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Just been offered Whooping Cough jab - please help me decide!(143 Posts)
I'm 36+2 and need to have it by 38 weeks if I want it. So I need to decide and book within a week.
I am concerned this is new so hard to research and make decision based on history of side effects etc.
ATM I am more worried about having it BUT I am in the south west where the outbreak was.
I have never reacted to a jan before but allergic to penicillin and often react v strongly to medication - cant be dealing with that!
I will be having it. These things are subject to incredible scrutiny and at the end of the day the baby's health is paramount.
Also, as I understand it, the vaccine is virtually identical to the one babies get at 8 weeks so it's not some brand new untested thing.
I will have it.
There are no known side effects of the jab, and it has been used on pregnant women in other countries.
In my opinion the risk of there being as-yet undiscovered side effects is much smaller than the risk of the baby having whooping cough and being very very ill.
I had mine today. She explained and showed me that its the same one toddlers have and nothing new. Make sure they write it in your notes so you're all admin'd up.
Also she said its not a single vaccine it's a combined one of Diptheria and tetanus as well.
However I didn't have any pressure to get it so its up to you. My parents said I had W cough when I was young and it was pretty nasty.
It is the SAME vaccine your baby will be getting at 2/3/4 months of age (Repavax).
It is not licenced for use on pregnant women which is simply a legal category, not an indication that it is not safe. Studies involving pregnant women are not often done due to ethical issues.
The main purpose of the vaccine is to protect the newborn before he/she has the first vaccine, hence the timing. Not too early, so maternal antibodies will 'get through' to the baby, not too late, so your body has time to create antibodies.
It is usually a very well tolerated vaccine.
Your penicillin allergy really does not come into it.
And btw, having whooping cough while pregnant is no fun either (personal and professional experience).
I'd have it, but then again I'd pretty much have anything going
Good luck, whatever you decide .
From what i have read they routinely offer this vaccine in the USA, France & Germany,
I think this is why the NHS have made the decision to give this vaccine,
The vaccine that you will be given is not a live vaccine so it's only the antibodies that will cross the placenta.
I actually live in the Netherlands, where they do not offer this vaccine, nor Do they intend to,
I am 29 weeks, so if I lived in the UK I would be having the vaccine,
Today I went to my Dr here and explained the current situation in the UK and requested that I have the vaccine.
For me, the risk of me not having the vaccine and god forbid something happening to my baby because he is too young to have the vaccine himself is too great.
When I was little someone at schools little sister had whooping cough and died. it doesn't jsut happen to "someone else".
I would be first in the queue. The thought of a young baby of mine getting it because I was irrationally nervous about the vaccine would be too much for my conscience to deal with.
Unfortunately 'there are no known side effects' is entirely wrong! It's about trying to balance the risk of side effects which range from the very mild to extremely serious but rare with the risks of pertussis etc.
asking to read the pack insert is useful. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-dtap.pdf
Good luck with your decision!
I think most people find it really hard to assess risk properly.
Take the jab.
That's all I have to say.
If you get it, you'll need antibiotics, which may cause you other medical problems, not the mention the increased risk of infecting your baby. Bear that in mind.
I'm not immune to slapped cheek and the school was referred to the hpa website for guidance when we had an outbreak.
I've found it extremely informative to help me weigh the risks with whooping cough. It's a pretty nasty illness.
The outbreak is recorded in a number of countries and they've been monitoring it for sometime. For me it was a no brainer but we've all got to feel comfortable and confident with our choices.
My ds who is now 13 weeks old is now in approximately week 9 of having whooping cough. It is a truly nasty, terrifying illness. I promise you that you do not want to even risk your child getting it.
I was pregnant just a bit too early to be offered the vaccine but there is not question that I would have/had it.
Oh oldandUnwise I hope your ds is ok.
I am nearly 30 weeks and shall be having the jab tomo (if the nurse has stock still. If not they'll book me a new appointment)
Oldandwise - really sorry to hear that, hope ds is getting much better. What a horrid thing to have to go through at what should be a joyful time
A known side effect of pertussis in a newborn is death.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
I would definitely have the jab.
WC can be fatal to babies and they can't have their jabs until they are 8, 12 and 16 weeks old. I am so glad my 20 week DD is through her jabs as its a nasty illness.
I think the point of the whooping cough vaccine is to protect your baby, not so much to protect you. I'm 35 weeks pregnant and in good health, chances are that even with asthma I would survive a bout of whooping cough (although I might get very sick). The thought of my newborn baby getting whooping cough is terrifying so I'll be going ahead with the vaccination.
There is another thread in pregnancy section too. Maybe reading that would be helpful. I had the jab on Tuesday. As expat says, death is a side effect of WC in newborns. Also a no brainer for me. I was pg when the SF epidemic happened, and this has been a much easier decision to make.
I'll be having it.It's given so the antibodies you make cross the placenta and get to the baby so they are born with immunity.Whooping cough in a new born is very serious, as sadly seen by oldandunwise Can't imagine going through that, and will do anything to avoid that.Really hope your baby is ok
im 20 wks pregnant , and definitly would have it , because my husband nearly died from whopping cough when he was a baby , its too scary to tink about ! oh does anyone know if they are giving this jab in rep of ireland ? crack crack crak 4 wks to go id say you cant wait excited for you , good luck with your decision
I'm getting the WC jab in about 1 hour, I'm also getting the Flu jab a bit later in the day (why they couldn't do them together I've no idea!)
Nervous about having WC jab and more nervous about having them both on same day. This pregnancy has been a long, long time coming, been very difficult and I'm not sure I could do it again. I'm also on Clexane and asprin due to multiple miscarriages beforehand. It's a hard decision between not wanting to take more drugs incase they harm the baby and really wanting them incase by not doing so could harm the baby. On the whole I am putting mine and my baby's health in the hands of the experts and if they say it's okay then that's good enough for me because really what else can I base it on?
OP - I am also allergic to penicillin and have not rected badly to a jab before. I had the WC vaccine yesterday (which I have never had in my life) and it was fine. No side effects or problems at all.
Have it and have it soon (in case you deliver early).
