pork in their lunches boxes tomorrow as otherwise it is like throwing money in the bin. The rest of the week they will get what they want (DD - roast chicken and ketchup) and DS2 (gammon.)

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 13:12:37

I used to get a few hours off on a Saturday to wander around the shops and DH had the kids. I am not sure why it stopped though sometimes the effort of going out isn't worth the end result. Lack of energy has been a shock now they are all sleeping through. When they were small we would stay in all day sometimes and it was fine. Now I have to go out at least twice a day and it wears me down.

I have definitely romanticised what family life should be. I imagine everyone to be playing monopoly now or out walking whereas here DS1 and 2 are playing on the computer, DD is doing her homework, DH is on his lap top and I am on here and watching tv. We had started going for walks on a Sunday but missed a few weeks as the weather has been so bad and I wasn't up to it last week.

Paintyfingers Sun 23-Feb-14 13:29:32

Toffee, that all sounds v normal. In my family the siblings used to argue all the time and sometimes my dm was at the end of her tether blush but we all love each other like mad, my dm and DF cared and there was food on the table and clean clothes. Above and beyond that honestly anything is a pure bonus.

thinking101 Sun 23-Feb-14 13:37:53

<shrill laugh> Oh..I promised DS to play monopoly yesterday....it ended in disaster. You and I are not he only ones counting down to 9am tomorrow, believe me.

I'll be back later this PM as Ive started housework today which I normally tomorrow so I can have some peace tomorrow when they are back at work and school. DD(2) is fine, at least I know she will sleep at some point wink

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 14:25:37

How do your children get on together? DS1 and DD started getting on better once they were at different schools. DD isn't very nice to DS2 at all and he just wants her to like him sad. They are at the same school until July.....

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 14:27:13

PaintyFingers - how did you mum show she was at the end of her tether and were you okay with it? Ds1 complains I shout and when I apologised for swearing he said he was used to it sad. Made me sad as it happens very rarely.

thinking101 Sun 23-Feb-14 14:48:46

Toffee DS will play with DD for a little while and even play in his bedroom but I still have to listen out as she is only 2, I cant go off into kitchen and do stuff. But then DS get annoyed when she touches things and sends her back.

But this is a 6 year gap after all. I spend a lot of time reminding DS that DD has the rules he used to have and that she will not understand xyz for a while.

I feel terrible that when I do shout at him, he sometimes doesnt bat an eyelid as he so used to mad mummy rants. DD doestn know any different sad

I have tried the I walk away and count and breath - this take a huge conscious effort. I also try to ask myself if this is a worth pulling him up for?

I jump onthe change to praise him. I do the same as you and apologise for shouting and any bad words.

Try standing back from your kids, are the clean and well fed? Are they poite and cooperative when out and about, say with other adults on bus/in coffee shop. Do people tell you your kids are lovely? Sometimes we can't see the wider picture when bogged down with the grind. Im really trying to pull myself up.

I have learned a lot from MN lately. SAHM's have shitty days it's really not all it is cracked up to be for everyone. But overall this is best for my family and I take my pleasures where I can when they not here making demands grin

I'm trying to get into good routines for homework, reading, swimming day etc. So January I've sorted out budget, I'm cooking from scratcha and I've went back to fly thread. This all just gives me a structures. Im working on the routine more to include things for myself. I figure that if I'm better on top of things then I can focus on them when needed and Im not worrying about cooking or uniforms.

Ive goto confess I've lowered my housekeeping standards somewhat, like I let them make a mess with paints and play do if it gives me half hour on MN o to watch an episode of something.

Whats the thing with the school, and needed help, this is only a good thing? Are you worried about his education longer term? Just remember, clean and fed, good manners and we half way there...wink smile

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 15:07:40

The kids behave for everyone except dh and I. They will try it on with PIL but MIL is much better with them so it never goes very far. They really are lovely kids who just push it too much. A teacher was most upset when DD was off sick as she loves having her in her class and Ds2's teacher laughed when I asked her if she liked him and said of course. His TA thought he was great but she has left now sad.

They are definitely well fed, clean, with clothes and shoes that fit and tonnes of books and things to do.

Every time I go in my bathroom I feel happy as I gave it a clean and tidy the other day and it looks so much better. My head is always a mess when the house is and it doesn't help.

