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Arnica

(43 Posts)

I've read somewhere its worth getting some arnica tablets for after labour to help with bruising (internal and external).
I don't know where to start. Where and what do I buy?
When do I take it and how much?
I popped into holland and Barrett today but the staff were really busy so couldn't help.

crikeybadger Fri 03-May-13 21:48:15

Funnily enough I dug out some info on this the other day. It says that it is thought to be helpful to have some level of arnica in the tissues at the time of birth, so they recommended taking arnica 30 from 7 days prior to birth and continue to take it until you feel completely recovered.

I don't know how reliable this is though as it comes off a type written sheet that I had in a file from DS1.

OddFrog Fri 03-May-13 21:56:55

I took arnica for a week before my cs for DS and after until better. It was a wee purple clicky container with tiny pellets inside. Got it in Boots I think. Can't say how effective it was - I may have healed nicely anyway, but I wasn't nearly as achey as I'd expected. Can't do any harm, I suppose? Good luck for the birth! My subsequent vbac for DD was actually quite lovely, hope yours goes easily and without bruising.

Runningblue Fri 03-May-13 22:00:25

I took arnica after labour and it really did seem to help
I also used arnica cream on my bump in very late pregnancy, as my tummy button was all bruised from being stretched so much- was very soothing for that too...

honey86 Fri 03-May-13 22:02:22

i used arnica and hypercal cream for my stitches after my 3... healed up a treat x

honey86 Fri 03-May-13 22:02:59

bought mine from boots btw x

Audrey2013 Fri 03-May-13 22:07:04

Try calling/visiting Helios or Ainsworths, they will provide the information on potency and when/how many to take (they also sell the remedies).

Fab thanks everyone.
It's such a minefield knowing what to take but I don't suppose it will do any harm.

Fakebook Sat 04-May-13 07:40:43

I sent DH to Boots the day after giving birth and the staff helped him find them. You take upto 3 tablets every 2 hours I think until you feel healed.

I had a second degree with dc1 and I couldn't even walk properly for about 3 weeks. I was swollen internally and externally and then got an infection.

With dc2 (another second degree tear) I'd read about arnica, and after taking the droplets I healed very quickly, within a week. My bruising and swelling went away after 3 days.

I can't recommend it enough to women for after childbirth.

Runningblue Sat 04-May-13 07:57:31

I was recommended it by my midwife beforehand and in hospital too...

Runningblue how often and for how long did your mw recommend?

nocake Sat 04-May-13 08:49:10

Homeopathic arnica tablets contain absolutely no arnica so you'll be okay to take as many of them as you like. Seriously, take an entire bottle every day if you like. It will do you no harm.

Cookethenook Sat 04-May-13 11:17:23

Well said, nocake !
I do keep homeopathic arnica tablets in my first aid kit, purely for the placebo effect. It's amazing how much of a difference a sugar pill can make when a child has a bump smile
Perhaps try an arnica tincture or cream with an actual tangible amount of arnica in.

That's interesting. Why go they sell the tablets in different strengths then?
Cream won't help with any internal bruising.

Cookethenook Sat 04-May-13 16:45:29

The arnica tablets you're looking at may be different to homeopathic ones, but it sounded like many of the responses were about homeopathic arnica tablets.

From what I understand about homeopathy, it is based around the idea that water has memory, and homeopathic remedies rarely contain a single molecule of the original substance as they believe that dilution increases potency. With regards to the measles outbreak the The British Homeopathic Association and Faculty of Homeopathy said "There is no evidence to suggest homeopathic vaccinations can protect against contagious diseases. We recommend people seek out the conventional treatments,". I know it's a bit unrelated, but I'd certainly be wary of any form of 'medicine' that isn't fully supported by their most official channels.

Tinctures can be ingested, so would be better perhaps than a cream for internal bruising.

Obviously you can use whatever you like, but I was just trying to suggest something that might have an actual effect that isn't purely a placebo.

Holland and barratt to 6c or 30c I'm not sure what the difference is? I'm guessing 6c is more concentrated but I don't want to waste my money if they don't actually have any arnica in. I'm not after a placebo effect. Thanks for your advice, it's a bit of a minefield if you don't really know what's in them etc.

exexpat Sat 04-May-13 16:57:16

Arnica tablets are homeopathic and so are purely placebo effect. Arnica cream actually has active ingredients, but it can't be applied internally, so not much good for childbirth.

exexpat Sat 04-May-13 17:02:52

NHS Choices explanation of homeopathy. I wouldn't waste your money.