It's the same vaccine your baby will have at 8 weeks and onwards.
I'm biased as I'e seen tiny babies in ITU with pertussis its was horrific and I wasn't even related to the child.... to be that childs parent and know I could have done something- well you can just imagine how you'd feel. If any thing can be done to prevent it or lessen the impact it should be.
A no brainer for me. I'd have it.
Have it and have it soon (in case you deliver early).
It's the same vaccine your baby will have at 8 weeks and onwards.
I'm biased as I'e seen tiny babies in ITU with pertussis its was horrific and I wasn't even related to the child.... to be that childs parent and know I could have done something- well you can just imagine how you'd feel. If any thing can be done to prevent it or lessen the impact it should be.
There has sadly ben complacency re herd immunity and lots of " oh I'm a bit worried about vaccines, if others vaccinate my child wont catch it anyway" feelings and so we have had measles out breaks and now whooping cough.
(BTW I'm not finger pointing at millitant anti vax parents- if you have truly done your own research and come to the conclusion you don't want imms - your choice.... but the apathetic " I don't think we'll bother" makes me so cross!)
Little one is a lot better now, thank you everyone. Over the worst of it and the cough is slowly fading although he has good days and bad days. It's just a matter of time now... He's a happy little fella and has been amazingly stoic.
I forgot to add that although whooping cough is not so severe in adults it is definitely not fun. My husband and I both have it too. Most people don't realise that immunity from the vaccination only lasts for 5 years or so. Having it when in the last stage of pregnancy or just after having a baby is something else you don't want shudder. I was just sitting here thinking about the pure horror that it would be to have to have a c-section with the illness... It doesn't bear thinking about.
I have had whooping cough aged eight despite being jabbed as a baby and it was AWFUL! Apparently, that was the mild form so God help anyone who get's it for real. Thirteen weeks of spending most of the day coughing till I cried.
Get a jab.
Have the jab and read the other thread, lots of good information and advice on there.
I had mine on Monday at 37+2 and the flu jab at the same time, one in each arm. The arm I had the WC vaccine in was most sore it lasted for a couple of days. Only a tiny bit of discomfort in return for peace of mind and protection for my baby.
I received the pre-school booster jab, which I happily took my 3 year old daughter to have back in June. She was fine and I'm fine.
Get on with contacting your GP surgery to make the appt. if you look at the other thread you'll see that many, many women have had trouble getting it before 38 weeks and been disgracefully fobbed off - so don't delay.
The reason that infections such as whooping cough return and evolve is partly because of people who decide not to get vaccines. If people don't vaccinate their child, they assume their child will be safe because everyone else will be vaccinating their children. This should be a society decision, not an individual one. If you do feel it is an individual decision, I see vaccinations like choosing to make your child wear a seatbelt. Even though you're not that likely to have an accident, you might as well take the precaution.
That's why I had mine this week. I want as much immunity as possible to pass on to my baby. No side effects at all, other than a slightly achy arm afterwards.
So sorry to hear what you've been through oldandunwise, and others who've suffered from the disease. My cousin almost died from it as a baby in the 70s and a friend of my mothers in her late 40s caught wc in April/may and has been left with some sort of post viral/bacterial syndrome and is still suffering now.
I can totally understand the worry over choices as I found the whole slapped cheek thing horrid but that is hugely less risk (it was the stress from not knowing which child who snuffled or snotted might have it, knowing it was a big year for it and working with sen and asd children very closely, very mixed messages from medical people plus it kept popping up so the doctor signed me off till out of the 'danger' period for mc.) I tried to reason that if I hadn't had it in 35 years, 11 as a teacher, it was perfectly possible not to get it now, however the way whooping cough goes is that (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong) you are likely to have been exposed from time to time in your life which 'tops up' immunity and considering its quite an outbreak the dangers of catching it are high, and the dangers for baby extreme.
The hangover of the mmr crap still lingers in our psyche. I know parents who've gone through agony about all that and it was total rubbish. (im really restraining my self on that one as it makes me mad!) I feel the same as theas18 re complacency verses informed choices. You do need to feel comfortable. Personally I was delighted to be offered the jab yesterday as I know some women (inc a 38 wk anesthetist at our nct class) have struggled to get it.
By the way, had both, flu arm a little more sore though for a woman at aquanatal this morn it was the wc arm but feel fine and dandy (as one can at 32 wks)
(Though despite what I've said above my honest gut feeling is the same as Londonmrs)
Thank you all so much for taking time to respond. I am still agonising over this but have lots of useful info to think over. I can always rely on mn for rational, considered opinion - we are lucky
What I don't understand is why the baby can be given the antibodies before they are born, but can't have them until after 8 weeks from being born?
What expat said.
As well as all the benefits to the baby, tbh I'll be really happy to have the jab for my own sake too - the idea of having whooping cough while in the late stages of pregnancy, while also being asthmatic....well, it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun either
shazra the antibodies are pre-processed by mummy and passed through the umbilical cord. The vaccination needs the baby to process it and make its own antibodies and they cannot do it themselves until they are bigger and stronger.
Thank you valiumqueen, I have my jab booked on Wednesday. That's the only question I had
Is anyone else concerned that Repevax, the vaccine that is being used, contains polio vaccine? Polio vaccine is not recommended in pregnancy.
The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine widely used in the US and France is DPT - diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus, but not polio. I really want this vaccine but I'm worried about the conflict between two types of medical advice.
Any ideas? Don't know who to ask on this one.
I am not immune to Rubella, despite being vaccinated four times, or Slapped Cheek (no vaccination available anyway). There's a strong possibility DS2 got Slapped Cheek when I was pg (big panic, and we had to be tested at the hospital). He's got various neuro problems and learning difficulties, and that may be a consequence of getting infected in utero.
I always say to mothers reluctant to vaccinate that actually it's not only for the benefit of your children, it's for the benefit of people who physiologically are incapable of building up sufficient immunity as well, especially with things like Rubella. None of us stand alone in this.
peshwari I understand your concerns, and they are hoping to bring out a single vaccine, but at the moment the benefits of having the vaccine with polio in outweigh the risks of not having it. If you are say 20 weeks pg, and have the benefit of time, then wait, but if like me you are near term, that is a risk I am prepared to take. Although it is not recommended in pg (polio) there is no evidence it will do harm. Most things are not recommended in pg as there is no way to ethically test.
