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Last Post - Heavy Drinking Before I Knew I Was Pregnant (have to decide today)

(161 Posts)
tsmith02162013 Thu 28-Feb-13 15:01:59

I appreciate the women who responded to my first thread about drinking (heavily) before I knew I was pregnant.

I have to make a decision today as to what I am going to do- keeping going or not. I am hoping to hear from any woman who drank as heavily as I did before she knew she was pregnant and then went on to have the baby.

When I was 28 days (4 weeks) since my last period, I drank two bottles of wine (standard 750 ML size) in one night. The next night, I had 3 drinks (1 beer, 2 glasses of wine), and the night after, I had 4-5 beers.

I was also drinking earlier that month, usually a glass of wine here or there. What really worries me is the binge drinking, the heavy drinking, the night of 2 bottles of wine.

If I can find mums who had a drinking problem like I did, who drank that heavily before they knew, I think it would be enough to settle my mind. My GP and midwife, who I saw since the last thread, were not very reassuring, although we did see a heartbeat.

PandaWatch Thu 28-Feb-13 15:06:46

If you were 4 weeks from your last period you would only have conceived approximately 2 weeks before your drinking session. The baby doesn't share a blood supply with you at this point so would not be affected.

We were on holiday with my SiL when she would have been around 4 weeks pregnant. She drank cocktails and wine everyday for a week, went on rollercoasters, ate the "wrong" foods. Her DS is now just over a year, just started walking, forming his first words and is a healthy, happy, clever little boy who has never had any problems.

elfycat Thu 28-Feb-13 15:09:32

I realised I was pregnant when the hangover just didn't go away. Following a military party and they are never light on the alcohol. Alcohol was a feature in my life (to that point). DH and I could drink 3 bottles of red wine between us a night. 6-8 pints of ale, no problem.

DD1 is 4 and tucked under my arm watching Kung Fu Panda 2. She's tall, good build, bright, emotionally mature for her age, kind to DD2 (mostly).

No problems really apart from she was 4 weeks early and that might be linked to alcohol, but then again might not have been. Make sure you have your bag packed by 35 weeks.

Good luck whatever you decide.

shrimponastick Thu 28-Feb-13 15:11:01

I drank loads before discovering I was pregnant. And I may also taken some illegal stuff too.

I felt totally guilty - but I imagine that many, many pregnancies occur because of heavy drinking. i.e. a drunken night out leading to unprotected sex.

DS is now 15 and absolutely fine. A* student - doing very well.

I think it becomes an issue if the heavy drinking continues into the pregnancy - once you have had the BFP then quit.

I had several heavy sessions before I found out at 9 weeks with dd. I also smoked 10/15 a day.

She was a healthy baby, good birthweight and no neurological problems.

At the stage you did your heaviest drinking your baby wasn't connected to your blood supply yet so won't have been affected.

Promethea Thu 28-Feb-13 15:12:55

I did. More than you, easily more. DD2 born at 41 weeks, 9lb 12 - happy, healthy, very bright, extremely tall for her age 2 year old

winnybella Thu 28-Feb-13 15:14:46

I have read a bit of your thread and tbh what made me feel worried was not the alcohol you drank but all the obsessing you seem to be doing despite lots and lots of good advice you got. Have you got health anxiety/general anxiety/OCD, perhaps? I mean it with kindness, btw, please don't be offended.

FWIW I drank like fish before I found out I was pregnant, and every day as well, with both pregnancies. I also drank moderately (few small glasses of wine a week) for the entire duration of pregnancy both times (with the blessing of the obstetrician and midwives). Both DC born healthy, good weight, bright, doing great at school.

If you really want to have a child, then I think it would be very unreasonable to terminate based on the info you provided. You do realise that lots if not most women drink before they find out they are pg and go on to have healthy babies?

LivingThings Thu 28-Feb-13 15:15:30

I drank tons before pregnant. If you were 4 weeks from period you're only actually 2weeks pregnant and 'baby' is a cell dividing like crazy and not even embedded and sharing your supply yet. Its what you do now that matters.

Moominsarehippos Thu 28-Feb-13 15:17:11

My exSIL is an alcoholoc and didn't ease up before, during or after pregnancy. DN is absolutely fine.

Portofino Thu 28-Feb-13 15:17:15

God - I was on a project secondment to Dublin when I discovered I was PG. We were out every night. It was one of those work hard/play hard environments. I was flying twice a week and mainlining free G&Ts in the airport lounge too. I had the odd glass all through my pregancy too.

Dd is nine next month and top of her class at school. 8lb10 at birth, healthy and happy as a lark.

HavingALittleFaithBaby Thu 28-Feb-13 15:22:56

Have you don't your research about foetal alcohol syndrome? I think your decision seems to be less about the alcohol and really about if you're ready to have this baby. It's unlikely that your alcohol consumption in early days affected the baby - it's more about regularly consuming alcohol throughout your pregnancy and it crossing the placenta. Have you stopped drinking now?

ladymia Thu 28-Feb-13 15:25:54

I think there are bigger issues at play here than you worrying about the alcohol you consumed.

I read your last post although I didn't comment - there was no extra advice I could have given you that the other posters had not already voiced.

If you have been taking the MNers advice on board, you will see that FAS affects women who continue to drink heavily in pregnancy. If this is your intention, then you have an alcohol dependency problem that needs to be addressed. There are plenty of counsellors available to help you deal with this, your doctor should be able to recommend someone.

However, if this is not the case and you are convinced you have damaged your baby despite finding a heartbeat and despite countless posters sharing their very similar experiences and going on to have healthy and happy children - then I strongly suspect that you are using the binge drinking as a way out of a situation you do not feel ready to deal with. Are you naturally anxious, or is it specific to the pregnancy? Either way, my advice again is to seek some professional help, but only once you have asked yourself a very honest question and answer it truthfully - do you actually want this pregnancy to continue?

I am sorry if any of what I have said seems blunt or harsh but I have a diploma in counselling and I something in your posts seems very off, especially in spite of you not listening to the advice of all the people trying to help you here.

sydlexic Thu 28-Feb-13 16:02:56

Well said Pheonix.

I'd been at a music festival the weekend before u fell pregnant with my son I drank a box of wine , vodka beer etc :-0
Hangover wouldn't go away and found out I was pregnsnt that week, my son is now nearly 9 and very smart and lovely.
I'm told in the very early days they don't share a blood supply as such.

infinitemonkeys Thu 28-Feb-13 16:58:50

I also read your last post, but only now feel moved to comment. I do agree with previous posters, and feel that the drinking thing might be a smokescreen for something else to be honest, particularly as you seem not to want to hear that everything will be fine. Are you looking for a reason to abort?

If it helps, I drank an absolute skinful a couple of times before I POAS - and by that, I mean spending a whole day drinking beer with friends (got through about 8 cans), then on to a bar where a scary amount of rum and vodka was consumed, then home to a couple of glasses of wine. In one day.

I also used to drink a good couple of glasses of wine per night - big glasses. Obviously, as soon as I found out I was pregnant (at about 2 days after my period should have been due, so 4 weeks 3 days after LMP, I stopped drinking, and have only had very occasional, small glasses of wine here and there since then. I didn't worry at all about what effect my drinking very early on may have had, because like many people have already said, the baby is self-contained at that point. It's also more than fair to say that many babies are conceived in a drunken haze, and before the advent of early detection tests, a lot of women had no idea they were pregnant until missing at least one period.

There is an awful lot of scary propaganda out there about FAS, but it really is only an issue for women who drink a lot on a regular basis during pregnancy. A blowout early on is totally different. I asked my doctor about my two big drinking days before I found out, and he said that if I had done any damage at such an early stage, I would miscarry.

If FAS was as big of a thing as many people would have you believe, then why is it that our parents' generation, whose mothers were told to drink Guinness daily to "keep their iron up", aren't a bunch of deformed-faced mentally disabled people?

Again, FAS is only a worry if you are an alcoholic who continues to drink very substantial amounts throughout your pregnancy.

But be honest, that's not the answer you're looking for, is it? My thinking is that you, for whatever reason, don't want this baby (which is perfectly fine, by the way), and are looking for a "way out" that absolves you somewhat of making the decision.

^ I strongly suspect that you are using the binge drinking as a way out of a situation you do not feel ready to deal with. Are you naturally anxious, or is it specific to the pregnancy? Either way, my advice again is to seek some professional help, but only once you have asked yourself a very honest question and answer it truthfully - do you actually want this pregnancy to continue?^

This is exactly what I was thinking. OP, you are waiting for ONE woman to come along and say, You know I did that and my baby was seriously damaged. But no one has. You have had countless people tell you it's most likely not an issue. But you are continuing to ask...why?

ladymia Thu 28-Feb-13 17:10:36

"If I can find mums who had a drinking problem like I did, who drank that heavily before they knew, I think it would be enough to settle my mind."

The 94 people that told you it will be fine on your last thread didn't seem to settle your mind, 94 more replies on here will not do that.

As a PP poster said you do not want people to reassure you things are OK it seems you want one person to justify your fear.

Right now the chance that something has gone wrong because of a binge must be about less than 1.5% (my uneducated guess!) how will you cope with the testing at 12 weeks for DS? How will you cope with the Anomaly Scan?

Artichook Thu 28-Feb-13 17:32:12

When I was 4 weeks pregnant with DC1 I went out 4 nights in a row and drank at least one bottle on wine each night, plus some shots (in my defender it was Christmas party season). On the fifth day the vomiting started, I thought it was the worst hangover ever, only after 38 hours without respite did I think to test.

I hadn't been taking pre-natal vitamins either.

DC1 was fine. Now aged six and bright as a button. TBH it didn't occur to me to worry as I knew I wouldn't drink again before birth.

Mandytm Thu 28-Feb-13 18:06:21

I would talk to your doctor to understand the real risk.

Like a lot of others here, I also have anecdotal evidence. My mum was an alcoholic and said she drank a bottle of gin in one day, 2 weeks before she knew she was pregnant with me - so probably about when you binged. I've never been ill in hospital, am happily married with a masters degree and decent job - so quite sure there's no lasting damage to me.

But if the alcohol is the only reason that you're not sure if you want to do this, then speak to a medial professional ASAP to get sound advice to base your decision on.

PopeBenedictsP45 Thu 28-Feb-13 18:10:19

I also have my own anecdotal evidence.

