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turning a breech baby

(120 Posts)
JRmumma Mon 08-Jul-13 12:01:27

IM currently 33 weeks and my baby is still head up. I know I still have time for baby to turn but i don't think it will as has been in this position all along. At midwife appt this morning she was talking about what would happen if baby doesn't turn by 37 weeks and the turning the baby by hand procedure sounds horific. Grateful for any sharing of experiences of this.

Jorior Mon 08-Jul-13 12:16:20

Hi there,

My DS2 was still breech at 33 weeks and I felt the same as you because the turning procedure doesn't seem nice at all. He ended up turning on his own so thankfully it didn't come to that.

This time around I'm doing yoga classes and our teacher talks about a move she calls 'the scoop' which is supposed to be good for getting babies to turn. Stand upright with your legs wide enough so you feel steady on your feet. Tilt your pelvic bone forward, then up in a scooping motion and repeat as many times as you can. If you feel more comfortable walking around while you're scooping, you can scoop with each step.

Apparently getting on all fours and making a figure of 8 with your hips also helps get a baby into the right position.

Good luck!
Jorior

Stropzilla Mon 08-Jul-13 12:35:36

My baby was breech all through my pregnancy, and I was scheduled for a c-section. On the MORNING of the section, baby turned head down! I still had the section. Could have chosen not to but i was utterly fed up by that point!

Please read up on this and be aware, there are contra-indications that you may not be suitable for turning, one of which I had and the consultant missed so I was very pleased I didn't go for it.

donttellalfred Mon 08-Jul-13 13:57:13

I also have a breech one at the mo, but only 29 weeks so hoping he will shift of his own accord. As well as the exercise Jorior describes, you can do a version of the yoga 'child pose', where you go on all fours, then rest your arms on the floor in front of you and put your bottom in the air - you might need pillows/ birthing ball to support your chest. This is supposed to help. Also scrubbing floors, apparently...

JRmumma Mon 08-Jul-13 19:44:03

stropzilla did you refuse the turning thing then? I really don't like the sound of it but think i should probably give it a go and avoid a c-sec if possible. I don't think i have any of the things that would prevent me from doing it. IM low papp-a but don't think that's an issue

Teaandflapjacks Tue 09-Jul-13 10:17:55

Mine was breech until very recently - 32 weeks (34 weeks now - 35 friday). I would have also refused the turning manoeuvre based on the known risks of it, for what it is worth, I considered a C-sec less risky than this manoeuvre (I read up a lot on it).

But what I think turned my baby was cleaning actually - hoovering, and using dustpan and brush on kitchen floor, mopping, cleaning shower floor etc etc. And actually there is a bit of truth behind this because of the movement with your hips etc. I should also add, since she turned I ended up going into early labour, and am not on bed rest until at least 36 weeks, but I think this is fairly unusual!

Pascha Tue 09-Jul-13 10:20:17

I had ecv at 37 weeks for ds1. It was fine and he stayed down.

puffinnuffin Tue 09-Jul-13 10:35:27

My baby was breech and I ended up having a C section (which a lovely experience).
I had an ECV. It was pretty barbaric and sent me into premature labour which fortunately they managed to stop. I was surprised how many people were in the room involved in the ECV! If I was in that situation again I wouldn't do it. It was a horrible experience and didn't work for me.

However a weird thing which did my baby move was going to have accupunture and he burnt herbs on my toes (can't remember what it's called moxi??something). My baby did turn during this but flipped back afterwards.

rubberducky24 Tue 09-Jul-13 10:38:19

my DD was breech from the 20 week scan right through to birth. I was offered an ECV but declined it - I didn't like the look of it and figured if the baby was going to turn it would do so of it's own accord. Like teanandflapjacks I also did a lot of research and found the thought of the ECV more daunting than the section. Went into labour naturally before my planned section, was scanned on arrival at hospital and once confirmed baby was still breech, I had to wait for an available theatre slot as due to it being a Saturday there was only one theatre open. C section and recovery were both fine.

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 11:01:41

Thanks everyone.

Well hopefully cleaning works then! Im on mat leave now and got lots of that planned to get the house straight before baby comes.

Do the midwifes etc just expect you to try the ECV or is it a discussion that's had as a choice?

Teaandflapjacks Tue 09-Jul-13 11:50:24

Its totally your choice with the ECV - you are well within your rights to refuse it, however they may try and paint it as non optional IYSWIM. You just said no, you have read the risks and done a lot of your own research, and you consider the risks of the ECV greater to you than a c-section. end of. If you did decide to go for it, you can of course also stop them at ANY point, even just before if you feel uncomfortable. And actually certain positions (they check with scan) are not considered appropriate for it. Have a look at the spinning babies website too.

xx

Teaandflapjacks Tue 09-Jul-13 11:51:23

You just say no I mean, not said no..! :-)

ilovepicnmix Tue 09-Jul-13 11:57:07

My baby was breech and remained that way. I tried moxibustion and the ecv. Moxibustion stank and the ecv was sore. I also did various 'poses' every day but the little bugger was not for turning. I ended up with an elective c section which was fine but im glad I did everything I could to avoid it.

mrsshackleton Tue 09-Jul-13 12:00:32

I had two breeches, they tried to ecv the first, but it was immediately obvious it just wouldn't work (not much umbilical fluid) so they stopped straight away. A friend had ecv and the baby flipped instantly, no pain at all, so not all experiences need be terrible.

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 12:04:39

I just watched the ECV on youtube and even though the woman looked calm and pain free, it made me feel sick and anxious to watch and don't think i fancy it!

I think it just feels (to me personally) like cheating to go straight for the c-section and not try it. But at the same time it only works 50% of the time, and apparently less likely to work if its your first baby, so im less inclined to put myself through something that i know will be traumatic for me (im a worrier) and less than 50% likely to work.

Iamhot123 Tue 09-Jul-13 12:18:02

My ds was breech and I too refused the ecv. My theory was that he was that way up for a reason. The dr did say to me after I told him that he doubts he would have been able to turn him anyway.

I did spend a lot of time on my knees but he didn't turn so I ended up with an elective section at 39 weeks. It was an amazing experience and although I am a little sad that I will never experience labour, I know I did the right thing. Recovery was relatively simple and what matters most, ds was delivered healthy.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Tue 09-Jul-13 12:29:49

I read ages ago that if you or your dp/dh were breech babies then this increases the likelihood of your offspring also being breech babies.
Here is the link, it is pretty interesting:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7317215.stm

libertychick Tue 09-Jul-13 12:36:28

My DD was breach - read Royal College guidelines for ECV. I refused the ECV and the doctor just nodded and agreed with me. I had the guidelines in my hand for the discussion with all the questions highlighted so they probably figured not worth the row! The deciding factors for me were that I was in a category where there is a low success rate for ECV and natural births post successful ECV are more likely to result in instrumental delivery or emergency C. I felt planned C was preferable to either of those options.