ValiumQueen - OK, thanks!! I appreciate the quick response! I'm from the US and we have the DPT vax only. I can wait a few weeks - I'm 25 wks now.
I just had the jab today and it was the pertussis one.
I'm 38 weeks today and I had the jab on Weds.
My GP surgery was in a state of confusion and didn't have it in stock, and it looked as if it was going to be too late for me. Very frustrating. So I had to get a private prescription for it instead. I know various people who've had whooping cough, and I just really wanted to get vaccinated.
Now just have to hope I have time to make lots of lovely antibodies!
I just wanted to correct a couple of inaccuracies above. The vaccine that is being offered isn't the one that babies have at a few months old- it is the one that it is given when the child is 3 years old.
There is also a question over whether any of the antibodies will transfer to the baby- there is no proof either way.
You may find this helpful, as it is the minutes from the meeting where they decided to give the vaccination. I stil haven't made up my mind- but my main worry is that taking the vaccine could mean that it will blunt the affects of the vaccine that the babies have later- which will make them vunerable to whooping cough throughout their childhood. again- they dont know if that will happen- but this paper says that it is possible.
everyone is just thinking about consequences in a very short sighted kind of way and not the long term consequences of the vaccine. As you have all said it is not recommended in pregnancy and they have very limited research done due to ethical issues with using the vaccine in pregnant women. So basically no one know what the long term consequences/side effects maybe? and yet most of you guys are happy to go along with it because of the ever so tiny chance of catching whooping cough and their baby dying?.......im scared!
I'm with your emonslemons. I think it is a horrible decision- and not as clear cut as some are saying.
November in our surgery it is exactly the same vaccine that the baby is given at 8 weeks
Well said boffin mum and so sorry you've been through all that. Best wishes to you and your little boy. I've had 5 slapped cheek tests, all clear but ended up finding the conflicting info, opinion and guilt so stressful to know what to do for the best. (i teach sen, it kept popping up so I was kept away from kids for 3 months but had possible contact again after 21 wks and had very mixed messages about if that was ok or not. In the end they did more tests.) All is fine in my case (well had last test on thurs but feel confident its clear, think the lab just messed up last 'are you immune' test) but an additional combo of being worried about an oddly out of control thyroid affecting baby plus its brain messing side effects made my mind pop. I literally thought that my body was and had the potential to harm my child. I was so delighted to be offered the vac on thurs but utterly shocked others have had so much trouble getting it.
It doesn't look like there will be an mmr type media anti vacc scrum in this case but its clear that previous media crap worries expectant mums, which imo needs to be tackled in order to make sure as many are vaccinated as possible.
Incidently the kids who may have missed out on mmr when all that was going on are, I believe, the current new intake of freshers. There's a small question as to whether we'll see a resurgence in mumps in the next year or two. Bit nervous posting that but trying to make similar point to boffin
I suppose there are two ways to view 'long term consequences.'
I think the point is that its not a small chance this year, its a vastly increased chance, plus not just death, weeks and months of illness and possible other long term consequences. Also, the fewer mums that are susceptible the better for their babies if it doesn't pass over to baby.
Thunderboltkid- if they are giving you the 8 week vaccine then it is the wrong one.
The 2, 3 and 4 month one is a 5 in one vaccine for diphtheria, whooping cough, tetnus, Hib, and polio (http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Whooping-cough/Pages/Prevention.aspx) .
The one at 3 years old is a booster and is a 4 in one vaccine which doesn't include Hib. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/Whooping-cough-vaccination-pregnant.aspx
Clarella- I am hoping to have the vaccine after the baby is born- to avoid any unknown consequences of passing it on through the placenta. I am hoping my husband and I can both get the vaccine to reduce the chances of us getting it and passing it on to the baby.
Hmm, in which case the midwife blatantly got it wrong!
Argh, such a hard decision to make. I'm 39+3 so time is not on my side.
Thunder-I think there is an advantage to your getting it though-even if it is after the baby comes. It depends what sort of lifestyle you have, but i would happily limit the babies exposure to other people until after he has had his own vaccinations.
Then if both my husband and I are vaccinated the chances of him coming into contact with whooping cough should be reduced.
I'm not sure how realistic that is- but we can only do our best.
'I think the point is that its not a small chance this year, its a vastly increased chance, plus not just death, weeks and months of illness and possible other long term consequences. Also, the fewer mums that are susceptible the better for their babies if it doesn't pass over to baby. '
clarella vastly increased compared to what exactly?......has any one really evaluated the evidenceregarding the real chance of catching WC and then the chance of lasting ill health/ death? ........ im not being funny but i really feel theres a kind of fear mongering going on. i mean have people looked at all the other nasty infections out there that babies catch and die from and then compare them to the diseases vaccines are made from.....lets take chicken pox for example......in the us before vaccines were introduced in the 1990's deaths averaged 145 per year now for WC from 2004 to 2010 in the US the total number of deaths was 148 meaning 21 deaths per year.
and just think the US is HUGE compared to the UK......now i wonder what the stats are......im sure nothing vastly more than those!
And of course all of you know that the viruses that are cultered for vaccines are cultured from human diploid cells of two aborted fetuses a male and female from the 60's.......that shocked me.......we still dont have the technology.....we probably never will be able to culture these viruses without human cells.
i know alot of people will feel otherwise but i would rather not have myself injected with aborted fetal anything......
I would rather inject myself with something from an aborted baby from the sixties that would have saved a multitude of babies and could save mine. There are many face creams that have used aborted babies in their production. I think mentioning the original babies is in poor taste personally.
