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Its a girl!- bugger

(247 Posts)
HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 15:14:59

So I am 19 weeks gone with baby number one and just found out its a girl. The baby in my head was a boy. We were going to play lego and climb trees and get muddy together.

I thought at first it would be ok, after all its up to me and my partner how we raise her, but friends with girls have said I may not be able to avoid the pink princess stage, my mother in law is intent on dolls and frills and the other "mothers of girls" are drving me crazy with talk of "cuteness"

I have no interest in "sweet little outfits" or those flowery headbands (how weird are they) or playing with dolls and I dispise the kind of girl who plays "dressing up as princesses" just as much as I did when I was a little girl too. I am so scared I am going to get a pink loving girl and that I will dislike my daughter.

I feel like a terrible person, I know how lucky we are to have a ( hopefully) healthy child on the way. Please someone tell me about their mud loving daughter.

Fuckwittery Fri 26-Apr-13 15:21:14

You will be totally utterly in love with your baby as soon as she is born. The baby will be her own person. You don't have to buy anything pink.

I have 2 girls. Dd1 is 6, she is adventure loving, tree climbing, rode her bike without stabilisers before most of the boys in the class, does 6 mile bike rides with her dad. She loves den building and mud pies. She does all this in a dress or skirt and trainers most of the time and also likes dressing up and princesses. I have no fear she is going to want to grow up to be a Disney princess though, she's too cool.

Dd2 is 3, she refuses to wear skirts or tights or dresses, it must be jeans or trousers with pockets so she can store her collection of stones and feathers and other ramdom objects about her person. She likes cats, dinosaurs, trains, tractors, swimming and the seaside.

Cavort Fri 26-Apr-13 15:24:20

I am 31+2 with my first so I haven't got any advice, but mine's also a girl and I also don't particularly want a pink-obsessed little princess, but I will doubtlessly absolutely adore her no matter what she likes and so will you with yours.

FWIW I didn't like pink, frills, princesses or dolls when I was young. It's not inevitable that you daughter will.

piprabbit Fri 26-Apr-13 15:25:20

Your daughter will follow your lead, at least until she starts nursery...by which time you will be so head over heels in love with her that you will be able to overlook the occasionally Barbie or sparkly hairclip.

Concentrate on getting a 'loving girl' and forget the 'pink' bit.

Thurlow Fri 26-Apr-13 15:26:18

It's ok. I always, always imagined having boys, so much so that it was a real surprise when we found out we were having a girl. So I know exactly what you mean. We don't like frilly dresses, headbands, all that stuff - but that simply means we don't buy it grin There are loads of lovely girls clothes in greens, purples, navies etc. DD is only 15mo so no idea yet whether she will turn out to love pink and party dresses. But the thing is, for the first year or two it doesn't make any real difference whether you have a baby girl or a baby boy, and by the time they might start to show a preference you'll be so in love with your child it won't matter.

I never imagined having a daughter. Now I can't imagine not having a daughter.

PeterParkerSays Fri 26-Apr-13 15:28:45

All the girls I know, even the ones dressed in pink by their mummies, love lego and mud and climbing trees. These are the sort of things small children, whatever their sex, have arms and legs for.

Start buying non-pink clothes for STBDD, look at places like [[ http://polarnopyret.co.uk/ Polarn O Pyret]] in the sale, then you can dilute any pink with stripy tights, turquoise / purple trousers and green wellies.

my DS is 3. I still have no more idea about whether he'll love football than I did when he was born. You may also find your DD loves more neutral things - beaches, riding her bike, going to the woods, and no amount of pink cardis will stop her from doing those things if she wants to.

Oh, and congratulations.

LandOfCross Fri 26-Apr-13 15:29:12

DD aka Danger Girl, climbs v high trees, beats all the boys in arm wrestles and wants to be a policewoman.

Her favourite colour is blue. Pretty, light blue, but blue nonetheless.

HTH grin

PeterParkerSays Fri 26-Apr-13 15:29:39

Yeah, that link worked well didn't it? hmm

Try again:

Start buying non-pink clothes for STBDD, look at places like Polarn O Pyret in the sale, then you can dilute any pink with stripy tights, turquoise / purple trousers and green wellies.

Mintyy Fri 26-Apr-13 15:29:39

Well, what if your dd does turn out to hate getting dirty and climbing trees? Are you going to be able to love and accept her as she is? If not why did you decide to have a child?

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Fri 26-Apr-13 15:29:48

I have a girl. She's 22 now but she spent her entire childhood playing lego, climbing trees and making dens. If I'd dressed her in frills and bows she would've decked me. Dolls were for beheading or dragging along behind her go-kart. In fact, I think the first doll we owned in this house actually belonged to her younger brother.

She still climbs trees and plays in the streams. I love my girl.

catlady1 Fri 26-Apr-13 15:30:22

I felt exactly the same, and kept calling my DD (6 weeks) "he" until a few weeks before she was born (not on purpose, I had just been so convinced that she was going to be a boy!). She's currently laid in her pink bouncy chair, sucking a pink dummy, wearing a pink dress. It was all bought for her, I wouldn't go for so much pinkness myself, but I have to admit she does look gorgeous smile. There's plenty of time yet for her to climb trees and eat mud and wear whatever she likes. As long as she's happy and comfortable I don't care either way what she wears, and neither does she at the moment. Oh and yes, you'll wonder what you were so bothered about as soon as she's born smile

LandOfCross Fri 26-Apr-13 15:30:38

Oh and she thinks those porcelain dolls are creepy and made me pack away the ones my mother insisted on buying her.

dingit Fri 26-Apr-13 15:31:45

I wanted a pink obsessed little princess! I now have a dd who would rather wear a carrier bag than a dress. She is 14. hmm ( I love her to bits though)

AmandaLF Fri 26-Apr-13 15:32:42

I always wanted a girl for my first. Also my grandma had a girl first as did my mum and my auntie so I thought I'd be the same. However I now have a lovely 10 month old boy and I couldn't be happier. I was disappointed when I found out but wouldn't have it any other way. I think we get an image in our head of what we'd like.

rubyflipper Fri 26-Apr-13 15:35:40

biscuit

So what if she likes pink sparkles? So what?

You will love her because she is your daughter.

DD nearly 4 loves pink. Anything glittery and sparkly too.

She also loves jumping into anything muddy, loves trying to climb trees, and unfortunately for squeemish me loves bugs.

I was very unsure when I first found out I was having a girl having lost my mum when I was very young and it being me and my dad, but as soon as I held her I wouldn't change a thing about her.

Having a boy this time round and am freaking out slightly as Im now thinking what am I going to do with a boy!

ItsYoniYappy Fri 26-Apr-13 15:36:02

You will be fine. I ate mud and climbed trees, I also collected tadpoles, played with frogs and had a baby bath full of eels!

<shudder>

I have 2 boys but DS2 best friend is lovely, she plays football, talks constantly and she is great. I would love a girl but can see me ending up with a football team so have decided no more. I read my pregnancy diary I made today for DC1, you should take notes, it's great to look back to you pre-baby. I didn't do this for DS2 and wish I had.

Tbh the whole idea of having a 'baby' will be alien to you when she arrives, it doesn't matter what the sex is, at least she cannot wee on you everytime you change her nappy! wink

exoticfruits Fri 26-Apr-13 15:36:48

It is pointless having an image of what you want-there is nothing to say that a boy would have been as you expected. It really won't matter once they are born. Respond to the DC you have and not the one you want. I wouldn't try and mould one way or she will probably be the opposite!

chattychattyboomba Fri 26-Apr-13 15:39:37

You will love your DD because she is her own person not because of her gender! I was desperate for a girl for my first! Scared i wouldn't know what to do with a boy...I got my wish- but in hindsight i can honestly say it would not have made an ounce of difference. When i held that little baby... She could have been a hermaphrodite and i would have still fallen head over heals in love. Girl or boy, they are all precious.
This coming from someone who would stare forlornly at pink dresses and tutus and think if i didn't get a girl i would just be miserable! Now i find myself gravitating towards the boy's clothing department!

there si only one way to ensure you dot have a girl and that is to not geet pregnant. My girls love getting muddy rarely wear pnk and build more lego stuff than you would believe, becasue thats who they are, I love them, I would still love them if they wore pink and ponced about. I actually find your attitude quite offensive.

Startail Fri 26-Apr-13 15:40:50

DD1 never did pink and frilly and at 15 still doesn't.
DD2 can be pink and frilly and play with dolls, she can also cover the house in toy cars and break her arm a climbing tree.
She ballet dances and plays rugby, the contact sort and comes home plastered in mud.

Girls are brilliant, you get pretty clothes and make up on minute and bike oil in trousers the next. My two can solder together electric circuits or do a French braid. DD1 wants to be a scientist and is a techy as any boy.

Girls really are the best of both.

chocolatespiders Fri 26-Apr-13 15:41:35

My daughter loves mud. will only buy clothes from the boys department and goes to cubs smile

tomatoplantproject Fri 26-Apr-13 15:41:58

The good thing about having a baby is that you get to choose what they wear. We got given a lot of pink shite when dd was born but I have it tucked out if site and only use it in emergencies. There are lots of lovely things out there in bright colours.

Also we are the ones to decorate her room - so lots of bright colours and as she grows we'll fight the pink.

I am absolutely sure that in time dd will want to do lots of different things - she'll be watching rugby, playing in her bike, running around in the mud if she's anything like her parents.

Congratulations - I adore my little funny girl.

megandraper Fri 26-Apr-13 15:43:14

I am anti-princess as well.

My DD is nearly 2. She loves lego (duplo) and is bloody good at it. Her favourite activity is 'play in garden' where she gets thoroughly muddy. She doesn't wear pink (most of her clothes are hand-me-downs from her older brothers, and i swapped all the pink gifts for other colours). She is a hard-headed, bolshy, fiendishly determined, bright little bundle, and much tougher than her brothers at the same age. I adore all three of them, they are all very different and all fascinating & delightful.

DD will still be the same person if she goes through a pink sparkly stage at some point. That may well be the least of my worries as she barges her way through life!

Cooroo Fri 26-Apr-13 15:44:30

Not read all the posts but... my DD is now 16. Was never really girlie, had a very early attraction to the 'dark side' (Disney baddies....) which has flourished. She's funny, smart, goth, knows what she likes. Girls do NOT have to be pink. Don't ban it, don't pander to it!

Girls are tremendous, and you've got an opportunity to raise a well-balanced one! Enjoy.

Your child, whichever sex it is, will be an individual and is not there to conform to your expectations. Please stop projecting your idea of what your child will be and get excited about getting to know her as the unique person she will be.
Plus, honestly, you will love her just as much as you would have loved a boy. It's biology, innit.

SmellsLikeWeenSpirits Fri 26-Apr-13 15:47:32

My 3 year old DS is going through the pink frills phase. He also likes mud and trees.

my dds are in the garden collecting worms right now.

insanityscratching Fri 26-Apr-13 15:51:59

I felt just like you, dd never wore pink.......until she learned her colours and then she demanded pink and because I loved her it didn't matter anyway. Now she is twenty, no longer mad about pink but really girly and totally unlike me and I love her anyway. Younger dd however favours jeans and Mario hoodies. I was so much more relaxed about her having pink this time and yet she has never wanted it.

shelley72 Fri 26-Apr-13 15:55:12

we have a girl (DC2) and she is in no way cute or princessy in the way that you describe. she is nearly three and does have particular preferences as to what she wears but i can assure you this does not involve anything pink or frilly! last night it was her brothers pjs (he's 5).

she loves duplo (and lego now that DS has it), fireman sam, riding her scooter, climbing and general running about. i would say that DS fits much more of a traditional 'girl' stereotype than she does.

enjoy your baby smile.

ivykaty44 Fri 26-Apr-13 15:56:05

my dd 15 will blow snot out of her nose just as well as the boys, ( I amy well think it is vile but the boys don't) is that what you want me to tell you? Or that she works hard at school or that she can take a bike apart bit by bit and replace the chain the inner tubes and the tyres as well - and I have no inclination to do any of that.

Or do you want me to tell you that she is her own person with her own thoughts and a determination that will hopefully bring her happiness?

She loved grease the film and would watch it over and over again, she loves swimming and I have photos of her up trees - but the photo show a pink top underneath her striped one - is that bad?

thebeastandbeauty Fri 26-Apr-13 15:57:24

I've got two girls, they're both completely different from each other.

One of them loves pink, princesses and dressing up.