DS had problems when I was pregnant and in labour and we think there are different issues that have been missed and it scares me. Someone who spent a short time with him criticised him completely and said he might be on the AS "tippy toes" and was just horrible about him. He is struggling a bit to settle in school (new one) and gets himself into trouble saying he has done things he hasn't. DH and I think there might be something not quite right but no idea what and I think he is in quite a unique situation. No doubt we will get through it and help him but it is scary. School are on the ball though and want to help him.

LastingLight Sun 23-Feb-14 16:16:06

My dd also (generally) behaves for other people so I think that means we are doing something right!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 16:20:10

Still me that needs to change then smile.

Never been able to block out kids arguing, tantrumming, etc like DH can.

LastingLight Sun 23-Feb-14 16:47:30

Honestly, sometimes I get complimented on her behaviour and I think "What? Are you talking about my child?"

This is usually swiftly balanced out by a complaint from the school about books and letters lost, homework not written down, messy work...

At least with more than one dc they can sometimes play/argue with each other... mine always wants to play or argue with me or DH! wink I I admire people who can feed and clothe 3 kids in the mornings and get them out of the house on time. Don't think we could pull that off.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 16:52:38

We certainly didn't register we were going to be outnumbered when we tried for baby number 3 wish so much baby 4 had made it too as baby 3 would be better with his sibling even though we would have been even more outnumbered!

thinking101 Sun 23-Feb-14 20:16:15

So toffee if thats what people say about your kids then you are mostly defnately a great mum. Kids try it on and push us when at home as they feel secure in their boundaries of the family home/unit.

So stop being so hard on yourself that you must be doing something wrong. Though they certainly know how to put us through our paces. You dont need to change who you are (but, as with me maybe lost a little bit of you along hte way) but like me we need to change how we respond. I think if I could stop doing the shouting and 'passionate' telling off I would feel less of a cow and have way less guilt.

- The mess thing, this stresses me, as I look arounf and it looks like I can't even keep a small house straight as a SAHM hmm. So I totally get that. The fly thread helps me and you can see what others do/dont do and you feel less, well stressed.

Since last post I have booked DS into some activities and sorted out a play date. So it will be home, fed and changed and to whatever, every night this week. I will have to entertain DD whilst he is in these things but at least he is doing something healthy and will come back to me having run off all his silliness <hopeful praying face>. I have also tidies kitchen dinner so feel organised for the week.

Im going to the fly thread to write my list and work on meal plan. Im goinf to try and do one nice thing every day for myself. So tomorrow it will just be to blow dry hair and stick some make-up on as Ive sat around like a pile of raggy mamas all weekend grin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 20:58:21

I love the fact my kids feel secure. That is something I never had. But that makes me feel even more of a cow for being horrible to them by shouting at them.

Tomorrow is my first volunteering stint. eek. Bit nervous in case I get it all wrong and are rubbish but a little bit excited that it might be good and I might be good. I had a cunning plan but I think that failed when I told the lady at school what it wasgrin.

Paintyfingers Sun 23-Feb-14 21:22:26

Good luck for the volunteering smile

All will be ok, toffee. They sound like great dc!!

Please still pop to the GP and talk all this through though

thanks and some un mn hugs

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 21:50:14

I'm planning on keeping a record of my strops as I think it could've hormonal as well as emotional and clinical.

thinking101 Sun 23-Feb-14 21:53:38

thats a very healthy thing to do.

I feel funny about writinf things down, yet Im happy to come oone here and rant grin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 21:58:34

Writing's my thing

LastingLight Mon 24-Feb-14 09:27:05

Let us know how the volunteering went!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 11:04:22

3/3 out of my children have been pests this morning. DS1 was rude and refused to empty the dishwasher. I have left it for him and he will do it when I get in from picking up DC2 and 3. If he refuses I have decided I will park myself on the sofa and watch Deal or no deal grin. Hunger might get his backside in gear.

DD was mean to DS2 and rude to me multiple times in the car.

DS2 said he had cleaned his teeth and in the playground I discovered he hadn't. I have thrown out his Moshi monster brush and paste (I told him I would if he lied again about cleaning his teeth) and have made up a brush and paste to keep in the car for when it happens again.

Does all that sound reasonable?

In other news I have a very clean kitchen floor, have moved the table so the room looks bigger and later I will clear the counter tops. I have got most of the washing done, have cleaned the patio doors and kitchen windows and hoovered the hall way. Having a crumpet now. Leaving at 2 to do my volunteering and waiting for the boiler man due 10-12.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 11:05:49

DD has lost her lap top for 3 days as she wouldn't stop.

thinking101 Mon 24-Feb-14 11:58:01

Hi toffee. Hope your first school run went well, ours did so I was pleased (savouring in fact). Just been thinking about you. I know it is not much and wont turn your DC into little monopoly playing cherubs but I though I'd post my meal plan up i abit then you can see how I double up. This is much more efficient and gives me one less thing to do when Im having 'one of those' days wink

The volunteering is sure to give you a fresh perspective. I look forward with huilt to when I can do something. But for now I am studying with OU to keep me going. New modules starts soon.