KobayashiMaru Sat 04-May-13 17:40:53

Arnica tablets don't have any actual arnica in them. Why would you bother?

Because I didn't know that. Hence starting this thread asking for advice

Cookethenook Sat 04-May-13 18:25:25

I think most people would assume that arnica tablets have arnica in them!
littlemiss did the right thing doing her research first smile

Thinkingof4 Sat 04-May-13 19:07:31

They work better than placebo. There aren't many big studies as there is no money to be made out of them by drug companies. The active ingredient is on the surface of arnica tablets, hence why not to touch them, just put from lid into mouth.
Homeopathy does not mean placebo, I've used arnica after all my deliveries and at other times too and would recommend it highly.
COI medical doctor

Thinkingof4 Sat 04-May-13 19:11:57

Btw that nhs choices review contains a lot of mistruths about homeopathy. It does not interfere with other medications
Homeopathy is used by around 25% of GPs where I live. It's also widely used by vets. If anyone can explain how you get a cat to feel better from something that is purely placebo then I'd love to hear it!

Thinkingof4 Sat 04-May-13 19:14:16

30c stronger than 6c btw smile

Thank you smile

KobayashiMaru Sat 04-May-13 21:53:48

30c is not in anyway stronger, since neither have any arnica in them. There is HUGE money to be made, and is made, yet there are no studies since its illogical, anti-scientific, woo bollocks.
Of course it doesn't interefere with other medications, since it isn't a medication and it does not and cannot do anything at all for you. It's sugar pills, end of story.

nocake Sat 04-May-13 22:14:40

Homeopathic tablets contan no active ingredient. That's an established fact so 30c tablets contain exactly the same amount of active ingredient as 6c tablets... i.e. none at all.

And they work as well as placebo and no better. If you'd like to show me an unbiased, double blind trial that demonstrates that they work better I will be very interested... but I won't hold my breath waiting.

It works on animals because people treat them differently so they react differently. If you do a double blind trial on animals you find that it works the same as placebo.

Thinkingof4 Sat 04-May-13 22:37:24

We gave some homeopathic treatment to our old dog- he had arthritis. He stopped limping, after many months of being slow and sore.

No one will ever fund big trials, so it's a very easy way for sceptics to say it doesn't work. £4 for 125 homeopathic tablets does not equal 'big money to be made'. Conventional trial designs will not accurately reflect how homeopathy works anyway. If you don't like it don't use it. Simple solution.
30c vs 6c relates to potentisation, 30c stronger.

A GP practice I previously worked in did a small trial regarding treatment of warts and the homeopathic treatment was most effective. Including better than 'no treatment'. As I say there will never be any big trials as there are no big profits to be made. You can't have anything other than generic products so drug companies can't charge £5000 per month for treatment under patent.

ButteryJam Sun 05-May-13 11:15:45

So confused over arnica tablets. Are they any good for post-normal delivery? Is it worthwhile buying a pack from Boots in case I need it?

exexpat Sun 05-May-13 12:12:58

Homeopathy is basically a belief system. There is no scientifically plausible explanation for how it could ever work. It was the creation of a single man a couple of centuries ago who had no idea how the human body or chemicals etc actually worked.

The various magical beliefs it is based on include: water has 'memory'; diseases can be cured by minuscule doses of unrelated compounds which at large doses would produce similar symptoms to the disease; remedies get stronger the more you dilute them, to the point where the 'strongest' dose does not contain a single molecule of the 'active' ingredient etc etc.

The only effect homeopathy has is due to the placebo effect (which also works on animals). If you buy arnica tablets, you are paying hugely inflated prices for very small amounts of sugar with no active ingredients.

Places like Boots and Holland and Barrett are allowed to sell homeopathic 'remedies' but they are not allowed to claim they have any medical effects, because that would be a breach of advertising standards, as it is not true.

exexpat Sun 05-May-13 12:14:51
exexpat Sun 05-May-13 12:18:00
KobayashiMaru Sun 05-May-13 12:19:51

"Conventional trial designs will not accurately reflect how homeopathy works anyway"

Rigorous scientific testing you mean? There is no mechanism for how they could possibly work. You have to throw out all the known laws of physics to make sense of the claims of this nonsense.

Just apply the tiniest bit of logic to the process. The less of a substance is in the remedy the more powerful it is? hmm Water has a memory? hmm
So how come it has a memory for your arnica molecule that may or may not have at one time been contained in the water, but not a memory for say urine and cholera that at one time also passed through that water?