Our DS was 3 weeks when he contracted whooping cough, a lovely present from his grandma whose cough just wouldn't go away! I actually caught it too along with my husband. One night, after the grandma had left, I started to cough the moment I lay down. I coughed so hard I started to urge. It happened the next night too and instantly I knew. I did some research and found that a high % of aged folk carry pertussis in their throats and that the vaccine only really lasts 5 years as it is designed to protect babies. So, beware old dears who cough and cough for months!!! Our son was hospitalised twice. It was horrific and traumatic. He spent his early months coughing himself blue and into unconsciousness. Yes, I would've been vaccinated. Failing that, keep well away from coughing oldies!!!
I have had the vaccine, as have my children. I am hoping to ask if DH can have it too and have already annoyed people by saying I will restrict visitors and anyone who is even slightly snuffly is not welcome until he has had his jags.
I would have it in a flash. We have lots of medics in our family, and they all keep checking that we have all had our WC jabs.
I am not being PFB as it is my third child. I too have had wobbles about the vaccine, and do hear what others say about the unknown risks. I had the same concerns with the SF vaccine, and was convinced DD would be born with a problem, or would die in utero. I had the vaccine at 15 weeks, the day before they advised to give it later in pregnancy, but as I work with high risk clients I had no option really.
Perhaps I am being nieve in trusting the powers that be and their advice. I know there is no guarantee my child will be protected, which is why I am taking the additional precautions, but I would rather regret having it than regret not having it because of the advice. There are no guarantees in life and it is all about making the best decision you can at the time with the information available.
You're not being naive VQ, this is a vaccine that we have happily given to our children when they were babies. It would be hypocritical to suddenly say, hey maybe this is too dangerous for us to get vaccinated as healthy adults. My nephew has already had whooping cough this year and I'm not about to take any chances with my baby's life.
If I were pregnant, I would get it (I will ask for it in the later stages of any future pregnancy) I have 4 kids recovering from whooping cough, I honestly never realised how bad it is, my 7 and 5 year olds have been coughing until they vomit x 12/14 times a day, they have both lost a lot of weight, been unable to take part in their martial arts/gym classes, at one point they were given an inhaler to help, my 16 month old stopped breathing during one coughing fit and had to be taken to hospital, where she did this again and was admitted overnight, we are on our 6th week of it now, the thought of a newborn getting it terrifies me
Just adding that generally I avoid any vaccines/medication during pregnancy, I didnt get the swine flu one while I was preg with ds, and just in general try and avoid any medications for myself or my kids, I would 100% go for this one though....
I am entirely against scaremongering, in fact have had 4 children all without being vaccinated against WC, but why not accept that there is a heightened risk just now, there is a way to reduce that risk and have the vaccine? Yes, the absolute risk of getting WC is small, but if you do it is at least hugely unpleasant and at worst dangerous.
As said upthread, because most of us have not had any experience of all the infectious diseases that used to kill scores of children. And some adults. Diphteria, anyone?
Oh gawd, major distraction going on here: "As said upthread, because most of us have not had any experience of all the infectious diseases that used to kill scores of children, we, as a society, have 'forgotten' how devastating they can be.
What do you mean pacific who is distracting? Genuinely not sure what you mean.
If I were in the UK, I would be having this vaccine. I'm not a big fan of some vaccines, but this one, I would have. I don't "do" flu vaccines - pregnant or otherwise - they're not well-enough tested, IMO.
But Repevax is given to very young babies and DS had that on schedule - I'm happy to take that as appropriate enough safety.
Valium, distraction is here, in RL, I am entirely outnumbered by children, some of which insist on climbing over me/laptop .
The whole vaccination issue IS hugely confusing: I've had the flu vacc for many years, then had it before I knew I was pregnant with DS2 - major fuss ensued. 4 yrs later, pregnant with DS3 and flu/swine flu vaccination was recommended for pregnant women.
I am NOT a scientist (as I've demonstrated with my first post on this thread, getting mixed up with the vaccination for babies and 3 year old ) and I will not pretend to understand all of the issues. There are many different vaccination schedules all over the world and IMO it make sense to go with local policy; if for no other reason than to contribute to herd immunity.
VQ, I think she means she was distracted and missed off the end of the sentence
I understand! And empathise. Children should understand that mumsnetting is a vitally important thing and should not be interrupted unless someone is going blue.
VQ, so true, so true - and why do they keep pestering me and not Daddy??
I am currently in paediatric unit on night 3 with my ds.,we are waiting on test results to check if he has wc. If I had the chance when pregnant to get this, I would have. That is all.
dontlaugh I do hope your wee one is soon home and well
Hi folks - still reading and keeping up with the thread - thank you
Ok so I have ousted this on a bf fb page. Apart from being told homeopathy will protect dd2 from WC they are also saying the Vax may not be effective unless the mother is planning to bf. I will be bf anyway but I was wondering if any of you wise folk had come across anything similar?
crack I have been told bfing doesn't make a jot of difference with this one, but obviously has proven health benefits for mum and child. I will be feeding also.
Crack, I can't believe that to be the case. The given reason you have it between 28 and 38 weeks is to give you time to produce the antibodies yourself and let them cross the placenta, to protect your baby by passive immunity transfer. As it's a booster jab (in most cases) the antibodies you produce should be IgG in type, which are the ones that can cross the placenta.
You will also pass the antibodies on via breast milk, however - but a different class of antibodies (IgA).
Both are protective for the baby.
Crack your baby receives IgG antibodies from you across the placenta in late pregnancy (pre-term babies therefore receive fewer antibodies than babies born at term). When you get the whooping cough vaccine then your own immune system will produce lots of IgG antibodies in response. These circulate in your blood and some then pass across the placenta and will protect your baby from whooping cough for the first couple of months of his/her life.
Please read this- i posted it above.
Breast feeding will provide little protection against whooping cough.
And there is no proof either way to as whether immunity will pass across the placenta- and if it does, there is no evidence to say how mch protection will be give.
it would certaintly be unwise to go around thinking that because you have had it that your baby will not catch whooping cough for the first 8 week of its life.
It is even possible for babies to catch whooping cough after their first vaccination at 8 weeks. they are only likely to be immune after they have had their 2, 4 and 6 month vaccinations. they then have a booster at 3 years old.