In the end DD turned herself 2 days before planned C, section was cancelled, then the little sod flipped back to breach again, then they realised the placenta had stopped working, she went head down again so I was induced - nothing happened so DH and I insisted on emergency C rather than a second induction attempt. Recovery was fine and DD great.

Another key question is the experience of the person doing the ECV - it's one of those things that seems to be a 'knack' and experience counts - don't allow a junior to use you as a practice run - ask how many they have done before and what their success rate is.

CorporeSarnie Tue 09-Jul-13 12:41:06

My baby was found to be breech at 35 weeks (there were some head/bum identification issues so not spotted until then).
I talked to my obstetrician friend about the risks of an ECV in the days before going into the Mat Unit, she helped convince me was the right thing to do, I was low-risk until this point, and was really keen for a 'normal' delivery, I remember crying at my antenatal class that I would have to have a CS blah blah blah. I had done lots of pilates and yoga, aqua aerobics, swimming, spent loads of time on my ball etc., so none of the pseudo-scientific positioning stuff made any difference. I tried lots of inversions between then and going into hospital.
On the day of the ECV, went in, procedure was calm and not painful at all, but... baby was firmly wedged in my pelvis and not for moving. So booked in for ELCS the following week (when would've been 37 wks).
4am the next morning I had a show, waters went at 8am just as I ate breakfast. Went in, dilated to 7cm by noon, obs asked if I wanted a vaginal delivery, hell no! Baby born just after 1pm, at 36 weeks by CS. She was fine if a little small and froggy-legged. And anyone who thinks that I didn't "experience labour" can f the f off... I walked to theatre, stopping only for contractions!
Choose whatever you think best - the baby will do what it does. Some go, some don't, some flip back, some go of their own accord (DH did this according to MIL). This is one area where you really can't control what happens. And at least there was no tearing nor damage to my baby's hips. We should count ourselves lucky really that we have access to positioning scans and therefore go in informed smile

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 12:45:19

Thanks libertychick, the more i read into this the less inclined i am to do it. It seems that the docs don't argue if you say no, which suggests to me that they would rather do a c-sec than an ECV, and if that's what their confidence is in, then it speaks volumes to me.

This might all end up being academic as im still only 33+1 so baby may turn yet, however he has been in this same position for a long time so i think he might be in for the long haul! I said that to midwife yesterday and she didn't dismiss it sp i think she might have agreed. Usually she is quite patronising.

BizzyLizzy70 Tue 09-Jul-13 12:47:35

Hi my baby was breech at 34weeks-ish. A friend said kneeling on all fours in a lukewarm bath turned her friend's baby. So got my husband to get me in position in our high sided birth. He then went downstairs and fell asleep on the sofa. Meanwhile the baby water was getting colder and my knees hurt. I was just about to shout my husband again when the baby completely flipped. I will, thank god, never experience anything like it again. It was fairly painful but the weirdest feeling. It was scary but fantastic to watch my belly move like that and I only got a limited view. Felt like being in a real life Alien film! I screamed for my husband and after it was over he finally woke up. I was very wrinkly! Not sure if this is a good thing to do medically so if you are thinking about it I'd get some advice. The doctor confirmed the baby had turned the next day - I didn't need confirmation!

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 12:53:32

corporesarnie thanks. The thought of it sending me into labour while baby was still breech terrifies me! Fair play to you for dealing with that!

Just as an aside - if you do end up with a CS - elective or not, it is worth asking for them to check the shape of your uterus. Breech babies are sometimes a result of having a bi-cornurate uterus (nothing to worry about it is just not the normal pear shape - more upside down pear). My DD turned breech at about 36 weeks - she had been moving around bum-up/bum-down throughout - but due to the shape of my uterus she then kind of got a bit wedged bum down. She was born by ELCS and was a lovely experience.

We didn't ask at that CS so gave VBAC a go for DS but although he was head down, due to my uterus he "would never have made it out vaginally" according to the consultant who did the Emergency CS. In essence no where for him to turn and get down (I think). If I had know about the bi-cornurate uterus after DD I would not have bother ed with the 12 hours of labour grin.

Good luck with what ever happens and remember, there are pluses (and "meh"s) to every type of delivery- the biggest plus is yours and your babies wellbeing.

fussychica Tue 09-Jul-13 12:58:55

My DS was transverse lie so was booked in for an elective c section at 38 weeks on a Monday - over the weekend he turned so c section cancelled. Tuesday he went transverse again awkward bugger so taken in for almost immediate c section as it was considered too dangerous to risk going into labour. This was years ago - the c section was fine and recovery quick better than the emergency c's many of my friend landed up having.
I think he was just too lazy to go through all that birth canal malarkeygrin

BadRoly Tue 09-Jul-13 13:08:30

I had an attempted (and failed grin) ECV with dc1 almost 12 years ago shock. My consultant was apparently a bit of an expert and it was her thing.

My memory is of it being a far more unpleasant experience than my 3 subsequent VBACs! Not necessarily more painful, just unpleasant.

There were many many people in the room, all gowned ready for theatre. The consultant confirmed theatre were ready before she started which focused my mind hmm.

I had to lie on angled bed with feet higher than head and tilted to the side. From my memory they rotated dc1 round completely about 5 times. Dh assures me she only shifted about 6" grin

If dc2,3 and 4 had also been breech, I would have refused ECVs with them.

BadRoly Tue 09-Jul-13 13:14:11

Oh and having read back properly, the day before we found out she was breech, the MW told me her head was engaged. I don't think it ever was - she was a footling breech and I used to joke about a foot appearing!

As a result I requested a scan at 37weeks with the remaining dc just to confirm their positioning. There was no issue with this with any of them at any stage. It was just written into my notes at the booking in appointment. smile.

DD was breech at 37 weeks, and the midwife suspected this, and suggested things like being on all fours, etc to encourage turning.

Thing is, I knew she'd been head down at 36 weeks and had been for a while, but the awkward dear decided to turn rather late on.

Didn't work, but as I was developing pre-eclampsia, I was advised my blood pressure was too high even to risk inducing and there was no mention of ECV. I had an elective CS next morning, at 38 weeks.

DS born very easily by VBAC 4 years later.

She's now 13 and still awkward at times grin.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 14:02:29

My second baby was breech until 38 weeks. I was all set to go and try the ECV, and she turned over the weekend, very late. She ended up staying put until 41 weeks, but was quite small, which I guess is how she managed to turn so late.