Nice to know you dispise (sic) her.

Get a grip.

HootShoot Fri 26-Apr-13 16:02:04

I'm quite surprised you say you despise little girls who want to dress up as a princess. That's a bit extreme isn't it? You can't mould your children, she may be more at home climbing trees or playing with dolls but you'll love her either way. Well, hopefully, if you can get over some of your negative associations. Rather than seeking out stories of other mud loving girls you would be better putting your gender preconceptions to one side and treating your child as an individual.

AThingInYourLife Fri 26-Apr-13 16:03:51

"We were going to play lego and climb trees and get muddy together."

confused

You can do that with any child.

Maybe you should examine your sexist assumptions before she is born.

I'm sick today and DH is downstairs with our 3 girls. There is Lego all over the floor of the living room. DD1 (5) is just back from football. Her team won today because they have the best player, another 5 year old called Emily.

She also wears dresses loves the Disney Princess pencils she got as a prize for completing a 3 mile walk with Rainbows last weekend.

She's the best climber that frequents our local park - really strong, wiry and light.

She likes to play with my shoes.

She's an individual, just like your daughter will be.

I get your horror of the pink princess thing, but this will be your child.

I remember a nerdy friend of mind telling me how he was afraid to be the father of a boy because he didn't know anything about sport or "men's things".

I laughed and said, "but this will be your son. He's more likely to end up doing really hard jigsaws and sums for fun."

TrixieLox Fri 26-Apr-13 16:03:59

I hate pink, and rant and rave to anyone who'll listen at the complete lack of choice for the little girl in my belly. Walked into Next today and ALL the newborn baby stuff at the back was pink (sure, they have other colours but the actual newborn 'everything to get your baby started on its journey' stuff was a sickening pink).

I'm scared society is going to force her down the pink sparkly road cos that's all there seems to be for little girls - not just in shops but on TV (Peppa bloody Pig), toys plus all those mums that deck their baby girls out in pink, pink, pink, I even saw a pink pram the other day, barf. Maybe she's gonna see all that around her and naturally follow the herd cos that's what kids tend to do?

But you know what? If she does, so bloody what? I will never ever 'dislike' my daughter cos of something like that (for anything really). Odd thing for you to say by the way, presume you didn't reallllly mean that, that you were just kinda being flippant?

I mean, are you really saying if your girl ends up very girly, you'll dislike her? Odd! We don't live in the Victorian ages, you shouldn't FORCE her into the cookie cutter image you want her to be. She needs to follow her own path, remember, without fear you'll 'dislike' her for it?!

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 16:04:10

I appologise for the spelling error. I have no excuse.

TheSecondComing Fri 26-Apr-13 16:07:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ElectricSheep Fri 26-Apr-13 16:09:12

My DD insisted she was a boy until she went to school.... whereas my DS loved pink sparkly wellies, having his hair done and playing with his dolls house farm house.

Don't get bogged down in gender stereotypes OP... she'll be your special little sprog whatever she's like!

badguider Fri 26-Apr-13 16:10:38

I'm an outdoorsy, mountain biking, martial arts practicing woman who grew up on camping and lego.

I've just discovered I'm having a boy and do you know what? It will be JUST as hard for me if he's not into biking or camping or walking and nature and doesn't want to share any of them with me.

I think we all worry that our children will be too different from us, that we won't understand them and won't share any interests... regardless of gender.

noblegiraffe Fri 26-Apr-13 16:11:20

Clothes don't define a person, neither does their sex.

ArtexMonkey Fri 26-Apr-13 16:11:39

Oh fgs

Really?

I know it's the done thing to come on these threads and brag about what a muddy tree climbing ass whupp

YoniYoniNameLeft Fri 26-Apr-13 16:12:01

My DDs love Lego, climbing trees and mud.

They also like pink (it's just a colour FGS, my nephew likes it too, he's 14 and wears neon pink laces in his high tops to match his neon pink shirt), glitter. DD1 likes Disney Princess but she prefers Toy story and Spongebob Squarepants.

ivykaty44 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:12:02

Not everything is pink - there are many many blue baby clothes out there, along with cream and brown and green

I have never ever seen a boy baby dressed for 12 months in pink - so sorry but you are not telling the truth....

Mintyy Fri 26-Apr-13 16:12:43

I think if they do think like this in real life they should refrain from becoming parents, TSC!

Op - I also find what you have written offensive, and not just on behalf of girls. If you don't understand that your child is going to be his or her own person and may not even look like you, let alone have the hobbies and interests you want them to have, then you are starting off on the road to parenthood on entirely the wrong foot. Imvho.

AThingInYourLife Fri 26-Apr-13 16:13:00

"I'm scared society is going to force her down the pink sparkly road cos that's all there seems to be for little girls - not just in shops but on TV (Peppa bloody Pig)"

Peppa Pig is pink because she's a pig.

It's also one of the best children's programmes on TV - really funny and well acted.

It's not for girls or boys, children if both genders like it equally IME.

Just because something is pink doesn't mean it is shit.

thebeastandbeauty Fri 26-Apr-13 16:15:19

I agree, mintyy.

I can't get over why you'd have children if you were only prepared to have one 'version' of them.

Really? I mean, really?

Poor kids if their parent's think like this - it's just sets them up to be a disappointment.

Hopefully once you're a mother, OP, you'll be able to love your child unconditionally.

Fingers crossed.

YoniYoniNameLeft Fri 26-Apr-13 16:15:37

A little boy, I used to look after, loved Peppa Pig!

piprabbit Fri 26-Apr-13 16:15:43

Over 30 replies and the OP finally reappears to apologise for a spelling mistake nobody has mentioned? Really hmm?

ArtexMonkey Fri 26-Apr-13 16:16:04

Ing tomboy one's dd is, and believe me i could if i wanted, but fgs.

Like mintyy and others said, children are individuals, and although i'm not keen on the whole pink princess thing and the way girls are socialised towards it, i'm not going to sit around and diss so called 'girly' stuff as inferior to the rugged beano reading knee scraping bogey flicking exploits of tomboys and 'typical' boys because i think society gives us quite enough messages about how the pursuits of women/girls are daft and trivial whereas the pursuits of men/boys are precious and valuable as it is.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 16:18:35

Thanks for the comments. I got into a bit of a panic. The word despise is a bit strong, I really meant bored. I don't like girly women, I never have. I zone out when they start talking about shoes and spray tans ;-). I have female friends but they are not the kind of women who scream at the sight of a mouse or are incapable of doing their own DIY. I am not concerned about not loving her, I am concerned about not liking her. I suppose I suddenly had visions of having a child I had absolutely nothing in common with. Silly really

thebeastandbeauty Fri 26-Apr-13 16:18:42

Artex monkey - that's funny about the bragging about having a tomboy.

It's a very 'mn' thing - like being desperate to boast about how your wedding only cost £4.50 grin

thebeastandbeauty Fri 26-Apr-13 16:19:42

Nope, you've still lost me, OP.

You think a daughter would be boring, but not a son?

How so? Are boys and men never boring then?

OP I actually find your post very upsetting. There are many sides to all our personalities and to despise perfectly harmless traits is just horrible.
I think boys and girls should play with dolls btw. It's one of the ways we learn how to behave to one another. By modelling behaviour we see.

I really hope you can get past this because atm I'm feeling rather sorry for your daughter. Nobody should be shoehorned in to pink ribbon hell - but nobody should be denied it either.

MyNameIsAnAnagram Fri 26-Apr-13 16:21:30

Ds is two and loves baking, dressing up as upsy daisy and cuddles with mummy. If you were having a boy he might not like Lego or climbing trees. You are very sexist. I suggest checking out the "let toys be toys" campaign and cast some of your assumptions aside.

And Artex is absolutely right when she says 'i think society gives us quite enough messages about how the pursuits of women/girls are daft and trivial whereas the pursuits of men/boys are precious and valuable as it is'.

AThingInYourLife Fri 26-Apr-13 16:22:28

"I can't get over why you'd have children if you were only prepared to have one 'version' of them."

I doubt she was only prepared to have one version.

There seems to be something quite shocking for some people about the 20 week scan because (if you find out the gender) you go from the vagueness of "a baby" to the certainty of "a boy" or "a girl".

It seems to make certain things real. And it seems that you're finding out really important information about the baby, when in fact it's just an easy thing to see on a sonogram.

People's sexism often seems to come out, particularly if what they are told doesn't match their expectations.

LinusVanPelt Fri 26-Apr-13 16:22:42

We were going to play lego and climb trees and get muddy together."

confused

You can do that with any child.

Maybe you should examine your sexist assumptions before she is born.

^^ THIS!!!

Do you not realise that attitudes like yours - that tree climbing and lego are for boys, and that little girls are vapid things, ornamental really - are the reason why the toy manufacturers, and the clothing retailers, and the media are able to perpetuate this stupid myth that there's only one way to be 'girly'?

Don't buy into it. And if you do buy into it, don't blame it on the fact that your baby was born a girl. She might well enjoy playing princess and dressing up sometimes and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

But if you really assume that she won't want to build things and climb things and get dirty sometimes splashing in mud puddles, just because she's not a boy , make no mistake about whose fault it will be if you never experience those things with your child: it will have been you who let her down by limiting her World, not the other way around.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 16:24:11

piprabbit,

It was 30 messages in about 20 minutes! I popped down the shop, I didn't know things would be so fast and actually someone did mention the spelling error.

Fluffy1234 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:24:19

As the mother of a child with a disability I find your post upsetting OP.

TrixieLox Fri 26-Apr-13 16:24:25

Ha ha, AThingInYourLife, I was so into my rant, that I completely forgot pigs are pink! That actually made me laugh out loud. Okay, I probably took that a bit far, was totally unfair of me to pick on poor little Peppa and be a complete dumb ass to boot. ;-)

No, not everything pink is shit. But I'm just sick to death of it being thrown in my face now I'm pregnant with a girl. And it's a genuine consideration: do some little girls actually genuinely like pink? Are they aesthetically attracted to it? Or is everything around them making them 'think pink'? Genuinely interested and hope my little girl can find her own way (and if that way's pink, so be it, we already have a couple of pink outfits for her!).

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Fri 26-Apr-13 16:26:55

I had a boy in my head, too, didn't even have any girls' names picked out!

22 month old DD is a little scruffball, always in jeans, climbing stuff, jumping in puddles (thanks to an obsession with Peppa Pig) and has developed an obsession with tractors and aeroplanes.

Girls are ace, OP! And they're all so different anyway, they're certainly not all pink frilly-dress wearers. They're the minority in my opinion.

thebeastandbeauty Fri 26-Apr-13 16:26:59

"I'm just sick to death of it being thrown in my face now I'm pregnant with a girl"

I've had 2 girls. I don't actually know what you're talking about.

You don't like the pink clothes, you don't buy them.

Not difficult.

AThingInYourLife Fri 26-Apr-13 16:27:31

"I really meant bored. I don't like girly women, I never have. I zone out when they start talking about shoes and spray tans"

hmm

Aren't you just great being so superior to other women?

You're practically as cool as a MAN.

HeadFairy Fri 26-Apr-13 16:27:53

I suddenly had visions of having a child I had absolutely nothing in common with

You will have something in common with her.... your DNA.

To be fair to you, it really isn't something anyone understands until they've had their own children. It's inexplicable but even if you daughter turns out to be a full on tiara wearing, fairy wing owning, pinkest princess in town you will still love the bones of her because she's yours.

Really, truly, affinity for mud and trees is NOT innately gender-linked. There is no evidence for that idea whatsoever (although children do get socialised into gender roles). Read Lise Eliot's Pink Brain, Blue Brain for a neuroscientist's overview of the relevant research.

YES some girls like pink. Some like purple. Some like green. Kind of like the women they will grow up to be. Saying 'my daughter can never have pink!' I as bad as saying she can ONLy have pink.

I have three daughters and his thread is really depressing me. I didn't realise my precious girls who like climbing and nail varnish and swimming and bags and trains and shoes and animals were so despised.

Springforward Fri 26-Apr-13 16:32:11

OP, I kind of get where you're coming from. I'm currently carrying a girl (barring scan mistake, obviously!) and I'm not doing very well with the idea of a pink princess playing with toy vacuum cleaners and irons. So I'm dealing with it by not buying anything pink. I kind of figure that if she's my daughter then it's up to me how I dress her in the early years and what toys and activities I make available to her, and whether or not they are gender neutral. DH is thrilled at the idea of having a girl this time but also feels the same way about frilly dresses and "girl" toys etc. When she's at nursery I guess we'll just have to see how things go.