Thanks for sorting out my igg and iga's, that was the last bit of the puzzle I wanted to know (get it in relation to slapped cheek but couldn't work it out for wc) purely cos i forgot all my a level biology and knew I knew it once!
Been busy all day but to respond to emonslemons vastly increased risk from pov of sheer numbers of confirmed cases as can be seen on hpa website. I teach sen (asd) children. We always get what they get. On an anecdotal level admittedly, there are years when things have definately been on the increase - in 11 years of teaching I heard of one case of slapped cheek 8 years ago. This year, right when I was 9 wks pregnant, we had several that kept popping up. I wasn't immune. The stress was horrid. According to hpa, this was a big year for slapped cheek . We also had a huge outbreak of chicken pox too. (im blaming all the bloody indoor play due to rain but I know its not that!) Dangers in reality are not as statistically and after 20 wks not as comparatively large (if known about) as wc infection. So I look at the comparative figures of reported wc (as the doh did) and think crikey, I want that jab, and id be very grateful if as many people got it as possible. I'm all for personal choice but there has been an impact from children not having the mmr (m outbreaks) following rubbish science (andrew wakefield had developed separate vaccines that he wanted to sell btw) and even more rubbish reporting. Sorry for slightly off topic rant, its something I get rather riled about.
Dontlaugh very much hope your ds is ok and gets better soon
Valiumqueen, you should become valiantqueen
Nov, haven't read that yet as in phone but there must have been a weight of 'better than nothing' for the experts to make the choice to do so. Plus then mum has had her top up.
Yes they are pretty certain that it will have some effect. The chances are the effect will differ between individual women and their babies- as i would imagine its linked to how efficient your placenta is etc (i am no medical expert though).
But do have a read through when you can- its very interesting.
My main concern is the question over whether vaccinating ourselves now will reduce the effect of the vaccine when the babies have it later on. The minutes say that they don't know if that will happen- so they will be looking at the results of what happens to our children to find out. which made me a little uncomfortable because i feel like my baby is a guinea pig. yes it would be great if they don't get it in the first 8 weeks of life as they are certaintly the most vulnerable- but if the result is that they aren't well protected for their months and years beyond that i am not sure if it is worth it.
i'm very torn over what to do. i'm not even sure if getting the vaccine is an option in my area/gp. i will find out on tuesday apparently.
clarella thank you, I think
This is why mn is the source of all wisdom' I will be reading up on the anti bodies with interest.
November there is a distinct possibility that the babies won't respond as well to their vaccines at 2 months but this will be mitigated by the fact that these vaccines are given repeatedly to continue stimulating the immune system.
Novemberbaby101112 and emonslemons, Im with you. I know its an awful illness and no mother wants to risk their baby getting it, but choices about medicines in pregnancy have to be taken rationally and based on evidence. It cant be made through fear. The vaccine they are going to give is called Repevax, which is never normally administered to under 3s and not the one they are giving in the US. It's the pre-school booster that kids get here and it's not recommended for under 3s. Why arent they using the 5-1 that you get for 2 month old babies? It better not be a cost decision.
Repevax is not advised for pregnant women because it's never been trialed on pregnant women. I'm so nervous when the info they are putting into the public domain is so one-sided, because it's not factual they cant possibly say there are no risks when they dont know the risks. I want all the facts so that I can make my decision and I really want to avoid being scared by the media coverage into making a decision that's not right.
I think we've got to weigh it all up against the rates. In Scotland there have been 65 cases this year in under 3 month olds when around 60, 000 babies are born a year. So even with very conservative guesswork less than 0.2% get it, and there will be variances as to how severe it is in each of those cases (that's not to say I'd be ok with a new baby getting it at all, even if it was mild). But I find it odd that they don't say how many were under 2 months, because there's a 95% rate of the 2 month immunisation for babies in Scotland, so how many of the 65 cases were actually in immunised kids between the age of 2-3 months?
I'm confused. My gut instinct tells me to stick to my guns about a drug-free pregnancy, but I don't know. I think I'll discuss with my midwife and see what she thinks. She's very pragmatic and would tell me what-she-would-do type of thing, rather than standard advice. I hate having this decision to make.
Would just add - if this was a single vaccine, I would find this a much easier decision. Does anyone know when/if they plan to have a single vaccine?
Love tolerance - that's v concerning. I am leaning toward not having it at present. Simply because the risk is less than it sounds really pitched against the risk of an untested vaccine. Even though dd2 is term inntuesday and unlikely to come to much harm I just can't justify it to myself
Thanks Valium we are home today, much improved but still no test results as they take a few days. To anyone debating the potential side effects of the vaccine I can only repeat what someone else said earlier, the side effect of whooping cough in newborns is death in some cases. A very final side effect really.
Lovetolerance - I too would prefer a single vaccine.
I'm really torn over this, and whilst I really don't want to run the risk of my baby catching such a dangerous illness, I don't think it's a cut-and-dried decision we are being asked to make...
SomebodyIUsedToKnow & crackcrackcrak, it's such a tough choice. I'm terrified by the thought of our baby getting whooping cough, but then I'm also terrified at the thought of how the vaccine could affect a baby that is not fully developed. Does anyone know why can't they give the normal vaccine to newborns - why do they wait until 2 months? I'm so terrified of this choice. I haven't taken as much as a paracetamol throughout my pregnancy and have already decided against the flu jab. But this is different. I just want to make an informed decision.
I am keen to thank Novemberbaby for posting the link to those Minutes which I really do think should be made known to all pregnant ladies who are being advised to have the whooping cough vaccine.
I'm now coming up to 35 weeks and have been putting off having the vaccine as I didn't like the idea of being a guinea pig but am anxious to do the right thing for my baby. It's a nightmare having to decide when there is for and against both options. So I decided to wait to see what feedback and facts came through from forums like this re the pros and cons.