LastingLight Mon 24-Feb-14 12:20:57

Sorry to hear your kids were so difficult this morning. Your consequences seem fair. My dd threw a major tantrum on Saturday, lucky for me DH handled it as they were out and I was wasting time on MN studying. This morning she was in a strop over having to put on roll-on as she doesn't like it, she would rather stink, and her friends won't mind. Sigh.

Otherwise you've been really productive, wow!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 12:26:02

Just had some salad. Feeling nervous about going in to "work." I see that I have convinced myself I am away with the fairies all the time and useless when actually pre kids I was very bright and capable and could use words of more than one syllable in the right context. The other day I called the chair the fridge and I am forever getting the wrong word for things. It seems like a confidence thing and I put myself down before anyone else can.

thinking101 Mon 24-Feb-14 12:41:01

Oh know I didnt refresh, so my last post is not an appropriate response to your last post, sorry about that.

I think that all sounds reasonable, as you've done what you said re toothpaste. Have you had a chat with him what might happen if somone at school notices his smelly breath - then say its your choice and back off and see what happens??? As far as you are concerned you have educated him on how to brush, provided the brush, paste and opportunity? I know its hard to see tem messing up.

Your cleaning sounds wonderful - I say this as I know the relief I feel when Ive actually done something. I dont know why it causes me anxiety, it's not as if someone is going to knock on the door and inspect. I have relaxed my standards a bit but even still I need to a kick to whip it into shape.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 12:49:37

I can imagine him saying he has no friends anyway and no one likes him so dirty teeth/smelly breath would make no difference. Both DH and I have teeth that aren't lovely and white (different reasons) and it upsets me to see my children have had similar problems (DS1 had a lot of antibiotics as a baby and no one told us they would affect his adult teeth.)

I had asked DH to do his teeth as DS2 isn't doing them right but that clearly isn't happening twice a day. DS2 either isn't doing them or just not very well. Something else I will have to do myself.

LastingLight Mon 24-Feb-14 19:26:06

So how did it go Toffee?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 19:36:58

It was great! The time went so quickly and it was easier than I thought. Turns out I am not useless after all grin. Only blip, I forgot to sign out as someone else had the book.

LastingLight Mon 24-Feb-14 19:43:20

Awesome! What did you do?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 20:09:01

I listened to a dozen children read. They really were so cute. And their reading was so good smile.

thinking101 Tue 25-Feb-14 13:52:37

Tricky little bugger re teeth. I understand, my teeth arent great and my DM has had a terrible time recently with hers.

That sounds really good re vounteerng toffee a real outlet for you and a much needed boost.

Well ay two went well for school run. I think taking them out last night to acitivty really helped as they both burned a bit of energy off.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 14:20:18

DD was horrible again to DS2 in the car and threw a tantrum when he retaliated and I didn't tell him off to her satisfaction hmm. I wish there was a way around having to get to school 20-30 minutes earlier than them going in.

DS2 wasn't happy I chucked out his Moshi monster brush and paste and I said I had warned him and he would have to pay if he wanted them replaced. Said he couldn't as Father Christmas left them. I told him lucky for him I knew the shop they came from. It is closed for a refurb at the moment though.

Missing feeling useful today. Have had a couple of occasions of wanting to cry as well and just wonder what is going on. Don't feel depressed as so much as lost and lonely. And trapped.

Definitely going to look into more volunteering and a part time paid job.

thinking101 Tue 25-Feb-14 14:27:03

Oh DD is flexing herself isnt she...When you feel better (well not stressed and rushed) would it be an idea to make a drink and snack for you both and sit for a chat, explain how she sounds and it makes you feel upset to think she behaves this way to her brother? - Just an idea to get her to reflect when you are not as harassed.

Well DS2 - tough! tough titties in fact.

What a contrast re yesterday, does this mean it is better for you to busy or away from the house...Its awful feeling trapped we in here and they all out there dong there things. Sounds like you benefit from being in an environemtn where it has a social element to it?

