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Any pregnant Type 1 diabetics?

(1000 Posts)
dieciocho Thu 06-Sep-12 07:44:33

I'm looking for other pregnant Type 1 diabetics in London, just to have someone to keep in contact with and share advice/horror stories/support each other etc.
I don't actually know anyone at all with Type 1, despite having had it myself since 1989

BonaDea Thu 06-Sep-12 09:59:14

Hi there - I am, and also based in London. I posted a similar thread a few weeks ago and got no response on here, so am glad you came along!

I am also a member of another fantastic diabetes forum which has a section on pregnancy where (obviously) everyone has diabetes, predominantly type 1. The link is here diabetes-support.org.uk/

dieciocho Thu 06-Sep-12 13:54:04

Thanks for that link; I've never heard of Diabetes Support Forum. I'll have a browse.

So, how is your pregnancy going? Which hospital are you attending and how has it been so far? : )

BonaDea Thu 06-Sep-12 14:27:49

So far so good. I'm 9+5 and so far have got along without a hitch - no morning sickness or anything. Had an early scan which is standard for us T1s I believe, and have had my booking appointment. I am already seeing the diabetes team plus midwife every two weeks. Have my 12 week scan (at 11+3) on the 18th of September. I'm at Kingston hospital and based in west wimbledon.

I've been set very tight control targets and am just about managing them with a combination of not too many carbs, injecting some time before meals (to avoid a spike afterwards) and also by over-shooting for a particular meal and factoring in a snack later so that I'm not getting too many highs and lows.

How about you?

BonaDea Thu 06-Sep-12 14:28:50

p.s. the DSF is very good for general advice on keeping tight control and general issues around diabetes as well as pregnancy advice! I post under a different name there but will say hi if I see you!

dieciocho Fri 07-Sep-12 09:15:48

Oh lucky you, no sickness! Urgh, I had it from week 5 to week 15 (I'm ...19 weeks today). It meant that I lived on toast, cereal and plain yoghurt; hypos were a pain as chocolate, sweets, honey all just made me feel even sicker.

I've got my 20 week scan at about the same time that you have your 12 week scan; good luck with it. Two of my (non-diabetic) friends have had babies at Kingston Hospital in the past couple of years and they've been very satisfied.

I'm being seen at Queen Charlotte's Hospital and live in Ealing. No-one there has suggested injecting a while before meals to avoid spikes, but I've read about it. I think I'll try it as my insulin requirements have increased massively since the 12 week point and I'm struggling to avoid post-food highs (not major, but 10ish).
Pre-pregnancy I was injecting around 1u per 10g of carbohydrate. Now it's more like 3u or 4u per 10g, but only at breakfast time.
I've been told it goes up by an average of 7u per week right until the end.

There's so much to think about and balance, I'm not sure I'll be able to go through it all again.

BonaDea Fri 07-Sep-12 09:52:29

Know what you mean. At a time when I just want to eat bread and cakes I just can't eat them because of trying to maintain tight control.

And my poor fingers are in shreds as I'm testing about 10 times a day at the moment!

I've got up from 2u per 10g for breakfast to about double that, and double for other meals as well, although the mornings are definietly worse! Are you also being seen very regularly by the maternity / diabetes team at Queen Charlotte's?

dieciocho Fri 07-Sep-12 14:50:44

Yep, my fingers are the same and I've been testing 10 times a day since we first mooted the idea of getting to the GP - that was February! I've started using my palms, but might've heard that the readings aren't as accurate...or something.

I think the morning issue is the Dawn Phenomenon, which I have to admit I don't fully understand.

Yes, I'm going to Queen Charlotte's every two weeks, which is tedious and has made things hard at work.
What do you do, by the way?

BonaDea Mon 10-Sep-12 11:16:40

There are a couple of things that go on in the morning. Dawn Phenomenon is definitely one of them. DP is as a result of hormonal changes in your body around dawn - it is basically to do with your juices starting to flow more as you move from being asleep to waking up and getting on with your day. That can commonly cause a rise in blood glucose which you can stop with insulin. However, I am also, separately, just much more insulin resistant during the morning than I am the rest of the day, so it just takes more insulin to do the same job. It is pretty tiring though!

Going every two weeks is tedious at this stage, I think. But I do feel fortunate to have had an early scan (can't imagine having to wait until 12 weeks to even see if there is anything in there) and I also think the extra checks will become reassuring later in the pregnancy. I think they start doing extra growth scans ever two weeks from 28 weeks or something, rising to every week later on. Quite exciting, really, to be able to see LO so often, when most people don't get the chance!

My work has been fine (they don't know I'm pregnant yet!), I've just been sloping off to appointments and making up the time elsewhere. I'm a lawyer, but work in house so can be really flexible.

How about you?

newbie6 Mon 10-Sep-12 13:42:57


Can I join your thread? I'm type 1 diabetic too, am 36 and been diabetic since I was 13. I am 20 + 6 and so far been okay. Like you guys, I am testing my blood sugar about 10 times a day and my fingers are sore also.

I've noticed in the last 4-5 weeks that my sugars have gone up so am increasing my insulin now. I am on Novorapid 3 times a day and Lantus at night and up until about 16weeks, didn't need to change my doses at all. My HbA1C is at 6.2% so hoping that it stays around this level. What is yours?

Its so worrying isn't it, I am normally well controlled but I am so blooming paranoid now that if my sugars go about 10 ish level that I might harm the baby and sometimes they seem to go up after a meal for no obvious reason so hard to predict...the joys!

I agree though re the extra scans, one of the perks I guess of having diabetes. I get scanned every 4 weeks but think they move me to fortnightly at some point? I love seeing my baby so often and think it must be awful for other women who sometimes only get one or two scans throughout so maybe for once having diabetes does have some benefits!

Anyway - great to see a thread from other Type 1's as I can never find any other Type 1 diabetics on here!


dieciocho Tue 11-Sep-12 14:05:36

Yay, more people!
Hi newbie6.

I haven't had my HbA1C done since I got pregnant, but it was 6.6 two weeks before I conceived.

Yeah, 10s stress me out, but my obstetric team doesn't seem phased by them.

At Queen Charlotte's I get a 12-week scan and a 20-week scan, then at 30 weeks I'll get scans every fortnight. I had to have an emergency early scan at 10 weeks as I had a bleed, so I have now seen it twice. I couldn't believe how much it had changed in just two weeks!

dieciocho Tue 11-Sep-12 14:12:49

I agree BonaDea, I'm sure the extra support and attention will feel very reassuring as we more into the 3rd trimester.

I haven't told my work either, but I'm finding it hard to hide my bump now, so I will have to very, very soon.
I'm a teacher (Adult Education) and I've basically just said that I need to reduce my hours as I can't work Wednesdays anymore. A lot of people in my dept. are part-time anyway, so it hasn't attracted much attention.
Of course I know the law re: attending ante-natal appointments, but somehow I don't think the people who devised that law had women like us in mind - no boss is going to willingly agree to fortnightly time off!

BonaDea Tue 11-Sep-12 15:30:26

Hi there newbie6!

I'm getting my next A1c in a few weeks, but it was 6.4% just around conception which was good. It MUST have come down in the meantime, though, because I've been super careful (in the past when I was a lot stricter with myself I got it down to 5.4% with very few hypos but that was seriously hard work!).

I haven't been able to find any good books about pregnancy or breastfeeding in Type 1 diabetics, so I will be interested to share my experiences with you two (and am glad you are both ahead of me!).

I'm a bit concerned about the whole induction thing, particularly since at my booking in the midwife said that when they induce they won't leave it very long before going down the CS route. Would have been so nice to have the luxury of a normal birth.

That has then worried me because I wonder about the impact on breastfeeding. And also, they have mentioned that if baby's blood glucose drops after birth which may well happen they might have to give formula to get sugar levels up, which I would really rather avoid.

Have either of you discussed this with your MW in detail?

dieciocho Tue 11-Sep-12 17:41:13

It sounds like your team is ahead of mine; not much has been said about labour/birth yet. It's mainly been about the pregnancy.

What I've read on Type 1 births has made it very clear that a "normal", albeit induced, labour is very, very possible ie. a C-section is not the only outcome.
If it is a C-section, breastfeeding is still an option; I've got friends who had emergency C-sections, but went on to breastfeed afterwards.

I won't be forced into anything when my time comes; of course if it becomes a life-or-death situation, I'll follow medical advice, but otherwise I will make up my own mind with my partner's support.

BonaDea Tue 11-Sep-12 17:49:10

Quite right, too and I'm definitely planning on being as difficult as I have to be to get what I want! smile

newbie6 Tue 11-Sep-12 21:22:14


I agree with the others, if you are well controlled I don't see why you cannot ask for what you want as surely natural is best unless as you say there is a medical emergency. I've not really been told about birth options yet other than they will induce me at 38 weeks but I guess the scans nearer our due dates will determine what happens? All a bit scary but I reckon if we keep our control good you are giving yourself and baby the best chance of a positive birthing experience smile


dieciocho Wed 12-Sep-12 15:28:32

newbie6 where are you based? And which hospital are you attending?

BonaDea Wed 12-Sep-12 16:11:41

I think the "induce at 38" weeks thing is pretty standard, and exactly what I wanted to avoid. Would rather go natural...

Apparently it is to do with early deterioration of the placenta in diabetics, although again I'm sure there must be a correlation with poor control...

Ah well. Have been hypo tastic today which the MW told me could be a sign of a growth spurt in the baby. Quite nice to think about really!

newbie6 Wed 12-Sep-12 19:29:28


I'm based in Ayrshire in Scotland so attending Crosshouse.


dieciocho Sun 16-Sep-12 15:37:54

newbie6 wow that's quite a long way away! BonaDea and I are both in London.
How are you finding your diabetes/obstetric care at Crosshouse?

Yes BonaDea I've heard 38-week induction is to do with the placenta packing up, which is more common in diabetic women apparently. I hate the one-size-fits-all policies- if my placenta's fine, why can't I do things more naturally?

My news is that I have now felt the baby move! It was like a flicking behind my tummy button - a strange sensation, nothing I'd ever felt in my life before, so I'm fairly certain it was the baby.

20-week scan tomorrow; wish me luck. Good luck for yur 12-week scan too BonaDea.

newbie6 Sun 16-Sep-12 18:56:12


Care has been okay but do feel like you are not looked at as an individual, i.e they will induce me at 38 weeks no matter what.

Good luck with your scans!


rosieposey Sun 16-Sep-12 20:21:44

Hello, sorry to crash your thread but its interesting to read your experiences as there seem to be no threads for type 2's on here (only gestational diabetics).

I am on number 5 and had GD for 1st 4 pg's (eldest is now 20!) and got left with type 2 probably after number 3 who is 15 now. I didn't get called back for a check up after i had her and when i got pg with DS 4 years ago the consultant seemed to think i had had type 2 for a while.

This is by far the worst i have had diabetes in all of my pgs. I am 26 weeks today and already on 70 units of Novarapid 3 times a day and 65 of Lantus at night - it's a bit scary as that seems loads to be injecting and my levels are still all over the place and i seem to be needing to increase by a couple of units every 3 days or so.

Someone mentioned upthread about placentas deteriorating and even though i had fairly good control in DS's pg 4 years ago i still had the horrible hypos from 33 weeks onwards and my insulin requirements dropped dramatically - i had a very calcified placenta after my elcs at 38 weeks and am terrified of something happening to my DS2 that i am pg with now because of this.

I know you have to manage highs and lows on a daily basis as type 1's and feel really sad about that because it's been tough whilst i am pg - i was told because my control was so rubbish on metformin before i became pg this time that i will probably have to stay on insulin now, i dont mind as this is better than having high bg levels all the time (could never seem to get below 11 on hba1c's) I just had one done a couple of weeks ago and i was 6.1 which is great - like i said just worried at the amount of insulin i am taking with another 12 weeks to go.

Its really interesting to read what you do in terms of eating and taking care to make sure your bg's stay stable - type 2's arent given half of that info and i suppose its because its not as serious or as full on as being a type 1. I have seen an endo a couple of times already this pregnancy and feel much safer and better about my diabetes.

Are any of you on really high doses of insulin as yet? Sorry if that seems like a silly question as you probably are (maybe twice what i am taking) how do you handle those really nasty middle of the night hypos? I am guilty of way overdoing it to bring my bg's back up - too much lucozade and chocolate sends me rebounding the other way but i have no idea how much to take - i have had one really nasty 1.8 mmol reading and could barely drink.

Ok well as i said - hope you don't mind me asking your advice and just reading about what you do in general - this is definately my last DC and i just want to make sure i am doing the right things.

newbie6 Sun 16-Sep-12 21:13:25


Sorry to hear you have had such a difficult time. I sometimes think GD must be worse as you won't have ha d the info and care that T1's hopefully get. I am on novo rapid 3 times a day and lantus at night but my dosage is just a little higher than what I was on pre pregnancy but I have read that you sometimes need to change it, I guess everyone is different? I am on around 6 in the morning, 10 at lunch and 12 at tea and take 22 lantus at night but suspect that may need altered as my pregnancy goes on. Am 21 plus 5 at the moment.

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy. I have found the diabetic support forum site really good.


rosieposey Sun 16-Sep-12 21:25:35

I suppose its because it isn't GD anymore - it was in my 1st 3 pgs but now i have type 2 they put me on insulin as soon as i found out i was pg.

Thanks for the reply anyway - i was hoping i wasn't going to be the only one on such huge amounts, especially as i am only 5 weeks ahead of you. i just hope i go down to fairly normal levels after DS is born.

newbie6 Sun 16-Sep-12 22:25:18

I'm sure you will and I'm sure there are others that are on higher doses. The important thing is that your HBA1c is fab!


rosieposey Sun 16-Sep-12 22:37:29

smile Ok thank you - that makes me feel a bit better. I think it was good because my control has been good since the beginning of this pg its only in the last three weeks that my bg's have been much higher and tbh at the joint clinic appt i attended two weeks ago the endo said to be prepared for my insulin needs to go up very shortly because of the baby's growth so i suppose i am just panicking a bit for nothing - thanks again for the reasurrance x

dieciocho Tue 18-Sep-12 19:43:20

I'm planning to start reducing my carbs (and therefore insulin) as my MW said my baby might develop an unusually large tummy due to the high levels of insulin I'm could end up taking in the next few months.

rosieposey your doses are much higher than I've ever been on, but maybe that's because you're Type 2
I take about 20 of Novorapid at breakfast, 5-ish at lunch and 5-ish at dinner. I take 8 of Detemir at breakfast and 2 at dinner.

My diabetes consultant told me that it's common for insulin requirements to go up by 7u per week during the 2nd trimester. So don't worry!

Also, to see just how many sweets/how much pop you need to correct a hypo, have a look at "Carbs and Cals" - good, clear picture book for diabetics.
BTW, I only need about 5 cola bottles (for example) to get my blood sugar back up from 2 to 5 or 6

dieciocho Tue 18-Sep-12 19:44:55

Oh and that's cola bottle the sweets, not bottles of cola!

rosieposey Wed 19-Sep-12 09:58:09

Hi dieciocho, thanks for replying - i saw my endo yesterday and he said basically not to worry about the amount im injecting and that some people (type ones and type twos can end up on 200 units per meal sometimes - i just get very insulin resistant in my pregnancies and it seems to get worse with each one).

He said my bg's weren't too bad at 8's and 9's after meals but obviously they would like me to continue working on getting them down. He also said that when my insulin requirements drop at the end of the pregnancy (like they did in my last one) that i will probably need to go down by as much as 10 units per day till i stop having hypo's.

Thanks for the advice re how much sugar to have when having a hypo - i will swap the cola bottles for jelly babies smile I miss them! I will get a copy of carbs and cals too.

I haven't been told in any of my pg's about babies tummy's getting bigger due to increased insulin - it makes sense i suppose, i can't wait for this pregnancy to be over tbh - its my last one and i just want to get DS out safe and sound.

<just accidentally posted this on the wrong thread blush>

I've been meaning to post on this thread for a while,sorry for the delay!

I'm in south London, I'm not pregnant at the moment, but am T1 (nearly 30 years since dx), pumping for the last 8 years, and have a DD who is 5 and a DS who is 2. Both born by CS due to retinopathy complicating things. I'm also on the diabetes-support website, though haven't logged in for ages.

DD was delivered at 39+something weeks, DS at 31+3 (he's a surviving triplet). Both were BF for about a year.

They normally deliver at 38 weeks now because a diabetic placenta ages quicker than a non-D one, so 38 weeks is approx equivalent to 42 weeks IYSWIM. Insulin levels dropping in the 3rd trimester can be a sign that the placenta is failing, take it seriously and get checked out.

If you're planning to BF, be prepared to drop your insulin levels to about 75%ish of pre-pregnancy levels - often nobody warns you that BFing causes your sugars to drop through the floor. NEVER sit down to feed without jelly babies to hand, to go with your glass of water Certainly nobody told me, hence DH getting a call at about 3am on the 2nd night in hospital, saying "no need to worry, but we've moved your wife back upstairs...she had a hypo..." <inspects sugar readings of less than 1mmol/l with raised eyebrows>

Speaking of which, take lots of snacks into hospital with you - hospital food is dire, I carb counted one days menu after I had DS, there was a magnificent 75g carbs for the whole day.

If anyone's got any specific questions about T1 and babies, I'm happy to try and answer them we're TTC #3 currently, I'm getting very impatient with things!

newbie6 Thu 20-Sep-12 22:49:51

Thanks for your post ruedewakening, it's really helpful. I am 22 plus 2 and this is my first baby and have started worrying about things as you read so much stuff! My hba1 was 6.2 before conceiving and is 6.1 now so I know I am doing ok but I have mild diabetic retinopathy, not caused by pregnancy as discovered it a few years back so have had laser treatment once and now thankfully all seems okay. Still panic though when I read that labour can cause too much stress on your eyes, is that correct? Thanks also for the tip on BF as I would never have known that.

Wishing you lots of luck in getting your baby no 3!


Pregnancy generally causes retinopathy to get worse, have you had it checked in each trimester? Worth following up if not. But yes, it was my eye consultant who wrote to the hospital and basically demanded that I not be allowed to go into labour - as it turned out, the precautions didn't work and I had a massive bleed when DD was about 6 weeks old, which was fixed with an op when she was 8 months or so.

Thanks for the luck, I'll take what we can get!

dieciocho Fri 21-Sep-12 11:31:22

Hello again RueDeWakening.
Were you at King's when you had your daughter? I'm interested in your 39+ delivery date with her, I'd love to be allowed to go that long.
What was it that meant they let you go that long? I'll try to copy it!


rosieposey Fri 21-Sep-12 11:42:12

Rue - my placenta was really calcified when i delivered by cs at 38 weeks 3 years ago. I was having hypo's right left and centre from about 34 weeks onwards and my placenta was closely monitored. I agree about being super vigilant if you are having loads of hypos - i was terrified of something happening to DS and i am the same with this pg, if any hour passes without movement (he is quite a wriggly baby) i am really paranoid - think i must have been up to the day assessment unit a good 9 times or so in the last week of pregnancy due to ds having a quiet day.

I have had the eye drops where you cant drive, I have to have a retinal eye scan too at some point shortly I was told there is alot more risk of bleeds in pregnancy - its really scary to think that you actually had that happen Rue sad My consultant said he couldn't see anything bad but wanted me to have the retinal eye scan as it was far more accurate and detailed (and i had an hba1c of 11 pre pregnancy).

Its really interesting advice, i will remain on insulin now i am told and had been planning to BF (didn't with my last DS) so the jelly baby advice is welcome - makes sense i suppose as lo is taking alot out of you calorie and energy wise. Good luck with your next pregnancy anyway smile

BonaDea Fri 21-Sep-12 11:57:56

Hi there Rosie, and welcome to the thread.

