Mumsnet Talk

Hello,
After a bit of advice from those with children at preschool. I've just started visiting preschools for my son who's 22 months and had a look at my first one today.
They had loads of activities out: messy play, home corner, books, dolls, cars etc. all the usual and the children could just wander around doing as they liked for pretty much the whole session, though I think there is a story time and rhyme time at the end for ten mins or so.
Is this amount of free play usual or are some preschools more structured than this - and does it really make any difference?
I suppose I just thought that they would be a bit more directed but DS enjoyed himself and that's the main point!

I thik it is typical.
The EYFS promotes free choice for children.

In the very good pre school I worked in in Wales that ran mornings only the day panned out like so:
9:00 to 9:30
Children would arrive (due to funding some children could start at nine others at half past)
10:00 Carpet time- Carpet session structured session looking at the topic time for speaking and listening ect

10:15ish clean up time

10:30 toilet/hand wash for snack

10:45ish snack a chance for pesonal and social skills to be looked at.

11:1o is clear up children clear up the tables (wipe them down ect)

11:15 outdoorplay/walk/trail/activity

11:50 story/songs and pleanry

12:00 children leave

Hope that helps

My children's preschools have/had a similar routine to cloudhopper's.
There would be an intial sharing/teaching bit in groups, a bit in the middle for snack and some sort of story/song time at the end. Plus tidy up times. All the rest would be free play.

Pre-school should be almost completely free play. It's the most natural form of learning. A little bit of circle time or similar is good but it should be done in short bursts and with small groups.

You certainally don't have to introduce structure into play, they get enough structure in real life. They will have register/snack/lunch/home time to learn about routine, as well as all the stuff you have to do at home.

A good play school will set up a variety of activities each day. The children will be free to choose what they play with of those choices, and most importantly, they will be free to choose HOW they play with it. You can put out cars but they don't have to 'drive them in the garage this way, and park the car'. If they want to make the cars fly to meet the marshmallow people that live on the moon, that's great.

I would also like to add that in the setting I worked in we had a three week roleing programme with regards to an activity, so for example if we were looking at making paper plate faces week1 we would sit with the children and go through with the each child how to make the face, week 2 the stuff is on the table and the children can make or not but all the stuff is available, and week 3 the things are on the shelf and the children can get the things off the shelf if they want to

Very interesting; mine started this week and I had been wondering if the amount of free play was normal! Is consistent to others by the sounds of it though. Thanks

Thanks for all your messages.
I visited another pre-school this week with a bit more structure and I think I preferred the free play!
My son is still so young (not yet two but I'm planning for him to go at 2 1/2) that I can't see him engaging in structured activities very well. Also during the structured bit (group time looking at calendars etc) I can see that the older children dominate the session and the younger ones don't seem to get very much out of it.
So I'm still confused!

A good practitioner would ensure that they engage both older and younger children accordingly. Also the way we did weather (we never did a calander) was through asking the children what the weather is and once we had established the weather getting them to draw the sun for example on the white board. All our activites which are done on a 1-1 basis and we ensure that we talk to the children gage their learning and we tend to expect more from a child who is say three and aa half to that child who is 2 and a half.

You have to go for the place that feels right to you.

So what happens if your child goes in and plays with the same toy in the same way every day for the whole session?

By MoonlightMcKenzie on Sun 20-Sep-09 19:22:07
So what happens if your child goes in and plays with the same toy in the same way every day for the whole session?

It's called practice makes perfect and it's how small children learn about the world around them.

It's worth noticing how they use the toy

google schemas

So what happens if your child goes in and plays with the same toy in the same way every day for the whole session?

As mrz says.

Plus, they will be observed doing this and the staff will note their interest try and extend their play (and therefore learning) using this interest.

That's an easy one. For example, if it's a car they play with every day, but they refuse to do, say, art and craft. You put a big tray of paint out and stick the cars in it.

As Clayhead said, you note it and then extend it.

You'd also be suprised at just how many areas of learning one toy can promote.

Sorry, it's a trick question. My ds has asd.

Under EYFS pre school should be almost entirely free choice, with only limited structured whole group sessions.

Take my word for it--after the next election, EYFS will just be a bad memory. Admittedly, if you think that our current government knows more about raising kids than you do, you are in a pretty bad way.

