Rude humour or evidence my son's been 'accessing hardcore gay porn'? You decide.

(104 Posts)
Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 14:20:47

I've just come back from lunch with my friend. Our DSs are 11 and a half and just getting ready for secondary school. They've been best mates for years.

Po-faced she handed me a bit of paper she'd fished out of the bin with writing on it from both her ds and mine. You know the game where you write the line of a story then fold it over and someone else writes the next line and you build up a story together? Well this was one of those.

They'd drawn willy pictures on one side and on the other side written the rudest stuff they could possibly think of because that's what makes 11 year olds laugh.

Let's call my ds 'A' and hers 'B'

B: They played spin the bottle at the prostitutes house.
A: It got boring so they decided to suck cocks and enjoy it.
B: After a while they eat each other.
A: Then one of them went up to the bum hole land.
B: It got boring so they diced (sic) to have a threesome.
A: After a while they eat cock.

You get the idea. Anyway my friend tells me she's very concerned that my DS has been 'exposed' to hardcore gay porn and she doesn't want her DS to be affected by this.

I was a little shocked to see it at first because obviously my 11 year old doesn't use this sort of language in front of me. However, the more I looked at it, the more it seemed like perfectly ordinary exploration of sexuality mixed with a bit of 11 year old let's-see-how-shocking-we-can-be type of antics.

I'm very hurt at my friend's implication that it's all being led by my DS when they've clearly both enjoyed the game. I told her she's deluding herself in this respect. She's confronted her DS about and said he was mortified. I told her I felt she'd invaded their privacy somewhat and was over reacting.

I'm also told her I'm concerned about her concentration on the 'gay' aspects of it. Personally I don't see the relevance.

Autumn12 Fri 10-May-13 16:54:39

This is funny. It doesn't sound to me like anything out of the ordinary for boys that age.

It reminds me of when I was about 13 and my Mum found a note my friend had written to say that a boy at school had told everyone that I was "tight". My Mum went mad because to her it meant something completely different to what this boy meant. He meant that I had refused to kiss him, her interpretation was entirely more explicit...

I'd just laugh at the other mother for thinking you can catch the gay.
She's not too bright, is she?

Oblomov Fri 10-May-13 16:56:46

What A has written seems quite different to what B writes, don't you think?

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:01:26

I thought so Oblomov.

I think that if the more explicit one is your kid OP it's probably most likely to reflect the influence of having two older sibs than anything else.. but I guess it's important to be aware of this too.

I was 7 years older than my youngest sister and I KNOW she heard all sorts of inappropriate stuff from me. I particularly remember babysitting one night and being on the phone chatting all night and talking about American Psycho with my friend and rats... erm... being used to "eat out" someone. My sister talked about it to my mum, she was about 8 blush. There's no way she'll have understood it but I was older and cooler and so she was paying attention when I would never have even thought it would interest her. My mother absolutely slaughtered me for it (rightly so).

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:01:33

When I talked to DS about it by the way he did immediately say...'It was all B' and then I had to point out that I could see exactly who'd written what.
This made me wonder if - when my friend talked to her ds - he'd said the same, eg, 'it was all A's idea. He made me do it' and perhaps she took this at face value.

Otherwise I still don't understand why she's trying to deflect it all onto my DS. That's the bit that hurt.

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:02:04

In what way Oblomov?

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:02:30

A bit less gay maybe?

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:07:12

Working9 I worry because my 14 year old DD is extremely outspoken in front of my 8 year old and I have to keep reminding her she'd never heard words like that when she was his age.

It is mostly A that says gay stuff, B not so much.

Does the other boy also have older siblings?
In my experience it is the boy with older brothers who come out with this stuff, as they listen to their brothers.

If friend does not have older brothers, mum might be right in assuming it was mostly your boy. Either way, seems like harmless banter.

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:10:37

The gayness wasn't what stood out to me, more that one sounded more naïve than the other. But that's not strictly true I guess - it's just B uses the vocab more naturally in some kind of way, as though he's more used to it. But it is between them really as it is A who introduces the cock sucking wink! Just the use of "eat" is more porny/older sounding I think. I know A uses it too but B brought it up first.

I know well when I was at this age we talked about prozzies and did all those rhymes like
No. 1, they're doing it for fun in the bedroom na na na nana nana
No 2, he's taking off her shoe in the bedroom etc
I thought no. 6 and 7, "he's taking off her nix/taking her to heaven" were just about The Rudest Thing Ever. It was very adult and I giggled at it for hours many many times but I wouldn't have been able to make it up myself if you know what I mean?

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:12:06

Yes agree that it sounds as though one has older sibs and the other hasn't!

Restorer Fri 10-May-13 17:13:21

A is a lot more graphic IMO. I don't think either can be said to be "gay" as it doesn't say if they're talking about all men or mixed.

I think you are understandably hurt by your friend's instance that it was all your son and the gay inference, which is deflecting from the fact that there is a cause for concern here.

To me the most chocking part is the OP's "By the way my ds is pretty camp. Quite possibly gay" To me that shows almost as much ignorance as the friend. How can you drawn any conclusions about a person's sexuality from the fact that he's a bit effeminate at 11yo?