Although it sounds like you are having a hard time, it does sound like you are perhaps better off on insulin.

Can I ask you whether you have been told much about carb counting? It is just odd to read that you are on fixed doses of novorapid because really you should be adjusting the amount you take depending on what you eat... Also, you should be able to adjust your doses to ensure that you are not having those middle of the night hypos at all - perhaps you need to reduce your Lantus dose if you are continually dropping in the night. The issue with hypos is that the more you have, the less you start to feel them as you lose so-called 'hypo awareness'.

I am on no where near the doses you are taking... I'm on a different long acting insulin from you. I take Levemir rather than Lantus which is usually taken as a split dose morning and evening (I take far more at night than in the morning) but have a total daily dose of only about 28 units at the moment. I am on a total daily dose of Novo rapid of around 40-50 units. This is waaaay more than when not pregnant, but no where near your doses.

Having said that, I am only 12 weeks pregnant and this may well mean that my doses are only going to keep rising.

I mentioned it above, but I would really suggest you visit the Diabetes Support Forum website (go into the forum, rather than the general information section). The link is further up the thread. It is NOT connected to Diabetes UK which I think spout a lot of old fashioned tosh about diabetes. They have a pregnancy board on their forum but also loads and loads and loads of super helpful people who might be able to give you some general advice for controlling type 2 diabetes, not just when pregnant.

The main thing you can do - and I know it sounds painful - is to moderate your carbohydrate intake or at least understand which types of carbs you react to well and which will send your blood glucose soaring. It's really simply: carbs = glucose and without insulin we can't process that. Of course you can't cut carbs out, but you can choose carefully what you eat and avoid big portions of some of the main culprits like bread, pasta, potatoes. That may allow you to drop your massive doses of insulin and in turn have reduced risk of hypo. Just a thought, and of course you really need to read into it yourself...

rosieposey Fri 21-Sep-12 14:15:43

BonaDea I did mention to the Endo that i would like to know how to count carbs because i know that you can adjust your insulin doses according to what you eat. Tbh they just give you a start dose and then tell you to increase by two to four units everytime you go over the magical 7.5 mmol an hour and a half after meals.

I know from speaking to other type 1's that they take different doses according to what they eat - this isn't the case when people with GD are put on insulin - they start off on a certain dose and stick with it till the test sticks start to register a higher mmol

I asked him is anyone else on these massive doses and he said some people are on 100 - 200 units per meal per day, it all depends on your insulin requirements and insulin resistance towards the end of your pregnancy.

I know a little more now from reading up on low GI carbohydrates whats a better choice and what is going to send my BG's crazy - for example new potatoes are a much better bet than mashed potatoes. The Endo did say as you have that one way to cut down the doses is to reduce the amount of carbs you have - god thats depressing isnt it and although i try and stay away from sweet things and 'bad' carbs i am quite dependent on Carbohydrates as a rule and crap at controlling portion sizes.

I know that some type ones can lose their hypo awareness and thats a really scary prospect, you are just sort of left to get on with things if you are a type 2 or have GD and i do understand why because nhs resources are better directed at type 1's as this is far more progressive and dangerous than type 2. The trouble is my type 2 has not been well managed and i have high HBA1cs so am so glad i am on insulin now as the Metformin on its own was doing nothing.

Oh i forgot to mention on top of these really high doses of Insulin i am taking two Metformin in the morning and two in the evening as well and with regards to the Lantus it was in my last pg that i had really bad hypos in the middle of the night but that was because my placenta was starting to fail. I have only had one in the night so far this pg and that is because i had a chicken salad with virtually no carbs in and i being a bit of an ignorant type 2 didnt know at the time about needing at least some carbohydrate when taking insulin.

Its a balancing act i know and i probably need to arm myself with more information as its not just this pregnancy or my previous ones, im stuck with this for life and i have not been taking it as seriously as i should have (was in denial a little after the birth of DS three years ago) so i need to be around for a long time yet!

Will have a look at the forum you suggested as well, i did have a look at a diabetes forum once before but i was really sad and pissed off at my diagnosis so thought i would bury my head in the sand a little longer - perhaps this pregnancy (which wasn't planned but was a happy accident as i thought 40 was too old for another one) has saved my life and made me start to take diabetes more seriously.

Mylittlepuds Fri 21-Sep-12 14:21:00

Me me me! I'm T1!

I've had one healthy baby but this one is unplanned...not good. And so unlike me!

HBA1C was 7.5% at conception whereas last time I was A Grade diabetic with 5s thoughout. I have to say I'm less stressed this time though. Last time was a blur of hypos - so although my HBA1C prob will be higher thoughout this time, it's 'truer' in that it's not just low due to constant hypoing!

I've just discovered almonds...if you eat them as a mid morning snack they keep my BG levels so steady over lunch. It's astonishing. Please try and report back!

Also giving myself more long acting through the night. I tend to be verging on hypo all night but it helps keep things lower the next day.

Are any of you on CGM? We've self funded it and it's worth it's weight in gold. It really is. If you can afford it do it.

No issue with breastfeeding. I did it for nine months with DS and it keeps your BG levels on the low side.

Any questions please ask.

dieciocho Fri 21-Sep-12 16:12:02

Hi BonaDea, I'm pleased you're on the thread again; I was worried that your 12-week scan might've gone badly.

I'm trying your suggestion of injecting before meals to prevent peaks, esp. after breakfast, and so far so good. Thanks for that.

dieciocho Fri 21-Sep-12 16:12:56

Thanks for the advice mylittlepuds; almonds are on the shopping list!

BonaDea Fri 21-Sep-12 17:24:57

dieciocho no, I'm here, I'm here! 12 week scan was great, thanks for thinking of us! The LO wsa in there jiggling his/her way through the whole thing, waving, kicking legs (sometimes one at a time, sometimes in frog kick fashion). Was a lovely experience, and I think that for Mr B in particular it brought it all home!

rosie - I think it is genuinely disgusting that someone would be given what is in fact a dangerous drug like insulin without being given the least bit of instruction on how to use it. A serious hypo can kill us - either because you simply collapse, or because you fall down stairs or crash your car. It's really unforgiveable of the NHS. When I first started using insulin I test test tested to figure out which doses I needed to give myself and figuring out which foods affected me in what ways. I also went on internet forums and bought and read a fantastic book with the slightly dubious name of "Think Like a Pancreas". It is very very useful. Now might not be the time to embark on this, particularly with your busy life, but I think if you stay on insulin you must either insist on proper training from a diabetes specialist nurse or resort to self education! Any questions, ask us junkies grin

Mylittlepuds - I had a GCM for a week at one point when I was having real difficulties with dawn phenomenon and fasting blood glucose. This was about three years ago. I would be interested in self-funding if I thought it was worth it. How hard was it to get organised and what do you see as the main benefits to you?

Oooh - we are quite the merry crew now, are we not?

BonaDea Fri 21-Sep-12 17:25:55

*CGM that should have said!

Mylittlepuds Fri 21-Sep-12 17:37:51

Rosieposie - hypo tip. Four glucose tablets, wait 15 mins, retest. Has stopped me over treating a hypo.

When I was diagnosed type one I was given no training on how to work out insulin levels either. I ended up injecting 8 units Novorapid with a fish salad one night...

CGM during pregnancy is a lifesaver for me as I suffer with bad anxiety. It was £1000 for the Abbott Navigator and it's about £220 a month for the sensors. I have had a PCT funding request knocked back, but we're appealing.

V easy to organise - just rang Abbott and it came the next day! Main benefits peace of mind - predicts highs and lows - as well as always displaying your reading. Also I know how I react to certain foods so much better now.

Mylittlepuds Fri 21-Sep-12 17:48:10

Rosie it's disgusting that you're injecting such large amounts of insulin and they've not armed you with key knowledge. Like I said above, I was put in that situation too. It's crazy dangerous.

Carb counting is so simple. Don't know if anyone above has explained but basically you work out what you need per 10g of carbs. Say a slice of bread is 20g of carbs (it will tell you on the packet) you may need a ratio of one unit per 10g, meaning you'd take 2 units of insulin - and so forth. I'm on about 3 per 10g of carbs at mo for breakfast. So if I have a slice of toast I inject 6 units. You see?

You can also 'correct' a high reading, although you do need to be a lot more careful with this. I take one unit and it takes me down three mmols in approx an hour and a half.

Mylittlepuds Fri 21-Sep-12 18:28:05

Rosie - yes also think it might help you to stick to say 30g of carbs per meal. Totally agree about new potatoes - they are fab!

rosieposey Fri 21-Sep-12 20:49:12

I know its nuts that they don't give more info - especially re carbs. I have been secretly correcting high bg's myself depending on how high they are as i know type 1's do this. I had no idea about the units needed to bring myself down from say 10.4 so i have made a couple of mistakes (15 units once and hypo'ed within the hour) but now i generally put in an extra 6 and that does the trick when i test an hour later. Thanks for the info on how many units i need to bring it down though mylittlepuds because i had no idea - has all been guesswork up until now.

Am going to have a go at carb counting using the method above and try and stay within 30g's of carbs per meal - will do my best anyway - does anyone know where you can find out the generic carb info on things like potatoes, pasta and things like that? What about fruit - ive been having a couple of pieces of fruit a day with main meals and it doesnt seem to have any major effect?

I know its not great but how do you manage things like treats? I had a look at the carb free megastore and even though im not a massive sweet or chocolate eater its still nice with a movie at the weekend. Are they particularly bad for you and even though they dont have sugar and low carbs do they mess with your bg's too?

Thanks for the hypo tip as well - had no idea that glugging a bottle of lucozade and scoffing a mars bar would do that much damage nor that i needed so little to get my bg's back up within 15 mins - all i want to do when down in the 2's is scoff and stop shaking!

Im at the Swindon Great Western hospital and they do keep a close eye on me via the day assessment unit (i have a blood pressure series every two weeks incase of PE am on asprin but i havent had it before so fingers crossed) but i have only been seeing the endo and obs in a combined clinic every 6 weeks or so - growth scans start in a week and a half so i hope all is well with my little guy. I ended up on Methyldopa for high bp in the last few weeks of my last pg and probably will again but so far so good and everything apart from the diabetes seems to be going swimmingly.

I am really in admiration of you ladies, unless you know any diabetics it seems no one knows how much of a juggling act it is to keep yourself and your baby healthy, the reniopathy scares the shit out of me and i was warned about bleeds being more common in pg - this really is the last time for me!

Might try and get that book too 'think like a pancreas' it will make for interesting reading and prepare me for taking better control of the disease when i have my lo.

Mylittlepuds Fri 21-Sep-12 21:12:28

Hi Rosie. To find out the amount of carbs look on the packet. It will either say carbs per item or per 100g, in which case a kitchen scale comes in handy. Also as another one of the ladies mentioned Carbs and Cals is great. If you have an iPhone you can get the app.

Just be careful, I'm not a doctor and would hate you to be gung ho with the carb counting and hypo. Initially I'd just start working out what you'd take and whether it correlates with your current method. I'm just so cautious as hate hypos. I have a real fear of them which is no good for a pregnant diabetic really!

Have any of the T1 ladies who've had babies suffered from PND/anxiety after the birth? I did badly, and apparently it's more common in diabetics so would be interested to find out.

newbie6 Fri 21-Sep-12 23:30:06


Yes, get seen every trimester for my eyes and so far so good.


Mylittlepuds Sun 23-Sep-12 11:54:43

Hi ladies.

I need to have a vent.

What a day yesterday was. After spiking at breakfast I hypod an hour and a half later. After I drank some Lucozade I inevitably spiked again and was on the high side for a couple of hours after correcting. I had lunch (daring to have afters as was at a christening) and was then on the high side ALL AFTERNOON. A day of teetering around 10/11 - or so it felt. And it all felt like my fault!

Today I was determined to 'do better'. But I had a HUGE hypo after breakfast. I gave myself 4 glucose tablets and waited 15 mins but my level dropped even further! I then panicked (as I'm work on my own and no one else is in the office) and drank a load of Lucozade. Lo and behold BG then went through the roof. After correction (and another hypo) it's finally settled.

I am soooooo frustrated and worried! After a couple of weeks of fabulous control it's all gone very up and down. I'm only nine weeks so very, very worried about the impact this last two days has had on the baby.

Can anyone please reassure me?! Does anyone else have struggles like this sometimes and feel like tearing their hair out?

dieciocho Sun 23-Sep-12 15:16:08

Yes, Mylittlepuds, I did and still very occasionally still do have days like that, even though I'm 21 weeks now.
Days when it feels like you have a totally different condition, not diabetes, because it's refusing to act like normal diabetes.
Someone else said hypos in the first trimester can be to do with growth spurts.

Just to reassure you, at my 20-week scan everything seemed normal, so my up-and-down days appear not to have had a major impact...

Mylittlepuds Sun 23-Sep-12 15:54:54

Thanks for the message dieciocho smile You've cheered me up. It's a bloody nightmare sometimes, and I've been through it once not that long ago!

My husband is so lovely but when he says "It's fine," I just get irritated and think "Do you know it's like to have such a responsibility!".

Thanks again smile I really do appreciate and I'm happy for you in that all is okay.

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 10:09:18

Morning ladies. I have also found the "Collins Little Gem pocket calorie counter" to be great (get the calorie one, not the carbs one - it has both). It is a tiny little book so you can cram it in you handbag if needed, but lists just about every food under the sun. You do need a set of scales at home, though... After a while you get the hang of it!

It's hard not to panic with a hypo isn't it, especially if it is on the lower side of normal for you. You can't think straight, which is one of the symptoms and the whole thing can just spiral from there. I have to be quite strict with myself when treating a hypo otherwise I'll go mad and end up spiking after half an hour. Easier said than done sometimes, though...

ONe thing i've started doing is having little bottles of fresh orange or orange / raspberry or smoothie around the place. They are just as 'sugary' as coke or lemonade or similar so good for treating a hypo but I kind of figure at least if I drink them I am also having something nutritious with lots of vitamins for the baby!

As for people understanding... no one can. I feel like I'm carrying a HUGE amount of responsibility around at the moment and I'm finding the constant worry, testing, injecting, hypoing, correcting to be exhausting. Of course, it is for the best possible reason but I do feel a little bit resentful that I can't just get on with enjoying my pregnancy like a normal person. Not that I'm saying you ladies aren't normal.... wink

Mylittlepuds Mon 24-Sep-12 12:44:24

Hi Bonadea! Do you find orange etc does the trick as quickly? I just want maximum impact on a hypo but would love to switch to something more nutritious.

dieciocho Mon 24-Sep-12 12:45:17

That's exactly why I wanted to find other people like me BonaDea; no-one else understands - not consultants, not friends, not GPs, not partners, not family members.
I hate being asked how things are going with the pregnancy, because if I stop to think about it an answer honestly...I'm not enjoying it at all: I'm tired, worried, hypo, confused, hyper, worried that the worry is hurting the baby...

Urgh, sometimes I could cry.

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 13:03:19

littlepuds - yep, I find fresh orange juice etc is just as quick. I think anything in liquid format (milk is another good one) is the quickest way to go but with a glass of that I am far less likely to go high than with evil lucozade.

dieciocho - I am soooo with you. I could cheerfully punch my diabetes specialist nurse most weeks when I see her. You would think they would get a sense of how hard and demoralising the daily grind is, wouldn't you?

In particular, I couldn't understand why she and the nutritionist are soooo critical of my saying I am moderating my carb intake. To me it is so OBVIOUS that if you eat fewer carbs, you shoot less insulin, so you have a reduced chance of going way over or way under on the amount you take, and hence are less likely to go either hypo or hyper. I'm talking about doing the flaming atkins diet - I still get plenty of carbs and fibre through the occasional slice or bread, lots of veg and some 'friendly' fruit, but I just don't load my plate for every meal. They are still very anti it so now I just lie about what I eat. Of course, they are delighted with the good readings I'm getting and are no doubt congratulating themselves when it is all my hard work!

Anyway, it is lovely to speak to people who understand!

Mylittlepuds Mon 24-Sep-12 15:17:31

No one can understand unless you've been through it. Last pregnancy I think many family and friends - and particularly work colleagues - just thought I was overreacting to my situation. "yeah, yeah - stop worrying, it'll be fine." Oh will it now? Do you have to wait 20 weeks to see if you've damaged your own baby's heart?

Now everyone's saying "Oh it's fine - your DSwas so this one will be." Yes that's how it works...Even DH guilty of this.

And if I have to eat one more glucose tablet...

Mylittlepuds Mon 24-Sep-12 15:20:02

Bonadea - I don't eat that many carbs. For lunch today for example I had salad and a few new potatoes. I think as long as you try and have about 30g of 'good' carbs with each meal that's just being healthy isn't it?!

I did once when not pregnant get so fed up with my wayward levels that I stopped eating carbs altogether. I did get quite poorly. But we're not talking about that are we?!

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 15:41:15

Nope, not talking about that... 30g is a sensible aim, but if you listen to the offical nutritionist line, if 60% of your plate is made up of carbs for each meal, you're probably talking about double what you've mentioned. You're eating what I would call a carb-moderate diet rather than low-carb. It's what works for me too - it's a decent balance...

I also know what you mean on the "oh, it'll be fine, have a slice of cake" brigade. I mean, really, would people say "oh, it'll be fine, have this tequila shot". Of course they wouldn't. And this idea that because so-and-sos sister's niece who is diabetic had a healthy child suddenly means that I will is of course rubbish and really undermines what I feel I'm going through!!

Hello, just found your thread. Can I join you? 26+4 with dc2 been diabetic for 13 years. Had a bad time with dd towards the end so expecting the same this time. I haven't read the whole thread I'm afraid, anyone else split their background insulin? I have 17 units of levemir at night and 10 in the morning (it's not usually such a high dose but levels have been gradually increasing over the past eight weeks, as expected). I also have started injecting ten minutes before eating, I had to do the same with dd smile

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 15:54:06

Hi Spotty and welcome! smile

Sorry to hear you had a bad time, last time. did you have particular complications?

Yes, I also split my Levemir and have done since I started it about 4 years ago. It has always worked much better for me that way. My doses are quite strangely split even before pg - 7 units in the morning, 20 at night. But it works....

I'm now injecting up to 20 minutes before eating too and find it is helping keeping those post-meal spikes at bay.

dieciocho Mon 24-Sep-12 15:55:31

Welcome Spotty, yep, I split my Levemir, but I only take 8 + 2
You all seem to be on lots more, maybe I should raise it with them at clinic...

I've also started injecting before eating - sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I've always injected before I eat but usually immediately. Pre pregnancy my levemir was a lot lower (probably half the dose, I have forgotten though, baby brain!).

Last time I had pre-eclampsia and obstetric cholestasis. I also started having frequent hypos so they induced at 36 weeks, I was pretty poorly and dd was 8lb!

I've gone from having 4 units for two slices of toast to 12 currently!

Mylittlepuds Mon 24-Sep-12 16:16:46

I'm still on Insulatard on a night - is Levemir more 'modern'? I was offered Latnus but didn't dare switch thinking that I know where I'm at with what I'm on.

Ooh what's this about splitting long acting - what are the benefits of that?

Also I'm going to give injecting 10 mins before a try too smile - sometimes hard though.

Spotty I'm now on 11 fast acting for toast!

I used to be on Lantus about three years ago. I don't know anything about Insulatard, but I know Levemir is pretty 'new'.

I started splitting because my levels were rising towards the end of the day, they don't do it anymore.

It is hard to change your injection times when you're so used to doing them at a certain time!