FWIW DS may have developed a slightly worrying interest in guns at the grand old age of 4 but that doesn't mean he's got a toy arsenal at home....

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Fri 26-Apr-13 16:32:28

You are going to get who you get and you won't mind at all. You may not want a pink frilly girl but, I promise you that, you won't mind if you do. Chances are she will be more like you but you will love her for who she is.
My DD 16 is much more likely to help me with the DIY, climb trees, drive (?) etc etc than her brother although she is not adverse to glitter and girly'ness

TigerSwallowTail Fri 26-Apr-13 16:33:05

I'm pregnant with dd just now so can't comment on my experience of raising girls just yet but when I was young I despised the colour pink, would only wear jeans or dungarees and played with action men. I have a DS and he hates climbing trees and getting muddy so you'd have no guarantee that if you had a boy that he'd be exactly the way you imagined him anyway.

kelda Fri 26-Apr-13 16:34:53

You do seem to have a very derogatory idea of what women are like.

I don't know anyone who uses spray tans or screams at the sight of a mousehmm And even if they did, that doesn't make them worth any less.

You seem to dislike women. Let's hope you don't pass this dislike onto your daughter.

Branleuse Fri 26-Apr-13 16:36:14

dont buy the pink sparkly stuff if you dont want her to wear it.

AThingInYourLife Fri 26-Apr-13 16:38:17

"And it's a genuine consideration: do some little girls actually genuinely like pink? Are they aesthetically attracted to it? Or is everything around them making them 'think pink'?"

IME and O there is a massive cultural pressure on girls to like pink.

And for little girls it is a lot more than just a colour.

Both my bigger girls (at around 3, when they start to think of themselves as a girl) went through a pink phase.

DD1 is (thankfully) through it. DD2 thinks that if you wear trousers that makes you a boy.

I don't agree that you can't influence your children to like certain things. You can't stop them wanting to be a princess, but you can talk to them about what it means to be a princess and how rubbish it is to want nothing out of life other than looking pretty.

There is a real issue with the messages little girls get about the toys they should play with, the things they should like.

But sexist assumptions about how boys are brilliant and girls are boring and vapid are even more damaging than full buy-in to the pink agenda. At least people who deliberately aim to raise little "princesses" recognise that girls are cool.

Tingalingle Fri 26-Apr-13 16:38:27

Well, OP, I'll admit to being rather bemused by DD's pink phase and earnest wish to play Sylvanian Families with me whilst wearing a tutu, but you know what? I find her very far from boring. She's a strong-minded, intelligent young girl, and I'm far less readily irritated by her differences from me than by the boys' remarkable inheritance of most of my more obvious faults (sigh).

mind you DH has taken longer to come to terms with DS doing dance for GCSE

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 16:39:53

I never DID think these things were gender linked, I was perfectly happy with having a girl immediately after I found out, but then got freaked out by the stories from other mothers and family friends who kept telling me about how she was going to be and what it was going to be like. I started to think that maybe I was wrong, that I was unusual and that for 90% of girls there was some innate "frilly" gene.

I am sorry if people are offended that I do not like girly girls and have never got on with them. I have plenty of women friends. I LIKE plenty of women, I just don't like GIRLY. There is a big difference and maybe the people who don't see that are being a bit sexist.

midori1999 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:41:31

Aren't you just great being so superior to other women?

You're practically as cool as a MAN.

Quite.

How sad OP that you think you are more likely to have more in common with a child of the opposite gender to yourself. How sad that you don't think you fit the 'traditional' girls' mould, but yet you gender sterotype so strongly. hmm

I have thee boys, I have had three girls, although only one girl is living. It winds the crap out of me that everyone says 'oh, a girl after three boys' because there really isn't much difference. My boys are all fairly similar to me, so is my daughter. Last night my DD, 22 months, was in the bath with her brother who farted. She then started to try her best to fart, which she did successfully a few times, and found it absolutely hilarious, she couldn't stop giggling. My boys were/are the same.

Regardless of gender anyway, children are individuals and they may turn out nothing like you, but they are your children and you will love them and admire them regardless.

Branleuse Fri 26-Apr-13 16:43:13

I have 2 boys and a girl and my dd is far more rough and tumble than either of my boys ever were, although shes fairly keen on pink glittery princessy stuff too, which im not a fan of, but as long as she doesnt define herself by it, im not too bothered.

Honestly, girls and boys are much the same imo, and they all like lego and climbing. Really, dont worry about it

ArtexMonkey Fri 26-Apr-13 16:44:21

thebeast int it just? And books as well 'omg i have so many books i can't get in my front room in fact my house is made out of books and we have to eat our dinner off books'

grin

Mintyy Fri 26-Apr-13 16:50:08

Oh I would be so deeply upset if Mumsnet didn't have those bonkers books threads every now and then! I love them.

"We have 150 books in our downstairs loo alone"

"I couldn't breathe without books"

"I'd rather lose my house than my books"

etc

Heinz55 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:51:14

I was the same - and my DD is very girly. Mostly though she is a lovely sweet person and I feel very very privilaged to have her. What made me get over my disappointment was other people voiced their disappointment: oh what a shame, maybe the next one will be a boy (said by two people).

SantanaLopez Fri 26-Apr-13 16:51:22

But don't you see you're just as bad as everyone else by stating that you don't like girly?

Heinz55 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:52:36

PS I've since had a boy and my DD - though girly - was far more of a daredevil than he. We spent most of her first 5 years in a&e. He is far too cautious to have even a scraped knee.

My niece loves everything pink and sparkly. She also loves digging in the garden, mud, streams, frogs and playing football. She's five. Girls aren't one thing or the other they are proper individuals and lots of fun!

Meringue33 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:53:28

I wanted a girl - got a boy. It took me two days to get over the disappointment, but for a while I was still secretly saying to myself "next one will be a girl."

15 weeks on and I love him so much I want a whole family of boys, he's brilliant and I can't imagine why I ever thought I'd want a girl!

FOURBOYSUNDER6 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:53:40

I agree with fluffy 1234 !!!
Very honest of you to share your feelings op - but quite upsetting/insensitive too:

I had two miscarriages before I had ds1 and gender preferences were the last thing on my mind during this successful pregnancy.

However, I think these feelings are normal and common and I had the odd 'moment ' at times even though deep down I knew health was priority and i would never have it any other way now

When I was pregnant with ds4 people often presumed I must be 'trying for a girl' otherwise I would not have had 'so many children'.

Once you have this baby you will be thrilled and you will bond and you would not wish to swop it for a boy ever !!!

My niece is gorgeous in beautiful navy and other colours ( my sister is not at all a girly pinkie lover) and plays with her brothers toys over her own ....

When I was young and foolish i dreamed of a child who would read quietly and play the piano and be a lovely nerdy geek. I naively presumed I would have a daughter given the odds of 50:50 Instead I have four boisterous boys. Nature is funny.

Wishing you a healthy and happy pregnancy ....

Maybe choose a name ???? It might help you bond ???

You may also be blessed with a son in the future ?????

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 16:55:26

I really find this type of post offensive. If you don't want a girl then you shouldn't have got pregnant. You don't know just how lucky you are being pregnant. I've been down the infertility route (thankfully blessed with a dd from treatment and a further dd2) and have a friend who would give her left arm to get pregnant at the moment.

What unbelievable pressure you are placing on your unborn daughter. Heaven forbid she wants to play with dolls, or like pink. Chances are she will at some stage and you will just have to grit your teeth through it all. It's called unconditional love. I hope you experience this, then look back at this post and realise how completely RIDICULOUS you sound.

Meringue33 Fri 26-Apr-13 16:55:48

Sorry, moral of the story was, you will fall in love with whatever you have! Pick an awesome name for her now and start talking to her about all the fun stuff you're going to do together - you're halfway there!

snickersnacker Fri 26-Apr-13 16:56:01

You know your daughter's sex.

You don't know her gender and you won't for some time.

honey86 Fri 26-Apr-13 17:00:28

ive got 2 boys and a girl. im not a fan a pink n sparkly either, but my daughter is. but we have such a good relationship.

i dont care what toys my kids play with or what colours they are into. i let them grow into what they want. i didnt have them to create a copy of me.

You're getting a little person to love just like you !
What's not to love ?!
(I have one of each BTW, both their own unique selves of course smile)

mistlethrush Fri 26-Apr-13 17:06:46

I really wanted a girl. By the time I eventually got sucessfully past 10 weeks (6 years down the line) I really didn't care what the sex was - and by the end of the pregnancy was even veering slightly towards a boy as we have two nieces and he would be the first boy in the family. DS is now 8.

As a child I loved playing in the mud, riding my bicycle, climbing trees and playing with lego - and I never went through a 'pink' phase (although I think the whole clothes issue was somewhat different then). You don't need to buy pink things, you can encourage outdoor pursuits - just enjoy having a healthy, happy child and help them to become the person they want to.

rrreow Fri 26-Apr-13 17:07:47

We were going to play lego and climb trees and get muddy together.

I'm a girl (last time I checked.. I better be as otherwise there's nowhere for the baby I'm pregnant with to come out of..), my favourite toy as a child was (totally still is..) lego and I climbed trees a lot, and I wasn't even particularly a 'tomboy' as such, they were just my interests along with other more 'girly' things.

I understand gender disappointment though. I had it but the other way around (expecting 2nd boy when I really wanted a daughter). I think it's important to acknowledge and perhaps even 'grieve' for the baby of the gender you're not having, but in the end your DC will be your wonderful child with their wonderful personality regardless of whether their chromosomes spell XX or XY.

It might help to have a look into theories of gender and how much of gender classification/stereotypes/behaviour is learned, influenced & reinforced by society. I seem to recall a chapter in the book "What Every Parent Needs to Know" looking at people's differing reactions to a baby where 50% were told it was a boy, and the other 50% that it was a girl.

LynetteScavo Fri 26-Apr-13 17:08:08

My DD loves mud. She has never shown any interest in anything pink or sparkly. I have inflicted upon her a very pale pink wall in her bedroom. That is the sum of the pinkness in her life.

K8Middleton Fri 26-Apr-13 17:09:19

Your dd might be a ds despite the scan wink

I think some of these posts are a bit desperate to be seen to be right on and I don't really believe most of these posters are outraged as they claim. Gender disappointment is real and inexplicable. Bemusement at having our gender assumption challenged is also normal. Getting all hysterical about how some random woman on the Internet feels is a bit much IMHO.

Op, you will be fine. You will at times not like your child very much - often when they have crayoned their name on to the bathroom wall or when they give their younger sibling a swipe. You will also love them fiercely and discover shared interests and new interests. Their sex is irrelevant to all of that but it is relevant to how others behave. There will be quite a lot of gender bias, sterotyping and maybe even discrimination. Your job as your child's parent is to help her navigate that in such a way as to allow her to develop her own personality, achieve her full potential and become her own person.

You have made a great start by acknowledging your feelings and your fears. I wish you and your daughter every happiness and a wonderful relationship.

scissy Fri 26-Apr-13 17:15:45

OP I know where you're coming from. Before dd was born I was nervous about her being a 'girly girl' but only because I'm not in any way and wouldn't know what to do/felt we wouldn't have much in common. But, she's lovely, I don't buy her pink (the only pink stuff she has is presents) and if she does go through a princess phase I'm sure we'll cope wink

Springforward Fri 26-Apr-13 17:22:41

OP, you might find some reassurance on www.pinkstinks.org.uk, I've just had a little read for the first time because of this thread and it kind of felt like what I've been trying to say to my blessed sisters ever since the 20 week scan.

Interestingly MIL, who is desperate for a DGD (don't get me wrong, she loves DS) turned up the other day with some newborn clothes which were obviously "girl" but definitely not pink. I have a good MIL, bless her....

EeyoreIsh Fri 26-Apr-13 17:23:21

Sorry op, but I'm in the 'that's offensive' camp.

I would love a baby. I don't mind if it's a boy or a girl, it would be a blessing abs being joy (and sleepless nights! ) to my life. Instead, I have fertility problems. my one pregnancy ended in a miscarriage. I'm now facing ivf.

Do you want to swop?

everlong Fri 26-Apr-13 17:28:19

Wtf.

You were being pretty irresponsible getting pregnant if you feel so opposed to girls.

I mean you had a 50/50 chance of having one.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:30:23

You are having trouble having a baby but otherwise you are healthy. My sister has cancer. I am offended by how you are not just feeling happy to not have cancer.