The Minutes Novemberbay posted told me all I needed to know - they are not sure the whooping cough antibodies pass to your baby, by us having the vaccine it could 'blunt' how well our baby gets resistance through their after birth jabs, and most shockingly of all, that the Polio part of this vaccination is considered dangerous for pregnant women to take by the medical profession: my.clevelandclinic.org/healthy_living/Pregnancy/hic_Vaccination_During_Pregnancy.aspx - in this it states that the type of Polio in this vaccine (IPV) "can potentially be transmitted to the unborn child and might result in miscarriage, premature birth, or birth defects". Plus, there is an unnerving amount of references in these Minutes to how keen they are to follow the current women and babies to see what long term effect using this vaccination might have - we're the lab rats!
I literally found this forum and these Minutes a few hours before I was due to have my whooping cough vaccination and once I had read them and checked out the Polio etc references etc,. I 'phoned and cancelled my appointment. I'd much rather try and avoid public places for the first 8 weeks of my babys life than take the risk of having the jab.
I am only grateful that this information was made available to me. Thank you.
The polio vaccine is not technically considered 'dangerous'. The live (oral) one is a bad idea, but the IPV just hasn't been tested in pregnant women (like so, so many other drugs and vaccines). Brightspeed I don't see where you're getting that quote about IPV from that webpage, and I've scoured it! Source?
Everyone has to make their own decision on this one, personally I had mine yesterday and while I wish it was a single vax, I weighed up the benefits and risks as well I could and had it.
It's not just public places - I'm not planning on taking mine hardly anywhere for 8 weeks! - it's anyone who can come into contact with your baby. For example, my DH commutes on London transport every day, a giant germ factory. I'm expecting grandparents will want to visit and I don't want to completely ban everyone. In the US, grandparents and partners are all instructed to get the jab as well to fully protect the baby.
Oh crikey. I cancelled mine already once in order to do some reading up, but I'm as confused as ever.
So this vaccine might cause birth defects? Is that right?
And it's likely to make the baby respond less well to its 2 month vaccine?
Bit of a gamble isn't it.
I've just had the whooping cough and the flu vaccines.
It wasn't a offer I had to deliberate over.
Not sure what birth defects can be caused after 28 weeks by a vaccine?
Read the minutes of the vaccination meeting here: https://www.wp.dh.gov.uk/transparency/files/2012/09/Pertussis-teleconference-minute-to-committee-v4.pdf
Nowhere is there anything to give indication that birth defects are associated with the vaccine! In fact Brightspeed's quote above isn't even from the webpage she cited - I'm waiting to hear where she got it from.
Personally I found the minutes reassuring.
And yes, giving the vaccine at 28-38 ensures the foetus is fully formed and only putting fat on/ practising breathing/ adding antibodies to its system.
Just to add my twopennorth-
I have had whooping cough in this pregnancy- I caught it at around 20 weeks and the cough has only just gone (34+4 weeks now).
I have however been left with a cracked rib and a torn intercostal muscle which mean I
still can't do anything round the house, can't drive or do basic things without massive pain and I can only take paracetamol.
I'm really worrying about the impending birth; I had planned a home birth but as I am still in so much pain DP is now worrying, and I don't think I've had an unbroken nights sleep in months. Not what you want BEFORE the baby arrives!
You really really don't want WC while pregnant and given how much pain I have been in, I can only imagine how distressing it must be to see a precious newborn baby struggling for breath.
Please please have the jab, to me it is a no brainer.
Well I've booked mine for tomorrow. Not having the flu one this year though as so many people seem to have said it makes them feel dreadful, and I don't need to feel any less capable atm!
Just a bit concerned it might mean dc doesn't get proper immunity from his first jabs - but then if he already has some from mine, does that matter? <confused>
Terry that's awful - I do hope you make a full recovery asap x
Rooney, I didn't get a reaction at all from my flu vaccine. I had the whooping cough in one arm and the flu in the other at the same time. The whooping cough has given me a mildly sore arm but no other symptoms.
As the nurse said to me,
in a slightly exasperated tone "the flu vaccine won't give you flu, any more than the whooping cough vaccine would give you whooping cough"
Well I had the flu vaccine in October, no after effects. I will be having whooping cough in January. I know of several adults who have had whooping cough lately, there is a lot of it around. Personally I think the risk is tiny, compared to the potential death of a newborn baby. Loosing a child of any age, is something you never get over.
Hi terry! Hope u are recovering now from wc....just wanted to check- I take it u wil not be having the jab then? Atleast from ur illness u can rest assured your lil one has received a good dose of antibodies?
I went and had mine for WC yesterday. It's pretty sore tonight, arm is swollen at the top and hard to lift but I can still drive etc, just it hurts.
I'm quite glad I had it though.
Hoping soreness wears off soon...everything else hurts already so it's just one more painful body part to contend with!
Whatdoithink- no I don't need the jab as I will have passed on the antibodies. There was some debate but it did seem pointless so I was glad when they decided I wouldn't need it!
And I am recovering now thanks to all who mentioned it- I had a little whoop this morning for the first time in a couple of weeks but cough is practically gone. Just the torn muscle/ cracked rib to heal now and I honestly don't think they are going to be right until after the baby arrives.
yes Terry I cannot imagine a rib managing to heal under the strain of a bump!
Not long to go now, I'm a few days behind you, I hope it all becomes a very distant memory once your baby is here x
I know- its mad but I have been hoping baby comes early (logically I know I should hope it cooks for as long as it needs!) just so I can take some decent painkillers
I totally understand, well without having been through what you've been through of course.
I remember thinking I might have cracked a rib a few years ago when I had flu and I wasn't even pregnant then - it hurt like buggery. So I cannot imagine how painful it is when pregnant.
I've been kind of wishing the baby would appear early too, and I've only got SPD to complain about!!
Well, we don't have any say in it really, anyway, so that's Ok - it's Ok to wish a little bit I am sure these babies will do whatever they want!
Oh I know, nothing can be done anyway! I have started raspberry leaf capsules with a vengeance though!
Well nothing yet but I should hope not at 35 weeks, am thinking of trying evening primrose capsules up the fanjo from 37 weeks also. Got some in the cupboard anyway as I used to have epic PMS
Has anyone actually looked at what goes into this 'magical serum of wonders' - looked at the testing? -
you can find the link here for theirproduct that their 'hawking' www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/15256
Specifically look at this:
4.6 Fertility, pregnancy and lactation
The effect of REPEVAX on embryo-foetal development has not been assessed. No teratogenic effect of vaccines containing diphtheria or tetanus toxoids, or inactivated poliovirus has been observed following use in pregnant women. Limited post-marketing information is available on the safety of administering REPEVAX to pregnant women.