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 16:41:39

If you're unsure about your Levemir dose, the best way to test it (certainly for your day time dose) is to test in the morning, inject your Levemir, then do not eat anything until lunchtime. If your Levemir is right, you should not go high or low during that morning period. If you drop down, your Levemir might be too high. If you go high, you need more. You would then need to repeat the test for other times of day (ie the lunchtime to dinner time slot) to check what it is doing at those times.

Nighttime doses, you need to do the dreaded 3am check to find out what is going on...

BonaDea Mon 24-Sep-12 16:43:22

I used to be on Lantus, too, but it is supposed to be less flexible and is not good for dose-splitting. Splitting the dose means that if you need more background insulin when you are sleeping you can inject more for that part of your day than for your waking hours when you may need less.

newbie6 Mon 24-Sep-12 19:13:30


Can anyone tell me where the best place to inject is? I used to do it in my stomach but because I'm getting bigger now not so keen on doing it there but not sure if doing it in my leg is allowing it to be as effective as am finding my sugar readings can higher for no reason? I'm 23 weeks and am now on 12 units for lunch and tea normally of novo rapid, 8 novo rapid at breakfast and have increased my lantus to 24 at night now to see if that helps? Had a blood sugar of 5 today an hour after lunch, then 2 hrs later it was 12 despite eating nothing after the 5 reading, all so worrying! Totally agree with others re no one else understanding what responsibility you feel.


I injected in my stomach right up until I had dd last time. I go high up towards my ribs and out towards my hips. What are your morning readings like? What time do you give yourself your lantus? I'm no medical professional obviously but I think if it was my nurse she would be splitting the lantus, can you speak to your nurse?

newbie6 Mon 24-Sep-12 21:27:52


My morning readings vary from about 4 to 9 but on the whole they are about 5 to 7. I take my lantus at 10 pm every night.


Mylittlepuds Mon 24-Sep-12 22:11:02

Hi Newbie - that's happened to me a few time recently. I've had a goodish reading at an hour and a half after eating and then my level has randomly risen despite not eating anything more!

In my experience it's to do with what I've eaten - for example if it's something quite 'fatty' (like on a rare occasion I have fish shop chips) it will do this as your body needs to process the fat first. This has also happened with pasta on odd occasions, perhaps as it takes longer to process but when it really starts to your blood sugars soar. Hope that makes sense! I have to say though it's also just randomly done it without a reason. I've put it down to hormones!

newbie6 Mon 24-Sep-12 22:18:17

Thanks everyone, will just keep checking them every few hours, sore fingers here I come smile

5.3 this morning after a hypo at 2am

dieciocho Tue 25-Sep-12 10:15:12

Ha ha! I'm on 20 units (Novorapid) for 2 slices of toast!!!

My long-acting is split because I was waking up low most mornings.

I was told that Levemir/Detemir has only recently been approved for use in pregnancy. It's a gentler insulin than Lantus (my old one) as it is released in "drips" apparently.

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 12:55:48

Fat can definitely slow down the release of glucose into your system, so if you are eating a fatty meal, it can delay the spike to up to 2 hours after you've eaten. If you are eating something fatty with lots of carbs such as chip shop chips, pizza or curry/rice, it can be a good idea to take a second dose of novorapid an hour or so after you've eaten.

Another possible explanation for a rise after a good one-hour reading is that you might have had a hypo without realising it and liver has dumped glycogen into your system. Could that be a possibility?

For injection sites, it is fine to keep using your tummy if you can still 'pinch and inch' but another alternative that I have started using recently is the fattest bit of your arm. Be warned though -this seems to release insulin faster, so just keep an eye on your levels!!

A question: the DSN this morning ticked me off for giving a correction dose before bed on a couple of occasions. I seemed to have got my evenign dose wrong and was sitting around the 9.8 mark before bed, so I gave myself a single unit of novo before bed. It seemed to work and I woke up in the region of 6, which I would expect. However, she warned me never to take insulin jsut before bed in case of hypo in the night.

However, I know this is just not happening as I'm testing when I wake - which I do every night to go to the loo. I understand they want me to avoid night time hypos, but I am just not comfortable leaving a reading of 9+ unchecked for 7/8 hours while I am in bed sleeping. It seems stupid when I can quite easily - and in my opinion not dangerously - correct it.

Thoughts please? Do you / would you do this?

Bona what I do is have a snack with a bit of extra insulin. It probably seems counter productive but seems to work well and stops me worrying about a night time hypo. Plus I'm always hungry these days so any excuse to eat wink

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 13:17:31

spotty - weird isn't it, but often diabetes IS quite counter-intuitive (not that you would think that listening to the nurses!!).

have to say i have actually been welcoming the odd hypo as an excuse to eat extra and the occasional sweet or otherwise naughty treat!

Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 14:15:58

I do correction doses before bed - like you just a unit. A unit in pregnancy is nowt so personally wouldn't worry! Before I was on CGM I'd have just perhaps tested when I got up for the loo.

I'm just fancying peanut M&Ms... Not good!

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 14:19:31

Peanut M&Ms - yum!!

Can I ask you about CGM please. I think you said you self funded - how did you go about sourcing it and organising fitting etc and what are the benefits (sorry if you already answered this above, I might have missed you response if you answered before). I'm feeling it might be a plan...

Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 16:05:41

Hi Bonadea.

Yes self funded. Dead easy - called Abbott they sent the Navigator system out the next day! Have a look on the website.

It was about £1000 for the monitor and the sensors are about £230 a month.

For me the main benefit is peace of mind! But it also lets you know how your body reacts to certain foods etc. It's expensive but I wouldn't be without it!

dieciocho Tue 25-Sep-12 17:27:41

BonaDea I used to go to bed with a reading of 10 or so, that was pre-pregnancy and in the first 2-3 months. It meant that I didn't have a hypo in the night and woke up with a reading of 4ish.
Now that I need more insulin, I'll inject 1 - 2 units if my blood is above 9 at bedtime
If I wake up to wee, I'll test my blood.
Generally my breakfast readings are 4-8 now.

I was warned by consultant about arm injecting - advised not to during pregnancy.

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 18:28:53

Thanks littlepuds - I had a monitor for a spell once when I was having trouble figuring out what was going on with fasting blood glucose readings and it involved me not seeing any results for the week I wore it and then getting a print out from the hospital after it was all over. Pretty pointless really!

So, I assume you can just look at the monitor any time to figure out your levels? Does sound lovely not to have to keep pricking all the time... the initial outlay is not too bad, but the monthly expense of sensors does sound steep! Wonder if they are perhaps cheaper if ordered from the US?

Do you insert it / fit it yourself or do you need help from a DSN or something?

Sorry for all the questions!

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 18:29:52

dieciocho - sounds like you have found the right balance now... Although as you were before, I think my first step would have been to reduce the amount of background insulin before bed, to avoid that drop perhaps? It is trial and error, isn't it?

Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 19:03:34

No it's not like that. It displays a continual reading and also has a little arrow beside it saying whether you're on the way up or down, and if its a rapid accent or decent or just gradual.

There is a 10 min delay on it though, so if you feel hypo you need to test. I've found I've needed to still test a lot during pregnancy as the hypos can hit quite fast. I am a worrier though and I bet some people who have CGM rarely test. In fact pre pregnancy I'd gne from testing around 20 times a day to about three or four, it's just that background peace of mind if you're out and about. I have a toddler and its not always convenient to test do it's helpful in that way too.

I'm not sure about the importing from America thing. Never really looked into it. I believe you have to purchase them directly from Abbott so I don't think it's an option to be honest, and I don't think there's much difference in price.

I put in a PCT funding request which was knocked back (which is par for the course I believe) and my consultant is appealing. I suffer from bad anxiety and hypos so those are the grounds we're making the application. Also I was going through that many strips, and they're s expensive, it would be pretty cost neutral to the NHS.

You change your sensor every five days yourself. It's easy although the first couple of times you need to follow the instructions to familiarise yourself with it.

I really, wholeheartedly recommend it smile

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 19:54:57

Thanks for the input. Checked out the website and it does look really amazing - just to be able to look at the little monitor without the faff of actually getting the kit out, stabbing yourself blah blah, looks great. I can just imagine having it sitting on my desk at work and just being able to glance at it. And I guess for overnight it is brilliant.

I don't think I would have a hope in hell of getting funding - I have generally good control, no anxiety and have never had a really bad hypo... But the convenience of the thing sounds wonderful, I must admit.

Will need to have a chat with DH because he'd have to help me with this financially if I'm still to be allowed to buy nice maternity clothes and go out IYSWIM! (we're married but basically have our own banking arrangements other than joint things like mortgage, car etc).

Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 20:12:41

For work it's amazing. Is as close to feeling 'normal' as I've ever been. Yes so good for overnight and exercise.

It's a stretch for me and DH (it's a big monthly commitment) but I would never not have it now and DH knows how much it's changed my life.

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 20:15:02

I can imagine.

Can I just ask (finally) whether you looked into other options and why you went for the Abbott one in the end?

Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 20:26:41

Of course.

I'd tried the Navigator on a week loan from the hospital. I cried when they had to take it back - literally. The relief to have it was just amazing.

I liked the Navigator as it gives you 'up' and 'down' indicators and also a line graph of how your levels have been throughout the day. There are other cheaper ones but I don't thin they're quite as precise.

One word of warning - they've discontinued the Navigator in the US. I have been assures they have no plans to do the same in this country but you have to know so you can make your own decision.

I would ask your nurse if you can trial one for a week to see if it suits you. Some people hate them as don't like to be 'overwhelmed' with the information they provide. For me though I feel more comfortable the more info I have!

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 20:35:22

Thanks, this really helps.

A girl on the diabetes forum I'm on (she's currently pregnant with no 2) has one which is linked to her pump... but I'm not on a pump so not even sure that is an option.

I'm actually really struggling to find any comparative data or reviews on line. I mean, I know it's not exactly Which material, but you think that someone somewhere would have done an analysis of the pros and cons of the options...!!

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 20:38:20

Spoke too soon. Gary Scheiner - the guy who wrote that book I recommended above "Think LIke a Pancreas" - has done this review. It is probably a bit US focussed, but it might give me an idea! I'm becoming rapidly obsessed - god help Mr BD when he gets home from work tonight!


Mylittlepuds Tue 25-Sep-12 20:43:18

Ha ha! I managed to find quite a few reviews so happy hunting.

It's honestly fan-bloody-tastic and will be worth it's weight in gold once your baby is here.

I should be on commission!

OxyMoron Tue 25-Sep-12 20:58:57

Sorry, interloper here, attracted by the title! My dd (4) uses the navigator cgm and it's been an absolute godsend!
I really rate the sensor technology, we find the readings very accurate, and the trend arrow helps so much.
I have seen comparative data on the commercially available systems in one of gary scheiner's letters. The navigater came 2nd, only one percentage point behind the new, next generation dexcom4 (is that available yet?).

If i couldn't get the navigator i'd go for a dexcom. Medtronic's old sof sensors don't score so well on accuracy (and are massive! 13mm). Their new enlite's are better, but still (imo) not a patch on navigator or dexcom. Also each enlite is about 65 quid, compared to 40 quid for our sensors.

Anyway, sorry for butting in, but i hope that's helpful info. I've read a lot aqbout sensors, have used them for two years and know folks working in sensor research.

And I'm also likely to be up most of tonight as dd is weirdly low, no matter how many carbs and how little insulin I give her. But I can see from the navigator that she's creeping up again. Poor lass was 1.3 after school. Haven't seen a number that low in years. sad

BonaDea Tue 25-Sep-12 21:46:19

Hi OxyMoron - that really does help very much, thank you.

Incidentally, you are probably well up on what's hot and not in diabetes and might already be posting on a relevant forum (and I too promise I am not on commission for referring people to this forum) but this place is excellent: http://diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php

The folks on there are super helpful and knowledgable about diabetes generally, and I know they do have quite a few parents of children with diabetes regularly posting in their 'parents of diabetic children' section! Anyway, just in case you ever looking for someone to share war stories with.

I hope DD is ok tonight. It is such a horrible feeling being low and I actually don't know if I've ever gone as low as 1.3!! Good luck getting her sorted - am sure she'll be right as rain soon enough.

OxyMoron Tue 25-Sep-12 23:26:47

Thanks. She's back up, actually sky high now, but has been so low for the last 12 hours that I'm being cautious with the corrections. Poor thing. I just have no idea what it must feel like for her to have extremes like 1.3 and 21.5 to deal with, especially in the same day. We usually do much better than this! No idea what's caused today's trouble.

Thanks for the recomendation. smile

Being pregnant is making me really thirsty and I hate it because I automatically associate thirst with high levels. It confuses me grin another hypo at 4am is that my levemir that's too high?

BonaDea Wed 26-Sep-12 10:45:20

Hi spottyteacakes - I guess there are too possibilities:

1. that the Novorapid you are taking with dinner is too much. However, if that is going to send you low, I would expect that to send you hypo within 2-3 hours MAX if injecting. So, if you have dinner at 7 and are ok by 11, I think you can assume that your Novo is ok (you should be aiming to be at 6-7 before bed, not too low)

2. If your Novo is ok in the evening, then yes, I would assume that your Levemir is too high for the evening and I would suggest that you reduce that by 2 units and see what happens. If you are changing Levemir, the advice is always to set your alarm for 3am (sorry, I know it is a pain!) and check what your blood glucose is doing. If it has crept up a bit, add another unit. If you are still dropping low, try reducing by another 1-2 units and re-test.

Good luck!

BonaDea Wed 26-Sep-12 11:50:29

*that should have said TWO possibilities... blush

Mylittlepuds Wed 26-Sep-12 14:22:24

Hi Oxy. I think ALL children with diabetes should have CGM. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be a parent of a type one diabetic. I hope CGM has made it that little bit easier in terms of peace of mind.

In fact I think all type one diabetics should have access to CGM as it's helped me so much. I take it for granted a bit now but when I first got the Navigator system it was like a physical weight had been taken off me.

I'm glad that you think the Navigator is the best one as that's the one I went for. I love it. The graphs and the arrows are great. I should imagine in the night it helps you so much smile

Hi Spotty.

I've been really thirsty. It's as normal symptom of pregnancy as the amount of blood in your body increases massively. It was more so for me in the early weeks but now at 10 weeks it's eased off. I never get thirsty when hyper which is a bit weird!

I'm 27 weeks now and wake through the night to drink, I don't think I was very thirsty to start with it's definitely increased

BonaDea Wed 26-Sep-12 14:53:40

Called up both Abbott and the UK-based Dexcom supplier today to discuss pricing and supply.

The Dexcom 7 has now been discontinued in the UK and they are doing the new Dexcom G4. The unit price is now more expensive than the Navigator, but only by £25. They also say their sensors are licensed for 7 days but in practice will last 10-14 days, which if true would make it cheaper to run. HOWEVER, the transmittor doesn't have batteries, it has its own limited power source, so you have to buy a new transmittor every 12 months costing £275. You also have to recalibrate it every 12 hours, whereas the Navigator is 4 times over 5 days, which seems better.

So, all in all I'm defintiely thinking the Navigator is the way forward. It has generally better reviews online, too (I think...).

Littlepuds - agree everyone should have this on the NHS. CGM on average reduces Hba1Cs by 1% without any other intravention, so the cost savings on neuropathy and retinopathy treatments for the NHS would presumably be significant. I can also just imagine the sensation of a weight being lift. The idea of it is so attractive to me right now.

Discussing with DH tonight!

dieciocho Wed 26-Sep-12 15:38:47

Spotty I'm ridiculously thirsty these days and always think I'm hyper, so test my blood, but it's fine.
In my first trimester I was even admitted to hospital with dehydration and had to have a drip!
So, now I try to drink at least 2L of plain water (plus other drinks) each day. I would drink more, only I'd then be up throughout the night!

Mylittlepuds Wed 26-Sep-12 16:11:25

Bona - prior to pregnancy it also cut out ALL hypos. Considering that they can be life threatening this is a major factor I reckon. Sadly now I'm preggers they've become a regular feature again! But that's the nature of the beast.

Also with the Navigator there are times when one of the sensors has stopped working for one reason or another half way through the five days. Abbott has ALWAYS sent out a replacement (sometimes two!) free of charge. Considering they cost £35 it's comforting to know they do this. They have really been fantastic. Being very skeptical by nature I thought they were just after my cash initially, and would then just dump me. They haven't. I also had a few problems with the transmitter which they replaced without blinking. Considering they cost £450 I was surprised they didn't investigate further. I still have an 'extra' one that they didn't ask for back.

To be fair I don't drink enough anyway! Having a day of hypos today I think it's because I haven't had any small snacks inbetween meals when usually I'm constantly eating!

BonaDea Wed 26-Sep-12 16:50:41

Sounds good. I was more impressed wtih their customer service by far than the others i phoned.

also good that they send everything by courier, including any replacement batteries you might need

Luckily I don't suffer from too many hypos but just want to make sure I'm keeping an eye on those sneak 8, 9, 10 readings through pregnancy

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 11:50:35

Hi ladies.

When my blood sugar drops rapidly I seem to feel dizzy and then if it goes onto a hypo I feel dizzy and lightheaded for some time after. Does anyone else get this? I also suffer from anxiety so I'm not sure if it's my anxiety or my hypos!

BonaDea Thu 27-Sep-12 11:56:43

I feel quite like that when by levels drop quickly. It is like a "hypo +" - it seems to feel worse when it happens quickly.

Are you having lots of hypos and are you noticing any patterns on times of day?

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 12:02:23

Yes - it's when they drop quickly. I start feeling a bit fuzzy and lightheaded. Say I go from 9 to 4 rapidly that can bring it on, even though I'm not officially in hypo zone. Does that sound familiar?

Oh they're happening all the time these last couple of days. I think I'm taking too much long acting as I'm hypoing through the night and then it seems a constant battle to stop the hypos the following day. That means my long acting requirement has gone down though in the last weeks and I'm a bit worried as during pregnancy they're supposed to go up and up!

BonaDea Thu 27-Sep-12 12:07:10

Yes, sounds familiar - I think a sudden drop can certainly make you feel almost as bad as a true hypo. Just treat - moderately - when you start to feel that way. Don't go mad with the lucozade, though, because then you end up yo-yoing all day!

Definitely sounds like long acting needs to be reduced in the evening. And, although overall your requirements will go up, I believe that tends to happen a lot more towards the end of the pregnancy. Right now, your body is expending lots of extra energy growing this baby, and that can make your blood glucose drop just the same as lots of exercise can make it drop. Also, hormonal changes can affect glucose levels and your hormones are going mental right now! Don't worry to much about what 'should' be happening - you know your body and if you are hypoing, you need to get yourself out of that horrible cycle, particularly if you are anxious about it...

dieciocho Thu 27-Sep-12 12:19:54

Ok, who's willing to talk about weight?

I weighed myself this morning for the first time since getting pregnant and I've gone from 57kgs to 62kgs. That's 5 kgs in more or less the same number of months (5 months!? I'll be 5 months next week. How the heck did that happen?)

I've been looking for data on weigh gain per month, but can only find the "11kgs-16kgs for the whole pregnancy is average" stuff.

5kgs in 5 months seems very little to me. Obviously, I don't want a diabetic-mother huge baby, but nor do I want to stunt the baby with my careful diabetic diet.

Any thoughts, esp. from those of you due earlier or around the same time?

I'm 27 weeks and have only put on 3kg. I don't know what I put on last time but I was a similar size and had an 8lb baby at 36 weeks. I really wouldn't worry about weight

BonaDea Thu 27-Sep-12 12:56:38

I am. I will confess my scales at home have died and I couldn't face getting new batteries for them... But I was weighed last week by the MW and think I've gained about 3kgs since my wedding in early July. So, at the moment it looks like I'm on about 1kg a month which would give a total gain of 9kg if sustained throughout. However, I'm SURE i'll put more on later...?

