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Refused a 12 week scan

(44 Posts)
Petcat Mon 05-Nov-12 18:56:40

I was wondering is anyone else has been refused a 12 week scan because they have previously had an emergency scan at the EPU?

I am 10+1 and my midwife just phoned to let me know that when she tried to book me in for my 12 week scan the hospital refused because I had emergency scans for a threatened miscarriage at 7+1 and 8+5 weeks. Apparently they can use the scan from 8+5 to date my pregnancy so I won't be getting another scan until at least 20 weeks. My midwife feels the scan is necessary but the health board's policy says no addition scans are allowed if you've had one after 8 weeks.

I have a haematoma and have been experiencing ongoing bleeding since my 6th week and am terrified I am going to lose my baby. A fortnight ago I was told there was a less than 20% chance of my pregnancy proceeding successfully. I have been counting down the days to 12 weeks and really desperately need to know that my baby is growing and that the haematoma is resolving or at least not getting worse. The thought of waiting until after Christmas to know everything's OK is so upsetting.

I understand that the 12 week scan is mainly for dating the pregnancy, but it also marks the milestone where the pregnancy can be considered much safer and you can start telling people you are expecting. We are not well off but I am considering paying for a private scan. However as I have ongoing medical complications I don't really want some random unqualified person telling me bad news if something is actually wrong. Do you think I might be able to appeal to my health board so I can get the scan at my local hospital?

stickybean Mon 05-Nov-12 18:59:12

This sounds very odd and very stressful. Would it be worth asking your GP to push it for you. Or perhaps call the hospital directly and try making your own appointment?

Can you afford a private scan to put your mind at rest?

fengirl1 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:01:26

Contact PALS at the hospital - they should help you sort it out.

stickybean Mon 05-Nov-12 19:01:54

If you are in London and you are able to pay for it yourself, I can highly recommend the fetal medicine centre on Harley st. They are highly qualified and very professional.

jo1958 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:03:10

Are you in the Uk? Aren't they offering a nuchal scan for Down's.? Even if you don't actually want Down's screening you could say you're undecided and decline on the day. 8 weeks is too early for a nuchal and seems quite early for dating

noblegiraffe Mon 05-Nov-12 19:05:07

Yes, this happened to me, I had a scan at 6 weeks due to bleeding and they dated the pregnancy at it, stamped 'dating scan' on the form and then said I wasn't entitled to another one because the pregnancy had been dated. I went private at 12 weeks. This was 3 years ago.

However at this 12 week scan they did a nuchal fold measurement for Downs, which they didn't do in my first pregnancy, so there was another reason for the scan than just dating. If you get a down's test with your 12 week scan is that a reason you can argue you still need it even if the pregnancy has been dated?

Jaffacakeeater Mon 05-Nov-12 19:06:02

It's worth appealing to your GP. If the answer is still no I would definitely go private. Don't assume the person scanning will be unqualified. I had a private scan at 7 weeks to check for multiples and the consultant obstetrician performed the scan. He was great. Go to a proper hospital, not these places that offer 3D stuff etc.

hazeyjane Mon 05-Nov-12 19:06:41

Not all hospitals offer nuchal scans. I would try calling the hospital and explaining your fears. We had private scan with all 3 of our dcs - compared to the one offered by the nhs, they are much more detailed, and in our experience worth the cost.

daisydee43 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:07:30

I had thousands of extra scans including EPU. They must give you a Down's syndrome test at 12 weeks by law I'm sure. It's very important. Go through your community midwife as they can get you fast tracked into hospital. Can you use a different hospital? Tbh they are all useless

noblegiraffe Mon 05-Nov-12 19:09:28

My private scan was done by a proper doctor, who when I googled turned out to be a well-respected expert! I went for the full OSCAR screening and they were very good, the pictures were better than NHS and you got the downs results the same day instead of having to wait a fortnight.

hazeyjane Mon 05-Nov-12 19:10:07

It isn't law to offer a nuchal fold scan. The 12 week scan is officially a dating scan, but some pcts add a nuchal fold scan at the same time. A lot of people don't want the nuchal scan so it isn't, per se, vitally important.