My friend was booked in for a CS on her due date, because her DC was still breech at 39 weeks. Lo and behold, she went into labour two days beforehand, was scanned, and the baby had turned during labour. Baby born naturally a few hours later, again on the small side (like mine). If the baby is large, I imagine this is less likely to happen.

Moominka Tue 09-Jul-13 14:09:20

My baby was also breech (as yours all along and i didn't believe it would turn on its own) and ECV was suggested when I was 37 weeks. I accepted as I really wanted to avoid C-section. I'm glad I did because it was successful and baby stayed that way (I'm 39+6 now). It wasn't painful at all and not even half as uncomfortable as I expected and turning itself lasted less than a minute. The only thing which I found unpleasant was the injection to relax the muscles, which made me quite shaky and faint.
BUT baby was in perfect position for turning, and I had lots of waters and no stomach muscles (I guess) which made things easier - I realize that it won't be a case for everyone.
Oh, and people present were: midwife and a lovely student midwife, who did all the monitoring, injection, etc, DH and obviously a doctor

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 14:29:55

moominka was that your first baby? And what is a good position for turning?

I apparently still have strong stomach muscles, a fairly small bump and baby is head to the left and what feels like up under my ribs. Its also first baby which i gather is less successful.

Oh and i bet you cant wait now!

LovelyWeatherForDucks Tue 09-Jul-13 14:32:43

My DS was breech - but not spotted until 39+6 (!) after being confidently told at all my midwife appointment that baby was definitely head down, engaged etc.
I went for a c section the following day rather than ecv (low chance of success given baby's gestation, short cord and engaged bottom) but after I had a number of complications during the c section I wish I had at least tried the ecv, but would have made them stop if I was unhappy with it during the procedure.

MummytoMog Tue 09-Jul-13 14:39:24

My BFF had an ECV for her bum down baby - didn't work, triggered labour that evening (obvs after she left hospital and went home) and she had to labour for eight hours until they could get her into theatre, at which point big old baby refused to come out because he was completely wedged in BF's teeny pelvis. It was foot on the table time according to her OH smile Everyone fine anyway, but if I had a breech baby I wouldn't have an ECV. It sounded vile. Mind you, my last DC practically fell out, so I could probably deliver a breech out of my 'flexible' fanny.

Moominka Tue 09-Jul-13 14:48:26

Yes, it's my first baby (and I can't wait! smile) Position baby was before ECV was with "legs extended up maternal left side" which doctor said was good. I could always feel a head to the right of my belly button. And my bump was (and remains) HUGE...

Andcake Tue 09-Jul-13 15:12:13

This is a good site with lots of ideas about turning baby
www.spinningbabies.com/

i tried a few didn't work. I cancelled a planned ECV as it just felt scarier than a CS. ECV only have a 50:50 chance of working which is fine but after researching I found a few scary things online about people being convinced ECV had led to still birth - after years of infertility etc I didn't really want to take any risks.
Ds is now 11 months old and TBH the fact I didn't have a vbac and it was a cs don't matter to me at all now but I remember agonizing about it at the time. All that matters is I have a lovely baby. The CS was fine and recovery for me was v easy.

noramum Tue 09-Jul-13 15:39:48

DD was breech until 35-36 weeks, I think, and then turned during the night. I woke up and actually thought I am in labour or worse.

I read about ECV and decided against it. My friend recommended a acupuncture procedure and I would have tried that if DD hadn't moved by herself.

As I had quite bad SPD all the typical exercise was off the plan as well.

libertychick Tue 09-Jul-13 15:43:11

JRmumma you sound exactly like I was! Small bump, DD's head wedged under my ribs and strong tummy muscles (alas not so good ATM). Midwife used to constantly comment that my bump 'was all baby'! When DD decided to turn herself it hurt like hell grin.

Iwaswatchingthat Tue 09-Jul-13 16:22:23

Breech dd1 (plus back to back) until 38 weeks when she did a massive turn around in bth directions. It looked like something out of alien!!! There is still time! Rocking on all fours helps. Also going upstairs sideways stepping iykwim. Good luck xxx

Isatdownandwept Tue 09-Jul-13 16:34:51

TOTAL DISCLAIMER:- I do not believe in jumbo jumbo pseudo science. Ever.

Except when my lovely masseur lady suggested reflex to turn DC1 at 36 weeks, I didn't have the heart to refuse. And 3 hours later DC1 obligingly turned by himself (he was a big baby and made quite a fist of it IIRC).

JRmumma Tue 09-Jul-13 16:57:40

So im definitely going to know about it if he turns himself then?! That's another thing i was wondering, whether i would notice. With this being my first I am completely clueless!

MissM Tue 09-Jul-13 17:04:25

My DD was breech and I did all the exercises I could, had been going to yoga continually through my pregnancy etc. etc. I was never given the choice of turning her though, as my waters went at 35 weeks and there wasn't enough fluid to turn her. So I had a c-section and now she's a strapping 7 year-old!

MissM Tue 09-Jul-13 17:05:17

Btw I don't know if there's anything about acupuncture and turning babies, but I had acupuncture to induce my second, and it worked that same evening.

Sunny20 Tue 09-Jul-13 17:09:52

Hi, my baby was breach, didnt find out until about 35 weeks, I was told about the turning however I decided to go with the c-section. I am so glad I did, drs let me even pick the day I could have it!! Yes I was sore afterwards but think I was quite lucky as I was up an about with in a few days. The thought of having the baby turned sounded really uncomfortable and was also told there was a chance the baby could move back. Whatever you choose, good luck smile

somanymiles Tue 09-Jul-13 17:18:17

Hi, This is a good website with lots of resources re getting baby to turn: www.spinningbabies.com/

I had an undetected footling breech and gave birth vaginally, no problems. I believe you can ask for trial of labour if your baby does not turn, rather than automatically having a c-section. If you decide to go this route make sure whoever delivers your baby has experience of vaginal breech births.

Best of luck!

I had attempted ECV with DS1 which wasn't too bad but didn't work. So he was born by ELCS. DS2 was also breech for a long time but turned by himself quite late on.

MakeGlutenFreeHay Tue 09-Jul-13 19:44:22

DH was a natural breech birth. No issues. I also know of more than one born recenty. Has anyone mentioned this as a possibility? CS doesn't have to be the only option if it doesn't turn, surely?

Smudging Tue 09-Jul-13 19:44:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MakeGlutenFreeHay Tue 09-Jul-13 19:45:37

Oops, didnt read somanymiles's post properly....but I agree.