Do you want to swap with her?

See how silly that it?

Acting offended by a stranger's feeling is really daft. Yes of course we should all count out blessings but I refuse to feel guilt for my emotions.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:31:24

everlong, I refer you to my previous posts on the subject of "girls" vs "girly"

IAteTheCake Fri 26-Apr-13 17:34:25

We were convinced dd would be a boy. It took a week after the birth to get to grips with the fact she is a girl. She is now 2 next month and neither of us would wish for anything else. She loves Thomas the tank engine as much as a doll, is full of beans and adventurous. I was never a girly girl growing up and can totally empathise with your feelings. I can tell you at the end of the day you love them so much all the pink stuff pales into insignificance. Now the pink vs blue toys, clothes etc that is another subject....but we just make the decision to expose Dd to everything so she can make up her own mind on what she likes....

everlong Fri 26-Apr-13 17:36:37

You say in your OP you are scared you are going to get a pink loving girl and that you will dislike your daughter.

I stick to my other post.

EeyoreIsh Fri 26-Apr-13 17:37:59

I'm sorry your sister has cancer, I hope she recovers.

And actually hotpie, I do frequently thank God for the blessings I do have. including being otherwise healthy, having a supportive DH etc.

I also hope you come to terms with not having a boy. It must be difficult to get what you want but not be happy with it.

SoupDragon Fri 26-Apr-13 17:38:43

I feel like a terrible person, I know how lucky we are to have a (hopefully) healthy child on the way

The Offended did read this bit didn't they?

DD climbs trees. She did so wearing pink snow boots and a cream, fringed flapper dress. [shrug]

OP, deal with your "disappointment" and by the time your DD arrives all will be fine. What she is like depends on the opportunities you give her smile

alcibiades Fri 26-Apr-13 17:42:02

I wonder if what you're feeling isn't so much any kind of disappointment that you're having a girl, but more a reaction to friends/family suggesting that your daughter won't be anything like you. It's almost as they're telling you that you have to dress her in pink and sparkling stuff, just like they did/would do with their daughters. But she's not theirs, she's yours.

If you don't want pink&sparkly (and I didn't for my daughter) that's your right. Just signal very clearly to your MiL and anyone else that anything pink/sparkly/frilly is not an acceptable gift.

Chocoflump Fri 26-Apr-13 17:42:25

This is terrible- your poor child!! She should be able to like whatever she wants no matter what her sex! So what if she likes pink sparkly things? Just because you don't doesnt mean your child can not. I don't particularly like skylanders, however my son loves them, so I take an interest in them. I certainly dont despise him for having interests i dont share. How can you have nothing in common with your child?? hmm
This is YOUR child- you created her!! Get a grip!

IAteTheCake Fri 26-Apr-13 17:43:10

I can also understand why people are offended re this thread, and as someone who has experienced fertility problems, my experience is that I just had an image in my head, and then things didn't match up. Not that I did not feel grateful or lucky to have Dd. I am very happy to have her. Becoming a mum is very complex emotionally and things need time to settle. Since Dd has grown I do have to say pink vs blue and boys vs girls what they should and shouldn't do is very strong in our society...it is tricky to navigate...I choose to try and give her a balanced experience...so I do think there is more to just saying the op is insensitive...there is a bigger picture

kilmuir Fri 26-Apr-13 17:45:12

she may be girlie she may be a tom boy, whatever she will be YOUR DAUGHTER. grow up. poor thing a disappointment already

Well, there's no guarantees but my DDs are 8 and 3 and they both like pink and princesses as well as climbing trees and Lego.

My ds aged 1 tomorrow, is mostly fund wearing a pink headband and loving the baby born dolly confused

Do you know what, I love them all the same. Always will.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:50:32

Sorry Everlong, I responded a couple of times to clarify earlier. Its not the fact that I am having a girl so much as it is the fact that it has just occurred to me that the girl i have MIGHT be really girly and into princesses and sparkles and that I will not have anything in common with her,just like I don't have anything in common with the grown women I know who are into girly stuff. I am fully aware that it isn't a universal trait of women and was fine until people like my mother in law convinced me I was going to end up with a Katie Price wannabe.

SolomanDaisy Fri 26-Apr-13 17:51:38

I have a toddler. Today they have mostly been wearing my pink framed sunglasses, a bracelet of mine which has sparkly hearts on and frequent applications of 'cream'. We bathed dolly this morning. Said toddler has a penis too (so does dolly).

pooka Fri 26-Apr-13 17:51:58

Dd is my first child.

She never wore headbands or pink frilly stuff as a baby. Very unisex clothing.

She did go through a princess phase from age of about 3 until 5 or 6. Still keen on climbing trees, Lego, all sorts, but with an underlying love of ballet, tutus and pink. We rode it out, and actually I really loved how dotty she looked in her clothes. Was all part of a time in her life.

She's now 9. Doesn't like pink. Not especially girly. Keen on surfing, horse riding, cycling, books, friends and cooking.

She's ace - love her so much. Also have 2 boys now. They re different to her, but also to each other. They're all brill. smile

BrokenBananaTantrum Fri 26-Apr-13 17:52:04

My DD is currently dressed head to toe in pink. She is 6yo. She is also using a power screwdriver to build her new flat pack kitchen with DH.
Your DD will be what she will be.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:52:25

alcibiades
I think you are totally right

ExpatAl Fri 26-Apr-13 17:53:28

So what OP? You have no control over what your child will be like and that's the glorious fascinating thing. And your answer to EyeorIsh was shitty and manipulative.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:54:35

The post from EyeorIsh was shitty and manipulative. I did the same back on purpose to show her that.

BlameItOnTheBogey Fri 26-Apr-13 17:55:03

Hotpie, I have a DD who refuses to wear dresses, insists on a short hair cut, hangs out with the boys at school and would eat mud if I let her, never mind roll around in it.

i equally have a big who wants me to paint his toenails and who wants to talk about the dresses I wear.

I didn't do anything to raise them this way. Just let them develop as they wanted to. Your girl will do the same. She may like princesses and pink. She may like mud. Your job is to support her whichever she chooses and let her express her own personality. This would be just as true if she were a boy as a girl.

Good luck OP. Be assured, that whether she dresses head to toe in pink glitter or not, once she is here you will love her to bits and will wonder what you were worrying about.

BlameItOnTheBogey Fri 26-Apr-13 17:56:10

Equally have *boy. Not a big...

everlong Fri 26-Apr-13 17:56:28

OP she will be your baby, your daughter.

I will bet my house that in 3 years time if your little girl loves things pink and sparkly you won't bat an eyelid. Honestly don't stress this.

I've never had a dd. I would have loved one. Be excited smile

Tingalingle Fri 26-Apr-13 17:58:29

OP, you could always go interestingly batty, give her a unisex name (I suggest Kim or Alex) and refuse to disclose her sex to anyone until s/he's at least 5.

The sell the story to a national paper and buy more Lego with it.

SoupDragon Fri 26-Apr-13 18:01:52

It's an emotional response which you have no control over. It usually makes no sense whatsoever. For example, I was very upset to discover, at a late scan, that DS2 was another boy. When he was born 3 days later, I still fell in love with him right away, I'd dealt with any disappointment and resigned myself to the fact that I would not have a daughter (he was ment to me my last)

Fast forward 5 years and I discover at the 20 week scan that my third child was a girl. I was upset as my Boy Gang would be destroyed! Needless to say, I love her dearly and indulge her "unicorn vomit" tendencies with good grace. She still climbs trees, builds with Lego and does muddy stuff.

No logic at all to how I felt and it was all irrelevant in the end. At no point did I forget that I was lucky to have children at all.

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 18:03:41

No OP, the post from Eyeoreish was not manipulative or shitty. She even back came on and wished your sister well.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:05:30

Tingalingle, love it. ;-)

And to the crazies - I am joking

DoingTheSwanThing Fri 26-Apr-13 18:06:46

Well, my DD doesn't know what mud is yet, but DS (4) hates the stuff. Hates anything involving getting dirty. Frightened of climbing unless both hands are held.
His favourite colour is pink, he's the only one to notice if I have new shoes or change my hair, and he wants to be a hairdresser <proud>
He's my coffee & cake buddy though, so I can wait to climb trees smile

If your biggest worry is having a girl who likes sparkly pink things then you're in for a big shock, OP.

Just be happy and love her for who she is!!

We are all unique and this is something to be celebrated. Just coz my DD likes Rapunzel doesn't mean it's going to shape her character...her dad loves spending time with her and surprisingly this does not involve pink or dolls.

Just relax.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:10:41

Really Sleepyfergus?

I think she pulled the "be grateful for what you have, I have it much worse than you" card. I did exactly the same to make the point that it was a crappy thing to do.

I said I was upset about having a baby girl, she said she couldn't have a baby and asked if I would care to swap with her.

She said she was upset about not having a baby, I said my sister was very ill and asked if she would care to swap with her.

Whats the difference?

SoupDragon Fri 26-Apr-13 18:12:05

One plus of my girl is that she likes to do my hair as a bedtime avoidance technique. It's lovely having someone brush and style your hair, even if it does often involve pompoms and plastic monkeys. The boys never did this.

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 18:12:17

I assume you're classing me as one if the crazies....

But read your OP back. You actually say you despise the kind of little girls who play at dressing up as princesses. Really??? Seriously??? So you randomly dislike girls who are play acting and having innocent fun. How very, very sad.

What if you had a boy and he liked dressing up as a princess? It happens. A lot, if watching some of my DDs male counterparts playing at nursery is a reasonable sample.

And you think we're crazy! Your poor daughter. I actually hope for her sake she doesn't want to play with dolls or wear pink etc. At least then you might actually like her.

I have three girls and one boy. They all love lego, mud and tree climbing. Don't make a big deal of it.

BlameItOnTheBogey Fri 26-Apr-13 18:22:17

Hotpie can I try and answer the question about what Eyeorish did, without wishing to speak for her? She had an emotional reaction to your OP. In the same way that you are having an emotional reaction to finding out you are having a girl. in both cases, it may not seem logic or right to others but these are real emotions you are both experiencing. I struggled to get pregnant and can empathize with what she said because of the real pain I felt waiting years to get pregnant.

I can empathize less with your reaction to your news but I can see that it is a heart felt reaction and I don't judge you for it at all (see my post upthread).

We all react emotionally at times. Different things trigger different people. It doesn't make any of us bad people.

SantanaLopez Fri 26-Apr-13 18:22:51

There's nothing wrong with feeling a bit guilty. But not once have you moved away from your frankly bizarre notion that you hate pink and sparkles.

SantanaLopez Fri 26-Apr-13 18:23:08

Not guilty; disappointed.

ExpatAl Fri 26-Apr-13 18:23:50

No Blame, the OP is not having an emotional reaction to having a girl. The OP is having a happy and relaxed self indulgent hissy fit.

beth27123 Fri 26-Apr-13 18:24:26

I think this is a very touchy subject as are quite a few on the board, but i also think we all have a reason we might not bond with our child.
Im 7 weeks pregnant (ish) and i have the same fears as you, but as other mothers to be too. Will I love my child if he comes out with a ginger afro (yes OH asked this)? Will i love him if he is a she? Will I even be a good mother to a child? Will I still love my step children?
I admit you didn't word things great but I can see your point. Hope nobody thinks Im trying to create friction here.

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 18:25:27

ExpatAl grin

YoniYoniNameLeft Fri 26-Apr-13 18:28:03

This thread has bugged me! I have two DDs.

Neither are girly girls or "Tom boys" really, they're just...well, children, i suppose. As I said up thread, they both like climbing and mud, building blocks, trains, just as I used to when I was little.

You don't have to dress a baby girl in pink - there's yellow, green, purple, brown, red. I used to put mine in red and, SIOB, blue quite often. Although they did get mistaken for boys quite often by people with no imagination. Today toddler DD2 is wearing blue jeggings with a blue and cream striped sweater with a mouse on it.

They also wear pink, I like pink. In fact I'm wearing a pink cardigan today.

Ooh, I must be such a girl. <<flicks hair>>

Pudgy2011 Fri 26-Apr-13 18:30:55

Starting out reading this thread, I was ready to blast through with a scoff and a "don't worry, your DD doesn't have to be a pink sparkly nightmare" and continue on with an eye roll.