I wouldn't worry about it, die, the key thing is that you're getting all the nutrients you need and you're controlling glucose levels. I really don't think too much else matters...

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 14:46:38

I've just had the scariest hypo experience ever. I weirdly wasn't going up at all after lunch - after about half an hour after eating my levels had started to drop. I knew something wasn't right and so I had some glucose tablets. 15 minutes later my levels were still going down so I had more. After another 15 minutes I started to panic as my level was STILL going down and I had two glasses of orange and more tablets - still not going up. Just remaining level. Anyway after 40 minutes of testing and eating more and more tablets (about 15 in all) my level finally started to rise. I absolutely dread to think what would have happened if I hadn't have started with the sugar early. An hour on, after all of that, it's only at 11. I feel stressed about the impact the episode could have had on the baby (all that sugar) and concerned as to why it happened. I've had the same insulin I'd normally have - although my long acting is a little high for me at the mo. Ugh. Thank God DH was off with me today. Sorry for the rant - I've just not been that scared in a long time.

BonaDea Thu 27-Sep-12 15:00:26

Eeek - sounds horrible. Also sounds like you need to look at your lunchtime ration perhaps?

You have NOT hurt the baby. The baby takes the glucose that is in your blood. Your blood glucose was low, not high. Plus, your baby has a fully functioning pancreas and is far more capable than you of sorting out a trifling bit of sugar (the lucky little devil!).

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 15:08:59

Thank you BonaDea. God I'm really shaken up.

BonaDea Thu 27-Sep-12 17:15:14

*Obviously I meant to say ratio, not ration!

Is 6.something too high for a before dinner reading when I last ate five hours before? I didn't test before and after lunch today. Should my pre meal readings be 4/5?

Gosh puds that doesn't sound fun. Glad you're ok now though. I have had similar before but not whilst pregnant. Do hypos wipe you out for the rest of the day? I say they do but I might be using that as an excuse to get dp to look after me wink

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 20:49:29

Hi Spotty. Mine are normally around 6 to be honest. Rightly or wrongly I've always paid less attention to pre meal than post meal - even during last pregnancy. If you've had to give yourself a little sugar top up in between (which is often the case to achieve such strict post meal levels) it can make things harder. I could be giving you duff info but for me that's fine smile

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Sep-12 20:51:41

Spotty yes I've been wiped out but I think just from the stress of it. I know we are often at 'panic stations' as diabetics (well, I am anyway!) but this was just a different animal! X

BonaDea Fri 28-Sep-12 10:51:29

The aim is supposed to be between 4-6 before your next meal so 6.X sounds ok to me! Obviously 4 or 5 would be even better, but you need to balance that against not having a hypo inbetween.

Mylittlepuds Fri 28-Sep-12 12:07:27

Hello ladies - me (again!). So after yesterday's trauma I've discovered that my insulin sensitivity has suddenly increased massively - from 11 units novo with my breakfast to approx 6 units.

I've been on the phone to my nurse and she said it doesn't sound good, that it can be a sign the pregnancy is not ongoing. I did have a scan at 8 weeks with a heartbeat.

But she also said sometimes that insulin sensitivity can increase between 8 and 16 weeks. But she said that's quite unusual.

I've had no bleeding or cramps but do feel quite under the weather today with all the worry and stress of yesterday.

Did this happen to anyone else? I know I'm clutching a straws but I'm hoping for the best.

Sorry to hear that puds no advice I'm afraid but keeping my fingers crossed for you

Mylittlepuds Fri 28-Sep-12 12:50:02

Thanks Spotty. I've done a bit of research and it can be quite normal, so I'm feeling better smile. It's normally late first trimester and they don't really know what causes it - thought to be hormones though as ever. God I forgot just how stressful it is being a pregnant diabetic. Calm thoughts!

dieciocho Fri 28-Sep-12 14:20:16

No advice from me either puds, but I will also keep my fingers crossed.


BonaDea Fri 28-Sep-12 16:18:11

puds fingers crossed. Have they offered you a scan? Have you had your 12 week scan yet?

My MW definitely told me that hypos were common in early pregnancy...

Mylittlepuds Fri 28-Sep-12 17:05:42

Hi Bona. We had an 8 week scan and the heartbeat was fine. Now this has happened (I'd say I'm back to pre pregnancy insulin requirements all of a sudden) my diabetes nurse has said it doesn't sound good - although she did say around 9-16 weeks your requirement can go down by up to 20%) and they still won't give me a scan! Not unless I've had bleeding and I don't want to go down the route of lying about it. It's so infuriating as we have to wait 2 weeks until 12 week scan (I'm 10+1). Thanks for all of your kind wishes smile

Hmm my insulin requirements definitely didn't start to go up until way past the 12 week scan I'm sure of it. It's only really started increasing lots in the past couple of months v

Mylittlepuds Fri 28-Sep-12 18:24:28

Thanks for thinking back for me Spotty. I just can't remember with DS. X

Eek, after posting earlier in the thread just to say it can be done...I'm doing it again grin tested this morning, so v v early days but will be off to the docs for a referral to the joint diabetic/antenatal clinic in the next week or two, so I can get my viability scan sorted.

What have we done?! grin

puds my insulin sensitivity goes mental from about weeks 8 to 16. To the point where I've woken up looking at some lovely paramedics both times after swinging hypos. I normally drop requirements by about 60% in all.

Mylittlepuds Sat 29-Sep-12 09:22:23

Congratulations Rue!! Welcome back to the world of diabetic pregnancy?! How far do you reckon you are? Is it your second pregnancy? It's my second and although DS is only 17 months I seem to have no recollection of what actually happened insulin wise during my last pregnancy! Just that it was a bloody hard time. Smiling at my computer for you.

Ah thanks for remembering that. It's made me feel very relieved. It's just so strange for me to be taking so little insulin - my requirements had gone up by x3 in the morning and x2 lunch and dinner (i'm only 10+2). Now I'm back to 1 unit to 10g. I am a worrier so tend to think the worst. My nurse did tell me it could be a bad thing so I take that as gospel rather than her saying your requirements can reduce by 10% to 20% (I've found women online last night who have been similar to us where they've gone down by 50% and more). Fingers crossed it's all okay smile x

Thanks. I'm only 4 or 5 weeks yet, not much really. This will be DC number 3, but DS is a surviving triplet, and I've had a mmc in between DD & DS. Looking forward to explaining that lot at booking in... hmm

Mylittlepuds Sat 29-Sep-12 09:58:50

4/5 weeks means only 3 weeks till first scan - yay! How exciting. Oh God I know what you mean - my medical notes are like War & Peace! Congrats again.

dieciocho Sat 29-Sep-12 14:11:40

And congratulations from me Rue; I hope it goes well.

So many of you seem to have had 8-week scans, never heard of that at my hospital.

I rushed to the hospital after work yesterday as I'd had reduced foetal movement all day - cue big panic as I'm only 22 weeks.
It turns out the heart was beating well; the midwives were ridiculously nice to me, even though I'd wasted their time (my feeling.)
Now we're thinking of renting a Doppler, they're about £10/month.
Has anyone else done this? Is it over-the-top?

Thanks smile

8 week scans are helpfully called "viability scans" at my hospital - I get one because I stop taking ramipril for kidney protection as soon as I get a +ve, and if the pg isn't viable then I go straight back to taking it again. My last 8 week scan is when I discovered it was triplets, only I'd stopped listening after she said she'd found the first heartbeat and she had to explain it to me again while I tried not to fall off the bed from shock grin

Congrats Rue smile

dieciocho we bought one off eBay for £20 (new) where is your placenta? We find it hard to find the heartbeat because mine is right at the front, but it's getting easier now baby is bigger than the placenta! I went to labour ward after a car crash, even though I could feel movement etc I think they are always more than happy to check these things out as they know what a worrying time it can be

BonaDea Sun 30-Sep-12 11:49:46

Congratulations Rue.

At my hospital (Kingsont) diabetic women are routinely given an early 'viability scan' (I agree - horrible name!) basically as soon as they find out. I got mine at 6+1 and was able to see a heartbeat at that stage.

dieciocho - so pleased that everything was ok and I really don't think midwives mind people panicking: it's only natural! The only thing I've read about dopplers is that they can unnecessarily panic you because the ones you can buy are not as sensitive as the hospital ones and without being properly trained you might not be using it properly at any given time. But as an extra level of comfort, I guess why not?

BonaDea Sun 30-Sep-12 11:50:53

p.s. horrendous blood glucose for me overnight - woke up at 3am needing the loo and was 16.8 shock Was not best pleased, took a correction dose and still woke to 13. Not sure if I just completely screwed up last night's dinner dose, or whether I might be having a hormone surge or something. Cripes!

Mylittlepuds Sun 30-Sep-12 12:18:52

Oh Bona. Happens to the best of us. SO bloody infuriating thought! Sounds like hormones to me.

dieciocho Sun 30-Sep-12 14:17:33

Spotty my placenta is apparently anterior, so I suppose that would mean we'd have the same problems you had with "finding" the baby.

Anterior placentas cause even MWs a bit of trouble, they kind of muffle everything that's going on behind, eg you're later to feel movement and detecting the HB is tricky because you're just as likely to pick up your own HB pulsing through the placenta as you are the baby's.

Mine have both been anterior to date, I expect this one will be too, time will tell.

Yeah placenta sounds more like a woosh

Having a crappy week day so have eaten one hundred bourbons and now too scared to test sadblush

Mylittlepuds Sun 30-Sep-12 15:52:02

Oh Spotty! Ha! Test and correct smile

After my requirements went through the floor my levels have been all over the place - I'm in a hypo/over treating hypo cycle. It's very hard not being so hard on yourself and worrying sick about the baby. So I've had a pretty crappy diabetic week top. I long for the day when I can have soaring levels and not worry I'm hurting anyone but me!

Eek woke up with 9!

Mylittlepuds Mon 01-Oct-12 08:36:28

9 isn't a travesty - just think even 'normal' people can go up to 9 after eating. I bet things have been ok through the night and then slowly risen in the early hours. X

Ok so I gave myself 16 at breakfast (12 for toast plus 4 corrective) and its 10.something an hour later. Should I correct now or retest in an hour? It was 8 when I went to bed but I was expecting that.

Mylittlepuds Mon 01-Oct-12 08:40:49

I'd personally wait another half an hour as it takes an hour and a half for rapid to properly kick in. I bet you find it starts coming down.

Thanks puds it's 8.2 now so I'll just leave it until I have something else to eat.

Mylittlepuds Mon 01-Oct-12 10:07:16

Ah good - it's always a little relief when it comes back into the realms of normal!

BonaDea Mon 01-Oct-12 13:12:09

Quick question please: has everyone over 12 weeks now stopped taking their 5mg of folic acid?

I asked my DSN who said I could now stop, but I kind of got the impression it didn't matter either way. I am still taking pregnacare which has folic acid in it but only 400 micrograms so a tiny dose in comparison...

I think I stopped taking it at 13 weeks. I don't think you need to carry on, the baby is past the stage where the folic acid is beneficial in reducing the risk of problems

dieciocho Mon 01-Oct-12 15:27:38

I stopped folic acid at 12.5 weeks and everyone seemed happy about that.

My consultant always wants me to take folic acid the whole way through, along with a baby aspirin. Can't remember why...

Also re correcting, how long does your rapid last for? Mine's active for about 3.5 hrs so you need to calculate insulin on board to see whether you need to re-correct - I think there's a calculator somewhere will see if I can find it.

Just remembered, it's an iPhone app, search for iob calc and you should find it smile

Mylittlepuds Mon 01-Oct-12 17:50:05

The Aviva Accu Check monitor is fab for working out how much insulin to take. You can programme your ratios for different times of the day and it takes the guess work out. It reminds you when to test after a meal and will also let yo know how much active insulin you have on board. It's fab. You can get it free from your diabetes nurse.

My mum has that one puds it sounds really good. I got given a new one when I first got pregnant though it can do ketones through your blood too

dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 09:02:34

I'm on baby aspirin too, to reduce the risk of developing pre-pre-eclampsia.

I'm on baby aspirin as well, didn't help last time though.....

dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 09:21:19

Did you have pre-eclampsia Spotty?
What happened? How did you know?

dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 09:22:13

Sorry, my 09:02 post shouldn't say "pre-pre..."

BonaDea Tue 02-Oct-12 09:32:36

Eeek - am about to phone up and order my Navigator CGM. Am weirdly reluctant about ordering it - maybe it's all the money or the fact that it will be such a big change to how I do things?

But all the preggie ladies I've spoken to say it's fab. If ordered this morning, I should have it tomorrow...

Mylittlepuds Tue 02-Oct-12 10:41:39

Woo hoo! Exciting BonaDea! I really hope you enjoy it and it makes a difference. smile

Mylittlepuds Tue 02-Oct-12 10:41:53

I want reports back! X

dieciocho yes I did it happened quite quickly. I'd had swollen hands/feet/face for about a week also had obstetric cholestasis (sp?) so was itchy. Not sure what my bp was on the Wednesday but they wanted me in the next day to discuss induction.

That night I was being sick every half hour with horrendous migraine including seeing spots. When I went in I had +++ protein so they induced straight away. Dd was born ten hours later at 36+1. During labour my bp went up to 185/153. The previous couple of weeks I'd had quite a few hypos which worried them too. I had had diamorphine but I'm quite sure the placenta was black and shrivelled when it came out!

dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 11:09:30

Blimey Spotty, so it'd be pretty hard to miss, then?

You poor thing.

BonaDea Tue 02-Oct-12 11:17:00

Thanks, puds, I'll report back! It should arrive tomorrow... Can't wait to just have the transmittor sitting on my desk to glance at whenever I feel like it (I just hope that what I see isn't too surprising!!).

spotty - that sounds horrible. I haven't read up too much about pre-eclampsia but is a woman more prone to it if she's had it before? Times like this when it is quite nice actually to have such frequent appointments and close monitoring!

I'm envy of your monitor!

I think you have a 25% more chance of getting it again but my consultant said hopefully it won't happen so suddenly this time!

I'm also glad for all the appointments can you imagine only having two scans the entire pregnancy shock!! I'd be a nervous wreck!

BonaDea Tue 02-Oct-12 13:56:33

Well, fx it won't hit this time!!

I have my 20 weeks scan on 8 November and the detailed cardiac scan on the 9th, so I am just wishing that time away. I am so worried that something will be shown up and the elation of the 12 week scan has faded very quickly!

Well they spend aged on the heart, just to warn you, it always worries me but nothing has ever shown up smile I have a 28 week scan and consultant appointment tomorrow grin

Mylittlepuds Tue 02-Oct-12 17:27:53

Oh God - barrel of laughs a diabetic pregnancy isn't it?! If it's any reassurance our 20 week scan with my DS was lovely as it was so detailed. It was almost like one of those fancy 4D ones because of the high tech equipment they use - so there is a benefit smile. I know it's such a sorry though. I'm already worried and not had my 12 week yet.

newbie6 Tue 02-Oct-12 17:31:52

Hi all,

I am due my 24 week scan tomorrow. I got my 20 wk scan and was told everything was normal but wasn't told to expect a detailed heart scan, as far as I know my scans from now on are just growth scans, is that correct?


dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 17:33:13

Even though our 20-week scan was only 2.5 weeks ago, it's a bit of a blur. I just wanted to hear the word "normal". And I did, repeatedly.
My mum sat there going "Oh, isn't technology amazing?!" - not like the 1980s, I suppose!

dieciocho Tue 02-Oct-12 17:34:56

Hello again newbie, yep, I'm the same - 20-week done, next one will be 28, then 32, then finally 36 to decided when to induce me.
I had no mention of detailed cardiac scans either.

I had 20 week, 24 week, and have 28, 32, 34 & 36 already booked. The do growth and uterine arteries

BonaDea Wed 03-Oct-12 13:04:40

Hi - at my hospital it seems to be standard for diabetic pregnancies to have an extra 20 week scan which is purely checking baby's heart. That is conducted by an obstetric cardiologist specialist and my understanding is they do it because of the increased risk of neural tube / heart defects...

Might just be that different hospitals do it in different ways...

All ok at my 28 week scan grin bp 106/66 baby estimated 2lb13! +++glucose and ++ketones confused

BonaDea Wed 03-Oct-12 14:14:24

Hi spotty - glad to hear that baby is fine and your bp is good.

Ouch - you must be feeling pretty rotten if you had +++ glucose and ketones. Did they want to keep you in or test you again or anything?

In other news, my navigator arrived today!! Have put the batteries in everything and set up the transmitter and receiver. Just wondering when the best time is to insert the sensor... Given I will have to calibrate 1, 2, 10 hours after I put it in, it is probably a bit late if I do it now as I'll have to stay up til midnight which is practically an impossibility for me these days.

I figure it should work if I put it in at 8.30pm, then test at 9.30, 10.30 and then again 10 hours later which will be 6.30am. Is that how everyone else does it? Would rather not have the faff of doing it at work tomorrow during the day and can't wait til the weekend each time I guess.

newbie6 Wed 03-Oct-12 22:07:13

Hi all,

Had my 24 wk scan today and all fine apart from they said the baby was measuring in the 95th percentile. They don't seem worried but I'm now panicking that my baby is too big? I have only put on a stone and my glucose control is good, my hba1c is 6.1 so am feeling a little disappointed that baby is on the large side according to their charts? Has anyone else experienced this and can anyone explain what 95th percentile actually means? They told me they would measure baby again in 4 weeks and see where they are on the chart and as I said, they didn't seem that worried but I am!


Which bits were 95th centile? If it's femur length, head circ etc then it's nothing to do with diabetes, just a bigger-than-average baby. If it's stomach circ then it could be to do with diabetes - I got told the best way to avoid this is basically to never have an after-meal spike of more than 8mmol. Easier said than done...

If head circ, femur length and stomach circ are all on a similar centile then there shouldn't be a problem, there's unlikely to be a problem anyway but it might just need monitoring which it sounds like they're doing anyway. Also bear in mind that u/s scans are notoriously inaccurate for fetal measurements really.

BonaDea I felt fine and they weren't bothered I didn't feel like my levels were high at all (hasn't tested at that point). My nurse thinks I might be having hypos in the early hours do got to do the 2am tests!

newbie agree with Rue, look on your charts and see where all the plots are mind are all average at the moment. Your baby could have just had a growth spurt and it will have levelled off at next scan. Also they can be quite far out with their measurements. I really wouldn't worry smile

Mylittlepuds Thu 04-Oct-12 08:48:07

Newbie don't worry! My DS's stomach was literally off the centile charts by a mile! My HBA1C was around 5.5 throughout. That post meal spike thing is really interesting Rue. Noone mentioned that to me but I think if they had I would have quite happily throttled them - talk about achieving the impossible! Funnily enough last pregnancy I'd spike massively post meal before crashing right down so I wonder if that was the problem considering my overall levels were great. Will be interesting to see this time what happens as HBA1C not as low I don't think but less spikes.

BonaDea Thu 04-Oct-12 10:21:18

spotty - could well be. I know when I've had high readings, I tend to feel really groggy.