I was on holiday for two weeks before I found out I was pregnant. I drank very heavily - it was an area known for its good, cheap wine and boy did I indulge. I had wine with breakfast. blush I had no idea I was pregnant (on the pill). I also smoked.

DC is absolutely fine, no problems whatever.

Drinking while pregnant is still such an unknown quantity as it's very difficult to study. A lot of respondents with FAS children exaggerate what they drank during pregnancy, so studies haven't exactly proved reliable.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 28-Feb-13 18:13:42

"A bunch of deformed faced mentally disabled people" isn't the ideal way to describe people with FAS

KobayashiMaru Thu 28-Feb-13 18:14:12

I drank far more than you did before I was pregnant. Somebody very close to me died very suddenly and I went a bit mental. A month of serious binge drinking, smoking and poor eating followed. My dc was born 8 months later healthy, and now many years later is bright, tall and strong.

You know that until the placenta forms at around 5-6 weeks there is really no harm you can do to an embryo/zygote? It's only after that point that alcohol cav affect it.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 28-Feb-13 18:14:47

As regards the OP I think the foetus will be OK so dont base any decision upon that fear.

KobayashiMaru Thu 28-Feb-13 18:15:39

*before I knew I was pregnant. Doesn't make any sense otherwise. blush

croydonmum Thu 28-Feb-13 18:19:02

I drank half a bottle of vodka one night before I realised I was pregnant and other assorted drinks. I also drank smaller amounts regularly. I also smoked. I gave up when I found out I was pregnant (about 7-8 weeks gestation). I had also taken the morning after pill just before my last period. DD was fine and has never had any particular health problems. In fact she is very intelligent and goes to a grammar school.

If what you put in your post is the extent of it, I wouldn't worry. I think long term and later in the pregnancy is more harmful.

Spoonful Thu 28-Feb-13 18:26:15

I also wonder whether you have another worry going on here that you are hiding somewhat with the alcohol concern.
I think you should talk to someone about your anxiety.

Locketjuice Thu 28-Feb-13 18:31:47

There are people that don't even realise they are pregnant for months! I really wouldn't terminate considering you were still in the REALLY early stages

bluer Thu 28-Feb-13 18:39:34

You say you are looking for mums who had a drinking problem like you did...what you've had doesn't seem that excessive. Have you perhaps drank much more than what you've said? Do you think you have a problem?
It does sounds like you have bigger issues tbh....if you knew how much pain and heartache people go through to be in your condition you might not be as flippant about abortion.

AmberLeaf Thu 28-Feb-13 18:41:25

I was a 21 year old student when I got pregnant with my first child, I drank a fair amount before finding out I was pregnant at 5 weeks post last period.

My son is fine, bright and healthy.

I am getting the same impression from others that there is more to this than worrying about alcohol consumption, oh and I wouldn't call what you described as a 'drinking problem'

Are you looking for 'permission' to terminate?

AmberLeaf Thu 28-Feb-13 18:42:11

*as others not from

AmberLeaf Thu 28-Feb-13 18:43:28

if you knew how much pain and heartache people go through to be in your condition you might not be as flippant about abortion

That's not fair.

The Op is clearly struggling here, one pain doesn't trump another.

bluer Thu 28-Feb-13 18:58:12

I think she's struggling with some thing but its not what she's saying. She has issues and frankly it doesn't sound right at all, and actually a bit unbelievable.

AmberLeaf Thu 28-Feb-13 19:06:17

Struggling is struggling.

If you think it's unbelievable then report it to MNHQ.

beckie90 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:13:27

Ds1 I was 17 so had just started going out etc about 5 days beforei found out I went out and drank loads, he's fine.

Ds2 I had a friends get together about 6 days before finding out I also had a lot to drink then, he's also fine.

Your baby will be fine, honestly xx

BikeRunSki Thu 28-Feb-13 19:14:35

I was at a similar stage with DC1 on New Year's Eve 5 years ago, and had an awful lot to drink over the course of 48 hours - an entire bottle of whiskey, several beers, a couple of bottles of wine. That baby is now 4 and absolutely fine.

tsmith02162013 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:36:33

Two bottles of wine (real-sized bottles of wine) by one woman in one night is excessive drinking. Especially if said woman is pregnant, regardless of whether she knows it or not. And I continued to have 3 drinks, then 5 drinks up until the positive pregnancy test.

I appreciate the responses and was reaching out again because my doctor was not very reassuring. I heard about positive outcomes from the women on this board, and then the doctor came crashing in with his negative view of my health that first month of pregnancy and my excessive drinking, especially over the binge weekend when I was 4 weeks, 4 weeks 1-2 days.

I am in counselling and do have anxiety issues. I enrolled in counselling after I found out about the pregnancy because I knew that I could not handle this on my own.

I am not sure if I mentioned this before, but I am married, and my husband works in a high stress environment. I confided in him about my concerns early on, right after the positive pregnancy test, but I cannot continue to lean on him with this issue. He is a wonderful man, but there is only so much support he can give me.

In light of my doctor's less than optimistic attitude, I wanted to reach out to real women, and I appreciate the responses. Thank you again for taking the time to discuss this with me.

I want to apologize to the people who feel that I am being flippant about abortion. I promise you, if I were not taking this matter so seriously, I would just go have the procedure, without pursuing every avenue for scientific data, anecdotes (which is really all we have, in light of the lack of data about binge drinking in early pregnancy), and stories of hope.

Thank you to those of you who have responded.

Cheffie100 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:44:01

You are worrying over nothing. I drank for the first 10 days after child was conceived non stop on honeymoon and we are both fine! Your doc should have reassured you and the risk is very little in those early days

Tsmith it's obviously on your mind and I don't understand why your doctor was so over the top, when I brought up the same thing to my mw she said more women then not do the same!
I didn't find out I was pregnant till 7/8 wks as had implantation bleed mistook for af, over that time it was Xmas, new year, I went on a course with work which I drank every night and my bday which if I elaborate that days alcohol, one bottle of cava at breckie ( dh had one glass I had the rest) 2 bottle if beer at lunch and about 6/7 that evening!! Dd is lovely clever smart , infact I havnt read one post where anyone's dc was effected other then a possibly, I don't advise it obviously but what's done us done, you start as you mean to go on when you know you ARE pregnant you don't avoid banned foods before etc do you? If you aborted then tried again what if it took years to fall pregnant? This isn't unlikely, it took me 18months to conceive dd only 1 for current pregnancy, are you never going to have a drink in that time again over Xmas etc just incase? Ask yourself how likely it is the majority of women carry on drinking etc as normal Untill they find out, I bet it's over 50%

Thank you for replying OP, have been thinking of you.

I'm glad you're getting some counselling. It seems like you know you are struggling even if the reason for it is unclear. Is your DH happy about the pregnancy? Are you? I think you need to try and examine your feelings about it all, and be able to face what might come next, whatever that may be.

ChairmanWow Thu 28-Feb-13 20:37:54

Most of us don't think you were being flippant about abortion - very much the opposite given your anxiety issues. I hope the counselling helps you to deal with that.

If it helps two of my friends had similar experiences. One was ttc and had a BFN so she went out on the lash all weekend - including a night drinking two bottles of wine like yourself. Then on the Monday morning she still had no period and got a BFP. Her daughter is perfect. The other friend had an accident and because of irregular periods didn't find out til she was 7 weeks, during which time she went to a festival and didn't just drink copious amounts but also took class A drugs (please let's not go there on here!). Her son is 4 now and has absolutely no problems.

mylittlepuds Thu 28-Feb-13 21:11:33

That amount of alcohol doesn't seem particularly shocking given you didn't know you were pregnant.

LemonPeculiarJones Thu 28-Feb-13 22:17:58

Hello lovely, after your doctor being stern about this you are obviously craving reassurance so please do absorb and hear all the tales here!

I can add my own: before I knew I was pg with my DS, it was the Christmas period. I went out loads. I drank lots of wine, on many evenings. I also dabbled in a bit of social smoking. It was definitely binge drinking for a few of those evenings. You know, rollicking pissed I'm such a class act

My DS is 18 months now, tall, strong and healthy, walked at 10 months, bright as a button, chattering away smile

As many posters have said before, up until about 8 weeks (I think? Around then) the foetus is nourished by the yolk sack and is not getting it's nourishment via the placenta/your blood stream.

You will be fine and so will your baby.

Your doctor sounds like an arse.

Do read and reread all the answers you get here. Anxiety can bend the brain, I know, and make you feel powerless against the panic you feel - let the thoughts come and go. Don't try to 'fix' them. Try to blank your mind and read these answers. Don't expect it all to feel ok like a switch flicking - just let your mind observe the ideas in these posts.

Pregnancy is a scary time - glad you have a counsellor. Take care x

maxbear Thu 28-Feb-13 22:37:05

Just to add to the reassurances, I don't drink very much usually and when we were trying for DC1 I was very careful not to drink each month when I was due on, then after trying for several months we went on holiday where I relaxed and enjoyed myself (drank lots more than I usually would) I was so sure I would never get pregnant! Bfp the day I got home! I'm a midwife and to be honest I didn't really worry as I stopped as soon as I knew I was pg. DD is 8 and fab, no problems with her!

Teaandflapjacks Fri 01-Mar-13 00:27:51

Hey hon,

I think perhaps some people who were concerned for you didn't quite understand anxiety issues, and how a negative thought sticks on repeat in your head, no matter what positive stuff is said after. Hopefully your counselling includes some CBT - great for anxiety issues. Unfortunately, your brain thinking pattern is working in the wrong way with anxiety, and needs help to re-set it. Another thing I wanted to tell you - and this is a major long shot - but do ask your doctor to get your TPO level tested for Hashimotos Thyroiditis (see wikipedia). This is often mis diagnosed as anxiety, manifests in exactly the same way, but is very easily treatable with thyroxin. Also - maybe change doctors - and get a female one if you can?

On your worries with the baby. Well, most babies wouldn't be here with a huge bucket of booze and people getting frisky. But also, think for a moment about what stage the baby was at when you were 4-5 weeks. It was just nestling down into your womb lining. It was not taking anything from your blood supply at this stage. I think this is natures way of protecting embryo before you realise you are pregnant. Think about it - it is the same with your eggs, and you don't need to worry about them normally. And if you had been 28 days from period - then your were 4 week pregnant, if that, as you wont know when you ovulated. It really is not anything to worry about at all. I think pretty much all women had a skin full before knowing. But this really does not effect the baby. I have had this same said to me by numerous doctors BTW - in the UK and here in Germany. It is once the baby is 6 -7 weeks in then there starts to be a v v v v small risk, which increases if people obv. booze during pregnancy. Also, bodies are pretty smart, unviable embryos, usually miscarry early on. Please do not worry, the human body is amazing, it protects itself pretty well against a lot, and repairs itself amazingly well. Your baby is just fine.