The use of this combined vaccine is not recommended during pregnancy.
The effect of administration of REPEVAX during lactation has not been assessed. Nevertheless, as REPEVAX contains toxoids or inactivated antigens, no risk to the breastfed infant should be expected. The benefits versus the risk of administering REPEVAX to breastfeeding women should be evaluated by the health-care providers.
REPEVAX has not been evaluated in fertility studies.
Or how about what goes into it (I'm confident that they won't list the 'full' list of ingredients, but here's a sample:
** Produced in Vero cells.
REPEVAX may contain traces of formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, streptomycin, neomycin, polymyxin B and bovine serum albumin, which are used during the manufacturing process (see sections 4.3 and 4.4).
For the full list of excipients, see section 6.1.
^Yeah, not having been to medical school and not being a medical expert, I trusted the committee of well-educated people who debated this subject publicly to have made the right decision. I read all the minutes. I was satisfied.
I have three graduate degrees including a Ph.D., but none of them are medical. I am pro-science and pro-education. I do not think people without medical degrees know more than those who do.
So yeah, I did trust the experts and I got the jab. Well done me.
So it looks like getting the jab immediately post partum may be the way to go for those of us who are still twitchy about this. That way antibodies theoretically get passed through breastmilk and the unknowns about having the jab whilst still pregnant are eliminated...?
No, the nhs advice is that bfing won't pass on vaccination immunity and you should have it while pregnant.
I've currently got a whooping cough (17 weeks), does that mean I wont need a jab as my baby will be immune to it?
This HPA link is useful. It suggests that if you have whooping cough in pregnancy you should still receive the vaccine to maximise antibody transference.
I had it- I am a doctor and sought the advice of obstetricians and microbiologists in my hospital and they all recommended it.
Does anyone know or have links to the amount of time the Pertussis (or the combined Tdap) vaccine has been used on pregnant women? I haven't found any yet but am still looking.
I know the US has been vaccinating pregnant women for longer then the UK (vaguely remember hearing for about 1 year only but do need to locate and verify the data). I have also read that the Tdap contains antibodies against diphtheria and tetanus too, both of which apparently have been used in pregnant women who have required it since the 1960s with no adverse effects. Therefore it's only the pertussis element that concerns me.
I'm 26 weeks pregnant and currently deciding whether or not to have the vaccine and am cautious that as noone is permitted to test vaccines on pregnant human subjects, that there is possibly not enough data available to determine whether or not administering Pertussis vaccine in pregnancy can have any long term developmental effects on the baby.
I am aware WC is a horrible disease in very young children (my mother had it as a newborn) but the data I have found states that 1 in 100 babies who contract WC at under 6 months of age will die of this illness i.e. there's a 99% chance of it not being fatal if contracted, and I wonder whether I'd rather take these known odds in baby's favour than gamble on an unknown outcome.
There is some evidence emerging from the US to suggest that in cases of children /babies who've contracted whooping cough, that many of them have been vaccinated i.e. the vaccine is actually not particularly effective. WC is likely to be passed onto infants from adults and it's not realistic/possible to vaccinate all the adults your baby will come into contact with (a method known as 'cocooning' i.e. vaccinating all close family members).
If anyone has any links/info to actual empirical data on this I'd be really grateful. Apologies for the lengthy post but I don't blindly trust the advice of the Health Service (whilst saying this I'm thinking of Thalidomide prescribed globally for morning sickness before later being withdrawn).
I would get the jab. I have whooping cough at the moment and it's no picnic. I'm exhausted. I wouldn't wish this on an adult and yet it's much much much worse for a child or baby. The feeling of suffocating during a coughing bout that then ends in vomiting is horrendous. And from what research I've done there is more and more of it about here at the moment. I was vaccinated as a child but didn't know that the vaccine wears off in adulthood. It wasn't on offer when i was pregnant five years ago but had it been I would have had it as this is really no fun and it supposedly goes on for ages.
If I were pregnant I'd get the jab. I contracted it as a baby, became seriously ill and nearly died. For that reason alone, if I thought there was a chance something could protect my child from that I'd take it. Like the MMR jab - I was never given it and my partnet's aunt caught shingles from his niece and was horribly unwell at present. Wish I'd been given it!
I'll be having it. I had WC as a young child and it was bloody awful.
What is actually in the vaccine? Does anyone know if it has any nasties in it such as lead? Mercury? Formildhyde? Heavy metals etcs? Apparently these have been connected to austism which obviously would be a long-term consequence of taking any vaccines. Obviously I would like to take the vaccine to ensure my new born will be safe from whooping cough but I also want to be able to make the decision knowing what I'm taking?
no there definitely is no mercury this used to be in the old vaccine for WC and caused some children to fit but was removed in the late 80's.
I don't think,anything else is in. It is just the booster they give to 3 year olds not a live vaccine like MMR either. Remember they are giving it to you not the baby I have looked into it a lot the negatives I have found is it may not get passed on through the placenta as much as we would like but in that case at least you are more protected as your immune system is lower in pregnancy and the other negative may be it does get passed on but means the vaccine they get at 8 weeks may not be as effective.
These are unknowns at the moment and may vary from mother to mother child to child.
IMO the benefits outweigh the negatives WC is a nasty illness and if the cases continue to rise I want to keep my child as safe as possible. My MIL is antivax my DH only got vaccines after contracting measles and meningitis in his teens and his sisters are not vaccinated for anything she is of the opinion that noone ever dies from these illnesses anymore - but that simply isn't true they are just not as big killers as they used to be due to antibiotics and vaccinations.
I have had the whooping cough vaccine thispregnancy and got it as soon as i was 28 weeks but that is because there is a risk of pre term delivery.
I have no regrets there are nocredible links to any vaccine and autism but I appreciate everyone has different circumstances and may react differently you have to do what is best for you and your baby.