Stropzilla Tue 09-Jul-13 19:57:12

Yes OP I refused it. It only had a 5% chance of working and there was a chance baby could turn back so I decided not worth the risk. The consultant also freaked me out with saying sometimes it can start contractions! But he was generally rude and tried to book me in for the procedure without actually telling me what he was doing or giving informed consent. I had a whole thread about it!

nextphase Tue 09-Jul-13 20:10:04

Another one saying look at the spinning babies website.

DS2 was breech at about 36 weeks, and I told midwife there was no way I'd be having an ECV, and how did she actually feel about me attempting a breech vaginal birth. She actually smiled and said it would be a pleasure!

At some point before 38 weeks he had turned (and I didn't notice - I had a fairly neat bump)

I also have a friend who delivered a (undiagnosed) breech baby vaginally - this was her first, tho she was a week or 2 early.

ECV or c-section are not the only 2 choices.

Ushy Tue 09-Jul-13 20:18:17

I would refuse ECV if I were you. What midwives and doctors don't say is that you are twice as likely to have an emergency caesarean even if the procedure is successful - what's more they are emergencies for dystocia and fetal distress.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15229015

Even if you go for it, I would ask whether you are going to be offered regional analgesia - up to you but can be pretty barbaric if not.

I'd give it a miss and go for c/s but I am top wuss in the wuss club BUT in this case I actually think it is probably safer for the baby.

My 4th was an undiagnosed breech vaginal birth. He was breech on a scan at 35 weeks, but they didn't pick up on it- not until he came out feet first!

My stubborn 5th was still breech at 36 weeks- I was planning a homebirth but thought if he was going to be breech, I'd be happier in hospital, as he was considerably bigger than his brother and I didn't want a section or ECV- if I'd know for definite my 4th had been breech, I also wouldn't have wanted either, but then this was my 4th- don't know how I'd have felt if it was my first baby. I did the spinning babies thing (weirdly it helped my SPD, being upside down), then at a scan at 37 weeks he was head down and stayed head down.

I tried everything to turn dd acupuncture, hand stands in swimming pool, hot bath and chasing her with ice pack and ECV. None worked had elcs at 39 weeks and it was perfect apart from the cutting her hip she still has the scar at 2.

The worst bit about the ECV was the faces of the people watching they all looked horrifiedgrin

dollybird Tue 09-Jul-13 20:47:55

DD was an undiagnosed breech - they didn't realise until they saw her bottom coming out! Very easy birth (was my second). I don't know when she turned but I was induced and they had no idea!! No hip problems either (unlike her non-breech brother)

ArtemisiaofCaria Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:06

I went into early labour at 36-37 weeks, a week before my ECV was booked. I went straight to theatre when I started having contractions, just twinges.

starlightloz Tue 09-Jul-13 20:58:19

My last son was breech and I had an ECV. It was a bit like a Chinese burn but was really quite painless. He didn't move at all and the consultant kept trying to turn him either was when it became quite obvious to me he wasn't budging an inch.I tried lots of the methods to turn him like swimming, scrubbing floors, keeping my feet raised above my head as if up against an ironing board etc but he was having none of it and was quite comfy where he was! I was measuring low on amniotic fluid though so he didn't really have much room to move around in. I had a caesarean at 38 weeks and all was smooth and perfect. Whatever happens try not to worry, babies tend to do their own thing and it usually works out for the best whatever horror stories you hear and soon enough you will hold that precious baby. Hope all goes well.

I didn't mention earlier, but I did know when DD turned round into the breech position. I was lying in bed reading and turned to DP and said "She's moving, that's her head up here." He said not to be silly but midwife confirmed it at booked appt next day.

VodIsGod Tue 09-Jul-13 21:44:26

I had an ECV at 36 weeks and it was fine. It took about 20 seconds and was just getting a bit uncomfortable (NOT painful) and then it was over. I stayed for an hour's monitoring afterwards. Baby stayed down and was born naturally in water at 40 weeks at the community hospital in our town. It was everything I'd wished for and I was so glad I had the ECV as my other two pregnancies ended in inductions and instrumental deliveries. Perhaps he would've turned anyway but I have never regretted having the ECV. It enabled my only positive birth experience.

FWIW the ECV was done at a large teaching hospital but a consultant famous for his technique!

ZingWidge Tue 09-Jul-13 21:52:48

I had EVC with DS4.

it was horrible. like chinese burns. and the drug they give you to relax the womb made me shiver, shake and gave me an awful headache.
I felt quite ill for about 2 days afterwards.

and it didn't work anyway, he was footling breech so I had ELSC.
I wish I hadn't gone for it and would never opt for it again.

ZingWidge Tue 09-Jul-13 21:53:33

*ECV
sorry, baby's all over me, hard to type!

stiffstink Tue 09-Jul-13 22:06:43

I had to be naked for many hours after the ECV, clothes hurt against my skin, it was like friction burns.

Glad I tried it though, I wanted a natural birth and I knew it was my one shot at turning a very wedged breech baby.

stiffstink Tue 09-Jul-13 22:18:45

It failed but still glad I tried it.

tallulah Tue 09-Jul-13 22:24:42

My 5th had been head down all along then turned at about 37 weeks. I was at the cinema when she turned and it was a horrible feeling.

They told me there was nobody in the hospital experienced enough to attempt a breech VB. I was offered ECV but it was clear that it was my choice. The alternative was straight to ELCS.

Went for ECV as I was petrified of having a section. The consultant did it, with a MW to assist - no-one else in the room. Painful would be an understatement. The MW asked me later if it felt as brutal as it looked shock. Baby was quite firmly engaged and would not shift, so was born by ELCS a week later.

As it turned out, not only was she breech but she was back to back too, so I think the delivery would have been difficult. The CS was fabulous and I wondered afterwards why I'd been so against the idea. I wished I'd had the other 4 that way as well grin.

storytopper Tue 09-Jul-13 22:25:04

My experience is a bit old - DS1 is 31 years old - but I will tell you anyway as it might be of interest. I went to the hospital for a routine check at 38 weeks. They thought he was breech and also suspected small for dates so I was called back to see a consultant. I was given an x-ray (had to lie face down on a table - eek! - thought I was going to burst) then went for half-hour ultrasound where the consultant talked constantly to a trainee he had with him.

The X-ray showed DS as breech - sitting on his bottom with his legs straight up in front of his face. The consultant estimated his weight as 7lbs 8oz and said I had a large, well-shaped pelvis and was therefore OK to try breech delivery.

I went back the following week and they found that DS had turned by himself and was now head down. I didn't feel any particular movement as he seemed to be turning all the time.