But reading through I have kind of want to jump to OP's defence here, especially in light of the "just be grateful you're having a baby, you should always remember there are people worse off who can't concieve" etc.
Those comments do nothing to address the OP's concerns and I don't think her rebuttal to Eyeore about her sister were unfair. They were putting the comments into context. We don't always go through life thinking about how others might have it worse than us. It's the human condition, we're born to be selfish and that's no bad thing.

I thought this forum was a place to voice concerns and get some support to deconstruct the emotions (of which pregnant women have plenty, most not always rational!), not a place to voice concerns and then have 100 people jump down your throat about how you should just be damn grateful you're having a healthy baby.

For what it's worth, I always wonder if finding out the sex of the baby in advance can sometimes lead to these terrifying feelings of preferred gender, whereas if you didn't know and baby popped out, you'd be so ecstatic to have your child here that you won't care if it's a boy or a girl?

OP, I was a tomboy, played with dolls but was never a fairy princess type kid. As an adult, I'm now a very healthy mixture of badass tomboy/feminine lady.

Your DD will find her own way to be herself, just as you have. Her young, possibly "girly" years are such a small part of her life. You will love her more than life itself, regardless of the colours she likes.

Quite Yoni. Your girls sound lovely and like they have a good time exploring everything thanks

Reiltin Fri 26-Apr-13 18:34:12

My wife could have written that! Our first kid will be a girl. As i said to her, Not all girls are girlie. Neither of us were particularly. She'll be your kid, raised in your home - you've got both nature & nurture on your side. We've found it not super-easy to find baby clothes that aren't pink, but they do exist. And they're lovely :-)

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:35:37

beth27123, not at all thinking you are out to create friction, I think you are right, its the fear of not being able to like my child if we are too different from each other. Its in the same thing as the fact that I am a scientist, so how will I bond with a child who is more arty or maybe not academic at all? Thanks for your understanding.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:37:11

thanks Pudgy

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Fri 26-Apr-13 18:37:18

I was feeling sorry for the OP until this post:

"I am sorry if people are offended that I do not like girly girls and have never got on with them. I have plenty of women friends. I LIKE plenty of women, I just don't like GIRLY. There is a big difference and maybe the people who don't see that are being a bit sexist."

That is so narrow minded and judgemental. You really wouldn't choose to be friends with someone because they like getting their hair and nails done and wear pink? Bizarre. I hope your DD turns your world on its head and challenges some of these assumptions because it sounds like you're the sexist one here.

That's a nice post Reiltin - I hope you both have a lovely time preparing for your new baby and love her to the moon and back when she's here.
And the same to HotPie smile

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Fri 26-Apr-13 18:39:56

"Its in the same thing as the fact that I am a scientist, so how will I bond with a child who is more arty or maybe not academic at all?"

Even more bizarre. Do you only have scientist friends then? Do you find it relate to anyone else who isn't exactly like you are? Think you need to broaden your horizons a little, OP!

SantanaLopez Fri 26-Apr-13 18:42:02

how will I bond with a child who is... maybe not academic at all

shock

Seriously?

Maybe you should have got a dog instead of getting pregnant.

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 18:47:18

A boy dog obviously. Heaven forbid you got a <whispers> bitch.

AdoraBell Fri 26-Apr-13 18:49:05

My DDs still love running around and getting messy/muddy, only one of them does it with nail polish on and the other with blue streaks in her hair. They are 11. One has never liked pink and both have been adverse to Barbie for as long as I can rememeber. They loved playing with toy cars, toy frams, Lego type bricks, train sets and were very hmm when their male cousin told them not to play with his Hot-Wheels because "it's for boys", so we bought them their own Hot-Wheels.

You don't have to do cute and sugar pink just because other parents do it.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:56:32

Sleepyfergus have you nothing better to do than troll? You are obviously not trying to be helpful, just nasty, so please go and be nasty to someone else.

Lopez, YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad, have you never been scared of having a child so different from you that you just can't connect with them? That you just won't have anything to talk with them about? Surely you have met people that you just can't get beyond a ten minute conversation with? People you just can't find any common ground with? Surely I can't be the only person in the world who doesn't find absolutely everyone else fascinating?

NumberTwoDue Fri 26-Apr-13 18:57:45

Don't like vacant girly girls, but vapid enough to take what your mates are saying as gospel? Hmmmmmm

Sleepyfergus Fri 26-Apr-13 19:00:19

Fair enough, my last post was uncalled for. So I retract that. But my other posts haven't been, I've either been posting my point of view on the subject and directing addressing comments YOU have made, or agreeing with others.

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Fri 26-Apr-13 19:01:34

No, I can talk to anyone on some level, I don't have to find them fascinating to have a conversation. I also have friends from every walk of life. You do sound very limited, OP. Do you have any potential 'mum' friends? Because I have a feeling that you might be a bit lonely when you discover there aren't as many academics or scientists among them as you like!

With a child, well, they grow up in your house, you share experiences, you explore the world together - you will find something to talk about, trust me. You're overthinking this.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 19:02:53

NumberTwoDue

Fair comment, though in my defense, they weren't exactly my friends, they were Mother in law, and various "family friends" rather than actual mates. But you are right, getting myself in state because of their opinions rather than trusting my own experience is daft. I suppose its because they have kids, so I assume they know lots more about it than me, but thats no excuse.

SantanaLopez Fri 26-Apr-13 19:04:22

But the child won't come out making conversation! They won't be making academic or scientific comments for years yet. And of course you can still be academic and wear pink and tan.

I was am scared that I wouldn't know how to look after mine and that I wouldn't instantly love her, but she is not like any other person I've ever met in this world. It's so so different.

YoniYoniNameLeft Fri 26-Apr-13 19:07:07

"have you never been scared of having a child so different from you that you just can't connect with them?"

I'm sure a lot of people have had these fears at some point but I work in school and all children are different. Your child will be different from you, of course she will but you will love her with all your heart because she will be the most beautiful thing you have ever clapped your eyes on from the moment she is born, even if she had a green head and warts.

NumberTwoDue Fri 26-Apr-13 19:08:16

HotPie, we're all making it up as we go along, regardless of how many children we have/contact we've had with kids, because they're all little unique people with different needs and thoughts and ideas. Your daughter will think you are the best thing ever and you will feel the same about her, and I say this as someone who assumed her bump was a boy and was handed a beautiful girl.

YouDontWinFriendsWithSalad Fri 26-Apr-13 19:09:55

Beautifully put, NumberTwoDue.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 19:10:48

Salad

I can have a coversation at some level with anyone, even if its just small talk, but I was hoping for a bit more than that with my child. A conversation with someone you have nothing in common with is easy, I agree. A connection is a bit harder.

I have some frends who are already mums if thats what you mean by mum friends, I wasn't really planning on trying to make any new friends just on the basis that that they were mums too though. Why would I want to do that? Is it necessary?

But you're right, I was overthinking, much calmer now.

YoniYoniNameLeft Fri 26-Apr-13 19:14:30

Well, you might want to mix with people that have children the same age as your DD, for her to make friends, but I guess that it's not that necessary. She'll make her own friends by herself once she's at nursery or school.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 19:21:55

Yoni,

Well my partner is the one thats going to be staying at home with her, so maybe something more for him to think about.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 19:22:44

And thanks Yoni for your support

Sariska Fri 26-Apr-13 19:30:57

Goodness OP, do you really not have any friends who aren't scientists? Can you not, for example, imagine having an interesting conversation with someone who is, say, a history teacher or having a laugh with, for example, a secretary?

And why do you assume that women who care about spray tans and nails are also scared of mice and don't know the first thing about DIY?

I'm sure most of us on this thread understand what it is to wonder about what your unborn child (particularly your first) will be like. Many will also have had gender preferences to some degree or other - but to dismiss an entire gender (your own!!) on the basis of some vapid, marketing-induced stereotype, really? Really?

Anyway, I hope this thread has reassured you that boys and girls do not always conform to the stereotypes you are so afraid of. I suppose only time and personal experience will convince you that will love your own child regardless of whether they share your personal interests, values and, dare I say it, prejudices.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 19:50:27

I don't think I ever said I no non-scientist friends. I said that I was one and that I might find it harder to connect with someone who was more into arty stuff as it is not an area I am passionate about or can really talk with someone about. But yes, I do find that I get on better with people who are academically minded.

Do I assume people with spray tans don't know about DIY? You're right it is a generalisation, but also one backed up by meeting plenty of women with spray tans. I fully appreciate its a generalisation though and that there are bound to be plenty of exceptions. Just like I once met a really charming lovely guy who was also a member of the BNP. Difficult to get my head around that one but it did happen.

And I was very clear I wasn't dismissing an entire gender. I am sure I have said lots of times that I have plenty of females friends ( more than half non-scientists by the way) and that prior to allowing silly conversations to persuade me otherwise, I was not concerned that having a girl would automatically mean she would be a girly girl I had nothing in common with.

I was also never concerned I wouldn't love my child, just that I wouldn't like her or have anything in common with her.

But you are right, I am sure I will find that my fears are foundless.

Signet2012 Fri 26-Apr-13 19:53:28

My 6 year old cousin likes moxi dolls pink stuff dresses and high heels. He saves up his pocket money for dolls and such like and I'm sure he would love to be a princess.

Just to put another spin on it grin

OP - seriously? You though that having a baby meant producing a mini-you? hmm You're expecting years of fascinating conversation and you got all het up about this?
I really don't know what to say.

Oh no, hang on I do. It will of course be shitty and manipulative but tbh I think you need to hear a bit more of that in the hope that it might sink in.

I have two friends who will never have fascinating conversation with their daughters because their daughters died in the womb. They will never know who they would have been. You say you know how lucky you are. You don't. You have no idea until a tragedy like that touches your life. i don't know how lucky I am either. But what I do know is that I have cherished and admired my daughter's unique personalities from the moment they first looked in to my eyes and if you don't get a grip on yourself you're going to miss that. you're going to look past your daughter for the person you thought you wanted and you will do terrible harm to both of you. So just stop.

If anybody is reading this who is ttc and is nodding away with the OP. Just remember it's a new life you're trying to bring in to the world. A new person. Not a piece of clay or a cut and paste document. You don't know what you'll get and if you can't deal with that you need to not do it.

piprabbit Fri 26-Apr-13 20:02:49

HotPie, you will find yourself on a very steep learning curve to keep up with your child's interests, whatever they may be.
For example, I have had to acquire a sound knowledge of every engine and truck in Thomas the Tank Engine, the names and behaviours of a variety of dinosaurs, the words to "Monkey Puzzle", Brownie badges, ORT reading characters and the life histories of every character in In the Night Garden.

They are not things I am interested in, I do not naturally have these things in common with my DCs. They are, however, things my DCs have been passionate about. Because it is important to them, I take an interest. And I find it fascinating watching their communication skills, language skills and their ability to argue, explain and negotiate mature and develop through exploring subjects they are interested in.
Unfortunately, sometimes I just start to enjoy the subject, only to find they have moved on to the next thing sad.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 20:18:48

You're right, that was shitty and manipulative

But you are also right about me misssing out on the person she is because I am focusing on the person I want her to be and I will do my very best to do as you suggest on that.

I don't really connect with most of my family and the people I grew up with. I love them, they are my family, but we have nothing in common, and not much to talk about. I had to move away to find people who "got me". I am/was scared it will be the same with my daughter, and knowing she was a girl sort of made me think of her as a person, past babyhood rather than simply "the baby" and all of the brothers girlfriends, partners sisters and friends wives I have tried and failed to find common ground with over the years.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 20:20:23

Sory Pip, hopefully you realised that wasn't a reply to you

alcibiades Fri 26-Apr-13 20:23:37

HotPie - Thinking about this a bit more - there have been plenty of threads on how a pregnancy these days seems to be a very public matter, where you get all and sundry telling you that you should/shouldn't be doing/eating/thinking/planning this, that and the other. It can be very daunting for first-timers (and even for second-timers if they're surrounded by bossy, opinionated people).

It kind of throws you off-balance, makes you doubt yourself, puts concerns in your mind that wouldn't have otherwise occurred to you. It's as though they've taken a little bit of your relationship with your daughter away from you even before she's born.

You've had a bit of a bashing here, which is a pity in some ways, but I hope you've got enough from the responses to be reassured that your daughter is no more likely to be a "sparkly-girl" than you are, or, indeed, than most MNers are. (Most of the pink/sparkly/frilly people, I would guess, are on that other forum.)

But just to reiterate: Don't let your MiL indulge herself by buying loads of pink&frilly stuff. All the initial choices are for you and your DH to decide.