I think appealing to the hospital or gp for a peace of mind scan is important though.

TurkeyDino Mon 05-Nov-12 19:13:49

I went to baby bond at 8 weeks mainly because I wanted to check all was ok before I told work (dc2). I got a midwife sonographer there. She was lovely.

With my first pregnancy I had an epu scan at 11 weeks and my 12 week scan was booked at 16 weeks. So I went to the appointment and the po faced sonographer said it should have been cancelled but would scan me anyway.

I think if you complain enough they'll probably give you a scan, but £80 will stop all of the stress and you can just go private.

Petcat Mon 05-Nov-12 19:16:18

My health board doesn't offer nuchal scanning, just a blood test at 16 weeks so I won't be able to get a scan on that basis.
But I am reassured that people have been able to get private scans from proper doctors - I googled some private scan providers in my area and the shonky websites really put me off. Some of them seem to offer laser lipo and beauty treatments with a bit of antenatal scanning on the side. I don't want to 'peekaboo' at my baby, I just want to know whether they're alive or not.
I will try asking my GP to back up my midwife and see if the hospital will change their mind. I'll let you know how I get on!

Worley Mon 05-Nov-12 19:16:20

every woman should be offered combined screening, which is the nuchal scan and then blood test from your arm. 8+5 is too early too date. complain to pals but you need to hurry. you can have combined screening until 14 weeks. many women turn up for a nuchal scan and then decline. a 4d place may be able to do a nuchal scan unless they have some job I agreement with a pathology lab to complete the blood testing. it is a two part test and the results of the nuchal scan are not meaningful without the blood test. Combined Screening is part if the fasp and you can contact them or google it if you need further information.

Theas18 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:17:01

Daisy dee I love your idea of what must be enshrined in law!!

My local area still does downs screening that doesn't involve nuchal fold testing. It is all still area dependent.

Ireland does no downs testing at all iirc

I'm afraid ladies all scans are medical screening tests, not opportunities o get photos and bond with your baby ( yeah they are that too of course but that secondary to the medical reasons to do them)

Op express you anxieties re the resolving clot etc and you migghtfind someone to push the rules, but they are all very bound by protocols and budgets.

Why not book a lovely reassuring private scan that will give time to put your mind at rest and provide some lovely photos ? It would make a great early Xmas present

hazeyjane Mon 05-Nov-12 19:18:26

maybe ask for a recommendation on mn for a good clinic.

Worley Mon 05-Nov-12 19:22:23

I meant a 4d place may not offer it as blood test is needed too.
I'm not sure wether a baby bonding service would do this. at the moment sonographers soon these types of scan are on dodgy group as they are not legally covered by their professional bodies. it is a great debate at the moment. I work for a 4d company and refuse to give any medical advise as we have no back up from drs and makes my society's legal protection invalid.
anyway.. sorry I'm rambling. but contact the hospital or pals.. maybe even a different midwife or the antenatal app office itself as the situation your describing should not happen.

Oodthunkit Mon 05-Nov-12 19:22:43

petcat are you in Cumbria? I had one a 9 weeks and then nothing until 20weeks. No NT scan here. You've got more of a medical reason than normal though surely?

noblegiraffe Mon 05-Nov-12 19:25:55

My private OSCAR scan was through Spire Healthcare and they have a few hospitals offering scans around the country. Perhaps there's one near you, OP?


stowsettler Mon 05-Nov-12 19:27:12

No nuchal scans in Neath Port Talbot. Had a quad blood test at 16 weeks also.