He was born at 40+4 and weighed 6lb 11oz - long but slim - which he still is.

CocktailQueen Tue 09-Jul-13 23:00:07

Hi
I had a failed ECV at 38 weeks but dd had been in the same position all along and it didn't work. Turned out - after my CS - that I have a bicornuate uterus (heart shaped) and DD was stuck in one corner, unable to move. The cord was wrapped 3x round her neck when she was born. that's why the ECV didn't work...

So sometimes these things work and sometimes not. There are loads of non-intervention things you can try - moxibustion, look at spinningbabies website for ideas, optimal foetal positioning etc. Go for it. BUT I tried all these and they didn't work, and in the end we knew why. So don't fret if things don't go as plan. A healthy baby is your goal in the end.

DevonCiderPunk Tue 09-Jul-13 23:13:03

My 1st was breech and couldn't be turned due to low fluid. Had a c-section. My 2nd was breech until about 32 weeks when I went to an active birth workshop and was taught to perform an adapted headstand! did these daily and before long, baby was in a perfect presentation, head down and facing the optimum way. Of course it could have been co-incidence...

Ended up having a section anyway for non-position reasons, but glad I gave it my best shot!

ToffeeWhirl Tue 09-Jul-13 23:26:08

I had my breech baby turned, after trying accupuncture, which didn't work. Turning didn't hurt, but it felt very odd and I didn't feel right afterwards. My first baby had been born after a four-hour labour, but this one felt completely different. I never seemed to go into labour, but I was in a lot of pain for several days. Eventually, I started bleeding and went into hospital, where they found that I was ready to give birth. My baby's oxygen levels kept dipping, so they became very concerned about me and said I'd need a Caesarean if I couldn't get him out soon.

When my son was born, shortly afterwards, he had the cord wrapped twice round his neck and three times round his body, which is why his oxygen levels were dipping each time I had a contraction. He came out not breathing, but it was only a matter of seconds before the midwife got him breathing. My DH was absolutely terrified, but I was in a daze.

I worried for ages afterwards that DS2 would be brain damaged, but he is an extremely bright, healthy seven-year old now. However, I do think we may have had a lucky escape and I do suspect that it was turning him from a breech baby that caused him to be all wrapped up in the cord and stopped me going into proper labour. A midwife told me later that I had had what they call 'a silent labour'.

If I were ever in the same position again (not likely as I am now 48!), I would not have the same procedure, but would opt for a Caesarean.

Incidentally, my first baby was in a posterior position and was successfully turned because I used Jean Sutton's kneeler-rocker (and yes, I certainly did feel it when he turned, although it wasn't painful). This was available from her daughter in law on 020 8890 8298, but I'm afraid this was 13 years ago, so I don't know if it is still valid. I am very thankful that I used the chair, as I had a very quick and relatively easy first birth. I'm not sure if it would work for a breech baby, but it might be worth a try. There is a website about turning a posterior baby here.

Hopefully, your baby will turn all on his or her own, but there's no harm in trying to encourage him/her as well.

NonnoMum Wed 10-Jul-13 00:00:12

Reflexology turned my breech baby.

Honest.

hatsybatsy Wed 10-Jul-13 11:22:36

failed ecv with ds. 4 doctors/midwives around me - each grabbing onto different bits of ds and trying to yank him round. I had to hold onto the table as was being pulled so hard. no space for dh to get near me and hold my hand.

they got him half way round then had to stop - there was no shifting him. I had finger nail marks all over my belly by the time they'd finished.

I was not made aware I had a choice about the ECV or that I had the right to tell them to stop during the procedure.

I felt upset and quite sick afterwards as didn't get on with the drugs they had given me to relax.

If dd had been breech, I would not have had another ECV - it hurt way more than either of the 2 CS that I went on to have.

vjg13 Wed 10-Jul-13 11:26:52

My consultant who was a obstetric professor was very anti ECV although the registrar was desperate to try it. I didn't want to try anyway so had a planned CS.

libertychick Wed 10-Jul-13 12:52:32

That's sounds awful hatsy. It's a shame that so many health care professionals don't seem to explain things properly and that so little emphasis is placed on your choices - obviously in emergencies they have to get on and do the best they can but for most things there are generally a few options available and the choice should be informed by a proper discussion.

mawbroon Wed 10-Jul-13 13:07:59

I tried everything to turn DS1, including ECV. The consultant took one feel of my bump and said the baby was stuck and he didn't want to use the amount of force it would take to turn him.

So, I had an ELCS where the surgeon discovered that my uterus was heart shaped and DS1s head was stuck in one of the lobes. So there was no way he was ever going to turn, no matter what I did.

It certainly explained all the rummaging around that ds1 seemed to be doing in the weeks before birth. I reckon he really was trying to turn, but just couldn't.

BonzoDooDah Wed 10-Jul-13 13:35:23

My first was an unstable lie - basically turning round and round and round (I couldn't even feel her - I think I had a lot of fluid). Anyway she finally settled head up.
A bit fed up with this I went into the shower and put it on as cold as I could bear and directed the water at where her head was. She moved away from it! So I kept on until she was pointing down!
It can't hurt as it is through your own skin so you'd know if it hurts - and she moved by herself - so I'd give this a go before anything more "mechanical".

JewelFairies Wed 10-Jul-13 14:29:09

My sister had a breech baby and refused for the consultant to try and turn the baby. Just as well, they had trouble getting her out during the c-section because the umbilical cord was unusually short.

ScampiMummy Wed 10-Jul-13 14:51:50

I had a successful ECV at 39 weeks. Wasn't painful and dd was born naturally at 42 weeks, a hefty 9lb so not much space for manoeuvre either. Only doctor and mid wife in the room, and certainly no stress. It just depends how much you want to avoid a CS. If you do, surely it's worth giving an ECV a try? Don't forget that it's usually the horror stories that you read when googling because success stories aren't particularly interesting.....

Kasterborous Wed 10-Jul-13 14:53:39

We had the same thing our DD was breech and they offered to turn her. We had decided to go ahead with it until the we actually got to the hospital then changed our minds. The consultant was actually quite pleased we didn't want it doing because he thought that it might well not have worked especially because it was my first baby. He said they had to give us the option though. They were very understanding and booked us a date for a c-section our DD never turned so I had the section and it was fine.

Good luck with whatever you choose and a c-section really isn't that bad especially if its planned.

PeaceAndHope Wed 10-Jul-13 15:14:57

I spent my pregnancy desperately praying that my baby would be breech or transverse so that I could have a caesarian. If my baby had been breech I would have entirely refused ECV and had the section.