If you are worried about being on your own with the baby, while hubby works long hours, and worried about coping, then mums to be groups can be really great. Try a few to find like minded people. But most importantly - be happy about the baby. There is nothing wrong with choosing that if this is not the right time for you too - this is why we live in a modern society where woman can choose.

Take care xx

Teaandflapjacks Fri 01-Mar-13 00:31:23

p.s. although it is about depression, it is a sibling of anxiety, and I particularly enjoyed Sally Brompton's 'shoot the damn dog' - you might take some comfort from it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shoot-Damn-Dog-Memoir-Depression/dp/0747572453/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362097825&sr=8-1

tsmith02162013 Fri 01-Mar-13 20:42:28

Thank you, everyone! I really have been on a quest to find women who drank (heavily) at 4 weeks after their last period, who still had healthy babies. It sounds like the odds may be in my favor, even if the doctor was less than enthusiastic about where things stand.

My husband is very, very happy about the baby (although he was not very happy with my reaction- sobbing, thinking of all the awful things I have done already to this child by drinking like an idiot). Although to be fair, I was not ridiculous after two bottles of wine, and I felt fine the next day. It's the rest of my life and the baby's life that I'm worried about now.

But from what I've heard, I'm not the first woman to do this, and to drink heavily before she knew. If there really can be a good outcome, if someone out there has done what I've done at had a healthy baby, then I can focus on that.

Thanks again!

Gemsyf Fri 01-Mar-13 21:37:20

My first post here, so I hope I am doing it right!

I am 8 + 4 pregnant, had a scan this week which found bean and heartbeat. I drunk and actually fairly heavily as well as smoked before I had a clue I was pregnant, as I wasn't expecting it at all.
The private consultant I saw this week for my scan, said to me not to worry in the slightest (as did my doctor)- I found out I was pregnant at 6 weeks, and stopped drinking and smoking immediately. As others have said to you, the baby is not even connected to your blood supply at this point - they are being nourished by the yolk sac.

By the way your doctor sounds like an idiot, so I would avoid him in future! Try and enjoy your pregnancy and stop worrying - what will be will be. All you can do is be sensible. Worrying (or not worrying) is not going to change anything other than the enjoyment you get from this. It is such a precious experience (which I think gets lost sometimes amoungst the worry), and should be enjoyed.

Chubfuddler Fri 01-Mar-13 21:45:10

I have to say something here op, and I replied to your last thread about this and I also totally agree with pheonix.

No one can guarantee you a healthy baby. No one can guarantee that your baby will have no health problems which are completely unrelated to alcohol consumption. It's really not as simple as "all these women on the Internet got bladdered and their babies were give so mine will be too" and not is it a case of "drink x units and your baby is screwed, might as well abort."

I'm not convinced that anything anyone on MN can say will reassure you. I'm glad you're in counselling about this. I'm surprised by your doctors reaction. Are you not in the UK?

Before I found out I was pregnant with DS (at 5 weeks or so) I partied a lot and drank heavily. In fact I was handling alcohol surprisingly well - I wasn't getting hangovers after excessive drinking. It turns out that may be one of my early pregnancy indicators - currently pregnant with DC2 (only 6 weeks) and although we were TTC I still drank probably a bit more than I should have done and it was only when I realised I wasn't hungover after 1.5 bottles of wine on a rare night out that I became suspicious!

For what it's worth, DS is absolutely fine, two years old, bright, healthy and thriving. I am no longer drinking since discovering I am pregnant again but I am not worried that I did drink before I found out. What's done is done and there is such a minuscule chance of it impacting on the foetus I feel it would be more detrimental to the pregnancy for me to stress about it.

If you want this baby, please don't worry about what you have done up until the point you discovered the pregnancy. No one can say 100% you will have a healthy baby at the end of it but the odds are in your favour.

Your doctor is just towing the hard line and being stern - some are just like that. In my experience they are the minority and most would advise you not to worry and to just be healthy and kind to your body throughout the remainder of your pregnancy - which includes not fretting and not putting yourself under stress! smile

tsmith02162013 Sat 02-Mar-13 00:30:44

To be fair, I think what shocked and concerned my doctor was the amount I had to drink ^in one night^- two bottles of wine, by myself. If it had been just a few drinks, I don't think he would have been so harsh. And I do struggle to find any woman who drank as much as I did in one night, before she knew she was pregnant. That's what continues to scare me.

ladymia Sat 02-Mar-13 00:35:46

You clearly did not bother reading any replies to you on this or your previous thread. just on this thread someone admitted to drinking half a bottle of vodka in one night. on your other thread MANY people told you they drank way more than you.

I find it a little bit disrespectful to the ladies that shared their stories with you that you did not even read their replies or reassurances.

Good luck to you.

cece Sat 02-Mar-13 00:54:07

When I had DD (my first) I had a leaving do to fo to and got hideously drunk. Plus a few odd glasses fo wine. A week later I went to a wedding and spent all day drinking. I was about 6 weeks then.

It never occured to me to abort. My GP didn't think it was a big deal. I stopped drinking straight away. DD is now nealry 12 years old and top set for core subjects in Year 7. Doesn't seem to have done her any harm.

AmberLeaf Sat 02-Mar-13 01:03:15

And I do struggle to find any woman who drank as much as I did in one night, before she knew she was pregnant. That's what continues to scare me

Honestly?

2 bottles of wine is nothing.

Yes I know about guidelines etc, but 2 bottles is just not that excessive and many people have said they drank more than that and their children are fine.

Half a bottle of vodka is much more than 2 bottles of wine.

Over the course of an early evening meal and after me and a friend drank 6 bottles between us. That was 13% alcohol white wine.

I was about 4 weeks pregnant.

My son is fine.

At this stage your baby is not sharing your blood supply.

ChairmanWow Sat 02-Mar-13 07:10:04

OP you are obviously still feeling anxious about this. Please, as a PP suggested, read and re-read this thread and the numerous positive replies. I think you should be focussing now on getting some urgent support for your anxiety not on the fact you drank, which you can't change.

Possiblyoutedled Sat 02-Mar-13 07:18:22

Is this some kind of information gathering?
The ops posts seem a little directive especially the first one which almosts puts the onus on posters to answer properly or the pregnancy will be no more hmm the op doesn't seem too interested in the replys either.

Jenski Sat 02-Mar-13 07:47:39

I think Possibly may have a point. OP seems to not be taking in what others have so helpfully and honestly said. I hope this isn't info for a thesis or something! Apologies if wrong though!

FanjoForTheMammaries Sat 02-Mar-13 08:18:56

If you think that then report the thread rather than possibly making things worse for an innocent person going through a hard time?

TheCountessOlenska Sat 02-Mar-13 08:22:22

Agree with Chubfuddler - no one can guarantee you a perfect baby.

And agree with everyone who has said that both your threads and reactions to posters sharing their stories has been extremely odd imo.

TheCountessOlenska Sat 02-Mar-13 08:23:17

Sorry Fanjo - x-post. I will report and I never have done before but think this one calls for it.

Ledkr Sat 02-Mar-13 09:03:33

I didn't report for that very reason. Not sure. I also suggested information gathering which as far as I'm aware isn't a reports me offence.
I answered candidly at the beginning of the thread.

RobotHamster Sat 02-Mar-13 09:05:16

Amber - I have to disagree with you there. 2 bottles is a lot by most people's standards! Its around 20 units.

Half a bottle of vodka is probably less units actually.

tsmith02162013 Sun 03-Mar-13 17:25:59

I am sad to say that this really did happen to me. And yes, the reason I kept asking is that two bottles of wine is a lot more than half a bottle of vodka, unit per unit. I am sorry though if the title of the post made anyone feel that I was demanding a positive response or I would terminate the pregnancy.

I am in an incredibly difficult position. The medical advice that I received has not been very helpful, mostly because I drank an extreme amount of alcohol. I know "wine" doesn't sound as "bad" as "vodka," but alcohol is alcohol. And the fact is that I drank two bottles of wine, 750 ML each, before I knew I was pregnant, at 4 weeks.

I thought that if I could find more women who drank as excessively as I did, that I would be able to stop worrying. Or at least I would have a better idea of what my chances are.

leniwhite Sun 03-Mar-13 17:48:07

I used to work in a rehab with ladies who drank a bottle of vodka minimum every day when pregnant. Luckily for them not one of their children had any effects from that, so maybe that will put your one binge into perspective a bit? Certainly not enough of a binge to need to base an abortion on, with any baby there is always a chance of cognitive issues, whether mum drinks or not, but I understand how worrying it can be.

Please try and put this behind you and look forward - it's not as if you binged knowing you were pregnant and chances are your baby will be fine!

So to answer categorically YES there are many women who have drunk a lot more than two bottles of wine whilst pregnant.

cyclecamper Sun 03-Mar-13 17:49:47

Wine isn't as 'bad' as vodka. Vodka is much stronger and half a bottle of vodka is twice the alcohol of a bottle of wine (1 unit per 100ml wine; 1 unit per 25ml vodka approx). As various people have said, lots of people drink a lot before they find out, it is not likely to affect your baby early on as the baby isn't connected to your blood supply.

A lot of people drink far more than is healthy generally and no decent dr is going to tell you that it is fine to do so, especially when you are pregnant, but most babies are fine and were fine in the old days before there were so many guidelines. As someone said, no-one can guarantee that your baby will be fine, but the probability is that it will be.

MajaBiene Sun 03-Mar-13 17:53:49

What did your doctor say to you that has worried you so much?

stargirl1701 Sun 03-Mar-13 17:59:01

OP, where do you live? Are you in the US?

lucybrad Sun 03-Mar-13 18:18:01

loads of people on here have said they have drunk loads and then found out they are pregnant. I did too, it was xmas and new years! Stop worrying. It was too early for it to get to the babys blood stream. We all keep telling you over and over again. If people got FAS from doing similar to what you did, the country would be full of it. It very rare! and the result of excessive consumpton throughout pregnancy.