I'm glad you've investigated to a satisfactory conclusion Op, but I think you're almost a bit too keen to be laid back about it all.

I would be very concerned about the depth of sexual knowledge.
Working in CP, I would have cause for concern given the children referred to prostitutes, oral and anal sex, and group sex. Where has this knowledge come from?

The 'gay' thing is a red herring.

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:16:00

Quintessential my DS has and older brother (13) and an older sister (14) who regularly have friends round.

The other boy does have an older brother (13) but he's quite sheltered compared with my older DS I guess. I mean for instance that he doesn't have a smart phone or Facebook and doesn't go into town. My 13 year old ds - and most of his mates - have been going into town on their own since the end of year six. So I guess there is maybe a cultural difference between our two families.

My 11 year old DS is probably my most geeky and well behaved child and if he says all his friends know about this sort of stuff then God only knows what the others at school talk about that we never get to hear.

I do think they deserve a degree of privacy.

defineme Fri 10-May-13 17:21:34

I think the other women is scared, stupid and homophobic: very well done for responding to that there and then-I'd have thought of the appropriate words later when I'd got home!
I have a year 6 boy and from what I know of his friends this does all come under the category of 'big joke', but I work with 15 year old boys too and the amount of homophobic crap and objectification of women is appalling, they all think anal sex is a given, texting naked photos of yourself is an expectation, it's like they have to push the boundaries earlier and earlier..
I do think they were being inappropriate and I'd be having serious chats with my ds about that. Call me po faced if you like, but I think there's no harm in challenging 'jokes'.,I don't care if they're all doing it, doesn't make it right.

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:23:12

Restorer, did you ever have any friends as a child who ended up gay that everyone would have known early in life? I did and so did my sister.
My closest gay male friend said he knew at about 9ish. He did some straight experimenting but he was HUGELY camp even as a child. Not effeminate, camp. He used to say "behave!" to pretty much everything and did these amazing elaborate drawings of fairy costumes (ended up doing these as part of his fashion degree many years later).

My friend went out with him as part of his straight experimentation and we used to sit around despairing of everyone who was being so "close minded" about him and assuming he was gay. We were gutted when we were proven wrong!

At 11, it might just be something someone is experimenting with in terms of identity of course but "quite possibly gay" is a valid tentative remark to make about someone who is taking on this identity in a very defined, public way. If you said "he couldn't possibly be straight" that would be shocking. But hey, they're all quite possibly gay at 11 it's just sometimes it can be a bit more obvious a trajectory.

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:23:51

Restorer he is and always has been very camp. I said 'possibly gay' because I'm fully aware that I don't know at this stage. He may well know though. Most of my gay friends tell me they knew before they were 11.

I'm not 'keen' to be laid back. I just don't find what was written shocking and I'm very hurt and a bit shocked that such an old friend holds this opinion.

TheSecondComing Fri 10-May-13 17:23:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:28:56

Totally agree Working9. I also am trying to balance my duty not to make assumptions about his persuasion with my duty to make sure he knows it's absolutely fine by me if he is gay. Things don't seem to have changed much in secondary schools and my teenagers have told me NOBODY is out.
And we're in Brighton!

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:30:35

Defineme, absolutely. Had this bloody awful conversation with a group of 14 year olds about how they'd heard about some woman who had a broom put inside her and it came out her mouth. They were pretty naïve, one of them asked me if this was actually possible (in a science lesson).. but yeah, youtube and youporn and all that are now the norm and I'm genuinely surprised MoreCrackThanHarlem that anyone would think this was such a cause for concern in CP anymore.

I work predominantly with young people with language and social communication disorders and it's terrifying the stuff that they are their peers think is "average" while still knowing absolutely naff all. It really is a situation where very decent and genuine kids are going to end up expecting that they can abuse their female peers without even realising that this is what they are doing. I hate it and it makes me glad I don't have a daughter but terrified I have sons.

Restorer Fri 10-May-13 17:32:28

Yes, I also know and have known lots of camp people who weren't gay.

working9while5 Fri 10-May-13 17:32:50

This included a discussion with a young person who had been accessing porn and was deeply troubled by the fact that he didn't find it sexually arousing as this must "mean I am bent and will have to suck cock". That was an interesting phonecall to his family <<cringe>>. They are just too young for what they are exposed to. Their brains are too impulsive and it's a lethal mix.

noddyholder Fri 10-May-13 17:33:55

No the % of 'out' teens is surprising low even here! Some people on this thread are over reacting. I know we all think our kids don't know this stuff but believe me they do and can still come home and cuddle you and watch baby tv and be your little boys! I have always found a combo of eye rolling and disapproval at anything a bot bigoted did the trick. What if the note had ended in the bin like dozens of others on other houses? You would be none the wiser and neither would his mum like 90% of parents. the only thing here is they just binned it casually which suggests they don't feel it is worth hiding smile

Spidermama Fri 10-May-13 17:35:00

She needn't feel 'undermined' SecondComing. She expressed some pretty extreme opinions about my ds and I expressed my opinion. She's free to reject it.

I have to disagree that 11 year olds don't deserve privacy. Everyone needs a bit of that.

noddyholder Fri 10-May-13 17:35:00

Excuse typos

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