I am surprised that some ladies were able to have a section even when the baby turned head down on the day of the scheduled section. I never would have imagined that the NHS would allow that. I thought the reason that they did an ultrasound prior to the section was to confirm the baby is breech. I imagine them secretly praying for a head-down baby so that they can avoid a section and save their trust £800.

MakeGlutenFreeHay Wed 10-Jul-13 15:52:13

I think a cs is very little different in price to a vb.

Onawhim Wed 10-Jul-13 15:55:09

My first was breech at 37w and I had an ECV at 38w. I'd had acupuncture and the moxi stuff the week before, and I think this helped make the ECV work.

I didn't think the ECV was too bad at the time, and I was separate to avoid a section. However I've found a few things out since and not sure I'd go for it again.

Also my first was (undiagnosed) IUGR which came as a surprise at 40 weeks, despite being scanned multiple times at 37 and 38 weeks for breech and ECV. I've since found out if you have a breech baby it's guidelines to do a growth scan, as there is a v chance of small babies being breech.

Onawhim Wed 10-Jul-13 15:58:11

Oh, and after I had my ECV, everyone at hospital who checked my notes said "ooh, you're the one who the ECV that worked!", like I was a celebrity!

So I think the stated 50% success rate wasn't quite true at that hospital...

PeaceAndHope Wed 10-Jul-13 16:40:12

MakeGlutenFreeHay

The price difference quoted by NHS is £800. The actual price difference when the total cost of vaginal birth is taken into account (such as future surgery for prolapse etc.) is £80.

Irrespective, the fact remains that women like me shouldn't have to sit there and fervently pray for a breech baby to have a caesarian.

Similarly women who want a VB with a breech baby shouldn't have to sit around and hope it turns. Vaginal breech births should be an available option.

Mumofthreeteens Wed 10-Jul-13 17:07:09

Dd was breech. I had acupuncture by the midwife and she flipped once and then returned to her breech position. I had her naturally ( if one can call it that- worse part was the intervention of the Dr). It was a crazily busy day at the maternity, so many babies born and when dd wanted to be born she wanted to be out immediately so fully dilated to birth in half an hour. Don't think a csection would have even been possible.

Mandy21 Wed 10-Jul-13 17:20:37

Haven't read all the posts and probably not particularly helpful but I had premature twins and although both were head down throughout, Twin 2 went AWOL after Twin 1 was born. They wanted me to have a section at that point, but given that I'd already had 19 hours of labour at that point, I asked if I could try to deliver him and they agreed. He was born breech, bottom and feet first. He was only little which obviously helped.

Good luck

Herhonesty Wed 10-Jul-13 17:56:34

have had 2 dc. both breech but found out second time round I had a bicornuate uterus. first time round had an ECV. it awful and would never recommend it. I cant actually imagine anything more distressing for an unborn baby. But I was hell bent on a natural birth so tried this and EVERYTHING else even bleeping moxibustion. In the end ended up with a c section as to be honest, they were so disorganised at the hospital that we didn't feel comfortable even trying a natural breech birth given it is a more risky delivery.

at the end of day this was a good choice - because of my BU I would have ended up having a c section,

Exhaustipated Wed 10-Jul-13 19:02:39

My second baby was breech, fluid too low to turn her. Was relieved tbh as I was horrified by the idea of the ECV!
The.section itself was a great experience (recovery not so much) although I have felt sad at missing out on the 'easy' second natural birth so many of my friends have had after difficult first births. Baby was breech all the way through pregnancy- I still remember feeling her sweet little head up by my ribs the whole time!

Hope things go well for you.

tulipsgirl77 Wed 10-Jul-13 20:04:31

I had a breech baby which was discovered at 37 weeks. She was feet first and standing on a nerve - incredibly painful! We went in for her to be turned, but after five minutes the consultant said she wasn't for turning! They offered me a C-section or a natural birth but proceeded to list about ten things that could go wrong with me and the baby if I had a natural birth.

My eperience of the ECV was v positive. The theatre staff were incredibly kind and professional and I didn't feel a thing. I would have liked a natural birth but felt it wasn't just about me and I owed it to my husbandand the baby to trust the professionals' opinion.

By the way a friend also recommended to me to crawl around on all fours to make the baby turn. I tookthe opportunity to clean the skirting boards (never done again since DD's birth!!) but it didn't work!

Coolhand Wed 10-Jul-13 20:42:20

My ds was a 'misdiagnosed' breech - basically midwife got bum and head mixed up and we didn't discover he was breech until I was 5cm dilated and had just arrived in hospital so options were out of my hands.

That said, I was a pregnancy yoga fanatic from 12 weeks - so was always doing the pelvic scoops, child's pose and figure of eight on all fours. I also went mad for the cleaning as heard being on all fours was good for keeping baby away from back to back position.

In short, positions may help a baby turn and give them all a go but don't fix all your hopes on it - some babies just like breech I guess!

maxbear Wed 10-Jul-13 20:56:06

I once had a lady that I had sent up to the obstetrician because I thought her lo was breech, they scanned and said not, when she went in in labour a few week later baby was breech on scan, by the time she was in theatre her baby was head first again! Unusual but they can turn late!

My own first baby was breech at 33weeks, she turned that week, lots of crawling around on my knees and walking seemed to do the trick. I would have without question tried an ecv if she had continued to be breech as knowing I wanted 3 children I would have really really wanted to avoid a section. Happily I have had 3 normal births since then. The second wasn't ever breech I don't think but the third was at about 35 weeks but not by the time it mattered.

Apparentlychilled Wed 10-Jul-13 20:57:07

DD was an undiagnosed frank breech (her feet were by her head). They only noticed when I was about 7cm dilated and I quickly got to 8cm as I was signing forms for the ECS, and ended up with a vaginal birth.

Someone upthread asked if vaginal delivery is an option for breech babies. It is, but many midwives don't have much experience of it, so there is often encouragement to opt for a section without discussing the reasons for it. To be honest, I was a first time mum and I was all for following advice to have a section, so I'm not dissing anyone for having a section, esp as i only found out all of this later.

Apparently, the reason they encourage sections is because usually once the head has been delivered, the birth canal tightens around the body to deliver it quickly. All well and good when baby is the right way round, but if the baby is coming out slowly and is breech, he/she might have restrictions on their breathing ( NB- I am not a doctor, and am only recounting my recollection of DD's arrival ). Oh, and I had a really big episiotomy, which again apparently is normal with breech babies, to make sure there's enough room to get the head out easily. DD arrived 72 minutes after we got to hospital, so speed wasn't a concern for her.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Onetwo34 Wed 10-Jul-13 21:19:27

DS was breech all along. The only kicks I ever felt were straight down. Which was a shame because nobody could see them, and nobody but me could feel them. I had wanted DD to be able to put her hand on my tummy!
But anyway, I had a CS and it was fine. I don't think I would have had the turning thing if I had been offered it.