This is definately NOT a reason to terminate. The anxiety you feel now is a normal symptom of your early pregnancy. STOP WORRYING. thanks

janek Sun 03-Mar-13 18:19:39

Two bottles of wine at 12% is 18 units of alcohol. Half a bottle of vodka is 14 units, but i bet by the time they were that far down the vodka no one was measuring and it's likely to be more than 'half' rather than less, so essentially the same amount of alcohol was imbibed, or vodka-drinker potentially had more...

Fwiw i really wouldn't worry. Your baby will be fine. And i think your gp is acting immorally causing a pregnant woman so much stress that she is considering aborting. Aren't doctors duty-bound to preserve life? That's not what he/she is doing!

I understand your anxiety, but i bet you find, as the pregnancy progresses, and you can see things are normal you will start to feel better about it.

curiousgeorgie Sun 03-Mar-13 18:23:50

I went skiing in January 2010, drank actual pints of wine, copious shots, had a whole bottle of dooleys with a friend... Literally drank from 11am till the early hours, everyday for a week. I also had a particularly bad fall that knocked me out for a second and had me sliding halfway down a mountain... Which Really hurt.

When I got home I found out I was pregnant.

She was born later that year and is 2 and a half now. She is so amazingly bright and brilliant. Just today I was told how great her speech is... She can count and read numbers (even no consecutively) to 30. She knows all shapes, colours, heavy / light, big / small... She can read the alphabet and is learning phonics really quickly.

You drank a hell of a lot less than I did and it certainly didn't do my DD any harm!!

tsmith02162013 Sun 03-Mar-13 20:16:12

My doctor is not advising me to have an abortion. What he said is that he has no idea what the impact of the heavy alcohol consumption will be. He said that there are women who have had babies who exhibited the effects of fetal alcohol exposure from heavy drinking similar to mine, in early pregnancy.

He did say that if it had been two glasses of wine instead of two bottles of wine, he would tell me not to worry. He said that we "might" still be fine but that there is no way to tell, but there is no way to quantify what the chances might be.

I know that there is no guarantee for a healthy baby. Perhaps my doctor is being cautious. But if I had no reason to worry, why would he not just say that? And why would he raise the notion that there are other women who did what I did (drank that heavily before they knew) and harmed their children as a result?

I did have an appointment for a termination scheduled for Friday (a few days ago), but I cancelled. I am not ready to make this decision either way.

mylittlepuds Sun 03-Mar-13 20:20:35

I think you need to get a second opinion. I'm no doctor but I'm sure I've read that FAS is from prolonged exposure, not a binge? I could be massively wrong though.

lougle Sun 03-Mar-13 20:34:35

tsmith my baby was born with an (as yet, undiagnosed) condition. She's 7 now and she is a delight, she goes to special school.

One of the first questions I was asked when the Paediatrician saw us at almost 3 years old was 'how much did you drink in pregnancy?'

The answer was 'not a drop'. I don't drink...I don't like the taste, so I never have alcohol.

There isn't always a good reason why babies are born different.

I know some children with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. They are adopted because their parents were so completely unable to look after their children because of their addiction to alcohol.

Honestly, it's so unlikely.

bluer Sun 03-Mar-13 20:39:11

it is wrong that you are using a forum like this. You need to get professional medical advice and help. It is unfair to ask opinion and then ignore most advice given and mention termination etc.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Sun 03-Mar-13 20:42:17

It doesn't matter how much you drank at 4 weeks PG, because none of it got to the foetus.

The placenta hadn't formed yet, and your alcohol-laden blood wasn't shared.

I'm surprised your doctor didn't mention that. Have you stopped drinking now?

MajaBiene Sun 03-Mar-13 22:05:45

Go back to your doctor and ask him what information he was using to come to the conclusion that maternal alcohol consumption at 2 weeks post conception could damage an embryo.

mylittlepuds Sun 03-Mar-13 22:09:22

Agree with Maja.

LemonPeculiarJones Sun 03-Mar-13 23:09:34

I wonder what year the medical profession decided that alcohol should be avoided in pregnancy? I'm guessing about forty or fifty years ago, less perhaps? Does anyone know? I can't seem to wade through the google answers to find anything useful.

Because it would be interesting to compare stats - preponderance of abnormalities before and after the change in attitudes.

Women used to drink throughout their pregnancies not so long ago - encouraged to drink Guinness etc.

OP I think your issue is with your anxiety rather than your pregnancy. Have you spoken to another doctor, and/or a midwife?

SeriousStuff Sun 03-Mar-13 23:31:42

In my own personal (non-medical) opinion, I think your initial anxiety over this issue has grown into a fixation that you cannot shake off. From reading your posts on this thread, it sounds like me when I get into a panic/anxious state of mind and no amount of reassurance is going to help you.

I'm on anti-depressants and made the very difficult decision to keep taking them while pg. I'm obviously worried about any potential side effects, but the risks of taking them outweighed those of not taking them. I've just had to put it out of my mind and trust that all will be well. At least with alcohol, I was able to give up as soon as I got my BFP.

Your Dr isn't helping - I would personally get an appointment with a different Dr for a second opinion, and tell them exactly how you feel.

I was drinking (ale, wine, whisky, amarreto sours!) up until I found out I was pregnant (and eating brie and cured meats) - had been pregnant for 2 weeks before I found out. But have read that the baby doesn't use your blood supply until around 6 weeks.

Other things I've worried about is - when my dog has jumped up on my stomach, or when I've tripped over something quite awkwardly, or accidentally hitting myself in the stomach with a dumbell (yes, it happened!). But you must realise that your baby is more resilient than you think and the fact that you've identified a heartbeat is a great sign that all is developing well.

I really hope you find the peace of mind you so obviously want, but trust all of us who have posted on here when we say that your alcohol consumption at the beginning will have no bearing on the future health of your baby.

Remember that we're here for you whatever your decision and will gladly hold your hand thanks

tsmith02162013 Sun 03-Mar-13 23:59:36

Thank you, SeriousStuff! I know I am fixated on this issue. The doctor I spoke to was a perinatal expert, and I have really taken his "concerns" to heart.

I don't mean to be unfair to anyone by mentioning termination. However, when I tried to raise my concerns, a lot of women say "there is nothing you can do about the drinking now, just focus on having a healthy pregnancy going forward." But there is something that I can do- I can decide whether the heavy, heavy drinking created a risk that I cannot live with.

My GP did not think that the drinking (the two bottles of wine in one night at 4 weeks post my period) was enough to create a "shock," but I was referred to the perinatal consultant so I could get more information and to, hopefully, calm my concerns. It was that doctor who told me that the risk could not be quantified, that there was no way to evaluate the damage I had done, etc. He did indicate that there was a chance that the baby would be okay, but he was not enthusiastic.

I am working with a counselor who has told me that I have anxiety, that I have probably had anxiety issues my whole life, and that the unplanned pregnancy and the issue with the heavy drinking has just taken it all to a whole new level.

I am sorry if I have frustrated anyone, but I kept thinking "if I find one woman, one more woman, who drank as heavily as I did before she knew, I can stop worrying about this and I can start focusing on the future." Maybe I was wrong.

MajaBiene Mon 04-Mar-13 00:03:19

Well, now from this thread you have heard from women who drank as heavily as you and who had healthy children so I hope you feel reassured.

SeriousStuff Mon 04-Mar-13 00:22:02

I'm glad you're seeking help for the anxiety - I would definitely talk through this with your counsellor as he/she can help you work through what are probably irrational worries.

mylittlepuds Mon 04-Mar-13 07:09:30

The doctor can never never give you 100% assurances.

I hope this helps you somewhat but I suffer extreme anxiety (crisis team stuff initially) and one of my issues is health anxiety.

Anyhow about six months ago I found a lump in my armpit. My anxiety wad on a whole new plane. I was categorically convinced it was cancer - lymphoma - and was consumed day and night. I saw three GPs all who said it was most likely a cyst. I got quite upset with the third one and said that I can't deal with 'most likely'. He said he was sorry but there are no 100% in this life - not good for anxiety sufferers but true. They can't lie to make us feel better. We as anxiety sufferers need a clear cut and dry answer.

Anyhow I insisted on a referral. He was very reluctant and said the only reason he was doing it was anxiety related. So
I could "print the diagnosis off and put it in a frame." (he's lovely).

It was a sebaceous cyst. I've had a scan and consultant examine it. Despite that there are STILL days when I think "it's still there though...it's getting bigger".)

No one is going to be able to categorically tell you the baby will be 100# okay. Your 20 week scan might help but not fully as an anxiety sufferer you'll be onto the next worry. "what if the scan didn't pick the problem up etc."

The likelihood is that the baby is totally fine. No one can say more than that though - even doctors.

mylittlepuds Mon 04-Mar-13 07:12:18

* sorry for typos - opening para shouldn't say 'never never' - just 'never'!

Was not wad...

100% not 100#

tsmith02162013 Tue 05-Mar-13 23:47:51

I saw my counsellor today, who is recommending that I consider taking anti-depressants. She continues to believe that I have pre-existing anxiety issues and that the heavy, heavy drinking before I knew I was pregnant has given me something to fixate on.

I am trying to focus on my mental health and am going to try to stop worrying about whether I should terminate/if the drinking two bottles of wine at once was too much for a few days. As many of you have said, I should stop being so harsh on myself, and I am going to try that for a bit.

I have been so tormented by this "quest" to find any woman who drank as much as I did at 4 weeks since her last cycle. I kept thinking that if one woman were out there who had a healthy child, I could stop worrying. Clearly, the issues are bigger than that.

MajaBiene Tue 05-Mar-13 23:51:22

But you have seen there are women that drank that much on this thread and your other one.

tsmith02162013 Wed 06-Mar-13 00:13:42

MajaBiene, I am sorry to disagree, but I have read all of the replies (obsessively, as I told my counsellor), and I have done the math and although many women have been kind enough to share their stories about drinking before they knew, I still had the most to drink (unit per unit) in one night, at 4 weeks from my last cycle.

Two bottles of wine is the equivalent of 18 to 20 units, at 750 ML a bottle (and at the quality that I was drinking). I just do not see a post with more units than that.

FerrisBueller1972 Wed 06-Mar-13 00:38:09

Ok, I found out I was pregnant early February after drinking daily throughout Xmas and new year and in excess of a couple of bottles a Day/night Throw some recreational drugs into the mix and spirits/shots and you get the picture.

Ds is 7, perfectly bright and healthy.

I can't change it but I know what has already been said time and time again on this thread. The foetus was not attached to my blood supply in the early weeks.

You really need to accept that and good luck with your counselling.