Mylittlepuds - my diabetes team has basically told me that avoiding spikes and crashes is THE key thing they look for in achieving "tight" control throughout pregnancy. That's why I eat probably less than average amounts of carb per day and tend to inject quite a long time before eating, so that the insulin is already working its magic by the time I get anything in my gob. The targets that I've been set are 8mmol within an hour after eating, and between 4-6 before the next meal. It is very very difficult (or as you say bloody impossible!) if you are eating 'standard' amounts of carbs because basically to get that low you have to have waaay to much fast acting insulin with your food. The only other way around it is to plan in a snack about 1-2 hours after eating to counter that inevitable hypo!

puds - I also need to ask you about the Navigator which I'm now proudly sporting on my lower tummy! What a nightmare I had with it last night. When I was doing the finger prick tests, the freestyle blood glucose meter seems to be giving me readings 1-2 mmol (whole mmols, not .1 or .2!) LOWER than my regular blood glucose meter (an Aviva Accu Chek which I like/trust).

So, that meant that when I was trying to calibrate the Navigator it kept saying I was hypo and that it couldn't calibrate. The alarms also woke me several times in the night saying I was 3.1 or 3.2 whereas my own meter was saying I was in the mid-4s. The fact that the blood glucose meter is so off whack makes me think that now the CGM will be calibrated incorrectly too.

Then this morning, as I was in the car it was telling me I was under 5mmol (which is below the legal driving limit) but when I checked on my other meter I was actually 6.7 or something!

Any top tips or similar experiences please?

Mylittlepuds Thu 04-Oct-12 10:56:26

Well BonaDea I'm actually quite annoyed that no one told me last time! I would say in that regard my control has been much better this time and not as high and low. Overall higher yes but not such dramatic peaks and troughs. Will be so interesting to see how the little mite's tummy fares this time. I was obsessed with HBA1C as that's what the consultant kept saying was THE most important thing. I can remember him saying that they 'still don't know' what the effects of swings were. I feel more relaxed now knowing things haven't been quite as turbulent!

Right. Navigator. When things are going swimmingly with it, no probs with calibration etc it's so fantastic. BUT it sounds like you have had annoying set up on your first time, which has happened to me a few times. Being 1mmol out isn't too bad but ideally it's normally 0.5 out, due to the 10 min time lag. When your arrow is vertical you should find this to be the case.

This morning what might have happened is you've had brekkie and it's obviously 'going up'. You prob would have found that 10 mins on your Navigator would have said 6.7 too.

Now when I first got mine I was very much using both my BG metre and Navigator. What my nurse told me to do was put your trust in the Navigator and don't test unless you are feeling hypo. The Navigator's strength is that it tells you when you're on the way down, so you can correct things with a glucose tab or two before you get to treating hypos. I find it most helpful not at meal times or even after meals - but I those hours where you're not really doing much. You don't need to test as the Nav has you 'covered'.

Is it calibrated now?

BonaDea Thu 04-Oct-12 11:15:33

Hi puds - it does seems weird that hba1c was the sole focus given by the consultant. It is obviously very important, but as you've said if the hba1c is an average and you're swinging about between high and low you can get a 'false' idea of what is going on. Actually, this was one of my main drivers for splashing out on CGM so I can see those peaks and troughs and try to deal with them. Glad you're feeling more 'steady' this time, and it will be interesting to see whether this baby is a different size!

Re your / your mw's advice: sounds very sensible, and I think you're right, I just have to trust the navigator and stop faffing about with my old meter, the freestyle strips AND the navigator itself.

DH and I slept in this morning because we had such a bad night with the thing beeping at me all night, having to get up to treat a 'hypo' (by this time just wanted to get the thing calibrated whether or not it was 'correct'), going to the loo etc. So, we were both shockingly late for work blush

The 6.7 thing is still bothering me though - I've given up on breakfasts completely as I just CANNOT seem to tolerate anything to eat at all until around 11am (my bg shoots up and won't come down without HUGE correction doses). So, I've been surviving on water and decaf tea/ coffee until about this time of day. Have just had by 12 units of novo I need to cover my tiddly little bowl of cereal, and just waiting for the navigator to confirm I'm on my way down before tucking in.

Thanks for your advice. I'm so glad we all have this thread!

Mylittlepuds Thu 04-Oct-12 11:29:17

Oh bless you!!!

You can't bloody go without breakfast! You must be starving. I totally sympathise though as prior to my current weird insulin sensitivity I was injecting scary amounts of insulin to cover a piece of toast and then crashing. The same as you actually 12 for a piddly bowl of porridge.

When this was happening I turned to eggs for breakfast! Eggs, sausage, mushrooms, tomato - and maybe a few beans.

I really do sympathise with the breakfast thing. It's so frustrating.

Mylittlepuds Thu 04-Oct-12 11:30:51

I'm glad too smile

Can't remember if I mentioned - had a tiny bit of bleeding yesterday, had a scan and baby fine at 11 weeks! Was so concerned after strange crash in insulin requirement. X

Mylittlepuds Thu 04-Oct-12 11:35:01

Bona just to give you some reassurance I'm about to go in a hot bath which always makes me hypo so did a finger prick test on the Nav. It's currently saying I'm 5.9 and my BG test reading was 5.4. I'd say that was pretty typical when you're 'steady'. It is great for what you're wanting it for in terms of understanding peaks and troughs.

BonaDea Thu 04-Oct-12 11:43:46

Great news about the scan smile. I had a little bleeding around the 7 weeks mark and was so worried, so it was lovely to see the little blob on screen (at 7 weeks it was just a blob attached to another blog / yolk sac!). Yesterday would have been great, though, to see those little arms and legs waving about.

What is your actual due date? I'm 3 April, so assuming I'd be induced maybe the 3rd week in March...

newbie6 Thu 04-Oct-12 20:16:46


Think it was stomach that they measured. I haven't really had post meal spikes so hopefully next scan baby will measure okay although they did say not to worry as measurements were still ok, just on the higher side. I test about 2 hrs and honestly feel like crying sometimes as seems whatever I do, it's never good enough. Does stress affect growth as I work for myself and work is manic which isn't helping either?

Thanks for ur replies!


Mylittlepuds Fri 05-Oct-12 08:06:43

Hi Bona - end of April so will be induced mid April.

Newbie In all honesty stress can affect the baby (low birth weight from what I've read so it doesn't look like you've a problem there!). But I really think it's stress stress not just stress if that makes sense. I felt the same when pregnant with DS1 - and similar to you work was stressful too - but he was fine. It's full on diagnosed anxiety and stress that can impact I think. The type of stuff that requires ADs, so honestly don't worry. Hope that helps smile

Mylittlepuds Fri 05-Oct-12 08:08:53

Also very jealous of your lack of spikes after meals! That seriously is great. Most diabetics struggle to ever get a handle on those.

BonaDea Fri 05-Oct-12 12:16:44

That is really amazing. So, when you test 1 hour after starting to eat, what kind of a number would you expect to see?

dieciocho Fri 05-Oct-12 14:59:35

Sorry to hear about bleeds; I had one too at 10 weeks and nearly cried. Scary stuff.
I'm 5 months today!

I discovered a problem last night with trying "new" foods/recipes - I had a meal that I'd never had before, tested 2 or 3 times before bed and everything looked fine.
I was 10.8 when I got up this morning - only knows what it had been doing for the 7 hours I was in bed.
From now on I will only eat foods I know, so that I know how my body/blood will react.

Wow, BonaDea, does that mean that you inject a whole hour before you eat? Do you ever go hypo before you eat?

I agree: HbA1C is a ridiculous measure of our well-being and control.

newbie6 Fri 05-Oct-12 22:26:22


Thanks for your comments, made me feel much better. About 1hr after my meals, I'm between 5 and 7. That said, occasionally I can be at 4 so reducing my novo rapid now. 1st trimester I was low all the time and have found in my 2nd trimester I've needed to go up.

I'm just testing every 2hrs to keep a close eye....the joyssmile


dieciocho Tue 09-Oct-12 09:09:50

We've now started buying things...oh dear.
We went to an NCT sale at the weekend and got a whole bag of clothes, but spent less than £5; amazing.
I had to rummage through boxes of vests etc to find enough non-gender-specific stuff, but it was ok in the end. I narrowly avoided drowning in all the pink frilly rubbish!

Now I just have to stop myself from thinking I've gone and jinxed everything...

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 11:17:09

Ugh. Diabetes is so frustrating and relentless sometimes. My levels were hovering around 10 all evening last night despite three separate correction doses. At times like that I just want to scream!!

Over the last couple of nights I've woken to check where I'm at at about 3am - and it's been about 7.8. In that scenario would you ladies correct or leave it? I've been leaving it then feeling guilty...

I'd correct it, but I'm pumping so corrections are very easy. When I was injecting I'd probably have left it.

newbie6 Tue 09-Oct-12 13:52:35

I would leave 7.8 too, if you want to correct maybe take 1 or 2 units and re test in an hour but only if you really want to correct. So frustrating sometimes isn't it! I just had chicken soup for lunch which was homemade and BG is 9.2......grrrr! x

newbie6 Tue 09-Oct-12 13:54:08

I would leave 7.8 too, if you want to correct maybe take 1 or 2 units and re test in an hour but only if you really want to correct. So frustrating sometimes isn't it! I just had chicken soup for lunch which was homemade and BG is 9.2......am normally fine after meals too but they did the same yesterday so must be something in the soup my BG doesn't agree with.......grrr!

dieciocho Tue 09-Oct-12 15:20:04

I'd leave 7.8 at that time of night. Unless...you suffer from serious Dawn Phenomenon (as I do), which would mean that by the time I got up at 7am, my blood sugar would be more like 10

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 15:55:23

Thanks ladies. I've had a fun day of over correcting hypos today. Arrrgghhh! Newbie I reckon you're making all us v jealous with your levels. They sound fab! I'd be chuffed with 9.2 an hour and a half after eating. Wild be just right for me as I find if I do hit the 7.8 I'm certain to hypo. And then I end up over correcting. Anyone else find if they hit target hypos are a problem?

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 15:56:15

Would be not wild be! Nothing about me is bloody wild nowadays - except my levels of course..

BonaDea Tue 09-Oct-12 18:34:11

Hello ladies! Sounds like everyone is having fun and games with the big D!!

Was at clinic today, which was fine. For the first time I got to listen in to baby's heartbeat. Was told I would have to wait til 16 weeks (am 14+6) but they gave it a shot and his / her heart was in there hammering away. Little one also decided to kick the doppler a couple of times which sounded like a big THUMP. Wee scamp!

I also got my latest Hba1C which was 5.5% which I was delighted with.

puds - there are only 2 ways around the hypo issue you describe: 1) eat significantly lower carb meals - this makes it much easier to stay in range an hour after eating because your levels are simply less likely to spike; or 2) inject enough Novo to get down to 8-ish after an hour but then PLAN to have a snack within 2 hours of eating to stave off the hypo. It's a fun game, right?!

I lost you! My level was just 2.8 after my dinner sad so now I feel crappy. It was 3.8 before but I stupidly can't remember what I gave myself insulin wise. I had white rice and then a malted milk. Now I'm all confused and have no apple juice or anything will have to tuck into dp's milk tray

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 19:37:52

Bona! That's fantastic! You should feel so proud of yourself! I'm dreading my first one.

Oh Spotty. Just tuck in and enjoy - it's medicinal after all!

I have medicinal wine gums and/or jelly babies with me at all times - unfortunately trying to keep such tight control means I've eaten 3 packs of wine gums over the last 10 days...eek!

Bona that's a fantastic result, well done!

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 21:40:11

I'm so worried sad my levels have been far from perfect and I just feel so guilty and scared. Does anyone else have these moments of convincing themselves the baby has been put at real risk? I needs some reassurance from you lovely ladies (real reassurance not DH repeatedly saying 'it was okay last time so it will be okay this time hmm

Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 22:08:10

Once again my levels have hovered around 9 all evening from around 5pm despite three seperate correction doses. I'm so worried and upset I feel like crying.

newbie6 Tue 09-Oct-12 22:19:41

Oh littlepuds, it is so hard and I don't think anyone can understand apart from other diabetics. Have you called your diabetic team to tell them about your BS to see if they can help? What I would say though is that 9 is not that bad so try not to beat yourself up. I don't know what insulin you are on and how many weeks you are but I read that your insulin requirements can shoot up massively whilst pregnant, especially 2nd trimester? I think you can also become insulin resistant so combined, it isn't going to help but I really think your readings aren't that bad. I have days when I have no idea why my sugars go up so quickly and are so hard to bring down and the only way I control it now is taking BS readings every couple of hours so I can try and understand how certain foods affect me? Appreciate that is probably excessive but maybe try that for a few days to see if you can spot any patterns? Either way, you sound like you are doing everything you can and hopefully your diabetic team can offer some help too as well as others on here. The diabetic support forum is good too?


Mylittlepuds Tue 09-Oct-12 22:50:47

Thanks newbie smile me and DH have just had a lovely long chat and it's helped calm me down, have also text my lovely diabetes nurse. It's so so hard not to beat yourself up isn't it? I just can't remember it being this stressful and my DS is only 18 months! I think I must have blanked it out. My HBa1c was 7.5 at conception and I just don't think it's improved massively. I was so much tighter last pregnancy and I just feel so guilty! That coupled with nausea and only fancying daft foods (not veg!) is just hard. Big moan over. I'm sorry I'm always the negative one needing reassurance! I'm supposed to be the experienced one! Thanks so much for replying - I really do appreciate it smile

puds when do you take your basal dose (lantus or levemir or whichever)? Just wondering whether you could split your dose as it sounds like its maybe not covering you till bedtime (if that's when you take it). Even tho they're both meant to have a flat profile for a whole 24 hours I know of lots of people who get better results when it's split.

Re high levels, with DS I was given steroids at 23 and 31 weeks to help his lung develop, my readings were over 20 no matter how much insulin I took, for nearly 5 days! He was fine. Just do tr best you can.

For hypos, do you do the 15/15 rule? Test, treat with 15g fast acting carbs (equal to 4 jelly babies), wait 15 mins and test again, treat again if reading no better with another 15g fast carbs. If not, might be worth a try, otherwise please ignore the granny sucking eggs nature of the post grin

I second splitting your basal dose if you're not already, what time do you give it? I've woken up to 10.2 I didn't test after my hypo episode last night because I fell asleep.......for nine hours blush

dieciocho Wed 10-Oct-12 14:52:25

Remember that long-acting insulin isn't a 24hr does, despite what manufacturers might say - Lantus and Levemir both tend to be 20hrs.

My hospital says to adjust doses only if you've been having high/low readings for 2 days straight, basically, can you see a pattern?

I've never heard the 15/15 rule Rue, I might try it.

dieciocho Wed 10-Oct-12 14:53:25

Sorry, not "does", but "dose"

BonaDea Wed 10-Oct-12 14:54:54

Splitting the dose only really works with Levemir - Lantus is much slower releasing and so it doesn't really work to split it. I'd say if you're on Levemir, definitely give it a shot. I'm on way more overnight than during the day.

And don't beat yourself up. It is just extremely hard and also gets so so tedious to be constantly worrying.

I kind of think to myself if I am in range and where I want to be 90% of the time, then that will have to be good enough. It is not an exact science and you WILL be higher or lower than you want to be at given points, you just have to keep tying.

I would definitely think about cutting down on your carb intake. It is really the most straight forward way to keep things steady (not saying it is easy!).

People in dc2 or more can we talk about breast feeding? Dd was in SCBU for a whole and for various regrettable reasons I only expressed for about a week. In that time the hypos were pretty bad was that down to the expressing or just post baby hormones?

Aldo is anyone planning in expressing prior to the birth? Is it inevitable baby will be in SCBU? Is their any argument in saying their sugar levels are more likely to regulate if they stay with me/on boob constantly? Umm think that's it for now!

If you BF or express it eats sugar! I had to reduce my daily insulin levels down to about 75% of pre-pregnancy rates and even so was eating sweets at an alarming rate - every time I fed the baby I had to feed me as well. So likely it's that more than the post-PG hormones.

I'll plan on hand expressing colostrum from about 35 weeks, my MW mentioned it last time round but then DS arrived at 31 weeks so I never actually got round to it grin he was in NICU for 5 weeks but only due to being prem rather than anything diabetes related.

DD never went to SCBU at all, she stayed with me throughout - she did get cup fed some formula on the 2nd night, as her sugar levels were slightly low, but nothing too bad. So definitely not inevitable. Not sure whether being with you would make them more likely to regulate or not though tbh. And since DD (and DS actually) was a C/S delivery she was sleepier than they would have liked - seems common for sections though.

PS I BF DD for a year, and mix fed DS for a year (he was on prescription formula for weight gain for a while). So it's totally possible but bloody hard work!

Thanks Rue that's really helpful smile dd was so sleepy too people think its lovely but it's really hard work especially when they just want to sleep instead of feed!

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 07:05:40

Thank you ladies for your lovely pick me up and admivr yesterday. I was at work so couldn't reply but felt quite teary!

I do need to go back to basics with the 15 hypo rule but with the hypos I've been having its do hard not to panic!! Will def ask nurse about splitting long acting as my levels seem to be randomly starting to rise around bedtime - perhaps just running out of steam?

I BF DS for 10 months. My levels were great actually but there was the occasional 'whoa' hypo, nothing serious though. I think I was about on 75% of pre preg insulin too.

DS wasn't at all in SCBU but he too had low BS that was rectified by formula.

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 07:06:28


Is there not more sugar in breast milk than formula?

dieciocho Thu 11-Oct-12 07:56:09

I had no idea you could get any milk before birth Spotty and Rue; that would be a way of avoiding any formula that the hospital may think necessary to raise baby's sugar levels, assuming colostrum contains enough... -
who was worried about that a while back...? BonaDea?

I had my fundal height done for the first time yesterday - it's perfect, right in the middle of the graph, so I will stop asking Qs about weight gain : )

Also, doctor said that my occasional 8ish readings when I get up in the morning could be because the stress of getting up raises blood sugar levels - this sounds far-fetched to me.
Has anyone else ever heard this?

It's colostrum rather than milk - a really thick yellowish colour, they only need minute amounts of it. It's what you produce before your milk comes in (which happens on about day 3 give or take). The feeding before that is to stimulate your body into producing some for them to take.

The Kellymom website (can't link on phone) has tons of really good info about BFing.

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 08:13:51

I was adamant I wanted to EBF, which I did for 10 months but the hospital were adamant I must give DS formula top ups in order to boost his initial BG. I didn't question it to be honest as was just getting to grips with BFing. And in the first three days it's just your colostrum. I'll certainly ask the question today at my clinic and report back!

Diec - I get the same thing. Perfect throughout night and then at about 7am they start to rise. I think it could be stress you know.

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 08:14:58

Funnily enough they rise faster and quicker the busier and more stressed I am!

My nurse said its the morning hormone surge which makes them rise

BonaDea Thu 11-Oct-12 12:43:47

Hi all - pleased someone has raised BFing as I'm already worried about it.

On the 'stress getting up' point. I think your doc is really clumsily describing dawn phenomenon which I am really troubled with. Your body around dawn just starts to release hormones in preparation for getting up and getting going. Wouldn't describe it as 'stress' in the psychological sense, but suppose it is stress on your body... Anyway, the effect of that can be to raise your blood glucose steadily from around 5am. If I wake and am above 7, I will often take 1u Novo just to stop it.

On breastfeeding... I am sooooo keen for me not to be forced into giving ANY formula if I can avoid, and if so definitely not by bottle. Rue - was cup feeding alright in the sense that although baby was getting formula at least he/she was not getting nippple confusion?

And does anyone understand the justification? Why can our breastmilk not be used to raise the baby's sugar levels? Is it because colustrum is not as 'rich' in the first few days until your milk comes in? Can I fight back on this?

I've also heard about expressing before birth but no clue how it actually works. If it is an alternative to using formula I will definitely be looking into it. Does anyone know of someone doing it successfully?