To anyone reading this thread whilst wondering whether to have the vaccine...Please have the vaccine. It is safe. It could save your baby's life. My son nearly died of whooping cough which he caught at 3 weeks old. He is 6 months old now and still has the whoop. It was a terrifying and exhausting experience for the whole family and all I could do was watch my son suffer and suffer and suffer. If you don't have the vaccine and your baby gets whooping cough just like my boy and they are one of the unlucky ones who don't survive (13 babies died last year) then are you prepared to deal with the death of your child from something that you could have prevented? Think about it and then go and get the vaccine.
I've had the WC jab, no side effects for me except a really sore arm for about 3 days. I was initially unsure until a colleague told me that happened to her newborn who got it & was in intensive care. Same as that they get in their jabs, just protects them till the 8 work jab.
I'm having mine on Friday, I will be 31 weeks. I have seen 2 babies in the last 9 months in ICU in one hospital with WC. That is 2 too many for my liking, for something that could be prevented. I couldn't care less what side effects I get, as long as baby is safe.
Sorry you are having to go through this BouncyPenguin hope you are ok and DC makes a full recovery soon.
I think that explains it all really the negatives of having the WC vaccine certainly are nothing to if your child gets ill big hugs x x
Very interested to read the comment re getting immunised against WC using homeopathic treatment...does anyone know if you can do this? I'd much prefer that...
No, you can't get immunised against whooping cough using homeopathy because homeopathy is magic water and scientifically bollocks. Please use evidence-based medicine instead to protect your baby.
That may be your opinion but if someone has actual information that would be most interesting.
No, it's not my opinion, it's pretty obvious that you can't vaccinate against whooping cough with water, no matter how many times you shake the bottle.
Homeopathy is scientifically proven not to work, therefore I doubt anyone will have any scientific proof to back up any opinions on successful treatment using homeopathy. Hugely diluted "whatever" placed in a test tube and flicked against a special cushion isn't going to protect your baby from anything.
Ben Goldacre's Bad Science book has an excellent section on homeopathy, I suggest you go and read that before spending any more time, money or energy on magic water.
Let's not have more babies dying because their parents think homeopathy is a reasonable substitute for evidence-based medicine.
Goodness, I was asking because the more information or ways of protecting children without risk of long term suffering or any of these unknown potential side effects is worth trying to find out about. I'm not happy about taking a vaccine but I'm not happy about my child potentially dying either. I keep an open mind and will explore every lead and try to make the best decision with the information I can find. You don't ask, you'll never know but I'd rather ask than blinding take alternative or conventional treatments, either of which could be useless or worse, dangerous. I think we can all agree no one wants theirs, or anyone's else's child to die of WC.
You're still interested in attempting to protect your baby against whooping cough using water instead of a vaccine?
mamabrownbear I'm sure you're just trying to keep open-minded, but do read some of the critical literature about homeopathy before considering that path. I agree that Ben Goldacre's book is very good and an entertaining read.
There are many people (including me) who see red when homeopathy is mentioned because it is practiced and sold by so many charlatans who would happily try to persuade you that their sugar pill containing no active medical ingredient (conventional, herbal, or otherwise) will cure or protect your child. So please don't be offended by our anger. It is because we are completely disgusted by so-called 'caring homeopathic experts' who will prey on others' fears about conventional medicine; letting people get sicker, and even occasionally die; so that they may make a profit.
Thanks chocolatesolveseverything. Not offended at all. Everyone has different experiences and we are all approaching this from lots of angles. I've had very positive experiences with homeopathy but I've been lucky to be able to meet good practitioners. Not met one in years mind, not needed or interested in treatment which is why I was asking if anyone knew anything about it, not heard of WC related treatment, not even crossed my mind! So innocently I thought I'd ask. I've also had bad and good experiences with acupuncture too and goes without saying bad and good experiences with the NHS. Don't even get me started on hairdressers! But aren't we lucky we have options for medical care and a resource to support each other as we all try to do the best we can don't want to take this thread off on tangent, I just though it was an interesting comment in the earlier post by another.
Alternative medicines are fine for ailments and pain relief etc but they can't help with these kinds of diseases.
Keeping an open mind is good but 'some' homeopathy treatments and practitioners can be dangerous hence the reaction from many.
The vaccine has some unknowns at the moment but biologists and scientists have a pretty good idea of the safety of these vaccines based on the human body and other tests including how it acts as a booster.
I understand you don't always want to blindly follow what the government tells you to do but vaccines have saved so many lives so many that we don't see these diseases as being as dangerous as they are.
Getting facts and options is great but be careful of some propaganda. Look for credible research and articles that give both sides of the argument homeopathy research tends to be one sided when it comes to serious diseases and anti vax not to say some 'scientific' research can't be the same but don't trust that either.
Saying that what really angers me is people who don't get vaccinated purely because they heard it wasn't good and everyone else getting vaccinated will protect their child. If you do your research and have a genuine reason based on facts not to vaccinate that is fine but complacency around vaccines annoys me - sorry I digress as obviously no one here fits that category.
My favourite comment of the day would have to go to noblegiraffe: "No, you can't get immunised against whooping cough using homeopathy because homeopathy is magic water and scientifically bollocks. Please use evidence-based medicine instead to protect your baby."
Brilliant stuff and totally agree.
My MIL insisted she would have the homeopathic vaccine for whooping cough when we asked that she be vaccinated when our DS was born. There is an epidemic going through my state (in Australia) and it is recommended by the Australian Medical Association that all grandparents and parents have the vaccine if they will be in contact with newborn children. She refused. I was so pissed off and threatened that she would not have contact with her grandson until he received his vaccine. This is when she propose the homeopathic remedy. Ridiculous.
What baffles me the most is people take it upon themselves to question to advice of qualified individuals. I am a lawyer, not a doctor. You can't try and read some studies and pretend to interpret and understand them unless you are qualified. Stop pretending to know and understand what you are reading and protect your child for god's sake. And don't get me started on parents who refuse to vaccinate their children. That should be compulsory. Makes me furious.
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