Please try to enjoy your pregnancy and forgive yourself. It was not heavy, heavy drinking for one night. Really.

ladymia Wed 06-Mar-13 00:38:53

Is the answer that you want to hear "The situation is hopeless, you have caused damage to this baby"?

Nobody is going to tell you that because at 4 weeks I would say most of us agree you haven't! I have no idea why that doctor told you that and I have a hard time believing it.

Have you thought how you would deal with a 20 weeks scan showing a baby is not absolutely perfect regardless of drinking or not? Or how you would deal with your testing at 12 weeks for DS showing a high risk?

Pregnancy is one huge risk which perhaps you are not yet ready for so maybe it's time to consider these other options you have been exploring. It certainly seems you are more comfortable with aborting than risking having a child with FAS because that is what it comes down to really (this is of course your choice and I do not judge you for it) I think ultimately you should be ready for a baby and all the good and bad that comes with it, the rewards AND the risk. If you are not ready, then you are just not ready.

I would definitely discuss this more with the cousellor because it's very different aborting a baby because you KNOW there are complications rather than aborting a child based on your understanding of a risk that may or may not have complications.

Sorry this post could be seen as offensive but let's not skirt around the issue. It seems you want permission to end this nightmare for yourself.

Have you thought of contacting an expert in the FAS field?

http://www.nofas-uk.org/

Call the NOFAS-UK helpline on 020 8458 5951.

Surely their word should be worth something? This doctor you have seen frankly sounds like an idiot and to just take his word without seeking expert knowledge (and I don't mean posting on Mumsnet) is ridiculous.

I feel my reply will fall on deaf ears though and the only way I could help you is to say "You're right, there is no hope"

AmberLeaf Wed 06-Mar-13 00:57:52

but I have read all of the replies (obsessively, as I told my counsellor), and I have done the math and although many women have been kind enough to share their stories about drinking before they knew, I still had the most to drink (unit per unit) in one night, at 4 weeks from my last cycle

That is not true at all.

Did you see my earlier post?

Over the course of an early evening meal and after me and a friend drank 6 bottles between us. That was 13% alcohol white wine

I was about 4 weeks pregnant

My son is fine

I drank more than you, I had at least 3 bottles. I'm sure there are other examples of that on this thread too.

I know you have anxiety issues and it's good you are getting help with that, but you are ignoring what is being said here.

I expect that is due to your anxiety though, but seriously, your baby will not have been harmed by what you drank that night.

It does seem like you are looking for a reason to terminate though, I thought that when I first read this thread.

I appreciate that an unplanned pregnancy and anxiety are a difficult mix and I hope you get the support you need.

tsmith02162013 Wed 06-Mar-13 02:42:35

I was drinking a cabernet with a higher alcohol content, and I had a beer thrown in as well, which I forgot about until a friend mentioned it. But you are right, AmberLeaf, you may have had the equivalent to what I did. (I did the math of unit per unit before, but I must have gotten off based on the potency of the wine.)

The doctor who was negative about my chances specializes in perinatal development and is well-regarded in his field. I would not just take the word of one doctor, but his word felt like it had more weight, given his background.

This might sound selfish and ridiculous, but mind you, I am seeking counselling-- in my mind, I would see a child that had a genetic abnormality in a different light than a child that I harmed by being a reckless, heavy drinker. What has me so terrified is the idea that I might some day have to tell my child "you are disabled because your mother drank too much alcohol before she knew she was pregnant." If there were something amiss that were not due to alcohol, I could find a way to cope and be the best parent I could be. It is the guilt of me directly harming the child that has me so scared.

I know that might seem contradictory- why would I want to consider terminating? Wouldn't that absolutely harm the child (i.e. it has no chance to exist)? This is exactly why my husband does not want me to terminate the pregnancy, and to be honest, I do not think I really want to either, deep down. I have literally made appointments to have a termination and showed up at the clinic, only to walk away because I could not do it yet.

Clearly this is something I am struggling with. In "real life," I cannot talk about these worries with anyone, least of all my husband, and other than the counsellor, I feel like I am on my own.

That is why I am asking about anti-depressants and pregnancy, if anyone has considered taking them or has taken them. If I am going to care this child, I know that stress and anxiety are not good, and I want to do the best I can to have a healthy pregnancy from here on out.

Beepbeep1 Wed 06-Mar-13 03:04:52

But you didn't know you were pregnant!!! Morally speaking you've done nothing wrong.

I'm no doctor but rationally the worst I think that could have happened was a shock to you body so severe you would have miscarried. Babies don't develop in 24 hours - it's obviously gradual - so anything developmental like FAS is logically speaking out of the question entirely isn't it?

Come on!! Put this in a box and get on with it. I know how horrendous anxiety is but try and think this is not in your hands. As another poster said it's never 100% a baby is going to be healthy - even after they're here it's a risky business.

All you can do is your best. The past is gone and you ain't gonna change it. You had a load to drink but you didn't know.

Beepbeep1 Wed 06-Mar-13 03:06:38

* obviously I meant miscarrying as in the day after!!!! Not now!!!!

Beepbeep1 Wed 06-Mar-13 03:07:18

* and that didn't happen smile

cafecito Wed 06-Mar-13 03:26:38

I work with some FAS research. I really want to drum it into you, that you should not be worried about this. Please. I drank loads with my DC before I realised. I mean, loads. Many people drink without realisign they are pregnant.

This is either you seeking permission to terminate- for some other reason

or

your anxiety. I am no stranger to anxiety disorders or depression.

But the alcohol is not the issue. Please relax about that - your baby, as far as anyone can tell- is healthy right now. This is not about what you drank (which sounds like a lot in one night, yes, but many people will drink a lot night after night after night, before they even realise). please relax about that.

do you want this baby?

cafecito Wed 06-Mar-13 03:30:44

you can't erase a human being, just because you want to go back to the beginning and do things better. do you think you will feel better for doing that? that's taking your anxiety and perfectionistic drive to a whole unreasonable level.

sorry to sound harsh- but that's just not okay. if you want a baby, you have this baby. if you're not okay with being pregnant- then don't apportion your anxiety onto the drink matter, it's displacing it away from what you really need to be addressing right now

detoxlatte Wed 06-Mar-13 03:34:30

OP, it is clear from your posts that this is about your anxieties.

You have heard on this thread the very thing you are seeking to hear, and yet you continue to seek reassurance.

Now the anxieties are moving over to taking ADs while pg.

Anxiety can be crippling, I know that from experience.

However, parenthood is, imho, full of anxieties from the outset. There is ALWAYS something to worry about.

I don't say that to worry you more, actually quite the opposite. If you are to continue, perhaps it may help to try to separate the anxious feelings you have from the things you are anxious about ie. acknowledge your anxieties as needing something to hone in on, but try to assess that thing without the anxiety and with a cool head (your posts are exceptionally (for MN at least!) considered, rational and logical). To me it is clear from your posts that, intellectually, you know what the position is. However your anxiety is preventing you from acting upon that knowledge, and as a consequence you are stuck (or were).

Good luck, I wish you strength in this.

crazyhead Wed 06-Mar-13 09:29:01

Hi OP

Firstly, my sympathies. I too am newly pregnant and drank before I realised, so I do get your anxiety as I also feel anxious about it. I think that if a specialist was off with me about it, I’d feel even more anxious.

I wonder if you are not going to get what you need from asking about how much other people drunk and what happened, because you need to know what to do personally.

For what it is worth, the time you drank (2 weeks post fertilisation) is probably going to be OK, because this stage is pre-embryonic – from what I understand the blastocyst that becomes your baby is a group of undifferentiated cells and there isn’t much evidence that at this stage, it is susceptible to alcohol. But I daresay because timing wise you were at the end of this stage, your perinatal specialist wasn’t prepared to give you an all clear.

Also, think about what the perinatal specialist’s reaction to you might actually mean. That doctor probably sees woman all day going through dreadful pregnancy problems not of their making, and people like you (and it also could be me - I’m not being pompous!) come along and say that they pointlessly endangered their pregnancy by boozing. He may have thought it was fair enough to make you sweat a bit. He wouldn’t have realised quite how you’d react!

Could you now go back to that or another doctor and get a handle on what your actual statistical chances of birth defects are? I think that this doctor’s reaction has made you feel it is 50/50 or something, and I don’t think that is accurate.

I’ve heard the figure before that of women who drink in pregnancy, including some serious alcoholics, 3 in 1000 have children with FAS (borne out by the many good news stories on this thread I guess). If you had a 3 in 1000 chance of Down syndrome at your 12 week scan, you wouldn’t even qualify for further testing. Your chance of a child developing autism might be a bit higher than that. So we’re quite possibly talking about a tiny chance – and you’re taking a chance of plenty of other things by just having a baby.

Like I say – I do really understand how you feel, but I think that to look at this logically you need a better grasp of the actual level of risk.

pyjamalover Wed 06-Mar-13 10:56:27

I read a quote on MN when i was pregnant:

You start worrying the day you find out you're pregnant, and you stop worrying the day your heart stops.

it's so true! And it sounds like you're a bit of a worrier anyway. We will worry about the booze, then about all the pregnancy complications, then about the birth, then when the babys out we worry about their feeding, development, health, all the terrible (rare) things that might happen to them. When they're older we can worry about drugs, pregnancy etc.

I think in order to stay sane as mothers we have to try and put our worry out of our minds, at least a bit, or we'd never enjoy the daily miracles of having a child.

Hope you make a decision you're comfortable with, and try to accept that a bit of worrying is normal.

BabyRoger Wed 06-Mar-13 11:13:46

Before I knew I was pregnant with my first baby I drank LOADS. I was on holiday with DH for 2 weeks and I really went to town on that holiday. 2 bottles of wine in a night more than once easily. My mum had just died and I was going overboard on the drinking.

We got back from holiday and 2 days later went away for the weekend in a big group. Loads more drinking with my friends. Shots, all sorts.

When we got back from that we were saying, we really need to have a dry month. That was ridiculous drinking. I found out I was pregnant about 4 days after that (I was 6 weeks).

My DD was absolutely fine. 7lbs 9oz. I told the midwife at booking in that I had been drinking loads before I knew. She didn't bat an eyelid, just said so had she! She also mentioned that there was no placenta at that point.

I think your description of 2 bottles of wine as "extreme" is a bit, well extreme. I know it's not ideal but in my opinion, it is not extreme.

something2say Wed 06-Mar-13 12:28:48

I think, pg or not, sort out the anxiety. Really....