Bona if baby just has some formula in the first week then goes on to ebm their gut will go back to being a 'virgin gut'. It's much more dense that bm though I'm conflicted. Need to know how much sugar is in colostrum. I don't know anyone who's expressed pre birth but I'm going to try it. I know of people who have breast fed adopted children put bodies are so clever!

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 14:37:42

We gave DS the formula with a syringe. After we had two levels above the level needed (can't remember what it was) that was it. To be honest the hospital I had him at is a specialist BF hospital and only gives out formula in cases of medical need. I don't think they would have insisted if it wasn't necessary. I was that worried he was 'low' I would have given him a vat of it! No probs with BFing as a result but I can totally understand your concern. The nurse I asked today didn't know but I'd love to know if our milk is sufficient!

My hospital want you to hand express (into a syringe, v fiddly!) pre birth precisely to avoid having to give formula, so I guess it must be. I know colostrum is very rich in nutrients and since LO is only taking v small amounts in the first couple of days (10 ml a feed was considered exceptional for DS) it must be full of sugar, surely?!

Sorry Bona I forgot to answer the question! Yes, cup feeding avoids any nipple confusion - DS was cup fed expressed milk fairly often when in SCBU on overnight feeds when I wasn't there, it never put him off (once the lazy effort had learnt how to suck!).

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 15:39:42

Well I never. Very annoyed that it wasn't explained to me that you can rely just on the colostrum to boost their levels back up. They did have mine in a syringe too as I was effectively 'milked' by a midwife! Least I know for the time. But like I said no probs BFing with DS. In fact we had problems ever getting him to take a bottle of expressed milk which he wouldn't do for nine long months!

I found this info on colostrum. Not sure how accurate it is. Interesting though

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 18:15:33

Oh my God so pissed off!!!!!!! I actually can't believe that. I would never have given him formula (on the first days of his life no less!) if I'd have been told. That is quite shocking. Thanks for posting it.

I remember dd couldn't absorb the formula so it's makes sense that colostrum would be better. I'm definitely going to look into the expressing a bit more...

Mylittlepuds Thu 11-Oct-12 19:34:57

I have heard about colostrum 'harvesting'. I was leaking it from about 28 weeks last time so might stock up!

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 12:06:30

First trimester HBA1c 6.5. Not fantastic but better than 7.5 which is what I booked in with at 2 weeks pregnant! Does anyone have any info about HBA1C and how it correlates with risks? My hba1c was far better last time around but I'm cutting myself some slack in that I tend to have a toddler swinging from my neck!

How are you all?

HbA1c is a fairly rubbish way of assessing any risks afaik - it's better to look at the overall pattern of post-meal spikes etc to try and get a more stable level all the time. If you're swinging from high to low and back you can still have a good HbA1c cos it's just an average.

Which reminds me...must get my book out and write all my readings down!

I've run out of test strips and can't get any until Monday according to my ever so helpful pharmacy hmm

BonaDea Fri 12-Oct-12 12:38:50

Spotty - you can't do without test strips until Monday, that's ridiculous, not to mention dangerous. If you drive, it's illegal! Tell the pharmacy they'll have to do you a special order or go to another pharmacy and see if they'll let you borrow some pending a prescription (i've had several do this for me before).

puds - that is a very respectable hba1c. I found a long and complex article about risk correlation, but to be honest it was pretty depressing so I deleted it and now can't find it again! As Rue says, though, what's important is avoiding highs and lows, so although it is important to have a good hba1c it isn't the be all and end all. Just keep test test testing!

My bump has suddenly just gone "pop" and stuck out. It was literally overnight on Tuesday night into Wednesday morning (which funnily enough was the day I went from 14+6 to 15+0). I've now had two people I don't know ask me if I'm pregnant instead of people I do know just eyeing me strangely as if undecided whether to ask. Am actually delighted as it just makes it all feel more real!

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 12:39:33

Spotty get them to give you an emergency prescription - demand it! Mine does it often as I'm not the most organised when it comes to strips. You need them!

Yes I will go and see them tomorrow. I have a few left. It annoys me because I always ask for four packs and only get one which only lasts about five days!

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 12:46:25

Thanks ladies. Well that's positive for me as although generally higher my levels have been a lot steadier this time around.

Bona - I can't wait for a proper bump! I'm getting a lot of 'is she isn't she' looks. Had my 12 week scan yesterday so at least I can now say 'yes I am!'

BonaDea Fri 12-Oct-12 13:37:43

spotty - that is just silly. What does your repeat prescription say? I had them specifically right on mine 4x50 (ie 4 boxes) and I get that every single time. For goodness sake, you have a chronic medical condition and you are pregnant - they can't drip feed you the medical supplies you need to stay alive!!

puds - sorry, didn't catch that on the thread about your scan. YAY! Was everything fine and dandy then I take it?

There are quite a few people at work for example that don't know still. I am not being secretive about it, but at the same time I'm not the type to make a big announcement, so I am just telling people if / when it comes up and letting the rumour mill do its job. The looks I'm getting are quite amusing! I have also not put anything on facebook. I just feel like the people I'm close to will know because I've told them - the rest I don't feel a burning urge to tell.

I don't know because they keep the repeat and I phone them. The past few times they've sent me the ketone test strips instead of bm ones. I really hate getting repeats it's such a hassle! And they're all so miserable in there.

What's everyone eating for breakfast? I don't like milk or eggs and find it so hard! Give me a pop tart anyday wink

Spotty - call your doctors surgery and ask to speak to your docs secretary. (s)he'll be able to do you a prescription on the spot, and can normally up the number of pots of strips you're getting, especially if you explain that they're lasting you less than a week. it's ridiculous!

What strips do you have? Mine are for the contour if that's any good? Shout and I can stick some in the post 1st class if you PM me the info.

BonaDea Fri 12-Oct-12 14:12:53

Definitely. I get totally pissed off if I have to go in more than twice a month, never mind every 5 days!!!!

I have the Glucomen one, but thanks for the offer smile

Oh I've still got my old tester I think, I can just use that! Ill have to have a look when I get home

You can buy strips over the counter by the way - I had to do that once when I just forgot them when I went to my parents for the week. Expensive though, they're about £25 for a pot of 50 for the Contour and I imagine others are similar.

BonaDea Fri 12-Oct-12 16:16:22

It is often cheaper to buy a meter over the counter, most of which come with a pot of - say - 17 strips included in the price. Might be cheaper than buying the strips and then you have a spare meter into the bargain!

I really, really want a Chinese but have avoided it so far this pregnancy as I never know how much insulin to have. I would have half a portion of chow mein and a portion of crispy shredded beef (in a sweet chilli sauce). I have no clue? And should I do my injection half an hour earlier?

Carbs and Cals app reckons 40g carbs for the chow mein and didn't have crispy beef in there, but 31g for a portion of spare ribs (figured that was the same sort of sauce?).

Worth getting the app, it's very good and shows a photo of the food on a dinner plate so you can judge the size of each portion.

Thanks Rue I had a look on My Fitness Pal and it reckoned no carbs for the beef but that made me hmm I'm really not as knowledgeable about this stuff as I should be sad

Bramblesinafield Fri 12-Oct-12 18:17:56

Sorry to crash in, but feel for you ladies with sore fingers. My son has t1 and we pay for continuous glucose monitoring using a dexcom monitor - wonder if any of you have clinics which could loan you one. We buy the sensors ourselves and whilst they're not cheap, we restart them after a week and get 2-3 weeks out of each one.


Looks freaky, but isnt really and so worth it!

dieciocho Fri 12-Oct-12 20:02:04

Spotty, when I started to test more often (10 times a day) when TTC, I asked my GP to increase my test strip prescription to 8 boxes each time.
The pharmacists don't like it because I clear them out, but at least I only have to get a repeat prescription every 6-8 weeks or so...

Re: breakfast - I normally eat a packet of oatcakes (nice slow release) with butter, which is my one weakness. I blame my mother; she adores the stuff!

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 20:26:57

Oh God I'm running out of strips all of the time. I get four boxes of 50 a month - and I'm on CGM! And sometimes I still run out! Luckily my pharmacy is lovely and knows what I'm like. I have come across pharmacists though who hate it! And I've had plenty of run ins with nurses who think I test too much. My lovely nurse now is amazing and thinks the more the better.

I'm on toast for brekkie cos it's all I've been able to stomach :-( Also go through stages of porridge but despite it apparently being slow release I find it still rockets my levels! Anyone else find this?

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 20:28:25

Thanks Brambles :-) a couple of us here are on CGM. I love it - would imagine it has changed your life in terms of giving you some peace of mind for your son.

Bramblesinafield Fri 12-Oct-12 21:08:00

That's awesome that you're on cgm. I hope you are funded for it. My boy is on a combined pump, animas vibe. It is fabulous and given us all back some peace of mind.

Bramblesinafield Fri 12-Oct-12 21:10:06

He's struggling with breakfasts, actually. We've just had a discussion about him going back onto shredders - he has been trying out different weetqbix. Bless him, he's been going high mid morning no matter how we tweak timings of insulin, basals and ratios. Fortunately we're off to the families of kids with diabetes conference in a few weeks, so if we're not sorted by then, we can ask other families and world experts.

Mylittlepuds Fri 12-Oct-12 21:14:28

Weetabix absolutely rocket my BGs - I don't know why but a few diabetics I know say the same thing! It's a shame as I'm craving the chocolate ones as we speak.

No not funded...had a PCT request turned down so we are appealing. It costs us a small fortune but I wouldn't be without it. It's by no means a precise art but just gives me extra reassurance.

Spotty If you want to learn more about it, I've heard good things about the BDEC course (Bournemouth centre's online learning, but anyone can register and complete it). It's here - one day I'll get round to it too!

I guess I'm lucky, I was brought up in the days of exchanges being 10g carbs, and having a prescribed number of them that I had to eat every day so the whole family got pretty good and working out what was what.

Bramblesinafield Fri 12-Oct-12 21:54:35

That's helpful, puds. I'll tell him as he's getting so fed up with it. Back to shreddies in the morning! Yep to cost, but so worth it.

Thanks Rue I've looked at a DAFNE course but I couldn't do it when it was available and now there's a massive wait apparently as in years

dieciocho Sat 13-Oct-12 09:11:06

I have registered with the Bournemouth website...it's a bit basic IMO. However, if you don't know how to count carbohydrates in the "old" 10g exchange way, then maybe it would be good for you.

5.6 before dinner...... 5.6 an hour after dinner! Think it will be low in another hour?

Mylittlepuds Sat 13-Oct-12 18:53:24

I would be Spotty - massively so! This is the thing with me though - even if it was 7.8 an hour and a half after it would take me too low. Would it with you generally?

Well if it's 1 or 2 higher then I'm usually OK, I'm thinking it will go low as I only had salad and a pitta for dinner, maybe I'll go and eat another pitta now then test in a hour because I can't be dealing with hypos and have nothing yummy enough in the house to make it worthwhile!

Mylittlepuds Sat 13-Oct-12 19:12:26

I've had a white chocolate Magnum and several coconut macaroons for dinner...

Mmm yum! Dp saved me a banana and a piece of fudge from his pick n mix. Just tested again was 7.0 maybe I shouldn't have had the extra pitta?!

Mylittlepuds Sat 13-Oct-12 20:28:08


Mylittlepuds Sat 13-Oct-12 20:36:15

How annoying is it when people say 'oh no sorry, I forgot, you can't have a biscuit/piece if cake/nice thing...you're diabetic'.

I just can't be arsed to explain sometimes and so nod along.

Also 'Oh I know a girl who has diabetes...she's got it really bad. Have you got it bad?'.

More annoying things please!

Also I've been having a weird double vision thing going on the last couple of days but the doctor couldn't find anything. I'm having my retinal screening done Thurs but he said as I've never had any issues before its unlikely I'd go from having no problems to severe problems. I'm not sure if its just my anxiety (I suffer severe anxiety) but it's worrying me regardless. Any advice?

Also have any of you developed anxiety as a result of diabetes?

Oh type 1 is that the bad one? Is one I get quite often!

No anxiety but my eyes go really bad when pregnant. Make sure you go to a regular opticians. I had to get glasses last time and still have them now. Apparently your lenses can change shape when pregnant. Anyway the optician says my eyes are fine but my brain can't cope with the changes hmm straight after I had dd I literally couldn't focus on anything but it did get better. Now at 29 weeks I can't see a thing without my glasses!

Mylittlepuds Sat 13-Oct-12 20:55:46

That's really interesting Spotty - thank you. It does seem like it's focus. You might have cracked it! It does give me a headache though (I don't generally get them) and is worse when staring at screens/am tired. It's hard sometimes not to blame EVERYTHING on diabetes.

dieciocho Sun 14-Oct-12 09:35:29

Other annoying things? - told someone the other day that I had diabetes and she asked if that was the low sugar type or the high sugar type - wtf?

Also, it annoys me MASSIVELY the way the media never differentiates between us and Type 2s - they're such different conditions and I just envisage the public tut-tutting about how all diabetics have bad diets/lead sedentary lives/are over-weight/it's self-inflicted whenever there's news story about how those things are increasing the levels of Type 2 in the UK and squeezing £ out of the NHS.

I work bl00dy hard to be healthy and have a condition that I had no control over developing.


dieciocho Sun 14-Oct-12 09:38:32

Apologies to anyone reading this who has Type 2, but leads a wonderfully healthy lifestyle!

Those things annoy me too!

Bramblesinafield Sun 14-Oct-12 14:10:03

I'm in a support group for mums of t1 children - a few of the mums have t1 too and we're on it in a massive way complaining to media who don't make the distinction.

I was told 'oh, is he diabetic because you didn't give him enough protein, you're veggie aren't you?' Grrrrrr. I also get the cross feelings about 'the bad sort' too.

The carbs and cals book is available on amazon - bought a copy for my parents as dad is type 2, but beer and cheese induced (and so much calmer since he's been injecting).

newbie6 Sun 14-Oct-12 14:10:41

I agree, wish media would differentiate and actually EDUCATE people on the difference between the 2 types as they might find that may help reduce numbers with type 2 as opposed to labelling diabetics as one category.

My mum has type one too. It really confuses people because they're always told type one isn't hereditary I just tell them it's complicated!

My levels haven't been above 7.0 all day, can I have a biscuit?! grin

Here you go spotty biscuit (my first one!)

So turns out I am having hypos at 1/2am and sleeping through. Shall I reduce 1 unit at a time or two? I am currently having 16 of levemir at night

Bramblesinafield Mon 15-Oct-12 09:55:52

When my son had this issue the clinic said to split his levemir, but we got assertive so they put him on a pump instead smile problem solved. Would a chat with your specialist nurse help?

I already split Brambles and don't meet the criteria for a pump unfortunately. It's not something that usually happens just pregnancy related!

Bramblesinafield Mon 15-Oct-12 10:16:54

sad sad face for you. Is there a case for the pump whilst you're pregnant?

I used to take the cautious route - I suppose it depends how wonky you feel if you go high by reducing two units. W got to the point where we were feeding slow gi suppers a although I'm sure you're already the. Bloody disease!

Ds' is hereditary through the coeliac and hyperthyroid route.

Doubt it, only got a max of eight weeks left eek!! It doesn't help that I'm so hungry all the time just about to tuck into my third second breakfast grin

Bramblesinafield Mon 15-Oct-12 10:29:20

smile keep carbing!

BonaDea Mon 15-Oct-12 11:24:53

spotty - what time do you have dinner? If you are more than 4 hours from dinner at the point you are dropping low, then you know it is not your evening fast-acting to blame. So, yes, you need to drop your Levemir. I would try for two units at first, but you'll need to set your alarm for your usual 'hypo time' to check whether that is stabilising you, or whether perhaps you're rising instead. If rising, add back another unit.

Such a shame for the wait for DAFNE - this really angers me because once again people are being given the tools for good control - test strips and insulin - without being given any proper guidance on how to use them. However, I know I have said this before but check out Think Like a Pancreas for tips on how to properly carb count. Also buy the Collins Little Gem calorie counter book which is handbag size. And finally, the BDEC course mentioned above is actually pretty good IF you click through all the various links and exercises. You can do it in about 10 mins if you don't explore all the parts of the site, but if you do it gives you a good headsup.

Brambles - splitting Levemir is actually very effective for most people and in my experience is not just a fob off from medical teams (although of course we get plenty of those too!!) wink Glad your son got a pump - I think if anyone deserves it, kids do.

For your son's breakfast, I would try giving him something which is not carb-based. Breakfast is the hardest meal for many of us because of Dawn Phenomenon and so at that time he might be better with something like a boiled egg or an omelette with cheese and bacon (or no bacon if you are veggie). Cereal is a double whammy because the cereal itself is very carby, but so is milk because of the lactose and for me liquid based carbs (in this case the lactose in the milk) goes into my system much faster than solids and leaves me high...

Oh, and another tip for bread lovers. The best bread I have found readily available in the supermarkets is the Burgen Soya and Linseed bread at just 11.2g carbs per slice for a full size slice. Compare that to 17g for many other thick cut breads. It is also full of seeds and releases much more slowly - and so avoiding spikes - than other breads...

Thanks Bona we eat quite early for dd so definitely levemir. Ill drop back two tonight and test at 1 ish. Got nurse Wednesday anyway and she's really good.

I like the Vogel soya and linseed bread yum! I will check out all those links/books etc thank you! smile

Bramblesinafield Mon 15-Oct-12 11:40:55

Thanks - we have decided to do some basal testing to make sure that the underlying basal is ok before we start tinkering with bolus ratio etc - that's the plan this week! Carb free brekkies.

Interesting what you say about the milk too. I had wondered about adding in a fruit yoghurt as protein tends to stabilise levels - he'll get enough of that from a quorn and scrambled egg brekkies though.

Think the split levemir would have been ok, just that at this point he was already on 8 injections a day and w getting more and more distressed. The pump is a godsend, particularly now it is linked to the sensor and we get an all in one download.

Isn't it brilliant that we are understanding so much more about how it works? Knowledge is the key to a healthier life.

BonaDea Mon 15-Oct-12 11:42:54

No worries, good luck with dropping it back, but that should sort you out. You might find if you get that sorted it also helps you to be more stable the following day. I think after hypos when I've dropped way down then shoot up again afterwards I tend to get on that zigzag pattern for at least 12 hours afterwards!

On our colustrum collection discussion earlier, I found this thread on the other forum I post on where lots of T1 mums have been thinking about the same issue. Worth a look: diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php/topic,2371.new.html#new

Yep plenty of zig zagging going on today. 6-8-3. At least I don't have work today it's always more difficult to pay attention when at work!

dieciocho Mon 15-Oct-12 14:34:25

Obviously, after hypos and also hypers diabetics feel really tired, but do you feel that since being diagnosed you've become/felt even more tired in normal life?
I'm not talking about pregnancy now, but I rarely have the same energy levels as the "normal" people in my life (even if my blood's 5-8)
As a diabetic teenager I used to have a nap when I got home from school at 15:30; my DP thinks that's crazy!

Maybe it's because I'm lacto-ovo vegetarian, albeit with a very healthy diet...

BonaDea Mon 15-Oct-12 14:41:37

dieciocho - I have to say I think I've generally gotten off very lightly on the diabetes front and would broadly say that I feel the same now as I always did. I was diagnosed much later in life - relatively 'old' aged 28 (am now 33).

I do think one of the things you need to bare in mind is just the drudgery of a chronic condition - thinking about everything you stick in your gob, constant calculations, feeling guilty when you fall off the wagon in terms of what you eat / your levels... That tires me out mentally, although so far I don't really feel any physical effects.