DS started pre-school today & I also noticed the lack of a more structured day, but do understand the whole idea of free play and it's not that bad. One thing that really got my goat (sorry to hijack the thread) was that there was not even structure to snack time - the kids were told that there was fruit & drinks "out on the table" but those that were outside were not made to come inside for snack time, ALSO drinks were given in normal open cups! And 1 LO who does not know how to drink out of one yet was getting milk all down the front of his shirt when I asked staff about it they said it's what OFSTED recommend, that children from 2 should be using open cups AND be allowed to pour their own drinks!! And also that OFSTED recommend that if the kids don't want to come in for snack they don't need to - it should all be free play/free flow. This just doesn't sit well with me, any thoughts?

Children won't learn to use cups unless they are given the opportunity to use them. Some mums I know never give their children drinks in cups so they've all started pre-school without that basic skill. By 2/3, I think it's really important to have these self-help skills, or that they are at least developing.

I've spent the last week visiting 5 pre-schools & I'd say most have a reasonable structure around free play, so they have the children divided up into groups and some doing baking, some painting, some playing outside etc etc. The snacks all seemed to be stuctured in that they went in groups to the tables, at some the actually had 'milk cards' on the shelf which they collected to make sure that everyone had theirs.

As far as open cups are concerned, most the of pre-schools I went to only take them from the term after they're three and frankly I'd be shocked if 3 year old weren't drinking from open cups since my 2 /4 year old is perfectly proficient with one.

Snack time can get chaotic.

We have a system whereby we announce snack time and the children can come, 5 at a time, to sit and have a snack.
They find their name and put it where they want to sit.
They pour their drinks, but with help if needed.
They also get to choose whether they want what's on offer to eat.

But all in all it takes almost an hour to do, as there are 24 children.

And they don't all want ot come and sit down. Plus they want ot eat quickly then go and play.

My dd's were drinking from open cups and pouring their own drinks at preschool. Yes sometimes they spill them (like yesterday) but that is why they have a change of clothes. It is how children learn. The help yourself to snack is recommended too but our nursery thankfully doesn't do that as they all sit down for snack and takie it in turns to hand out the food which I think is good. I like the social aspect of that.
I think the EYFS is great. Why don't you like it Tomburkhard?
I think the admin side of it definitely needs a rethink though.....
Some Council's have used common sense in their advice on the form filling though.

I love the free play as my lo had previously gone to a montessori and it was a bit too structured for my liking.

However, I agree with posters re a bit of structure - I'd like more of a group thing with snacks and drink. My lo refuses to use their loo and doesn't eat or drink a thing - and I have the feeling he wont for his entire stay there - annoying as I contribute lots of fruit!

Some kids need a helping hand to feel more included.

We put milk and juice in jugs in the middle of the table and the children help themselves yes we spill things but the children learn from it. It is alos an opportunity for early sharing we also put the food on the table and the children help themseves. Our chilsren in the main will freely help themseves but we are on hand if they are sitting not eationg. We also get them to wipe the tables down with the pray(soap soloction) and a cloth tehy LOVE IT

The 69 learning and development requirements elements of the Early Years Foundation Stage are mandatory for all early years settings - unless that is, the setting has managed to secure an exemption (as some Steiner schools partially have done).

It is interesting you mention the term 'free play'. There is a huge debate going on at the moment about play - in particular, whether or not the EYFS learning and development requirements truly facilitate 'free play' or not. My understanding is the opinion of play specialists is veering towards the view that the EYFS learning and development requirements restrict 'free play' in it's true sense, because children inevitably behave differently when they are being so closely observed with a view to meeting such 'targets-in-all-but-name' as they have been called.

But don't take my word for it! Do some more research of your own...if you can - here are some links (which contain links to more links...!)

Try Googling 'Parent's Guide to EYFS'...for some pointers (both government and alternatives)....

Also there is another thread I started on mumsnet which may interest you see:

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/preschool/884496-Parliamentary-petition-to-downgrade-sixty-nine -early-years-foundation-stage]

(This thread gets quite heated at times...but don't be put off...)

See also Open Eye's video (I am not a member of Open Eye by the way, but I think the vid and info are excellent...this one features Dr. Penelope Leach who has been a child care expert for decades...)

For the vid see:
[http://openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/video/]

Good luck no one source can answer all your qquestions and I can't pretend to, but happy ssearching...
best

Sorry, links not quite right

openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/video/

and

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/preschool/884496-Parliamentary-petition-to-downgrade-sixty-nine-early-years-fou ndation-stage