Teaandflapjacks Wed 06-Mar-13 16:53:17

tsmith - i do feel sorry for you, you seem to be going through a really tough time. I really would, as other posters have kindly suggested, call the FAS team and speak to an expert, and also book yourself in with a female obs. Get a referral from your GP to see one if necc (I live in germany so no clue how the system works in blighty - assume you are based in UK). Also, think about getting your hormones tested properly - your thyroid, your TPO level (hashimotos - look on wikipedia). Hormones can have a HUGE impact - so make a fuss, and insist on getting them checked (and just your thyroid will not tell you about other things - i.e. you need TPO level for hashimotos). If hormones are not the route, then see your obs. to discuss other options.

The thing is, you have this negative pattern in your head, and you hoped a doctor could tell you it doesn't matter, but they can never say 'never' to you. And you want to know why? Because they could get sued. They could be struck off, lose their jobs - if they guarantee something to you. They can't - blame the ambulance chasing culture, blame what you like, but this is the way our poor doctors and health care professionals must operate now. They can say, there is a small chance etc, a very small chance. They look at the stats and work with these. It is a shame really, as sometimes they would like to say really do not worry - I have two relatives who are doctors, I ask them first and then see the docs. I always get a 'sanitised' view from docs, my relatives give me warts and all - i.e. do not worry (boozing in first 4 weeks of preg), or with carrying heavy loads in preg (what about mothers with children already?), etc etc.

It was my husbands bday before i knew I was preggers, we had been trying for ages, and we decided to stop trying, get through xmas and new years. We had a weekend away - i drank easily a bottle and a half of wine every night over three nights, stuffed myslef full of Pate, brie, parma ham and everything else you shouldn't (very tasty it was too!) , and some mulled wine in the day, every day. Then it was his bday the following weekend - I had two bottles of wine - one of sparkling over the evening, another of red. The following monday I could not stop vomiting, thought I had noro virus, period was two days late - was pregnant. I cried like a baby for about an hour, hugging dog. I then thought 'shit - alcohol!' so looked online - well I found out straight away nothing to worry about as it was an embryo then and not taking my blood. I also checked with docs in family, and my gyn here - all said don't worry. I suspect if I had gone to your expert - he would have told me off too!

xx

Teaandflapjacks Wed 06-Mar-13 16:58:59

p.s. - we had been trying for ages, I had an early miscarrige last year - eat like a saint, thought 'sod it' by mid nov - and fell preg, baby fine now (18 weeks). I personally am convinced me stopping worrying about it, and stopping 'trying' got us pregnant - thank god for the old grape juice in my case!!:-)

TheChaoGoesMu Wed 06-Mar-13 17:33:39

But op, you did find one woman through your last thread who drank far far more than you and went on to have a healthy child. Me. I won't deny I didn't have similar thoughts and feelings to you at the time, but the knowlege that the baby isn't even hooked up to your blood stream so early must provide some reassurance? I wish I had known that first time round.

Saundy Wed 06-Mar-13 17:40:05

I'm sorry you're struggling so much and don't seem to be finding the reassurance you wanted in this thread.

I found out on Saturday (whilst nursing a hangover to my shame) and so was very interested in your thread.

I had taken a negative test a few days earlier which was a green light to drink and I went for it. 2 bottles of wine - before I went out, then numerous cocktails & vodka redbulls whilst out, then drank the alcohol cupboard dry when I got in (whisky, lager, tequila). I WISH I 'd stopped at 2 bottles of wine. & that's only what I drank that night (there was an Oscars night drinking game incident also).

I was looking for peoples experiences on your thread to reassure me and that's exactly what I found. I'm not worrying about it, there's no point. A ton of people here have said again and again its to early for the baby to be tapping in to your blood stream and that's good enough for me. There are so many positive stories and it was so early.

As I said I was looking for reassurance and I found it, maybe you've been looking for something else and should reread it with a more open mind.

I wanted to do everything perfectly, had been taking folic acid for months and being careful(ish) with what I ate. I was gutted. But there's no point in that, whats important is whats going on when the baby is all attached (or whatever they do). I'm eating uber well (thank you guilt) and its what we do now that will have the big impact.

On a separate note a disabled person is still a person and I hope one day we look back on a culture of this reason to abort with the same same shock that we do in the case of it being on grounds of gender. I understand the fear but I've never met a disabled person who I felt should not have been born.

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Wed 06-Mar-13 17:51:52

Right. I must have been at the same stage as you when I went on my stepmothers hen party. I drank at LEAST half a dozen double vodkas, a couple of cocktails and finished with several tequila slammers! I was so drunk they carried me home. after prising me off of the stripper. I was almost hysterical when I found out I was pregnant, but the doctor was fine about it. You and the baby arent properly connected at that stage. DS is now 17 and fine. Imagine how many women there are out there who go out and get hammered every week even when they are pregnant! If you aren't sure, come to Colchester on a Friday night and see for yourself!

Saundy Wed 06-Mar-13 18:23:31

I find thinking about Courtney Loves successful pregnancy also helps!

snickersnacker Wed 06-Mar-13 18:25:44

OP, a thought; some of your turns of phrase sound American (e.g. 'math', spelling of 'counselor') - are you in the US? If so, I think this might explain your perinatal consultant's reluctance to reassure you. Without wishing to stereotype, I think that many consultants in the UK are less sensitive to the possibility of litigation in response to over-confident (and ultimately incorrect) predictions and diagnoses.

I wish you the best of luck in your ultimate decision.

Teaandflapjacks Wed 06-Mar-13 20:33:49

snickersnacker - really couldn't have said it better myself. I am sure the reluctance has much to do with suing/litigation culture, which has unfortunately come over to the UK in some places in the healthcare system too.....

tsmith02162013 Thu 07-Mar-13 16:34:51

I woke up this morning and for the first time thought "I am over reacting."

The more I think about it, I believe the doctor (the specialist that I spoke with about the heavy drinking before I knew I was pregnant) meant to say was that there is not a lot of data out there about binge drinking before a woman knows she is pregnant. That is what he meant by an "un-quantifiable risk." There is no study that says "it doubles the chances of a birth defect" or "it will absolutely result in a birth defect."

Taking anti-depressants during pregnancy seems extreme, but the fact that my counsellor would raise the idea with me reflects that I have been at the extreme edge of anxiety over this. And it sounds like the reality is that the baby is probably fine (despite the drinking, at least).

I am going to focus on the idea that we are, more probably than not, fine. Or at least I will try to do so.

Thank you again for your patience, your kind words, your encouragement and (when appropriate) your frankness.

TheChaoGoesMu Thu 07-Mar-13 16:53:36

Yay. I'm so pleased for you op.
And can I say congratulations?
Fab news.

smile I'm really pleased you're feeling a bit calmer tsmith.

Best of luck with the pregnancy

Teaandflapjacks Thu 07-Mar-13 21:40:34

tsmith - good for you - and don't be so hard on yourself hon - you have lots of strong hormones swirling about, it would make even the most rational person freak out at times. once you get to 17 weeks your hormones should bed down a bit more - at least in my case.

Anti-depressants definitely have their place, and have helped so many, many people, but they are also not always necessary, a bit of a knee jerk, when therapy incl. CBT and gentle exercise, such as walking 30 mins each day and even pet therapy, such as a dog or cat etc would work really well.

Often psych. treat anti depressants as a platform, and use them for a short period, and then tail them off, using therapy and how you respond to that as the measure. But this is if you can get in with a psyc. in the first place. Doctors (GP's) will follow guidelines which says keep on then for 6 months - now anyone can see the that the outcome of drugs, no therapy v's a tailored drugs and therapy would be different.

I suspect it is a cumulation of shock, worry, what someone in a medical position said (see my prev. comments) and shed loads of new hormones on top of pre existing negative thought pattern behaviour - this isn't really all that bad. You are having therapy to deal with neg. thought patterns (ask about CBT!)- try getting out and walking, or doing pregnancy yoga (wonderful!!!). Don't be so hard on yourself. You, and your little poppet will be fine xx

Simian0 Thu 07-Mar-13 22:19:14

I'm sorry to read, and see, that you have anxiety/mental health issues. I would urge you to continue seeing your counsellor throughout so that you're best prepared for when your baby arrives. If this issue has managed to cause you so much stress, I would hazard a guess that you will need help to cope with whatever the future throws at you also.

If its super important to you to know of another woman who drank the equivalent/more than you before knowing she was pregnant then I can assist with that. I was around 6 weeks when I found out. I had just returned from a work trip to the US where I had been out drinking/smoking every night. The previous week I had had 3 nights out where one night I had drunk the equivalent of 2.5 bottles of red wine, some beer and a digestif. Prior to that it would have been the same pretty much every week. I'm into week 33 now and pregnancy is going swimmingly. I still have the odd glass of wine now and then ,although i dont often fancy it in honesty. All of my friends were in a similar boat who've had kids. One didn't know she was pregnant until 3 months and found out on holiday the morning after a particularly heavy drinking session. Her wee boy is perfectly fine/healthy 5 yr old now.

There has been a lot of extremely helpful advice on this thread so far, and I think you really need to pay attention to it, otherwise don't ask the question. Choose to take the advice and move on with your pregnancy (keeping up with the counselling also), or don't. It's your decision ultimately, but after having asked for the advice, take the time to digest it, and take the time to make an informed decision.

Good luck with everything.

tsmith02162013 Thu 07-Mar-13 22:35:18

Just to clarify, I am absolutely continuing with counselling through the duration of the pregnancy (and beyond). I just want to avoid anti-depressants, based on what I have heard (from the doctor, and in general, from other women who have been through this).

If I cannot cope and absolutely have to have medical intervention in the form of anti-depressants, that would be another matter entirely. I have been trying to cope with the anxiety (the super pregnancy/drinking before I knew I was pregnant anxiety) for a month now, and I have only had two counselling sessions. It may not feel pre-mature to the counsellor to suggest the anti-depressants, but it feels like it is a big jump, and one too soon for me.

tsmith02162013 Thu 07-Mar-13 22:53:48

And just when I thought I was feeling better....I got an anonymous message from another forum by someone who says that a friend who drank until she was 8 weeks pregnant. Her child has a cleft palette, other deformities, and was diagnosed with foetal alcohol syndrome, in light of his delayed growth, speech and lack of mental acuity.

If it can happen to this woman, am I really so crazy to think that it will happen to me? Yes, I only drank up until 4 weeks and a few days after my last period, but I drank A LOT. The now infamous 2 bottles of wine and a beer that everyone is sick of hearing about.