JRmumma Wed 10-Jul-13 21:55:24

Thanks everyone! All of these responses are really useful and im going to try some of the turning tips over the next few weeks and see if that helps. If not, i don't think im going to try ECV as most people seem to be saying it wasn't very nice and\or unsuccessful. Don't think i would try for a breech vaginal birth either, im not that brave!

PeaceAndHope Wed 10-Jul-13 23:41:22

How on earth can someone have an "undiagnosed" breech? Is this another example of NHS negligence like the "undiagnosed" massively macrosomic 15 pound baby?

Apparentlychilled Thu 11-Jul-13 06:30:19

I was told that when you have a frank breech a head feels v similar to a bottom. When I say undisgnosed, my mw didn't spot it the day before I went into labour and the hospital mw didn't spot it when my waters went at about 5am. I was examined but went home till mid morning. It was only on my return to hospital mid morning when I was in established labour that it was spotted.

Given that DD arrived without a problem (and v quickly), I have no complaints and certainly no grounds for any suggestion of negligence, given that neither DD nor I suffered in any way.

VeganCow Thu 11-Jul-13 11:57:44

I had ECV at 36 weeks.
It worked.
BUT am convinced (with hindsight) this procedure led to emergency caesarian following a pretty awful full labour.

To be fair the consultant did offer me ECV, CS or attempt at natural birth. And he was a VERY experienced consultant who performed the ECV alone and in what felt like only a minute.

If I could do it again I would opt for natural breech birth

Fishandjam Thu 11-Jul-13 13:18:04

My DD was breech and had been for weeks. (The heartburn was INDESCRIBEABLE.) I needed to be emergency induced due to health complications, and decided to go for ECV rather than straight to C-section; initially it was started by an obstetric registrar who was a bit ham-fisted shock but my lovely, lovely consultant recognised that I was struggling to manage it and she took over. She did sort of gentle but firm massaging pushes, round in a circle, and all of a sudden there was a weird "thunk" feeling and DD was firmly head down. No distress, nothing untoward - though they did have the theatre on standby in case.

The worst bit of it was getting DD's fat arse out of my pelvis. I had a mental image of when a kid slides down the toilet and is sat there with their knees round their ears.

I was warned about the risks but DD was monitored throughout and it was a very measured, calm process, though somewhat eye-popping physically. And the scan room where it took place was packed - around 10 other members of staff in addition to my consultant, the Obs and my midwife - all wanting a look. I should have sold tickets.

Fishandjam Thu 11-Jul-13 13:19:02

Oh, and I should have said - DD born hale and hearty after 5.5 hours of labour (and a truly miraculous mobile epidural).

BubaMarra Thu 11-Jul-13 13:58:08

DD2 was in normal position until 35w when she decided to turn. I did a lot of spinning babies exercises and by the next week she turned again. I really don't know if the exercises helped or it would have happened anyway.

snowgal Thu 11-Jul-13 15:11:40

My 1st was breech basically throughout my entire pregnancy. Attempted ECV at about 36 weeks, a very strange experience which given the number of people who came to see it being performed isn't done much in our hospital! Was a male consultant and it felt like he'd decided DS was going to be moved by brute force - he pummelled by tummy for a 15 minutes before admitting defeat! Elected to have a further attempt the next week, female consultant had a very quick go at moving him but decided his bum was firmly wedged in my pelvis. Booked in for ELCS for 38 weeks.

From about 28 weeks I tried anything and everything to get him moved but nothing would. Spent most evenings upside down hanging off the sofa, tried moxibustion (awful, made me feel sick, definitely don't recommend), bouncing on ball etc. Although I would have done anything to have a natural birth I found CS fine, a very bizarre experience but no complications and recovered very fast afterwards.

Have a friend who had a small bump, who plays a lot of sport - when she went for ECV with her breech baby, the consultant took one look at her and said they wouldn't be able to turn. Her strong stomach muscles and small bump had meant there was less amniotic fluid and no chance of getting her little one head down.

I'm 25 weeks pregnant with my second and although I'm hoping this one will be VBAC I'd have absolutely no concerns with having another ELCS.

Hope it works out for you x

DS1 was an undiagnosed breech, we found out after 7 hours in labour when the MW was sure that she wasn't feeling a head. In my case, I was fairly overweight when I had him so I think it was difficult for them to feel the position especially as he was a frank breech. I opted for a CS then as I felt it was the best option for DS1.

DS2 was slightly smaller than DS (just under 7lb rather than a bit over - both born at 38 weeks). I had a positioning scan at 36 weeks and he was head down. It may be that he had more room than DS1 as he was a second baby but it may just be that DS1 was breech for a reason.

snowgal
I had a VBAC with DS2 but would have had an ELCS if he had been breech. I don't think they could consider ECV if you've already had a CS.

StayingZen Thu 11-Jul-13 15:54:35

My first daughter (now 21!) was breech. No suggestion of ECV, but I spent a lot of time hanging upside down over the edge of the bed, to absolutely no avail. She was eventually delivered by forceps in 2 hours 36 minutes total! The expressions of successive shifts of doctors and midwives as they read my notes were a sight to behold. Something else no-one seems to have mentioned on this thread and you might want to ask about – she had dislocated hips (v. common in breech babies, they said, on account of spending all those weeks with their legs up in front of their nose) and had to wear a sort of harness for a few weeks after birth, which kept her legs spread apart while the hip socket grew properly, as I understand it. Apart from it being difficult to bathe her it really wasn’t a problem – in fact, when they took it off she wriggled so much we almost asked for it back! Best of luck, anyway.

rufus5 Thu 11-Jul-13 16:08:18

Don't want to hijack, but I've just been diagnosed with a breech baby at 36 weeks. Is DC3, so there may be room for it turning by itself yet. However I've had CS and VBAC already, anyone know if they'll even consider ECV (which I'm not really keen on) or natural breech birth after having had a section, or will they just recommend CS? Really wanted to avoid CS, but not to the point of putting baby or me at increased risk.

rufus
If you look at the guidelines libertychick has linked to above a scared uterus is one factor they would take into consideration when deciding if an ECV was appropriate.

rufus5 Thu 11-Jul-13 16:27:33

Yea, wasn't sure how quickly it rules ECV out or whether it's just one factor they consider amongst others. Does anyone have experience of a vaginal breech delivery after CS? I suspect it's probably not recommended...