Petcat Mon 05-Nov-12 19:31:28

Oodthunkit I'm in south Wales, my health board is Cwm Taf. They seem to have a target to reduce the number of antenatal scans offered to pregnant women in the area. It's an area of high deprivation and all health services are stretched to the limit with long waiting times for everything and very overworked staff. I had to wait 4 days when I first started bleeding to have my 'emergency' scan. I thought that was hell, but waiting 10 weeks is going to be worse!

CaseyShraeger Mon 05-Nov-12 19:34:12

Whereabouts are you, petcat? If you can even travel to London I can really recommend the FMC who do more detailed scans than the NHS normally dp and will process your bloods while doing the scan so that you get the full picture at the end of the appointment. One of my last EDD group on here travelled down for the day.

Oodthunkit Mon 05-Nov-12 19:34:43

Can MW not push it through as medical necessity rather than just dating?

CaseyShraeger Mon 05-Nov-12 19:34:47

Cross-posted, sorry...

noblegiraffe Mon 05-Nov-12 19:36:54

What about the Spire Hospital in Cardiff?

MrsJohnDeere Mon 05-Nov-12 19:45:11

I've had 3 x 12 week scans done by Spire (a different one, Harpenden) and strongly recommend them. It costs £180 at my local one but they take all the time you need and you get the nuchal results the next day.

EMS23 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:50:33

Petcat - I went to The Spire in Cardiff for a private Nuchal Fold scan plus bloods at 11weeks pregnant, in March this year.

The clinic is called Innermost Secrets and headed up by Dr Bryan Beattie. I can highly recommend them and AFAIK all his sonographers are qualified but you could ask to see him.
It cost me £180.

I am in North Yorkshire and had a scan at the EPU at 8 + 5 due to pain similar to my previous mc (no bleeding). I was then refused a 12 week scan (mine don't do nuchal scan) and had a very long anxious wait til 20 weeks. We did look at private which were around £140 and 2 hours drive away so we bought a doppler instead. I listened every few days from 11 weeks until I felt movement at about 18 weeks.

DigestivesWithCheese Mon 05-Nov-12 20:09:59

Are you still bleeding? If you are, I can't believe they are not scanning you, that's awful. If you are, you got always exaggerate the amount of blood loss and say you are having severe one sided pain... Or you could say that even if you are not bleeding at all you could say that - say the bleeding is coming and going perhaps...

I know that morally it may not be the correct thing to do, but it should get you a scan & I can understand why you want the reassurance. Good luck.

I had an emergency scan at the weekend as we had no idea on dates (had no idea i was pg until friday) and I was in considerable pain. The scanner said I needed to book a 12 week scan, god help them if they try to take it away from me as I will be under consultant care.

pet cat are you under consultant care? Ring pals

joby21 Mon 05-Nov-12 21:02:25

I had a scan at 8+4 and was initially refused a 12 week scan as the 8 week one was considered a dating scan. I was also declining the nuchal fold scan. However if i wanted the nuchal fold scsn they would have scanned me at 12ish weeks. In the end i had a scan at my 12 week consultant appointment as i was experiencing a lot of right sided abdo pain (with hstory of ectopic pregnancy). I am sure if you are still bleeding they will scan you.

Worley Mon 05-Nov-12 21:11:27

ok.. this is the legislation for England and combined screening fetalanomaly.screening.nhs.uk/public
every women should be offered it since, I think, May 2011 or 12. the nhs site I am at has offered it since 2009 but we were one of the leading sites to implement it prior to it being a government recommendation.

however, the fact that the quadruple test is actually better and picks up more anomalies than the combined screening is not mentioned.(there currently seems to be a witch hunt for downs unfortunately). just a shame it's done later than the NT. we no longer offer the triple test.

mameulah Mon 05-Nov-12 21:29:15

What a nightmare, you must be so frustrated! The only way that I can think you could push for getting the scan is by persuading them your emotional and mental health is being compromised. I guess in order to do that you would need to have a meltdown at the doctors which would be pretty hard if you are the straightforward person you seem to be.

We paid for a private scan and were reassured that all of the people that worked there also worked for the NHS. I hope everything goes well for you.