Eventually, your daughter will develop her own mind about those sorts of things. But, by then, you'll have shown her the moon and the stars, and how plants grow, and watched worms and bugs, and looked at pond water under the microscope. She might well choose to do all that while wearing a frilly dress and pink wellies, though, but by then that'll be her choice.

one of my nephews loves peppa pig... and pink things! despise a child like him too would you? angry

geez... just be bloody happy you can get pregnant!

Ah ok. Well some people will be superficially closer to family than others but at bedrock the ties that bind are maybe stronger than you know. My sister and I have very different interests but when backs are against the wall etc we're from the same tribe and it's unbreakable. My oldest daughter and my husband were once in WHSmith and both paused by the same display of coloured pens in a big fan. Dh realised she was seeing exactly the same pattern as he did and liking it just as he does (stationery geeks!). My middle daughter and I will cry in exactly the same places watching films. My youngest daughter walks around the house with a book in her hand and tries to read whilst getting dressed - just like me. This is not because they are mini versions of us. Their personalities are very different from us and from each other. But they belong to our tribe and we can see that kinship in them all the time. In their behaviour and in their eyes. Just like they see themselves in us. Knowing you belong together is about much more than interests and DIY ability grin. So what I'm saying is marvel in your daughter's personality and in both the similarities and differences you see between you because they won't actually pull you apart. It's a way of being better together.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 20:40:05

Thanks Alci, you are right of course. I have let myself get stressed out because of other peoples involvement, I was fine with it till I announced it and got all of the comments back.

InLoveWithDavid, helpful, really helpful. Thanks so much, I really appreciate your thoughts on the matter, I now feel suitably ashamed and wll buck my ideas up immediately. I had never thought to be grateful about my pregnancy! What an incredibly original thought and so eloquently expressed too. I am in awe.

Tingalingle Fri 26-Apr-13 20:48:57

Oh lord, OP, do drop the sarcasm.

Honestly (and I hesitate to say this to a pregnant woman) you are going to need a thicker skin and a sense of humour.

I could add, as I'm sure other posters are itching to, that even a conversation with your child isn't a given, let alone the choice of topic. Of of mine is autistic, which has been something of an eye-opener. As it happens, he is verbal, but not all of his classmates are.

And then there's the teenage years when you have no idea what they're talking about anyway...

None of this is meant to be harsh. I didn't judge you on your first post. But you do rather keep on digging!

bicyclebuiltforfour Fri 26-Apr-13 20:50:11

In the OP's defence, I think she's saying that she's concerned/fed up about the expectations put on girls and mums' of girls, and I can see her point: girls are everywhere portrayed as pink and sparkly (just look at the clothing sections in most stores). She clearly doesn't like that idea and was looking for reassurance that it's possible to buck that trend. Nowhere did she suggest that she wasn't grateful or didn't want the baby.

OP - I think this is a totally reasonable attitude but I hope that once your daughter is here you'll see how you were worrying over nothing. Nobody is going to force you to dress your daughter in any particular way (just smile nicely when the MIL presents you with pink things and forget to use them...) and by the time she's old enough to decide for herself, you won't mind anyway.

FWIW I really didn't want a girl when I was pg with #1 (who turned out to be a girl!) since I know how horrendous other teenage girls can be. Doesn't mean that I didn't love her with either fibre of my being, including when she was on unknown gender: it was just something I needed to work through.

Tingalingle Fri 26-Apr-13 20:50:52

Piprabbit, things I've recently had to express a pretend interest in include ukelele solos, the junior branch of the LibDems, and Hornby point motors...

RhondaJean Fri 26-Apr-13 20:59:39

Hotpie

I'm going to ignore all the bitching going on.

I totally get you. Both times I honestly can say I was devastated when I found out I was having a girl. I just had no idea how to deal with it and having had a terrible time growing up I wanted sons because I wanted things to be different for my children, I didn't want them to go through what I did.

But yknow what, my girls are 8 and 13 now, and yes we have had sparkly and Barbie and you name it, but they're actually good fun, intelligent, love making things, think in quite a "masculine" way. Because I forgot that while they are very much their own people and might like a bit of sparkle I could fill them with values and teach them that there is more to life than high heels and that as women they should not accept any limits any more than if they had been born the sons I expected.

I can't imagine having two more intelligent, interesting people as my children to be honest. But if you told me before I had children I would have two daughters, I would have been terrified.

RhondaJean Fri 26-Apr-13 21:01:20

Making things - I meant Lego/meccano/models, not crafts although they love them too.

amessagetoyouYoni Fri 26-Apr-13 21:04:50

You cant stereotype. Pointless. Children are little people, with diverse tastes.

My DD loves pink, loves dressing up, loves anything 'pretty'....but she is also a sturdy, active little thing - she loves her scooter, rough-and-tumble play, swimming, being in the garden digging for worms.

Let your child become who she is. You're going to love the bones of her.

See, I can understand a woman being slightly disappointed with not having a girl (her own sex/gender) but find it harder to understand reservations about having a girl and not having a boy. Seems a slight betrayal of your own sex and identity to me !
My own mother was particularly delighted to finally have a boy, though she's tried to be a little subtle about it. I don't get it personally !
Hopefully things are moving on in our own generation with regard to gender preferences.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 21:07:36

Thanks Rhonda,

Tinga I thought the sarcasm WAS having a sense of humour actually. Sorry, different sense of humour. Is sarcasm a bit of a no-no here? Suppose I will have to pick up the norms here that along with the whole DD, DH, DS and other random acronym stuff if I decide to pop back at all.
I have a reasonably thick skin, but I have a very short fuse for people who don't listen and repeat the same old stuff. That fuse has been lit quite a few times today.

cyclingtreadworn Fri 26-Apr-13 21:07:45

Sorry, OP, your post disgusts me, from the offensive title to the small minded content. I hope nobody who is going through the hell of having to terminate a pregnancy after their 20 week scan saw it. That's not manipulative by the way, it's hitting you with some hard home truths that you need to hear, as you sound completely self centred and entitled. You have a healthy baby girl.

Stop navel gazing and start acting like a mother who is getting ready to welcome her beautiful baby into the world, regardless of whether she likes pink or not. Perhaps you should have thought about some of this before you decided to get pregnant.

MrsWolowitz Fri 26-Apr-13 21:09:34

What a silly OP.

I have 3 girls. Two are very Tom- boyish and think they are pirates and one is very girly and into pink sparkly things and often dresses up as a fairy complete with tutu. Do I love them more or less depending on how feminine they are? No of course not.

If they want to play with pirate ships and trains and climb trees and splash in the mud that's great. If they don't want to that's fair enough too.

Just because I am outdoorsy and have certain likes and dislikes doesn't mean I need to show- horn my kids into conforming to my expectations of them.

I hope your DD will make you less sexist and judgemental towards women.

iliketea Fri 26-Apr-13 21:10:09

In case no-one has said it, one of the positive things about girls is that it's harder for them to get wee in your eye when you change their nappy (all the way up their back and in their hair without you noticing on the changing mat, but normally not in your eyes! smile).

I tried and tried to stop the whole "pink thing" from happening, but 3.5.yo dd has decide she likes pink and glitter and to wear dresses. It doesn't change the fact that she still does all the stuff children like to do irrespective of their gender. And her wonderful, hilarious, kind nature didn't change just because she has decided that pink is her favourite colour.

everlong Fri 26-Apr-13 21:10:35

Hard hitting words cycling but I agree with them totally.

MisForMumNotMaid Fri 26-Apr-13 21:11:11

I'm an engineer. I don't really do girly. I don't get hours preening. I don't get this, or any years fashion. I do all the DIY etc at home. I have 2 DS and when I found out no.3 was to be a girl I was comcerned about the dynamic. DD is a girly girl. She chooses pink with pink and a bit of pink to round it off. She's two. She loves to sit and have her hair brushed, she loves having her nails trimmed, she loves having her hair blow dried. I hated all of these from being a young child. My mum teases that it must be nature because theres no way I could have nurtured such a pink princess.

I love her to bits. All the early worries of how the dynamic could work are dim and distant past. The DS's love her and so does her dad. In amoungst all the pink princess, singing and dancing to Angelina Balerina she likes jumping in muddy puddles, building with brio, knocking down her brothers lego. She will be brought up, as her brothers are, to be able to hold a saw, hammer straight, fix a shelf, wire a plug etc.

She wont convert me to pink, I moderate the amount she has, but even at such a tender age her prefference is very strong. So within reason I wont turn her into mini me i will love and educate/ equip her to have as many opportunities for her life as possible. Thats the best any of us can hope for isn't it?

Once they're born there's less time to worry about these things and somehow I'm sure you'll muddle through like the rest of us.

GrumpyKat Fri 26-Apr-13 21:13:34

We went to the pub for a slap up dinner tonight, my dd is three and a half and announced to the couple sat at the next table
"I don't like princesses, I like PENGUINS"
hth.

ExpatAl Fri 26-Apr-13 21:15:08

I'm very disappointed to hear other women use the word 'girly'
So much for sisterhood.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 21:15:29

Thanks MisForMum,

Thats was very helpful and I am sure you are right.

What you get first of all is a baby. Apart from the anatomical differences, baby boys and girls are similar. Obviously they are all individuals, some are quicker to smile or sleep better, but the differences between babies has nothing to do with being a boy or a girl. During the first year (and much longer probably) you can dress the baby however you like. DD had plenty of "boy's" rompers because the dinosaurs or puppies on them were really cute. By the end of that first year you will be smitten, truly head-over-heels in love with your baby. That means that if your DD asks for a princess dress or a baby and buggy you will be delighted that you have the opportunity to make her happy.

All children go through phases of playing with things that you might find tedious. My DD will change her doll's nappies over and over, and I find it dull. However my mother says that my DB's interest in playing with his cars was exceptionally dull too. Boys/girls, whatever their interests, don't have the monopoly in dull activities.

Not all girls have a pink, princess phase. Much of that will depend on what the girl is exposed to. Our house isn't full of pink stuff and, unlike friends of ours, I don't call her "my princess". DD has recently started to say "I'm a queen" grin, but there is no more to it than that at the moment.

Also, given both her genes and environment, there is no reason to think you will have a particularly girly DD. My DM isn't very "girly", nor am I, and I imagine as an adult my DD won't be either as she doesn't have a girly influence at home.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 21:43:04

Thanks Breathes

Tingalingle Fri 26-Apr-13 21:43:35

'a very short fuse for people who don't listen and repeat the same old stuff'

oh dear.

<sits on hands>
<<fails>>

How's your DH with people who endlessly repeat things without listening? Toddlers, just to pick a random example?

LittleMonster100 Fri 26-Apr-13 21:46:17

You could have got a boy who was into dolls and crafts and couldn't give two hoots about climbing trees.

My dd 17 months love teddies, mega bloks, kicking a ball, song time, painting, the playground....exactly what I imagine a 17 month old boy would like. The sex of a child does not determine its hobbies, interests or personality.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 21:47:51

Ha ha,

I see what you mean. Actually I am fine with my nephew. He is 5. Maybe I should have said a short fuse with people who are old enough to know better. Though I was also fine with my granny when she had dementia.

I am also ok with small children peeing in their pants, less so with adults ;-), though again, granny had her moments.

And DH, does that mean Darling Hostage perhaps?

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 21:49:33

Yes, I know Little monster, Panic is past but thanks

LittleMonster100 Fri 26-Apr-13 21:53:29

Also what the hell is wrong with pink a glitter? I liked dolls as a kid, I also loved to read and as I grew up enjoyed rock and punk music....as a grown woman I enjoy violent action films and horrors and boxing as much as I enjoy clothes and makeup.

I have a degree am a homeowner, a full time career and I enjoy the colour pink.....really annoys me when people say they tried to avoid theirs girls liking pink and dolls. Let your kids decide what to be interested in....being a "tomboy" isn't something to be particularly proud of, it's not an achievement in any way, same way liking dolls isn't either.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 22:00:50

Little monster

As an interest among many, nothing at all wrong with anything. I used "Pink loving" as shorthand for obsessively, outrageously, exclusively into girly pinky prettiness. And, as i said in one of my many replies in this thread, I have realised that I am scared of having nothing in common with my daughter. The pink girly thing is just one in a long line of things I could have hit on.

For this I am now eternally damned on mumsnet but I am sure I will get over it ;-).

Glitter gets everywhere. Allow it into your home and you will still be finding it years after your DC has left home. It makes its way onto your work clothes and embarrasses you in meetings.