Apparentlychilled Thu 11-Jul-13 16:33:56

StayingZen- my DD had clicky hips (but not properly dislocated) due to being a frank breech. 6 weeks in washable nappies sorted her out though. I know hip problems are common for breech babies, but I just wanted to mention it to show that (like all problems) there's a range of how it can manifest.

Good luck OP!

No - DS2 was head down so I was lucky.

Queazy Thu 11-Jul-13 18:56:37

My baby was transverse - I bought a pregnancy ball and have been careful not to slouch for the past couple of weeks. My midwife told me today that baby's moved...he's now breech!!! One step closer to (potential) natural birth but not there yet smile xx

learnermummy Thu 11-Jul-13 18:58:42

I've not any personal experience but my acupuncturist reckoned she had a 100% success rate in turning breech babies, so could be worth a try.

edlyu Thu 11-Jul-13 19:33:23

I had breech twins!

Born vaginally with the help of an epidural it was a relatively easy birthing process .The second baby was ,I think, just pulled by his ankles as that birth was particularly rapid.Both babies weighed over 7lbs and were overdue by 1 week.I was only 5 foot tall and I put on less weight with that pregnancy than I had done with the previous one blush.

But that was in the olden days when breech births were not so managed as they seem to be now.I have never heard of some of the procedures mentioned on this thread.

Shanster Thu 11-Jul-13 20:19:59

Both my babies were transverse until 39 weeks. They both turned of their own accord, BUT my consultant told me he wouldn't put his wife through an EVC and therefore would not put a patient through it...he would perform a C-section instead. My second waited until the day before the scheduled section to turn, then settled in a head down position for 2 more weeks until he was delivered vaginally and weighed 9lb 10. Consultant was bemused and said he had no idea how he found room to turn in there at that size.

Oh, and I didn't do anything special to encourage him to turn

ZingWidge Thu 11-Jul-13 22:04:25

rufus- I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be surprised if they considered ECV.

and I would personally go for an ELSC - despite being a big fan of VBACs.


I

moonbells Thu 11-Jul-13 23:09:29

My GP was doing my 38-week check on the Wednesday when she found the heartbeat was a few cm in the wrong direction from expected. Off to hospital the following morning for a scan, yes breech, and extended breech too (legs straight out). I was told by the reg. that this type of breech was unlikely to turn with ECV and could damage his hips if they tried. So I would advise knowing what kind of breech you have. In normal breeches the legs are curled up at the bum end. Footling has one leg pointing more down and one not.

Did I want an ELCS? Heck yes! Day after that (Friday) I was in for pre-op meeting with anaesthetist and Monday DS arrived in a very pleasant way. He had frogfeet for a few weeks though! ie his legs were always curled up over his body rather than lying down as normal. My decision was easy - the ELCS was best for baby, even if riskier for me.

evelynj Thu 11-Jul-13 23:32:33

I'm breech & 38+4-booked in for elcs on Monday. Can't wait to get pg over with, ESP in this heat. A happy vaginal delivery would be good but the thought of possibly staying pregnant for another 3 weeks (and then ending in an emergency cs) is horrific!

I had elcs 3 yrs ago with DS & was a good experience, although I don't think there's any really easy way to get a baby out!

Good luck

courgetteDOTcom Fri 12-Jul-13 02:57:35

OP breech is far more fun and comfy than head down (for baby that is wink ) but when you start getting bh baby will quickly get down as that's more comfortable. Keep positive, tell your mw baby will turn when ready and doesn't need hurrying. A facebook friend was posting all the things she'd tried and is writing me an article for many magazine about her trials. in the end baby turned ready for birth.

courgetteDOTcom Fri 12-Jul-13 03:02:24

btw I had a crash section for breech labour and I told them after it's the only way they'd get me again.

firstly baby gets ad much possible time inside to turn.

secondly they get as much possible growth time as possible

thirdly there's a hormonal link between baby's development and labour so whether preterm or postmature baby will do better I'd labour is triggered naturally.

Ushy Fri 12-Jul-13 11:15:27

Courgette thirdly there's a hormonal link between baby's development and labour so whether preterm or postmature baby will do better I'd labour is triggered naturally

There is not a single study of quality (as opposed to low quality studies undertaken by those with 'agendas') that shows any difference between the long term outcomes of babies born by caesarean and those born naturally. It is part of the natural birth lobby's sinister misinformation machine (I think Kirsty Allsopp's term was a good one ). It plays on women's feelings of guilt and insecurity by making them feel that choosing a caesarean would harm their baby and imply that they are therefore a bad mother.

For instance, all the studies that 'prove' asthma is linked to caesarean are right BUT it is not to do with the caesarean causing asthma. They ignore the obvious reason; caesarean sections are generally done because of complications and some are done earlier than 39 weeks because the complication is serious. Early delivery IS linked to respiratory conditions but if the baby were not delivered, some would die.

I am not accusing you of trying to mislead Courgette - I am sure you meant it genuinely. All I am saying is that the there is a lot of highly misleading, selective information being peddled by the very clever 'natural' lobby and I would be deeply suspicious.

NHS Choices and NICE offer reasonably balanced information and if they aren't highlighting a risk (which in this case they aren't) - then I certainly wouldn't worry about it.

courgetteDOTcom Fri 12-Jul-13 13:26:49

Well excuse me for believing my doctors when they said it's why my 20 weeker survived at my 29 weeker has done so well and why they waited for labour for my planned crash.

ZingWidge Fri 12-Jul-13 14:29:18

courgette breech being more fun you say?

erm, not for me.
DS4 was a footling breech, right foot stuck just above cervical "plug" and everytime he kicked in the last 6 weeks I thought his foot would come through!
it was horrible, incredibly painful and scary!
no thanks, I much preferred the gentle pressure of a snuggly head down there with the other 5 kids!

courgetteDOTcom Fri 12-Jul-13 16:39:00

Yeah, not for mums, I'm sure I said that! I've had two footling, one vb and the other my crash. The one I had crashed used to do laps of my pelvis and swing her legs about. Of course that meant uncontrolled weeing on my part!

Ushy Fri 12-Jul-13 19:25:58

Courgette I think they meant they waited as long as possible which would have made your babies healthier but that is different to saying that all babies do better if labour is triggered naturally.
A huge number of women need c/s reasons for both physical and psychological reasons. There really is no reason at all for anyone to worry that their baby may be 'harmed' by the section.

There's no evidence for it at all - none, absolutely none - which is very good news for the 200,000 or so women who need c/s in uk every year.

courgetteDOTcom Fri 12-Jul-13 20:33:12

Ushy, I went into labour at 24 weeks, I think they meant that I triggered labour!

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