Dont you ever go out when DC's at school and just have a coffee/read? I often talk to people in coffee shops. Look at your week and plan your time.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 14:33:34

I have talked to her so much about how DS2 and I feel when she is the way she is. Nothing in response to me but with regards to him she says he does it to her. I am forever saying when someone is mean to you and you feel horrible, your siblings feel the same then you are mean to them. Miss the point completely.

She is forever saying why should I get told off and he not. Sometimes he isn't as he isn't as bad as her and other times because I don't think he needs it, other times I feel why should I when he is sticking up for himself. I tell her she is 10.6 and old enough to know better. She says "he is 8 and I knew better at 8." hmm.

Being out all day would stress me out but I definitely think I need to get out more. Too much time in the house to think, brood and worry is not good for me.

I have forgotten how to make friends, have stopped trying when dropped by people when I got ill and here I am.

longtallsally2 Tue 25-Feb-14 14:42:08

So glad that you enjoyed yesterday, Toffee. I think that you are me in another life, as I only had two dss, but have many of the same issues, including the battles over teeth cleaning and feeling lost when not at work. In fact it has helped me a lot, reading and reflecting on your feelings: I managed ds1 last week with a bit more patience and positivity.

Do you take all 3 kids in the car with you in the mornings? Could you let ds2 or dd sit in the front to separate them? (I had a friend who had a pile of 13 old pillows in her car. She built a wall between the kids so that they couldn't argue!) I hate it when they argue when I'm driving as I find it so distracting. I also pull over if they are distracting me and make it quite clear that they will lose screen time, or whatever, if they are whining at each other. It's probably the place I am most in control of them, as I feel that I totally have to make expectations clear, or we would still be sitting in a layby somewhere, waiting for them to calm down.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 15:37:42

It is just the two I take to school. DD is in the back as she wants to be in the front and she is just as horrible to him wherever she sits. If he leans forward to be near me she practically combusts and screams to stop breathing on her or says he smells.

When driving they aren't too bad. If I was to threaten to stop she'd be happy as late for school. When I said daddy would have to take them as I've had enough she was happy And said under her breathe said, we Won't be going to school. He's already said he can't take them tomorrow.

It's waiting to go in in the morning and I tell them to bring books and I have plenty of puzzle books in the car , but they just snipe at each other. She wants to get out but I'm not standing in the cold for 15-20 minutes for her. I could drop and go but can't trust to behave for 15 minutes.

LastingLight Tue 25-Feb-14 15:53:05

Sorry today didn't go so well Toffee. What will dd get up to if you leave her for 15 min? It's good that you realise getting out more will help.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 17:35:59

DD would be fine left, it is leaving DS2 with her that would be the problem.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 17:43:15

I get home. Have left 2 snacks for DS1 as he didn't ask either of us for dinner money and I thought he'd be starving. In his room I see both snack pots. He has been told numerous times not to eat in his room. He was also messing about on his iPod. I said I had asked him not to eat in his room and to take the snack pots down and do the dishwasher (he refused to do it this morning.) He said "And how was your day mummy, was it good?" in an would be nice to say hello first before telling me off.

Normally I would probably back down but today I said "I am not doing all pleasantries when you aren't doing as you are told." He looked quite surprised and I haven't heard a peep out of him since.

I have had a mouthful of attitude from DS2 but he has been sorted out too grin.

LastingLight Tue 25-Feb-14 18:34:25

Good for you!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 20:02:19

I am claiming progresssmile.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 26-Feb-14 12:06:20

2 perfectly behaved children delivered to school this morningshockgrin. DD will get her kindle back tonight (computer tomorrow night) and DS2 will be allowed to play on the main computer once he has done his homework.

LastingLight Wed 26-Feb-14 12:33:20

See, it can be done. smile

thinking101 Wed 26-Feb-14 20:41:24

Yay ..... Have to say. I took mine out for tea and they were great, actually enjoyed chatting to DS.

k473 Wed 23-Apr-14 19:28:25

Hi, my goodness it sounds just like my house. This is my first time on mumsnet. I have reached breaking point this evening with my two. They are so rude, answer back, ignore me etc but I can't help feeling it's learnt behave from DH. I am at the end of my tether because when DH is around they are as good as gold but when he's not I just have constant battles. I lose my temper then feel like a complete failure. DH doesn't take my concerns seriously because he never sees the behavior and at times seems to actively encourage it. I do let the boys get away with too much I think because I don't think it's their fault but our relationship is deteriorating. I don't want to take them out on my own because I know they will embarrass me. Really feel like bagging my bags but I know that it is not an option. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day

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