HotPie Fri 26-Apr-13 22:03:12

breathes,

A bit like pine needles and pet hair then. Excellent

my 4yo dd LOVES lego, climbing trees and getting muddy, she also loves her dolls and princess dresses she's a child, not defined by gender stereo types and an extremely happy one wearing her brothers hoody a tutu and wellies grin

HeffalumpTheFlump Fri 26-Apr-13 22:32:35

A while back I started to think that I really wanted a girl and immediately felt pretty guilt about having a preference at all. I tried to think about why I felt that way and came to the conclusion that it was because when I pictured what I thought a boy would be like I thought he would be like my brother (as he was the only little boy I had known that well). I had a horrible relationship with my brother, he was very violent and could be really nasty. When I realised that my brain had made that assumption and the reality of the matter was my child, boy or girl would be their own person, and hopefully I could teach them not to be violent/ nasty, my objection to having a boy disappeared. I feel that you have also unintentionally made the assumption that your child will be a certain way because of their gender when the reality is you have no idea who your child will be and what they will like. I think the main thing is not to make those assumptions and let your little one decide!

oh and my small girl rarely wears pink or frills she's 4mo and has gorgeous stuff from m&s in blue red green and purple stripes/spots etc.

HeffalumpTheFlump Fri 26-Apr-13 23:10:38

I meant to add: the things your little girl will be discovering, she will be discovering with you by her side, so you will constantly be developing new things in common. Hope you can put these worries to rest now and become exited about getting to know your daughter.

Kelly1814 Sat 27-Apr-13 08:04:53

Confession time: I'm ( almost) 37, and consider myself a girly or feminine woman. I LOVE pink, fucsia not baby, and wear it frequently (no proncesss dressers but some pink blazers, shoes, bags) to work. It makes me feel happy, creative and not like a corporate drone dressed all in black.

Brace yourself: I also love a spray tan, had one two days ago.makes me look and feel ten times better. No interest in seeing acres of white pasty flesh when I'm in a bikini.

I have a very successful career, run the Middle East and North Africa division of a well respected successful global firm.

So it's quite possible your lovely daughter will be girly yet cerebral, intelligent and high achieving. A spray tan and enjoyment of the colour pink has not turned me into Katie price. (And whilst you and I may not like her life choices or wedding dress style, her business sense is a force to be reckoned with. I'm sure she's much much better off financially than I will ever be!)

I must say I have no interest in DIY and usually pay someone to do this for me smile

Good luck and I'm sure you will have a gorgeous daughter and a great relationship.

Excited85 Sat 27-Apr-13 09:32:44

Hotpie, most other threads on this forum are women panicking something is going wrong in pregnancy and without exception I imagine all their primary concern is that their baby arrives safely and in good health. So perhaps contrasting with your post you can see why you got these responses.
I get that you have concerns, we all have them about different things but your primary concern should be that the baby arrives safe, not if it wants to put on pink dress - everything else is irrelevant at this point.
FWIW I couldn't care less what sex mine is, because I'm having a BABY and that to me is the most amazing thing in the world. I only hope you can see past the trivial and start to feel the same x

TBF Excited there are quite a number of threads on MN about more trivial things. I agree with others that it's perfectly fair enough to start one about your feelings about your unborn child's gender/ sex (I don't quite understand the differences ?!) Many of us have had a range of different feelings when we've found out which we're having. I think it's a good thing to have somewhere to explore those a little, and un-pack where they might come from. Then challenge them in the hope of building better bonds when the baby arrives.
But equally it's understandable, especially for those ttc, that such thoughts will seem a luxury.

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Sat 27-Apr-13 09:56:10

OP I had a similar reaction when I found out DS1 was on his way..

I knew I was having a girl.. I had planned the things we would do together.

I will be honest and tell you that I cried for 3 days.

However, for me that was the joy of finding out at 20 weeks.
By the time DS1 arrived he had a name and I was totally ready to have a little boy..
I now have 2 and they are brilliant. but certainly not what I had expected when I thought about being a parent.

Excited85 Sat 27-Apr-13 10:11:35

Sorry juggling, wasn't meaning that the OP shouldn't be posting her concerns, more just that you can understand why some people have reacted negatively when they themselves may have concerns relating to the health of their baby.. Nobodies concerns are more or less valid than the poster next to them, but was just trying to say that in the scheme of things there are worse things that could happen. at least that's my approach to any little thought/worry/concern that I have, just focussing on 'as long as it's healthy' everything else I can worry about later!

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Sat 27-Apr-13 10:55:49

This inevitable "princess phase" is a bit of a fake modern construct isn't it? I never had one. None of my friends did. My sisters, nope. My DD hasn't either.

And it isn't because she is more like a boy, she isn't a 'tomboy', she's a girl who has her own interests. An individual.

HotPie Sat 27-Apr-13 10:58:53

I came here to get some support from people who might have been through the same set of feelings as me. If people think it is trivial, I get that. If people think my feelings are weird or wrong, I get that too. But why didn't they just ignore the post? Why attack me? Why insist on doing the "just be grateful, I would love a child" stuff over and over and over again? Do single or widowed people say "just be grateful you have a partner" every time you complain about your husband? Is that helpful? Ever?

I did get some really nice responses tht helped me put this in perspectve and realise I was being silly. So thanks to those people for that. I also got a load of bitchy, bullying, unhelpful comments that reminded me of why I avoided that big group of gossipy girls in the playground when I was a child and just stuck with catching insects with the geeky kids (both male and female before you start, though mostly male).

Its been an eyeopener, and a reminder of why I choose my friends carefully (not just scientists, I promise).

Right, I'm off to do some work. I've wasted too much time on this crap.

Go well, HotPie !
All the best to you and yours x

Really agree with Orange too - it's a fake modern construct and easy enough to by-pass by and large smile No need to define yourself or your DD by it at any rate

ExpatAl Sat 27-Apr-13 11:50:27

You got bitchy comments because of your tone, Hotpie, not because of the subject content. There are plenty of threads about gender disappointment that haven't had people jumping down their throats.

ExpatAl Sat 27-Apr-13 11:51:00

I meant subject matter.

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Sat 27-Apr-13 11:52:04

Yes OP, your thread was bound to get people's backs up because anyone who happens to have a DD who is wearing a princess dress today... you told them that you despise her!

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Sat 27-Apr-13 11:56:58

A lot of people just read the first post. So they'll just be replying to that.

brettgirl2 Sat 27-Apr-13 12:01:28

I dont think its about gender at all. Some little boys like wearing pink frilly dresses.

DD1 loves a pink frilly number but Sat next to her on ben10 at Drayton Manor quaking she doesn't half have guts.

Accepting people for who they are and differences is part of life. Unfortunately op I think you have come across some pretty small minded people in your life.

MrsWolowitz Sat 27-Apr-13 12:01:52

You can't seriously be comparing getting a baby girl and making a load if ignorant judgements about her already with people having martial woes?

Seriously? hmm

I actually feel a bit sorry for your DD.

Luciferswench Sat 27-Apr-13 12:07:04

My DD is a pink sparkly dress wearing tree climbing footballer.
She likes her nails painted she also likes making mud pies in the garden.
She does have 2 older brothers though.

tethersend Sat 27-Apr-13 12:09:54

I felt this way when I found out the sex of my first baby. It was a girl. Words cannot describe how much I wanted a boy; I was devastated. It's not something you can admit to in many circles; hardly any in fact. It's still a taboo subject for many- I have watched the general opinion on MN become more understanding over the years, but the topic is still very divisive.

I now know I was suffering from ante-natal depression. All my fears and anxieties about having a child were projected onto the gender of the baby. I hated, hated women who were pregnant with boys as I so desperately wanted one. I didn't like girls and felt that my life was ruined. I thought that I would never accept it.

I had counselling with the ante-natal counsellor attached to the hospital- think about speaking to your midwife about this. Interestingly, my counsellor said that she had seen lots of couples, particularly mothers who had experienced gender disappointment after years of infertility, miscarriages and IVF. In a way, she said that they had had more time to construct an image of 'their child' in their head, and had naturally ascribed it a gender. Most commonly, the imagined child was a girl and they were pregnant with twin boys. I was green with envy at the thought of them having boys. I felt like a failure who had spoiled my life.

I also had to face up to a lot of issues of my own- including my own relationship with my mother and issues I had with my own gender. I felt as you do about princess dresses and 'girly' things; one of the reasons I hated them was because I didn't want a girl, and I had to challenge my own perceptions of gender and its signifiers. It's not as simple as telling yourself that girls climb trees too. It was my biggest soul-search to date, and one I am very glad I did- there are positives to feeling the way you do in terms of getting to know yourself and dealing with issues before your baby is born, even if you can't see or feel them now.

And then she was born... and she wasn't a boy, but she wasn't 'a girl' either. She was mine. She was an Angie.

I still felt disappointed, but every day the disappointment lessened and was replaced by love for her. It wasn't an instantaneous process, but I fell utterly and hopelessly in love with her in a way which I could not have anticipated. You cannot know how you will feel once your baby is born; don't try, it's impossible. Just know that you will love her, and you will love her a thousand times more than your imagined daughter. Have faith in that.

I am now in a place where I would not swap her for any other child of either gender, sparkly princess dresses and all. I have even had another girl and feel my family is complete.

Good luck

tethersend Sat 27-Apr-13 12:13:52

Oh, and be prepared to become a Feminist with a capital F wink

Having a daughter made me realise a lot. A LOT.

bicyclebuiltforfour Sat 27-Apr-13 12:17:19

Glad you're not upset by all the bitching OP.

As you say, there will always be someone 'worse' off than you. One person' grief does not negate someone else's.

I've had cancer. Mine was treatable and curable. Does that mean I'm not allowed to struggle with the scars/people's reactions since there are people for whom cancer doesn't have a 'good' outcome? Of course not.

People have bitched on here because they are hurting, and you are an easy punchbag. Possibly not the right thing to do, but understandable.

Enjoy your pregnancy and enjoy your baby.

K8Middleton Sat 27-Apr-13 12:47:30

I find some of these posts to the op absolutely awful. Shame on you who have criticised her for how she feels or lambasted her because there are worse things. So what? It's all relative. This is something the op is worried about and has posted to explore. Yes maybe her choice of words has been a little clumsy but she doesn't deserve the vitriol. This is the pregnancy topic, not AIBU. A bit of compassion and sensitivity wouldn't go amiss.

Op, do an advanced search for 'gender disappointment' and look for Tether's (Tethersend) threads on the subject. They were very thoughtful, very sensitive and i think many of the posters here posted on her threads in a much more supportive way.

I'm going to hide this thread now because it's making my think badly of posters I otherwise like and I'd rather step away. I expect I'll get a bit of a flaming but I can take it - I'm not pregnant and I'm not looking any way.

K8Middleton Sat 27-Apr-13 12:48:37

X-posted. Hurrah for Tethers smile

tethersend Sat 27-Apr-13 13:01:43

Aw, thanks K8.

We never knew the 'make' of our two until they popped out! The first was a boy, which as 'daddy', I was very pleased about. I didn't want a girl. I didn't want to deal with the whole pink thing, the dolls, the princesses, the blokes as girls get older etc......

The second child was a girl. And I wouldn't change her for the world. She is a very pink and girlie girl, but that is who and what she is, I can't force it to be any other way, and wouldn't.

I'm very protective of her, (now 4), and I've learnt how to deal with the pinkness of everything.

The pink thing was my issue, not hers. As the adult, I had to adapt and except my little girl for what she is. A healthy, beautiful, fun, and very pink girl. I love her to bits.

Having gone, and going through it. My only advice to the OP, would be to love your daughter for who she is, not for what you force her to be because of your own prejudices.

Good luck.

cyclingtreadworn Sat 27-Apr-13 18:31:55

Nobody's bullying you OP - a few people rightly pointed out that your post was a bit distasteful and offensive. But I suspect you've spent your life convincing yourself that anyone who criticises you or tries to point out you might not be in the right is a bully or nasty, so why change that now. I do feel very sorry for your little girl though with such a self centred mother, I hope you are able to grow up a little and start putting someone else first once she is born.