Perhaps it could be something else? Thyroid or aneamia? Have you ever discussed it with your doctor? I feel like with levels as good as you describe you shouldn't feel unduly tired... (mind you, you probably risk getting lectured about your diet - I bet that happens a LOT).

BonaDea Mon 15-Oct-12 14:42:06

*bear in mind (my spelling has gone out of the window - baby brain?!)

dieciocho Mon 15-Oct-12 16:09:10

My thyroid was monitored regular at university, but nothing especially worrying ever showed up. My anaemia test at my first ante-natal appointment was normal too.
I'm not prepared to "blame" my vegetarianism; that's what meat-eaters do!

dieciocho Mon 15-Oct-12 16:10:32

Blimey BonaDea, 28 is old! I was 9, so remembering life/diet/energy levels before diabetes is kind of hard.

BonaDea Mon 15-Oct-12 16:17:06

Doubt your diet has anything to do with it - think meat eaters are more likely to be sluggish (I am an ardent carnivore). I'd mention again the next time you see them, why not?

I am constantly tired but have something similar to muscular dystrophy to blame for that! Hypos whack me out though!

Mylittlepuds Mon 15-Oct-12 20:53:51

Bona I was 28 too!! Strange. I blamed myself for so long until I got the GAD cell test which confirmed it was T1. I've always been slim but as I had such a 'fun' lifestyle, going out with friends, drinking etc I somehow thought I'd brought it on myself. At least we didn't have to go through childhood/teen years/early 20s with it. I can't imagine how hard it must be for people.

Spotty I can't cope reading your levels! You would think mine were a horror story...eg - wake up at about 5.5 up to 10/11 before back to about 8ish within an hour and a half (and that's a good day). Sometimes I mess up like this afternoon and spend a few hours hovering around 10 before a correction dose kicks in (which thoroughly upsets and frustrates me). Is this typical T1ers or am I just crap?!

puds I was 12 when I was diagnosed and it was New Year's Eve! Well tbh I think my control could be really could if I concentrated more. This thread is really spitting me on though! I just love chocolate blush and hate testing! I don't seem to get those post meal spikes

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 07:50:43

Spotty I was diagnosed on new Year's Eve too! It totally ruined the party that my parents had planned as I was rushed into A&E by ambulance. Oops.

I had a KFC. My mum had tested my sugar level and it was 27 but they didn't want me in until the next day confused

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 07:57:12

Puds, remind us how pregnant you are.
It's just I had days like that earlier on in my pregnancy. I felt it was because I wasn't accurate enough with my breakfast Novorapid dose.

Re: time of diagnosis - I'm glad I was diagnosed pre-adolescence (9) as it meant I was still obedient enough to follow the advice of nurses and parents in order to manage my diabetes relatively well. If I had been a rebellious teenager, I would have been a very different story!

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 08:00:30

Me too Spotty :-(

Right I'm going to channel you today Spotty and try harder!! I can't imagine what it must have been like for you being diagnosed at 12 but perhaps you are more 'at one' with it than me as every hypo still strikes the fear of God into my heart!

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 08:06:11

Hi diec - I'm 12 + 4. So even if breakfast post meal test okay breakfast bolus could still affect lunch post meal?

I bet it was def easier to comply at 9 - if it'd had a got me at say 15 I'd have been a bloody nightmare!!!!

I am terrible to live with at mo as when my levels spend any 'additional' time out of range I get so frustrated and upset. I don't think I'll calm down until the heart test is out the way. I honestly think a diabetic pregnancy is so stressful! Do others feel this way too?

Hmph, seems I'm spiking after breakfast. Upped my units by 2 for breakfast (now on 16 two slices of toast) and reading was 9.0. Stupid morning hormone surges, never get this when not pregnant!

Oh I was a nightmare teenager, spent a week in hospital after getting drunk and not doing my injections! In fact I spent many a weekend throwing up green bile all night because I was too embarrassed to do my injections I think I'm probably lucky to be alive!

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 08:21:15

"So even if breakfast post meal test okay breakfast bolus could still affect lunch post meal?" Puds, I'd say it could possibly. Then again, it could be hormones. Have you considered the effect of Dawn Phenomenon? Depends what time you're seeing 10-11 readings.
That 12-16 week time was pretty up and down for me (maybe not helped by the fact that we were on our summer holiday in France eating tonnes of croissants!)

I'm assuming diabetic pregnancy is more stressful than "normal" pregnancy, but I'll never know! Yeah, I'm not convinced I will want to do this a second time round - despite our wanting to have two children.

I still remember my first ever hypo really vividly - I was frightening; I was pulled out of whole-school assembly because I'd gone white as a sheet.

Now I'm quite far into the pregnancy I've stopped getting hypo warnings, had a 1.9 and didn't feel low at all!

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 09:38:18

This pregnancy was a 'surprise' and so I think it was a bit meant to be. If it hadn't have happened I'd have put serious thought into going through it all again. DH considering getting the snip after this one!!

I would have been the same as a teen. I was terrible. Talking about alcohol when you lot aren't preggers how far do you go? My limit is about 3/4 bottle of wine at absolute most as otherwise I face a day of quite serious hypos. I wouldn't mind having a glass or two whilst pregnant but I've really not fancied it.

Spotty I know 9 isn't the target but if I miss the 7.8 an hour and a half after my next aim is 9 two hours after. If I don't hit that then I get upset! In my first pregnancy targets varied hospital to hospital and I changed hospitals half way through. I remember being totally flabbergasted as I'd been asked to hit 7.8 within two hours after eating (which for me was a push) and then suddenly asked to do it in an hour and a half - that being when my levels normally peaked at that point after a meal! All was ok. It just shows you that there is a gold standard but not achieving that doesn't spell disaster, although it doesn't stop us worrying.

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 09:39:19

I lost all my hypo awareness last time Spotty. Had a few hairy 1.9ers only picked up by a random test. Scary!!

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 09:42:00

Diec you've made me feel better :-) I eat what I fancy really and so when I don't hit target I have a bit of a self blame thing going on - thinking I could survive off meat/veg/egg/salad and I'm just being selfish eating what I want. Of course that's not sustainable but it's the guilt that gets me!

Well I've just tested again and it's 6.8 so I'm thinking of doing my breakfast novo rapid an hour before eating tomorrow. This pregnancy was a surprise too, I had a coil in! My hospital likes you to be 7.8 an hour after eating <sigh>

I'm really not a big drinker tbh, we go out for 'special occasions' ones every few months maybe and then I get drunk and thoroughly regret it the next day!

Mmmm croissants, I'm so hungry all the time for lots and lots of carbs!

BonaDea Tue 16-Oct-12 09:53:19

I don't see how this isn't more stressful than a 'normal' pregnancy. It just must be. It is so worrying to know that just the simple act of eating something can be damaging your baby and the constant worry of testing, adjusting and calculating must take its toll.

I have 3 and a half weeks until my cardiac scan and just cannot WAIT for that to be over. Hopefully if all looks well at that stage I can relax into it a bit.

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 11:00:16

My hypo awareness is not great at the best of times; I'm told it's because I've been diabetic for over 20 years, so I'm less sensitive. That's why I'm glued to my monitor and need those 8 boxes of test strips each time I go to the pharmacy!

Re: alcohol, I really fancy a glass of wine these days. I'm looking forward to December when I'm off to a wedding (1 glass of wine allowed, I reckon!) and Christmas lunch (1 glass allowed again, in my opinion.)
When not pregnant, I had around 2 - 3 glasses of wine or 2 - 3 pints on a Saturday night and that was pretty much all.

BonaDea Tue 16-Oct-12 11:42:49

I had 100ml (and yes, I did measure it!) of wine on Saturday night, but didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. Think it was guilt.

Think I will have a couple of glass of champagne over the Christmas period. Hey, if I'm only having one drink per night, better make it something special, right?

I've also been drinking the Becks Blue 0% alcohol beers at home. They taste like real beer and really go well with things like curry when I would have otherwise have had a beer wink

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 12:56:12

Yes, I started off on 0% beer, but after about my 8th week the smell/taste of beer really turned my stomach - not that DP gave/gives a damn; still breathed/breathes it all over me. Yuck.
I'm still not interested in drinking beer even now at 24+ weeks.

BonaDea Tue 16-Oct-12 12:59:58

Probably better not to be craving it as it'll be a while yet.

I actually don't necessarily miss the taste of wine or beer or whatever, but I miss that slight warm buzz on a Friday night after a hard week and a few relaxing glasses.... wink

dieciocho Tue 16-Oct-12 16:32:48

Yep, I agree BonaDea, that "ah, the weekend" feeling.

Sooo with us all being induced.... is there anyway I can go in a pool next time does anyone know? This is what I would like but I don't want to be laughed at for my naivety wink

- Pessaries are fine
- ARM as last resort
- NO sytocinon
- Not on sliding scale until in established labour
- Intermittent monitoring, not continual
- Chance to use a pool!!
- Encouraged to be mobile rather than not even allowed up to go to the loo hmm

Umm think that's it, does any of that sound likely?

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 18:29:10

None of that was possible for me Spotty. BUT I was incredibly naive and took anything I was told as gospel. I had a horrible labour last time. Horrible. I blame it on the induction hormone mostly which led to me taking an awful form of pain relief called pethadine (the hormone makes labour five times as bad pain wise according to my midwife).

I want a wish list like yours this time, have kind of broached it with my team but was quickly told 'you'll want to do what's best for baby, won't you? Would be awful if something happened at that stage.' The top on my list is NOT having the hormone.

I now don't know what to do for the best. I'm glad you brought it up.

Well I had an awful time too which is why I want it to be different! The bastard hormone drip is the devil! I had diamorphine but they were so worried (I think that's the reason) that they only let me push for 30 minutes before getting the forceps out.... Surely with a second baby just the pessary and they'll pop out an hour later?! wink

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 18:41:22

Sorry Spotty I'm being an idiot - forgot you'd been through it all before. Hmmm yes that's what I'm hoping too! Actually that's more or less said the same sentence to my mum today :-)

I'd LOVE a water birth :-( there is a woman on the Diabetes UK website who put her foot down and had a home birth! So it is possible, it's just whether or not you are brave enough to stick up to them in the face of quite intense pressure about the safety of the baby. I think I'll crumble.

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 18:42:10

I will be putting my foot down re. hormone drip though.

Well I'm seeing diabetes nurse tomorrow then specialist mw, who is lovely, so might see what her thoughts are on it and report back. I remember them trying to get that bastard drip in, took the mw, registrar and finally consultant to get it in! And they refused me an epidural....

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 19:51:09

Please do report back - I'll be very interested in what they tell you! I had an epu last time but far too late after I'd gone through extraordinary pain. This time I'll be insisting on one from the off. They for some reason didn't give me a full block either - again I'll be asking for one. That is if I absolutely need it but I have a sneaking suspicion I bloody well will!!!

Why wouldn't they let you have one Spotty?

Mylittlepuds Tue 16-Oct-12 19:51:43

Epi not epu!

Well I have a neurological condition and so the anaesthetist didn't want to do it (have since found out it's not a problem). I had diamorphine but it didn't touch the pain, dd was back to back too. I know in some hospitals they routinely give epidurals before they put you on the drip.

Spotty, even if they won't give you an epi it'd be worth asking about a spinal instead - they're meant to be more straightforward than an epi, not sure exactly how though!

I had my viability scan yesterday morning, pleased to report that all is well, in the right place, single heartbeat seen, and I've been booked in to the diabetic antenatal clinic for next week. Can't make the appt time, mind, so need to phone up and change it - I hate automatic appt systems which phone you with the details at 7pm as a) I'm in the middle of putting the kids to bed and b) there's nobody available to speak to you if there's a problem!

The good news also is that because of the problems with my last pregnancy, they want me to have another scan in about 3 weeks time, not sure whether I'll want/need it but it's nice to have the option.

I don't think I'l request one this time tbh Rue as I managed last time... confused

Glad your scan went well, the appointment system sounds rubbish!

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 10:02:31

Rue - congrats, that is lovely news!

I'm also glad someone brought up the birth options. As far as I know a water birth is not an option for me, purely because they only have the birthing pools available in the midwife led centre, and I'll be in the consultant led ward, so it's not that there's any safety issue as far as I know, it just isn't practically possible. I hope at least there's an en suite shower or bath!

On the types of induction, I'm really interested to find out more. A few of the books I've read (in particular the LLL book weirdly titled 'the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding') it did list some particular interventions / hormones you should try to avoid if you can. In particular one particular hormone and also them rupturing your membranes (breaking your waters).

However, on the very initial chats I've had about it, I've also been met with "well, we'll just have to do what's best for baby" line. It feels like if you try to push back on that line it's like you're saying "no, I DON'T want what's best for my baby" which of course is not what you're trying to say at all.

I was also told that if I'm induced for more than 12 hours they would automatically move to section, but I'm not really sure I follow the logic there. I mean, lots of people take a couple of tries to be induced and while I appreciate that they want the baby out early, I really don't think 12 hours one way or the other would make much difference, would it? I'd really rather avoid a section if I can - I think it must make those early weeks with a brand new baby so much

I think I'll just have to continue my research so that at least the next time we discuss it I'm better armed with information. Any other pearls of wisdom from you ladies appreciated too grin

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 10:23:59

FFS, I can't spell or even it turns out complete sentences any more. Sorry, but hope you can decipher my meaning!

Bona I think the hormone they are probably saying to avoid is the Syntocinon. It's a drip and it makes your contractions go from zero to three in ten straight away and then they turn up the strength every hour etc.

ARM (breaking your waters) is best avoided I think but if it's that as a last resort then I would be OK with it. I would much rather just have the pessary and go into labour like that, seems more natural I think. I'm lucky that the labour ward (consultant led one) has got a pool, it's nowhere near as nice as the MLU across the corridor though.

I think it goes:

- Pessary
- Devil drip
- CS

The pessary has to be left in for 12 hours (?) so if they need the baby delivering quickly they won't bother

dieciocho Wed 17-Oct-12 10:50:56

Good news Rue!

Urgh, it's all so worrying/confusing. I've read a lot, but this makes me more concerned: I don't want to be arguing with people at the crucial time or, in fact, ever. I hate confrontation!

My hospital offers mobile epidurals with a weak dose so that you can still move around. That'd be a good option, right?
I'm not sure about risks with epidural; anyone else?

I was hoping to go for diamorphine if needed; good choice or not? Best of a bad bunch I suppose.

I understand that high risk types (us) are "not allowed to use pools." B^gger.

Hmm I will double check on the pool thing today and let you know.

I think lots of people recommend the mobile epidural, I think epidural risks can include getting a bad headache afterwards, increased need for instrumental delivery/CS and possible nerve damage not sure of stats though....

I had diamorphine with dd. It's a bit like being drunk or doing ecstasy I've seen people on it n OBEM and they're completely spaced out, I didn't get this so it's hard to say as it's different for everyone. I would definitely try it before going for an epidural though as you might find it's enough? Also I made them give me another dose less than an hour before dd was born and her APGAR scores were fine, no ill effects from it.

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 10:58:16

Thanks spotty - will look into it more. Would definitely like to at least give the pessary a try and give it time to work if possible.

dieciocho - I think the best thing to avoid arguments at the crucial time is to write a very detailed birth plan in your notes, and make sure DH / DP is as familiar with it as you are so that if you are in too much pain he can fight your corner for you.

At the moment, I would like to avoid an epidural but of course have never done this before and may well be screaming for one! I think that in true risk terms they are very safe, but my concern is more about the fact that all medical interventions / drugs can have an effect on the bonding experience / breastfeeding establishment afterwards. So, am going to try going it alone and see how I go but DEFINITELY not ruling anything out!

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 11:59:42

Just to chip in - I went for the 'staged' approach last time. Gas and air, then pain relief in the form of pethadine and then finally what must have been a mobile epi as it literally 'took the edge off'.

This time I'll be missing out the pain relief stage. It sent me bonkers and I hated it. I was just totally out of it for hours and hours and had what must have been a 'bad trip'. It really affects me still and for days after I didn't feel right at all.

If needed (I'm secretly hoping the baby will 'pop' out after half an hour this time...) I'll be going for a full epi. I had no ill effects at all from that. No back ache. Nada. I would say if there were any bonding issues at all it was the pain relief that did it as I felt so odd.

Also DS's heartbeat slowed right down.

I must add as a disclaimer though that I know a few people who had pethadine and were fine.

Strange as it sounds for me personally an epi birth is more natural in that your actually 'with it'!

Is anyone as frightened as me about their heart scan or has everyone had that now. I've been so naughty and Googled about birth defects...

Out to lunch and forgotten my injection sad

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 13:10:35

Salad for you Spotty :-(

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 13:16:30

puds - I have not had my heart scan yet (16 weeks today) so am also worried, but resolutely not googling!

Also, friends of ours (non diabetic) had a defect picked up on their regular 20 week scan several years ago. They knew their little girl had a heart problem which would need surgery soon after birth. Their daughter is now 4 - yes, they have some stressful times and she did need surgery, but she is now thriving and you would never know she had a problem as a baby.

So, I guess all I'm saying is that problems might be picked up but it might not necessarily be the end of the world. Hmmm, might have to do some googling now....

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 13:17:10

p.s. bad luck about forgetting pen. Go for a salad or something like a steak / chicken with veg but no potatoes / chips / rice / pasta.

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 13:28:29

Bona that's really comforting actually. x

A school-run friend (not diabetic) of mine had a baby a few weeks ago with a heart defect, her baby was transferred up to the local specialist hospital, had an operation at a few days old and is now home and doing really well smile the problem was diagnosed at the anomaly scan too and they had lots of consultations about possible outcomes/treatment options etc before she was born so knew what to expect - she also had lots of extra scans to keep an eye on the baby and how she was developing/growing.

Ok I have info!

Spoke to my lovely mw who's given me some info in expressing colostrum, haven't read it yet still in the car park! She said not to start until 36 weeks.

Regarding the birth she said we can do sweeps from 37 weeks and with it being second baby if might bring on labour naturally if not hopefully pessaries will work and ARM as last resort.

We cannot give birth in the pool but should be able to labour in it in the early stages. Chance we may not need to have a sliding scale at all but she will go into more detail on everything at about 34 weeks. I'm feeling a lot happier now. What else did she say..... Umm oh yeah the reason I was straight on sliding scale and not allowed off the bed etc last time was simply because I was so ill.

dieciocho Wed 17-Oct-12 15:08:35

What's the sliding scale?


BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 15:16:42

spotty thanks so much for the information! Will look forward to more detailed posting on colustrum when you've read it all wink. Sweeps also sound good. Fingers crossed that does the trick!

I've heard of sliding scale, but never experienced it. If at all possible, I will refuse it. It is basically a mixed insulin / glucose drip. I am expressly going to refuse consent for that - while I am conscious I can manage my own insulin requirements and don't want to be tied down (literally) to the bed. I really don't see why it would be necessary and think you are much more likely to have hypos or hypers while on it...

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 15:25:51

I had the sliding scale but no idea why! I was fit and healthy! Perhaps the gas and air/pethadine making me less with it? I was hooked up to it from the beginning and had MASSIVE anxiety about 'handing over' my control as tend not to trust people who aren't diabetic/diabetic specialists! I kept having thoughts about the MW accidentally overdosing me with insulin. It really concerned me at the time but never thought to question it.

Thanks for the info Spotty. Very interesting.

They put you on the sliding scale and then make you test every hour. I don't see why you can't test every hour and if you're struggling then go onto the sliding scale. I think it is in the NICE guidelines though...

As a side point they put you on sliding scales when you have a general anesthetic and when I was about 12/13 I went for an op and they messed it up, luckily it was before I went under but I had quite a bad hypo! Anyway it's something else to think about and discuss with your care team.