Teaandflapjacks Thu 07-Mar-13 23:27:49

poor you - but the point is hon that was 8 week pregnant. you had a heavy night - at 4 weeks. the baby is in its embyronic phase then - 6-8 weeks is a different phase in a babys development. do look on google and see if you need clarification. xx

ladymia Thu 07-Mar-13 23:32:16

massive difference between a 4 weeks and 8 weeks. google it.

There are a lot of trolls on the internet tsmith, it's not unlikely the person who pmed you is just a vicious troll trying to inflict pain.

Even if it is true, there is a huge difference between 8 weeks and 4 weeks, namely the blood supply/placenta issue we mentioned before.

And thirdly, FAS is a tricky diagnosis. It shares symptoms with other LDs abd SNs and it can be hard to distinguish between a problem which may have occured anyway and one caused by alcohol consumption. There is often no way of knowing if the baby would have been NT otherwise or whether alcohol was the single cause of delay, or even if alcohol exacerbated an existing genetic problem.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 08-Mar-13 00:21:54

Big difference between 4 and 8 weeks op. At 4 weeks the baby isnt hooked up to your blood stream. Remember this.

mamasr Fri 08-Mar-13 00:33:45

I found out very late about my pregnancy and I drank throughout incl. a two week all inclusive cruise (so much alcohol drank) and a memorial service for a friend at which many shots (tequila etc) and drinks were had by all.. obviously as soon as I found out I completely stopped drinking and it did worry me when I found out but whatever is meant to be, is meant to be. I gave birth to healthy boy and I wouldn't change it for the world. Really hope that helps you x

tsmith02162013 Fri 08-Mar-13 00:36:52

Sorry to have gotten upset all over again. That anonymous message just hit me right where I was most vulnerable. Thank you again for continuing to be kind to me.

cafecito Fri 08-Mar-13 00:42:11

tsmith- I advocate people not to drink in pregnancy. But I drank in pregnancy (and many many women do) if you came to me in a clinic, I would think you were marvellous for only drinking until 4 weeks. The risk is so minimal. I am going to be a bit out there, and say I really want you to have this baby- they will be perfect, I think you will be a wonderful caring mum and I think you need to continue with counselling at least weekly, and try keeping a diary of your feelings as well.

chloeb2002 Fri 08-Mar-13 01:43:01

I guess I can't add much to what has been said allready. Except as a medic fetal alcohol syndrome affects bibs of mums who continue to drink, in excess .. which is not a known or quantifiable amount... Late into pregnancy. It is not associated with first trimester consumption.
I was also guilty this pregnancy of drinking a lot for me at about 5 weeks pg.. I did a neg test like many and thought hey ho.. why not have a few! Your gp needs to be supportive of you and failing that.. find another one please.
Sounds like your counselor has there head well screwed on. Hang in there. Annon posters should wind there necks in. Babies can of course be born with many different issues. My # 2 ds has several ... I could do very little different. Sometimes s#it happens. I suspect two bottles of wine will pale into insignificance over the next few months.

crazycatlady82 Fri 08-Mar-13 01:50:50

Hi there,

I have read most of the posts but not all as there are just so many and I am reading on my phone.

Anyway, a couple of things; firstly I unashamedly admit I love a drink. So started reading round the subject as I am also naturally anxious. I now take 5mg of folic acid as if I was an alcoholic (which I'm not) that is what would be given to alcoholic mothers.

I used a medical profession's book, not just a layman pregnancy book.

Secondly the overflowing cortisol from your anxiety may be more damaging.

Please note I am a tad over anxious, neurotic etc - all this and I am still in the tww.

Having read these posts I am considering relaxing my 'no drinking until a positive' not to excess but it may be my last chance!

Thanks all for previous calming posts about happy and healthy children from mothers who weren't t-total pre-conception

xxx

cafecito Fri 08-Mar-13 02:09:30

crazycat, I would still say it's advisable not to drink if you are ttc- BUT for those who already have or did and then got a BFP, then stopped - well, that's fine and that's what most people do and is totally normal.

crazycatlady82 Fri 08-Mar-13 02:28:19

T-Smith try to put things in perspective. If it wasn't the mother herself who got in touch how do you know the 'ins and outs' of the situation.

Someone had asked if you were American. If you are I do think attitudes to alcohol are different there. Here we regularly self medicate with alcohol and there it is socially acceptable to self medicate with anti-depressants.

I am pro animal therapy. My cats are very soothing.

On a personal note I was on Prozac for 2 1/2 years and stopped when I saw my GP re TTC.

I had what I now realise was a breakdown of sorts last year resulting in me not just hitting self destruct but jumping on it repeatedly until the button was broken. I had anxiety, depression and just wanted to hurt me and push away anyone close. Thank god my husband stuck with me throughout and we are now very close and stronger for it.

The reason I am telling you is that I understand how you can become engulfed in anxiety and lack of self confidence because if your baby is unhealthy you will perceive it to be your fault.

Do you consider the father's health. Was he a t-total, healthy eating regular exerciser?

Then lastly there is a risk in every pregnancy which women put to the back of their minds, then just hope and pray for the best.

Another consideration may be what if you were unable to conceive again after termination. I am not anti-abortion as in some cases it may be justified but I think in yours it's trivial.

I can't help but feel its your own self loathing, self attack that drives your fear for your baby.

<flooding you with lots of positive and happy thoughts>

Saundy Fri 08-Mar-13 06:49:43

Yes I have to second the advice, your (our) concern is drinking at 4 weeks when the baby is still self sufficient. Some second hand story about someone who drank twice as far into her pregnancy really isn't relevant (and sounds suspiciously malicious to me anyway).

Just get back to your rational place & stop beating yourself up. You've had time since to get your system good and healthy for the plug-in (couldn't think of a better word) so focus on that.

I'm sure like me the second you found out, it was game on and everything by the book. We're not bad people, we found out in time, its ok to be happy smile

MarkGruffalohohoho Fri 08-Mar-13 06:58:09

Hey there

My DC1 was a direct result of a drunken night with my DP - I then had a binge drinking session a couple of weeks later - then found out I was pregnant and only then started with the Pregnacare vitamins.

She is fine.

DC2 and soon to be DC3 not result of drinking but nor planned therefore again no vitamins taken until I knew.

All three - touch wood - are fine.

I have taught a child with foetal alcoholic syndrome but her mum was a hardcore alcoholic - talking hitting a bottle of scotch per day throughout and schlerosis etc

I would have thought you would be fine OP.

tsmith02162013 Fri 08-Mar-13 11:33:55

Thanks again, everyone. I could not believe that someone would message me like that, to tell me to "not kid myself" about the risks of drinking before I knew, for my baby. I feel more and more like this person may have been just trying to upset me, and he/she almost succeeded.

I have another counselling session on Monday, which should be helpful.

LemonPeculiarJones Fri 08-Mar-13 11:47:01

OP that anonymous poster only contacted you in order to scare you. They could have added a post to this thread but chose not to - to do more damage. If they had added their thoughts here they would have been shot down. God knows what motivates these people angry

Fuck that random doom-sayer! Stay with your own hard-won level-headedness about this.

Congratulations on your pregnancy. All will be well (my story about drinking before I knew I was pg is somewhere up thread with all the others! smile ).

sadielillian413 Sat 09-Mar-13 01:13:54

this may or may not help you... ive read through your posts and comments.. im now 36+4.. lying awake at gone 1am because my little toerag is kicking the wind out of me!! i didnt find out i was pg till 8weeks.+2. ..right up until that point i drank EVERYNIGHt.. i was a student.. living above a pub.. the weekend before i found out my and my partner drank litre of jack daniels. my darling little girl hasnt raised any concerns... shes moving and growing as she should be.. smile and hopefully... will come on time.. because im dying to meet her!!
good luck.. i hope this is of some reassurance..xxx

TheCatInTheHairnet Sat 09-Mar-13 01:36:43

I got knocked up at University and didn't find out until 20 weeks. I drank like a fish and smoked like a trooper. I gave birth to a large baby boy who is now 16. He's intelligent, courteous and, occasionally, a pita! Just like every other 16 year old!

At this early stage, I really wouldn't worry.

Zavi Sat 09-Mar-13 01:39:32

tsmith your anxiety sounds generalised to me (because you do not appear to have not been reassured by all of the posts that have gone before.)

The thing is, lots of things can, and do, go wrong in pregnancy and child-birth. That's part and parcel of it I'm afraid. You need to toughen up a bit!

It is perfectly natural for you to feel worried about all sorts of things whilst your pregnant.

But your worrying won't in any way change, or improve, outcomes.

If you weren't obsessing worrying about the potential affects of alcohol, you would probably be worrying about something else.

Motherhood is one long worry actually. It never stops!

Hopefully your counsellor will teach you strategies for general anxiety management. You'll need them!

Skyebluesapphire Sat 09-Mar-13 02:00:27

Are you a alcoholic, were you drinking two bottles of wine a day? From what you say it was a couple of binge drinking sessions not all day every day.

Everybody has told you to chill out and stop worrying about it.
Please do that or you are going to drive yourself insane xx

tsmith02162013 Sat 09-Mar-13 13:52:46

I started looking for stories from women who drank before they knew they were pregnant because I felt lost and wondered if terminating the pregnancy would be the appropriate choice. The doctor said essentially that he could not quantify the risk of the binge drinking (i.e. the night of 2 bottles of wine plus) because there are not sufficient studies. I just wanted to know more, even if it meant making myself vulnerable and asking strangers.

As I've been looking for true stories online, my husband and I have continued to discuss the pregnancy and the baby. He is very opposed to terminating the pregnancy unless there is a clear risk to the baby's future health and/or to my health. And I've started to "bond" with the baby-to-be at this point. I had a sonogram this week, and he/she is growing right on schedule, with a healthy heart rate.

I know this is not exactly scientific, but since "anonymous" bombed me with the story about her friend who drank until 8 weeks and had a baby with fetal alcohol syndrome, I am just wondering--

Has anyone ever heard of someone, anyone who drank (even heavily) until 4 weeks into a pregnancy and had a child with fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects?

I am not looking for a reason to be scared, but I have heard good stories from women who drank (a few who drank as much as I did) and were lucky. I am just trying to find out if anyone was not so lucky. My decision is made at this point, but I feel like I still need that last piece.