PipIsOutNow Tue 06-Nov-12 08:48:14

petcat I am in south Wales too and can highly recommend babybond in Cardiff for private scanning. They are very professional and thorough and the sonographer who did my babybond scan actually worked as a sonographer in royal Glamorgan hospital too!!! It's worth every penny to put your mind at rest

Petcat Tue 06-Nov-12 12:57:16

Just a quick update - having spoken to my midwife she advised me to do as Digestives suggested - ring the EPU and ham up the amount of bleeding I have been experiencing. I am still spotting but have not had any more clots, pain or more worrying symptoms this week. I feel really awful having to do this, but considering the system is set up so even the health professionals need to manipulate the truth in order to get their patients treated I don't see how else I can go about it. Paying £180 for a private scan is way beyond my means at the moment.

Anyway I rang the EPU, they were lovely, I didn't really have to lay it on, just explained how anxious I was and they have booked me in for a scan at 9.30 this Friday.

I am hoping all will be well with the baby and I can relax a little. If the haematoma persists, and having heard everyone's positive feedback on clinics in south Wales, I think I will probably try and save up for another private scan in a month's time.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and feedback, much appreciated.

DigestivesWithCheese Tue 06-Nov-12 13:05:04

That's great news Petcat, I hope you get the reassurance you need. I agree that having to lie/exaggerate isn't ideal but, in this situation, you are left with no choice and I really don't think you are the one at fault here.

Great news petcat. Hope it goes well and you get to see your little one ok and your fears are put to rest...

Seems like there is conflicting advice regarding Nuchal tests out there - I've just been reading my leaflets from my booking in appointment, and it certainly reads like its a standard test for all women. The booklet didn't look like it was just aimed at my PCT, but that it was a standard one thats given out alongside the green notes that the midwife filled in. If you are in Manchester/Bolton area I think it must be offered as standard...

Oodthunkit Tue 06-Nov-12 13:50:13

Good on your MW petcat though shit you have to do that to be seen!

BadMissM Sun 06-Jan-13 17:32:34

worsley "ok.. this is the legislation for England and combined screening fetalanomaly.screening.nhs.uk/public
every women should be offered it since, I think, May 2011 or 12. the nhs site I am at has offered it since 2009 but we were one of the leading sites to implement it prior to it being a government recommendation. "

Had 12-week scan Friday, no nuchal. Asked about testing, my PCT definitively still do not do it, legislation or no legislation, and despite the fact that I am 45. Their suggestion? 'You could go to Manchester or Leeds, but we don't refer you, and you'll have to pay'. I was NOT impressed. I had got the information from the NHS website....

SevenReasonsToSmile Sun 06-Jan-13 21:28:31

This thread is two months old, hope the OPs scan was ok though!

MonthlyWishesCameAndWent Sat 26-Jan-13 17:29:53

Petcat, hope everything went ok.

Couldn't believe trusts still didn't offer screening!
Found this document about brining in screening in in Wales, from oct 2012, they just record it as delayed. No date when they will bring it in. Also all departments need extra training equipment etc. plus the lab needs 7 months notice when they do decide. So could be a while before they start testing

lucybrad Sat 26-Jan-13 19:36:38

try 'innermost secrets' at the spire hospital in Cardiff - run by Dr Bryan Beattie - I cant reccommend it enough.

Petcat Sat 26-Jan-13 21:15:46

Thanks monthly and seven - I really should have updated - scan went well, and I am now 22 weeks along. I ended up paying for a private scan at 13 weeks because I was still spotting, worried silly and needed the reassurance. The private CRGW clinic by the Royal Glamorgan charges £75 for an early pregnancy scan - in my case it was worth every penny.

I personally chose not to have the nuchal test done privately because the result wouldn't have had a bearing on whether I'd have continued with my pregnancy. However, it seems very unfair that no one in my area can if they wish to. Let's hope things change sooner rather than later.

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