I don't really see that you can extrapolate all that from one thread and a few posts from the OP cycling hmm

And lots of us both ..... find criticism a challenge
and ...... naturally find that having our own child does lead to changes in our attitudes, possibly including more mature attitudes to many things, and that having a daughter especially can challenge us and give us the opportunity to take a fresh look at how we and society as a whole view the female sex - as tethers said was the case for her. Though I think I found having a boy equally challenged my thinking in slightly different ways.

pinkr Sun 28-Apr-13 09:07:49

Op when you got married did you wear a special white dress? If so then you were buying into the antiquated notions of marriage and being a princess for the day! Just like your wee dd will perhaps dream about.
I understand you to a point...on a baby I don't like too much pink or frills but by the time my little one is old enough to choose she can be a princess if she likes.
i'm an academic by the way so its ok to talk to me (I hope this is the attitude that your DD doesn't pick up...much worse than pink princess)

dogsandcats Sun 28-Apr-13 09:45:55

1.Wait and see what your emotions are after you have given birth.
They will not be quite the same as you think or imagine them to be.
When you do an experiment, you wait to see the results do you not? And they can often be different to what you expected?

2.You are concerned that you will not have much in common with her. Tough. She will still be your daughter for ever more. And I hope you try your best with her every single day.

3. Just curious. Why did you want a baby in the first place?
A baby turns into a toddler and everntually an adult. Did it not occur to you before you conceived [assuming the pregnancy was planned] that the chances of a mini me were quite slim?
I have several children, and I cant say that any of them are mini mes.

4.What would happen if you had a boy. What if you took an instant dislike to his bushy eyebrows or whatever?

dogsandcats Sun 28-Apr-13 09:51:39

Apologies if any of this has been covered before by someone.

Your life is currently quite narrow.
It is about to open up quite considerably.
Your DD will have social needs.
You will be forced to interact with other parents, and health workers etc, even though your partner is going to be at home with her the most.
For your DDs sake, it really would be best for you and for her and for your partner if you became more tolerant of others.
Whatever the character of your DD.
And yes, there is a chance of your DD being very much like you, but never exactly the same.
Would anyone want their offspring to be exactly like themselves?
Good luck to you all.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sun 28-Apr-13 09:55:44

I can NEVER understand why people get so hung up on the sex of their baby!

You get to have a baby! That's amazing. It's something that some people cannot have. It is the greatest gift.

Who gives a flying fuck if its a girl or a boy. It's still a child and you will still love them.

Rowan1204 Sun 28-Apr-13 09:57:19

To be fair, you could have had a boy who ended up liking pink glittery things!
Try not to gender stereotype - not all girls want to be princesses and not all boys like to climb trees and play in the mud.
I do Understand how you feel having it in your head though. Im having twins and was convinced they were girls. But they are boys, and i already have one boy. Maybe we could swap sometimes :-)

Thingiebob Sun 28-Apr-13 09:57:40

I have a girl. She is three. She spent yesterday playing in the garden digging up worms and carrying the poor things around with her as made new homes for them. She stopped occasionally to shoot her water pistol at her football and shout madly at aeroplanes passing overhead.

It is possible to avoid the princess phase.

Tingalingle Sun 28-Apr-13 10:22:17

Rowan has a good point. Not all boys do indeed climb trees or play in the mud. One of my two hated it (despite quite definitely having a willy and a Lego collection).

Now, the chances are pretty high that your beloved daughter will want to climb trees and get mucky, but at least, because she's not a boy, you might be slightly prepare now for the possibility that she won't want to do either. That's good.

Children throw curve balls at you all the time. Life is never quite how you pictured it. That's good too.

Tingalingle Sun 28-Apr-13 10:22:43

*prepared

Am proofreader FGS, should be able to spell.

BabyHMummy Sun 28-Apr-13 11:01:55

Not sure if this make me odd but nothing you have said you are worried about has even occurred to me. I am pregnant with dd1 and am 24 weeks. To be honest at the moment i am still shock that i am even pregnant let alone the fact that shortly i am gonna have a daughter.

To be honest i don't really care what she is into. I have 2 step children who are vastly different to each other boy is a bit of a wimp in comparison to his sister. She is a complete daredevil. Neither shares any interests with either their mum or dad. Doesn't stop them loving their kids. Their mum desperately wanted their daughter To be girly and she occasionally relents and wears the pink etc but she ia far happier in jeans and t shirts scruffing around with her brother or playing on her nintendo.

I have bought pink things for my baby mainly cos if the takes after me in colouring etc she will not be able to wear yellow or green without looking like a giant red blob. i have also bought her jeans and patterned tops. I am not a girly girl but i liked the style of and the colours of a lot of the girly clothes when i went shopping with mil.

hotpie please don't worry so much. You are letting other ppl influence how u feel about your baby. Tell them all that she will like what she likes and u will love her regardless. As other have said until the ia old enough to chose for herself she will follow your lead so what are you worried about??!!

Smerlin Mon 29-Apr-13 11:06:49

Reply to iliketea- the only reason I currently have a preference for a girl is because I didn't fancy getting wee on the face from a boy but now you have explained that girls get wee in their hair while changing I think that removes my only prejudice!! shock shock !!!

DaveMccave Mon 29-Apr-13 11:50:42

I completely understand where the OP is coming from. I went through exactly the same. Always despised anything stereotypically girly, never could relate to girly girls as a child, always yearned for and imagined having boys.

So I was secretly a bit disappointed when I found out I was due a girl. I told myself she wouldn't be girly though, as I wouldn't conform to the stereotype. No Disney princess or too much pink and a range of toys for both genders etc

Until 2 all babies are gender neutral so it was fine, at 2 she suddenly became obsessed with pointing out flowers and pink and anything stereotypically girly with glee! To my utter horror! At 6, she still adores pink, my little pony, barbie, she is obsessed with anything sparkly or glittery, if she could chose anything to wear it would be long floral dresses all the time. She wants to be a princess and live in a castle and can often be heard muttering about how she can't wait to get married to a prince and wear a pretty dress. Contrary to other posters saying you won't care, I DO. I do dislike how different she is to me as I find it hard to relate to her. It's taken me a long time to not fight her preferences. I now give her a choice of pink and princess-y quite often instead of only offering more unisex choices and it is working, and she is mellowing out. I do think its important to question them and continue to offer gender neutral choices.

Dd was the only girl who wore a spiderman costume on superhero day at school (all the other girls wore Disney princess dresses) She adores dinosaurs (even if she plays tea parties with her toy ones) she is obsessed with Pokemon which i encourage. Her favourite film is ghostbusters. She likes superhero stuff (I got her into it via powerpuff girls who are an excellent role model!). I read her some books thy challenge stereotypes like pippi long stocking an babbette cole books. When she asked for a pink bike I got her a dark pink one with black tyres and blue sparkles instead of the hideous candy pink and white with a dolly basket. You both might have to learn to compromise, not letting the pink completely take over and continuously offering lots o choices and not making assumptions of their preferences is key, but you also have to learn to let them make their own decisions and may have to accept a lot of things you hate!

I'm currently pregnant and declines finding out the sex this time. I'd still love a boy, I still hope if its a girl it's not as girly as dd, but I know once they are in my arms I won't care so didn't want the chance to find out and dwell and be disappointed. I don't like my dd's preferences, im often disappointed when she picks ugly dresses! but it doesn't mean i don't love her even if i don't want to join in all her games. She doesn't like my favourite things and would rather I was more girly and we both have taught each other a lot about differences. I find we always get the kids we least expect, almost like they are there to magnify are flaws and teach us a lesson!

My tips are fight it while you can, as a baby. By Scandinavian baby clothes (polarn, smafolk, h&m all great for none pink frilly girls clothes). Buy garages AND dolls (my dd ignored most of the typical boys stuff but not all). Question their stereotypical choices, but mostly-if they do love pink then give them lots of opportunity to choose it. If you respect their choices a lot of the time, they will be more suggestible to yours.

pocopearl Mon 29-Apr-13 11:58:24

hotpie i know how you feel i cried for two days solid when i found out i was having a boy instead of a girl, i refused to tell anyone and still its just me and my dh who know. DH doesnt understand why im so upset, and even though im 29 weeks now i stil well up a little when we are looking at baby clothes and there are pretty dresses everywhere that other people with girls get to buy. i dont think its silly, but when you plan all the things in your head and something is out of your control goes a little different then it seems so unfair. cheer up lovey, im sure once she is here you will be worrying too much about other things to worry about her gender (well thats what im hoping) and soon the disappointment that you feel should change to excitement then you hit 29 weeks and start panicking that nothing is ready!!!!! x

SirBoobAlot Mon 29-Apr-13 12:00:34

Every child is different. Gender has nothing to do with it. I have a DS who is in love with all things pink. He loves gardening and painting, but hates getting anything on his clothes - loves messy play, as long as he doesn't get messy.

Your daughter will be however she is, because that's who she is. Love her for that, encourage her to make her own choices and love her for choosing them, because she will thank you for it when she is older.

daytoday Mon 29-Apr-13 12:20:46

Christ alive . . .

The pink phase (if you have it) will pass and you will miss it when it is gone. It is but a tiny fleck on your child's journey into adulthood. Soon you child will be wearing black and listening to a ipod in their room and not wanting to hang out with you.

We all have fantasies about what having a child means for us, and they NEED to be broken as they are bullshit fantasies. You know young boys play with baby dollies just as much as girls do.

If you really enjoy mud and rambling adventures they your child will probably love it to because they will love hanging out with their mum when she is having fun.

My son hated getting muddy when he was small.

nannyof3 Mon 29-Apr-13 12:25:47

Ur lucky you can fall pregnant..

Stop moaning !!!!!!!

ScrambledSmegs Mon 29-Apr-13 12:30:34

Treat your baby as an individual, not a stereotype.

Boys like dressing up, pink and playing with handbags/sparkly dresses too.

Girls play with lego, climb trees and enjoy fart jokes (amongst other things).

My DD1 is 3yo, lives in jeans, has an obsession with diggers and her best friend is a boy. And her favourite colour is pink.

TinkyPeet Mon 29-Apr-13 13:02:59

MNHQ - perhaps it's time to delete this thread now? Op has given up trying to explain her point over and over again to people who didn't read her posts properly and decided to attack.

ScrambledSmegs Mon 29-Apr-13 13:21:05

Eh? I was trying to do what the OP asked. If it looks like an attack I apologise but can categorically state that it isn't. Just a rather short post as was on my phone at the time.

If you want the thread deleted it's probably best to report it yourself. MNHQ probably won't spot your request in amongst the myriad of other posts. I doubt they would delete it as a lot of people have tried to be helpful, there's no bunfight etc and you're not the OP.

TinkyPeet Mon 29-Apr-13 14:01:37

Not your post scrambled smile
To be fair pretty much every thread I have looked at In the past few days has been an almighty bitch fest, not somewhere someone can ask for advice and support....but somewhere to sit behind a computer screen and hurl abuse at people's concerns and questions. Think this was just the sour icing on the bitchy cake! X

quickdowntonson Mon 29-Apr-13 15:37:21

Hi,
Don't worry. My daughter has always been a tomboy, loves getting muddy, climbing trees etc. If you don't bring her up to be a precious princess (which of course you won't!), then she won't be. I think that character is 90% environment. relax, it'll be fine and she will be great fun!! x

megarobotdiscoparty Mon 29-Apr-13 15:57:46

I was a terrifying child who played army, got into fights, screamed at being put into dresses, refused dolls and only played with cars. My DH was a big scaredy cat who still loves pink and kitsch, hates football and is frightened of roller coasters.

We are having a boy and goodness only knows what he will end up like-neither of us probably! I am extremely excited to find out though smile

Your lovely baby girl will be who she will be. Let her be and don't worry.

My beautiful DD (4.5) adores Fireman Sam and Jake and the Neverland Pirates. She has done football lessons for the past year (her choice) and has now decided she doesn't want to do football any more as she wants to do ballet.

Tonight, we are off to buy her ballet shoes and a dress.

She would kill for a Fireman Sam truck for her birthday but equally wants a hair change barbie doll.

Her dad and I have tried to provide her with all types of toys and experiences and talk a lot about how there are no toys for boys and no toys for girls - there are just toys.
Same goes for clothes. She wears pjs from Asda's boys section.

She'll get a load of new influences at school. bring her up to be strong and confident and with a tonne of love and she'll be fine whatever colour she wants to wear smile

PS DS (16m) will also be offered football or ballet at 3 and it will be his choice.

PPS> I too thought I was having a boy. When DD arrived I was stunned but then realised I could ensure her journey into puberty was not the complete fuckup that mine was as I would be a mother who actually told her about periods before they started at 9 years old. But that's another thread smile

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