And yes, I have counselling on Monday. I suspect that I will be encouraged soon by the counsellor to stop posting messages online, as this may or may not be helpful in curtailing my anxiety. (There are times that I belive it is helping, though.)

catlady1 Sat 09-Mar-13 14:06:08

The doctor can't tell you for certain that nothing will go wrong with your pregnancy - no doctor can tell any woman that nothing will go wrong with her pregnancy. It's just the way it is, there are no guarantees and if doctors went around making promises like that they would end up in a lot of trouble.

Drinking until four weeks pregnant and having a healthy baby is not just down to "luck" any more than not drinking at all and having a healthy baby is - the overwhelming odds are that baby will be fine in both situations. And drinking two bottles of wine once or twice is not a drinking problem, lots and lots of women habitually drink more than that, as has been testified to on this thread and the one before it.

I have never heard of anyone who drank until four weeks of pregnancy and then stopped, even alcoholics and seriously heavy drinkers, who went on to have a child with FAS. The person who messaged you probably made up the story to scare you in all likelihood, although even if she didn't, four weeks pregnant and eight weeks pregnant are very different stages.

Please, please try to stop worrying. By all means educate yourself, but you need to trust and accept the things you are reading, or what's the point? Continue with your counselling and be kind to yourself, your husband and your precious baby!

ExpatAl Sat 09-Mar-13 14:17:51

OP, my feeling is that if the anon messager really wanted to inform and help you he/she would have offered to answer any question etc. I think you can dismiss it as malicious.
I am against drinking in pregnancy but have never heard of of anyone drinking until 4 weeks who has had problems apart from feeling pretty rough! OP, most people have no idea until 4/5/6 weeks so just imagine what they all get up to! My sister was drinking brandy/champagne cocktails at my hen party and boy that was a boozy long weekend - puts your 2 bottles of wine in the shade. She found out later she was just over 5 weeks then and my nephew is tall, gorgeous and very very bright.

ExpatAl Sat 09-Mar-13 14:24:20

I would agree with your counsellor. Online chatting is fine if you're not basing a very important decision on the random musings of anonymous people.

cafecito Sun 10-Mar-13 01:38:34

tsmith- you're asking for a response to a question you have posed that can only be answered by the select few who you seek. so if you hear nothing - you still won't be reassured, you will still be seeking. Just step back and see your counsellor. bond with your baby, learn some strategies for anxiety management. No doctor can ever reassure anyone 100%, it would be unethical professionally to do so. You were given a textbook reply to a question of risk in pregnancy, the same reply would be given to everyone.

LoopDeLoops Sun 10-Mar-13 01:47:41

I drank more than you. Easily. Knowing that is not going to help you. To be frank, you are being ridiculous - it is your mind making this into a big issue when one doesn't really exist.

And anyway, is it better to 'risk' having a baby with a (perfectly treatable) cleft palette and possible FAS or to kill that baby? No brainer to me.

detoxlatte Sun 10-Mar-13 08:14:21

OP, you are looking for certainties which do not exist. I really do think that you need to step away from Internet chat.

If your decision is made, why do you need to know if there is anyone out in the world who drank before 4 weeks and had a baby impacted by it? If the answer is yes, what are you going to do?

You have been inundated with information about placental growth and shared blood supplies, but you are ignoring it all. Why, why do you seem so determined to self-sabotage? Why are you flagellating yourself like this?

You really need to hold onto the fact that there are no guarantees about anything in life, but the chances seem to be very, very high that everything is fine. Frankly, even if you were teetotal this would be the case. Just relax, and move on.

tsmith02162013 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:08:20

I have beene quite sick (physically) over the last week, which has probably made it that much more difficult for me to relax and move on. I am going back to the GP because this feels much more like flu (with no fever, thankfully).

I am going to have to stop chatting about this question of drinking before I knew I was pregnant, but I guess I just wanted to have a full supply of stories (good and bad, in some cases), to get me through the next few months.

To be perfectly frank, if I could have just one day when I felt like myself (my old self, before I knew I was pregnant), I think it would do me a world of good. But between the initial fear/anxiety and now being physically ill, I have not yet had that moment of "I feel 'normal,' I can handle this."

AmberLeaf Sun 10-Mar-13 19:12:48

Feeling sick is a good sign of a healthy pregnancy!

All sounds well.

All the best tsmith.

ladymia Sun 10-Mar-13 19:37:55

Have you started your prenatal care yet? Taking folic acid etc etc. Your 12 week scan should be coming up soon? Hopefully that will make the pregnancy more real to you and you will be able to get a bit excited about it.

discotequewreck Sun 10-Mar-13 20:51:46

OP, I am a nurse. I have nursed many alcoholics. 2 bottles of wine and a beer is not heavy, heavy drinking. You are being too hard on yourself and stuck in negative thought patterns because of anxiety.

I had a spell of anxiety when I was doing my exams and your posts remind me of how I got fixated on a 'worry', to the point of obsession. I convinced myself I had HIV because I had had unprotected sex once on holiday a few years earlier.

I suppose yes it was possible but hugely unlikely. I trawled the internet for symptoms and convinced myself every niggle I had was a sign of HIV. I couldn't sleep, I went to the doctor several times with fear I had fungal infections.

You will be okay OP, you are just struggling with anxiety and obsessive thoughts. I remember wanting to find as many people I could who had had unprotected sex and were fine.

Sometimes this is linked to feelings of worthlessness or low self esteem. Do you think it was bad or wrong to drink two bottles of wine? You sound like you are punishing yourself. I did, for having unprotected sex, it's almost as if I thought I deserved punishment for such behaviour.

But we are all human. We drink too much, make mistakes. Two bottles of wine and a beer is not this awful heavy drinking or punishable behaviour you think it is. Most people can easily drink that on a merry night, relaxing, having fun.

I hope your anxiety eases OP, you sound a nice, caring person and you will be fine.

tsmith02162013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:24:23

I wrote to another doctor asking for a second opinion. This doctor put my chances of the child having fetal alcohol syndrome from drinking during the first 4 to 4.5 weeks after the last cycle at 30%, based on my drinking habits (a glass or two of wine each day, with binge drinking on the weekend. The two bottles of wine in one night was the most I consumed at any one time though).

The doctor said that if I was drinking 12 drinks per day during the first 4 weeks, my chances of having a child with fetal alcohol syndrome would be 75%.

I feel like I am getting such conflicting information, which is what makes it hard to keep calm.

cafecito Sun 10-Mar-13 23:45:51

tsmith- your doctor is talking crass nonsense. I can say this as a medic and as I have done some research specifically into FAS. FAS is a spectrum, but there is no way any doctor would quantify that risk in such a way. That's just ridiculous.

cafecito Sun 10-Mar-13 23:51:17

sorry FASD is a spectrum disorder

I have to go now, but I want you to keep calm. I wish you all the best with your pregnancy.

If you choose to terminate, you need to be honest with yourself why you would do that. If you don't want this pregnancy, it's your body - go ahead. But if you want a baby then please do not. Can you imagine how much your mind would go over and over and over the issue of the termination, after the termination? your anxiety now tells me that this is a potential problem you would face - or in fact any woman in such a position faces - so you terminate a healthy pregnancy - how do you feel then? be honest with your reasons for termination.

tsmith02162013 Mon 11-Mar-13 03:21:13

I am no longer contemplating terminating the pregnancy, but I would appreciate a real, honest answer from a medical professional that I can trust. I feel like I cannot get the same answer from any doctor, which makes it all that much more difficult to relax.

cafecito Mon 11-Mar-13 07:20:57

But nobody can quantify the risk accurately. no doctor will tell you it will be fine- aa whole host of things could go wrong. It doesn't just depend on what you drink, but at what point in development this is, possiby other genetic factors too. Nobody can tap in 2 x wine to a calculator and give you a .005% risk, or whatever. It will take another decade to see more sigificant study results. But equally 30% and 75% is really just laughably wrong. The current thinking is the spectrum disorder occurs in around 1-3% of pregnancies.

cafecito Mon 11-Mar-13 07:26:30

there is still such a thing as a wrongul birth lawsuit - no doctor with any sense will risk their career to reassure you it will be fine.

ExpatAl Mon 11-Mar-13 08:43:59

I don't think a doctor would give you those percentages OP. Perhaps you misunderstood. Wishing you all the best.

tsmith02162013 Mon 11-Mar-13 16:17:25

Having a number to put on a risk really isn't that helpful either way. Frankly, I was surprised that the doctor was willing to put a number on the risk of drinking alcohol before you know you are pregnant, as my other doctors were completely unwilling to do so.

Creamtea1 Mon 11-Mar-13 16:37:06

I agree with others that OP needs to step away from Internet research and forums. Also a lot of people have spent time giving advice etc yet the thread is going in circles.

glossyflower Mon 11-Mar-13 17:06:35

I think that we should wind this down now. It's not helpful to OP and just feeding the negativity. The answers OP seek are here, you wanted true stories of women drinking alcohol whilst pregnant and overwhelmingly the end results were positive. As for professional medical opinion only OP can seek that herself.
Can this thread be closed to further comments?

tsmith02162013 Mon 11-Mar-13 22:38:35

I believe I have probably said all that I can on this subject, really. Thanks to everyone who responded with helpful information.

tsmith02162013 Mon 11-Mar-13 22:39:17

One question- if the thread is closed to future comments, will it still be available online? I have found that it helps me calm down when I get stressed about the drinking to come back and read some of the comments on the thread.

LemonPeculiarJones Tue 12-Mar-13 09:07:39

You don't have to get it closed down, tsmith. I think it's reaching its natural conclusion anyway. It's ok just to leave it.

Good luck with mastering your anxieties. And I really think that your baby will be absolutely FINE!

Take care.

cafecito Tue 12-Mar-13 18:30:41

good luck with your pregnancy tsmith - keep up with as much support as you can have in RL, try and have some counselling- maybe CBT if you find it helpful- and try to stop feeding your anxiety smile we can all find horror stories if we look for them. I honestly believe your baby will be healthy and you will be happy. very best wishes to you x

marywonderful Thu 14-Mar-13 01:04:38

So sorry you are so worried. When you have anxiety it can be easy to get hyper focused on a specific worry. It's a valid worry, but you have made it bigger than it should be. Trust the people in your life to help you put this in perspective.

I'm concerned about how an abortion would effect your anxiety. I could see you hyper focusing on the day, the clinic, the operating table, the doctor, the sounds of the machine. Imagine living that over and over again. I know friends who have aborted and this could really mess with your head - especially if you are sensitive to stress.

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