It's bullshit of the highest order, and advising people to waste their money on this shit and promising them impossible effects is irresponsible and unethical.

hellymelly Sun 05-May-13 12:21:45

I am with Thinkingof4 on this. My vet uses homoeopathy and has good results from it, my old doggie had it along with accupuncture and both were helpful. I've had good results from it myself, and even my science minded biologist husband feels there is something in it. Anyway potency wise 30c is probably fine, although I would take 200c after if you have a tricky birth or a c-section. I wouldn't take it for days and days beforehand, it is possible to "prove" a remedy, in that you can get the symptoms it should cure, if you take too much. Take a dose when you start labour, and then either a 200 or a 30c after depending on the level of bruising. Take one a day for three or four days and stop if things improve. The advice to call Ainsworths earlier was sensible, they will advise you and can post the remedy out in whatever potency you need, if you aren't in London.

Cookethenook Sun 05-May-13 12:59:39

Ugh, seeing as we apparently seem to be basing it's effectiveness on anecdotes as opposed to actual scientific evidence on this thread, may I chime in with the fact that before I did proper research into homeopathic 'remedies', I spent £160 on going to a very reputable homeopath (£40 per time every 2 weeks) for a fairly minor medical condition about 5years ago. Not only did it not have any effect on my medical condition, it delayed treatment long enough for it to become very serious, resulting in 4 lengthy hospital stays, two blood transfusions and losing one of my major organs. At no point did this 'medical professional' advise that I use conventional medicine, even though I was clearly getting worse. She just claimed that it was the process of homeopathy that you get worse before you get better, something that I have heard countless homeopaths say.

Now, obviously a bit of bruising caused by labour will not end up being as serious as what I had, but for the love of god, please save your money and use something that contains an actual ingredient that will help, not just water and sugar.

Thinkingof4 Sun 05-May-13 14:34:54

Not everything in life can be explained by current scientific understanding. Take the placebo effect for example. This is an accepted phenomenon but no one can explain exactly how it works. Placebo effect has been quoted at between 10-20% in some cases. It's an amazing thing, but no 'rigorous scientific testing' will ever really explain how it works, just demonstrate that it does, time and time again.

cook I'm sorry you had a bad experience, IMO homeopathy should only ever be used alongside conventional medicine, not as an alternative. The British Homeopathic Society would say the same. There are doctors/practitioners in every specialty who are way off the page unfortunately but that's not to say they are all like that.

KobayashiMaru Sun 05-May-13 15:25:20

Rubbish. It isn't that it can't be explained by current scientific understanding, its that we know for a FACT that it does not and cannot have any mechanism of action. The same way we know that a bowling ball can't float away, because it would defy all of the known laws of physics. We know for a fact that dilutions do not get stronger the less you put in them.

The placebo affect is rather well understood actually, but thats not the point. Homeopathy relies on the gullibility of people who buy into it and their talents for self-deception. Fine., lie to yourself all you like, but don't spread your bullshit around as fact, you are conning people.

Thinkingof4 Sun 05-May-13 21:04:56

Goodness are you always so rude and angry? I'm off, there is no reasoning with people with closed minds.

Ps I'm not conning people, prescriptions are free in Scotland, as is access to a GP. No money involved and people are free to say they don't want to try homeopathic and I'll (try to) offer something else. Not always possible though if someone is pregnant/breastfeeding/on lots of other drugs. Sometimes there is literally nothing else that could be prescribed due to interactions etc. But they can always have nothing instead, that would work as well as homeopahy according to you hmm

KobayashiMaru Sun 05-May-13 21:47:12

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Runningblue Sun 05-May-13 23:04:05

Placebo or not, i found it effective. Bolshy little thread this so i am off, op pm me if you want to, can't be arsed with it, as you werent asking for a debate

KobayashiMaru Sun 05-May-13 23:57:43

she asked is it worth it and the only answer is no

Runningblue Mon 06-May-13 00:10:47

She asked US if its worth it and i said yes. Be kind to others eh?

massagegirl Mon 06-May-13 05:53:55

Wow some nasty attitudes on this thread. Always a shame. OP I'll
Prob get some arnica, anything that might help healing is good for me and not going to break the bank. My NCT teacher also mentioned a post birth tincture that you can take with witch hazel, tea tree etc which I think is to put on your bits rather than swallow..I may investigate!

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