Had a quick flick through the leaflet and it tells you how to hand express and to aim to do it about 4 times a day for ten minutes each time and how to store it etc. MW also gave me some syringes to store it in

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 15:55:55

I think I'm just going to put on my birth plan NO SLIDING SCALE. As you say, spotty, if you are testing regularly anyway, why on earth do they need to hook you up in advance? Seems crazy (maybe more appropriate with old mixed insulin regimes, but doesn't make any sense with modern basal / bolus regimes).

Am very intrigued to hear how expressing goes. Look forward to detailed updates!!

Well I will start in six weeks grin

Yeah I think if they need to prep you for a CS then they can just put you on a siding scale then, also they start beeping every time you move which is most annoying!

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 16:06:49

Sounds mental to me.

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 16:11:13

Bona could we not argue CGM would alert people if going too low?

I love this thread - continuous pregnant diabetic goss!

Do any of you sometimes get massively angry when having a hypo. I called my DH all the names under the sun last night (although I think he did deserve it a bit). Basically I had a bad hypo (2.2) and felt scared and really faint. Asked DH to bring my Lucozade and he actually had a mini huff and puff about it as was having his dinner (that by the way he then took through to the next room so I wouldn't eat any in a post hypo munch fest. )I was livid!!

How do you all deal with low hypos as I have a real problem with over correcting as in when I'm low 2s I get insanely hungry, eat about five chocolate biscuits in quick succession along with milk. Was so upset last night as then weng high for hours. I find it so hard to stick to the 15 15 rule when I'm feeling that low.

Oh I get really hungry too! I try to eat grapes, I love grapes.

I know someone who gets violent and hits his wife when he has a hypo shock

BonaDea Wed 17-Oct-12 16:31:27

I very rarely get angry as such, but get extremely vague and sometimes am sitting there thinking "I'm really hypo" then sort of vague out and a few minutes later think the same thing and eventually realise I have to sort it out.

I often over treat when I am low-low (under 3). I am just so desperate to feel better by that stage that there is really no stopping me sometimes!

I've just tested and realised I am 11.2 shock. Am disgusted with myself because had a good lunch and didn't go high, had some fruit on my desk and decided to eat it hoping I'd be ok without injecting and of course I wasn't. Now trying to fix it after the event and feeling guilty. Urgh. Why didn't I just take the shot when I thought about it, before opening my gob and shoving in that plum and pear?!

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 16:50:12

Bona I have done the same thing so many times. It's like sometimes you think food doesn't count hmm I had a piece of pizza from my husband's plate last night and didn't inject!!!!!! I was hypo though so there's a slight excuse.

Ah 11.2 is okay but very annoying. I went to bed with mine rocketing after my over correcting episode and woke up at 14 at about 12 midnight. I could have actually cried. I then proceeded to give myself 3.5 correction units and came crashing down about an hour after. Cue another slight overcorrection. I hate when I get in that cycle. Needless to say that's when I started Googling birth defects. Oh the joys.

Well my level was 12 after forgetting my insulin so not too bad. Having a low carb dinner to help get back on track

My nurse said she's pleased with my levels and wouldn't change what I'm doing grin

Bramblesinafield Wed 17-Oct-12 17:49:16

My boy is having a zero carb dinner to get him sorted. Bless him, came home from school in high 20s, he'd carbed for lunch so something's going on, set is ok, numbers coming down nicely, fingers crossed its just a blip. He must feel really pants though.

Eugh poor him Brambles I'd be glugging litre of water!

Bramblesinafield Wed 17-Oct-12 17:55:01

Yep, we're encouraging him to drink. He's not been this way for ages - hoping he's not brewing an illness just ready for the hols.

Fingers crossed it comes down quickly and doesn't make him feel too poorly

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 18:07:38

Blimming heck. I've not been in the 20s for a while. Hope he's okay soon :-) I think my level was 27 when diagnosed. Felt bloody dreadful. And they sent me home with Metformin and told me not to eat too many grapes...THE IDIOTS!!!

Bramblesinafield Wed 17-Oct-12 18:20:59

Neither's he, poor sausage. Carb free tea coming up. Hopefully it's early enough to get him steady mid evening, so he can have some supper before bed. Probably because I dropped basals slightly as he has been having hypos at end of school. Sigh!

Mylittlepuds Wed 17-Oct-12 19:52:17

Always chasing your tail with diabetes

Bramblesinafield Thu 18-Oct-12 07:24:24

So true. 4.6 this morning. Roll on getting a fresh sensor in.

Hope you ladies are all blooming today smile

BonaDea Thu 18-Oct-12 10:34:35

I am blooming something, but not sure that's a good thing wink

So, a few weird things happening to me:

1) I have this weird high in the middle of the night (probably around 9mmol-ish). Go to bed at one level, rise in the early hours then drop off again and stay steady til I wake. Would never have known without the CGM. I don't think there's anything I can do to stop that because if I up my Levemir I think I'd end up low by the time I wake up and ditto if I increased my dinner time Novo - think I'd be low before going to bed. Wonder what is happening at 2am in the morning? Think that is too early for dawn phenomenon!

2) Mornings are getting ridiculous. Woke up at a respectable 5.2. Don't eat anything, get to work at 6.4, don't eat anything, inject TWELVE UNITS so that I can have breakfast in about an hour's time without going crazy high. Sitting here now at 5.7 and that is after having 12 units of Novo. Crazy or what? Breakfast - low carb, no carb, anything - is just completely off the cards for me atm.

Chasing my tail doesn't cover the half of it!

BonaDea Thu 18-Oct-12 10:36:13

puds - I was also put on metformin, those few weeks were awful and by the time I eventually got put on insulin I had read up so much that I KNEW I was type 1, not type 2 and that metformin would not be helping me! You would think that a GP would know that looking at skeletal 28 year old who'd reported losing 2 stone in 4 weeks was not a type 2!

Bet they told you not to eat grapes but to eat plenty of complex carbs!!

Mylittlepuds Thu 18-Oct-12 11:27:20

Ha ha Bona! Yes they did! One night I ate four bowls of porridge as was still clearly in starvation mode but thought it was okay as complex carbs were 'good'. I ended up in the mid 20s of course. Makes me shudder at what could have happened really. So irresponsible.

Ooh I don't know what's happening with you in the night but I do get random rises sometimes after I've hit target. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It's very frustrating but I've put it down to what I've eaten. It tends to happen less if I've had an extra healthy meal. Is it happening every night?

Bona honestly breakfast is a killer for me but I simply must eat it as otherwise I don't feel right. I can't give it up regardless of whether my levels end up high or not. My requirements are changing daily at the moment - sometimes I need shed loads, sometimes I don't. It's strange and of course risky! This could be absolutely stating the complete obvious but have you tried having the same thing every single morning? When I get frustrated with it all doing this helps me to see exactly what I need for that particular breakfast (say two slices of toast). Every time I miss target I out my ratio up by 0.2 (0.5 if it's more out). I know granny and suck eggs and all that :-)

BonaDea Thu 18-Oct-12 11:49:54

puds - yes, not sure what it is with porridge but I tell you if one medical professional has told me to eat plenty, I swear that a million have! Must have killed more than one diabetic over the years, I'm sure.

Feel like I have tried everything on the breakfast front. I've just given up and will just stick to starting snacking around 11am, and then just keeping eating into the afternoon smile

dieciocho Thu 18-Oct-12 14:28:05

Wow Bona, I don't know how your tummy gets you to work without any breakfast inside it! Aside from the sugar levels, I'd be vomiting with hunger pangs!

I, apparently, drive my DP mad when I'm hypo because I still have things I do/don't fancy - I might refuse something that I'd normally accept to correct a hypo because I just don't fancy it that time!
"No, chocolate!!" - must be like dealing with a toddler...oh, so I'm helping him to prepare. Well done me : )

dieciocho Thu 18-Oct-12 14:32:01

BTW, who's due first? (EDD, not special-diabetic-due-date)
Spotty you must be soon, no?

I'm 31-01-13

BonaDea Thu 18-Oct-12 15:36:32

Sugar levels unaffected by not having brekkie - my daytime levemir seems to be behaving itself at the moment, so without pesky food I stay steady pretty much all day.... I'm not a huge breakfast person (other than weekend fry ups / brunch) so don't miss it too much. Would NOT be able to miss dinner (or lunch)

Definitely not me. EDD 03 - 04 - 14

27-12-12 EDD I'm thinking of slipping consultant a fiver to arrange induction on 12-12-12 grin

BonaDea Thu 18-Oct-12 15:51:36

spotty that would be very cool. think you must be our first one! eeeek!

my friend had a planned c-section 2 years ago on 8-9-10

dieciocho Thu 18-Oct-12 17:53:05

Ouch, Bona that's a looong pregnancy ; )

dieciocho Thu 18-Oct-12 17:58:37

I've had a nervous afternoon - felt no kicks between lunch and 16:30

I lay down and massaged my bump and now I've had about 6 kicks in close succession. That takes my grand total for today above 10, so should I relax now?
Or should I keep counting and call the hospital if the kicks don't continue over the next couple of hours?

Second-timers? Third-timers? What would you be doing?

Hmm I'm not a big worrier to be honest so would be happy with that. Have you started to notice a pattern of kicks yet? Usually not obvious until 28 weeks. Other things you can try are really cold drinks (they recommend sugary ones but no good for us!) or say a cold diet coke. Also you could lay down with your hand resting on your tummy as baby will normally give that a good boot! Remember they sleep lots smile

dieciocho Thu 18-Oct-12 18:36:51

Ok Spotty, thanks.
No, no real pattern yet - I'm 25 weeks tomorrow, just not accustomed to having huge 4-hour gaps between kicks!
But I'll try a cold Diet Coke - it's been ages since I last had some...yum.

Mylittlepuds Thu 18-Oct-12 19:53:22

As soon as I felt a kick I'd relax - but I was the same during first pregnancy. I remember once laying down flat in public loos in a panic! I can't wait till this one starts :-)

You know when you stroke a dog's tummy and their leg goes all funny, almost vibrates? This baby did that last night, and dp felt it too! So funny, and a bit weird!

Any more movement dieciocho? I think they say you don't need to 'count kicks' until 28 weeks..... dp putting his face on my stomach an talking usually works too

BonaDea Fri 19-Oct-12 10:31:01

Hope everything is ok dieciocho. I'm desperate for kicks to start, but I guess it is just one more thing to worry about when baby is having a nap!!

dieciocho Fri 19-Oct-12 16:48:54

I started feeling kicks at 19 weeks and at my last ante-natal appointment (24 wks) the MW suggested that I count them every day.

After the Diet Coke last night, I sat down on the sofa and read - all nice and relaxed - and the kicks started again.
Today's been relatively normal too, thankfully.

Ah that's good to hear! I'm a bit hmm that your mw suggested that as other people on my antenatal thread have been told not to do it at all just learn what's normal for you. Lots of different opinions anyway and I'm sure everyone agrees if you're worried to get checked out grin

My bump has popped again, going swimming on Sunday for the first time in ages, should I eat something first? What should I eat? Also bearing in mind it's booking when you get out I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be aware of a hypo thinking it could be best to have something quite sugary before hand? Hmmm......

dieciocho Fri 19-Oct-12 18:34:29

When I used to swim as a child and teenager, my mum always packed ginger biscuits in my swimming bag to eat before and after as they don't go soggy!

Mmmm ginger nuts - yum!


Mylittlepuds Sat 20-Oct-12 09:51:10

Spotty is that an hour and a half after? It's just I'd start panicking if I was at that as would be worried about going into hypo. Would you generally be okay aft that kind of reading or will you need a snack?

It was about an hour and a half after. I did have a digestive but it will probably make it go high I wouldn't worry about a hypo after that reading really. Maybe if I was going out but I'm just laying on the sofa grin

Mylittlepuds Sat 20-Oct-12 11:13:57

It's a bloody balancing act I tell you! I've spent the morning doing housework and I can always guarantee a good hypo after that which is why I tend to avoid it at all costs.

BonaDea Sat 20-Oct-12 12:58:45

Morning ladies! Have just been incredibly organised and booked my Christmas food delivery slot, turkey and all the trimmings. Making me drool at the thought. Off to a 1st birthday party this afternoon - god help me. Wonder what sugary delights there will be to eat...?

Depends if it's their PFB or not! Might be all carrot stick, hummus and rice cakes wink

dieciocho Sat 20-Oct-12 15:41:37

Oh my god, we've just bought a pushchair.
We'd been hunting for a slim-line, light, second-hand one that wasn't stained with baby sick, but Mothercare has a system where you can choose your pushchair, pay a 10% deposit and then just pay the rest off in installments up until your due date. So if we pay £15 a week for the rest of the pregnancy, we'll be done by my EDD. Also, if Mothercare drops the price, you can adjust your payments so that you only end up pay the lower price. - it's your responsibility to watch for any reductions though.
We couldn't have afforded to buy a new one outright, no way! All the second-hand ones we'd seen were too crusty/too wide/too heavy-I'm only 164cms.

Sorry, I know that's not a diabetes-related post, but...

I had a 1.8 this morning over at my friend's house - her 2-year-old son offered me one of his Rich Tea biscuits - how cute, but not quite powerful enough!
He then watched enviously as I shoved sweets into my mouth.

Ooo 1.8! Did you feel it?

That's great about the pushchair mine is being delivered Monday I'm super excited grin we borrowed one for dd so I got new this time

dieciocho Sat 20-Oct-12 17:52:07

Yeah, I did Spotty, but didn't thick I was quite that low.
I couldn't concentrate on what we were talking about - it wasn't in my 1st language - I just couldn't think about how to make sensible sentences.

dieciocho Sat 20-Oct-12 17:52:46

Sorry, not "thick", but "think"!

Mylittlepuds Sat 20-Oct-12 18:30:58

Right well 1.8 beats all mine. A new low record! Can anyone beat it? Mine's 1.9.

Hmmm I'm trying to think now..... when I was younger I used to fit when my sugar level went low so I'm guessing that was pretty low! Don't think I've consciously been below 1.8 though

dieciocho Sat 20-Oct-12 21:12:39

To be honest, I get daytime readings of below 2 once every few weeks or so.
I'm always still upright and able to do a test, then feed myself.

Is this just me? I suppose that I had imagined that all type 1s had similar lows from time to time.

Bramblesinafield Sat 20-Oct-12 21:20:41

It's heartening in a odd way to hear you can be an adult and still ok ish at 1. Something. I was told it was instant faint! Ds hit 1.2 this week ... Ouch! He's currently 30. I haven't seen such extremes in ages, sigh.

Mylittlepuds Sat 20-Oct-12 21:42:48

Diec I get a 2.2 - 2.4 every week or so and I've had 1.9 lots of times, just not lower. I've never collapsed/fainted. In a way though it would probably do me good in an odd way as I'm petrified of it happening - its a real anxiety, particularly as I have a toddler. I suppose it would show me that the 'worst' isn't so bad really.

So...give me the gory details. What is the worst case scenario? Can you come around with no intervention or does someone really need to be about to give you Glucagon. Has anyone had to have a Glucagon injection? Do I need to be so petrified all the time or is it a disproportionate worry? When they talk about death is that more if you're behind a wheel? Is it rare?

Since growing out of fitting I've never got so bad I need help

Mylittlepuds Sat 20-Oct-12 21:51:07

Does fitting happen when you're really low Spotty? Is it that children are less able to spot the sometimes subtle signs of hypo? Or ignore them?

My worst was below 1mmol, when in hosp after having dd - nobody warned me what BFing did to sugars, and I just couldn't get hold of enough carbs to keep going... Soup and a sarnie at 5pm then nothing available until 7am breakfast.

I was unconscious & fitting when they eventually found me - dd had apparently been crying for "about an hour" angry

It was a notifiable incident for the hospital and as a direct result, t1s are no longer allowed private rooms, and have to be checked on every 2(? I think!) hours through the night.

And to come round by yourself from a fit is possible so long as your liver hasn't previously dumped it into you - it needs about 24-48 hrs to recharge its stores each time. If your liver has done that, a glucagon injection won't work as all it does is kick start your liver.

I only used to fit if I had a hypo at night time, never in the day. I had my last one when I was 14.

Rue that must have been awful sad

dieciocho Sun 21-Oct-12 07:48:12

Oh Rue, how horrific.

I've been unconscious (usually early morning), but not fitted - that I'm aware of.
I think I've had an ambulance called 3 times, by parents/housemates/partner. In over 20 years, I'm not too worried by that statistic.

Yes, your liver is very clever; it just needs at least a whole day to replenish its stores.
TBH I doubt any of us would allow ourselves to verge anywhere near a really low-low reading twice in a row, would we?!
It just feels so unpleasant that I know I'd be on tenterhooks the day after a bad hypo making sure I was running that little bit high.

Mylittlepuds Sun 21-Oct-12 09:12:28

Rue that's awful! I didn't know about the liver using up its stores until recently. Again I'm annoyed no professional told me - there should be a lust of things you're told on diagnosis.

If you fit then and the glucagon doesn't work what do they do? I'm sorry I'm being morbid I would just like to be armed with the info.

Mylittlepuds Sun 21-Oct-12 09:13:18

List not lust! Nothing about being diabetic is lust-worthy!

Bramblesinafield Sun 21-Oct-12 09:15:37

That's my understanding,puds. We always run Ds a bit higher after a nasty hypo.

Hope you ladies are all well and looking forwards to a chilled out Sunday.

Mylittlepuds Sun 21-Oct-12 10:32:38

Weird discovery this morning...if I eat breakfast before 8 I don't seem to need as much insulin. Anyone else found this? About 1 unit to 10g as opposed to 2.5 units to 10g.

newbie6 Sun 21-Oct-12 14:22:40

Lowest I've been is about 1.4 and scarily seem pretty sane! Cause i now check my sugars every few hours, haven't had any nasty lows. Today seems to be a higher day, was 5.6 during night, good i thought but 10 waking up? Took insulin with a cup of tea and was 6.7 then an hour later was 7.4! Took more insulin and had something to eat and they're now sitting at around 6. Still not sleeping which is making me feel horrendous sad hope others are doing better than me! X

Puds I'm like that - my bolus ratio changes about 4 times a day, fortunately on a pump I can just programme in the different ratios & times they apply to and leave it to work out how much insulin I need. It varies from 1u to 8g up to 1u to 16g carbs depending on the time of day.

My basal rate jumps around a fair bit too, and varies from 0.75u/hr up to 1.8u/hr. and it gets a whole lot more interesting the more pg I get! And when not pg I have 2 different programmes set up, one for days 1-14 of my cycle, the other for days 15-28 (ish).

Forgot to add - if you fit and glucagon doesn't work then it's admission & sliding scale, pretty much.

Mylittlepuds Mon 22-Oct-12 08:29:04

Well I think I've cracked breakfast (for now...). Eat it earlier! Bona have you tried an early breakfast? Anything after 8 and I'm buggered but this morning I had two pieces of toast, four and a half units and in target in an hour! It's a miracle!

I normally eat breakfast between six and seven and I still need more than 12 units for two slices of toast!

Mylittlepuds Mon 22-Oct-12 09:23:23

Oh bloody hell. Perhaps my sensitivity has just increased again then!

BonaDea Mon 22-Oct-12 13:17:37

puds - thanks for thinking of me, but I've tried it ALL smile! And for the record a cup of tea will DEFINITELY send me 1 or 2 mmol up. Milk is definitely not my friend!

I think 1.9 is probably also my lowest low and I can count on one hand the number of times I've been below about 2.5. I've been pretty lucky and still have very good hypo awareness - reckon about 3.6 when I start to feel it, by 3.2 feel awful. But then I have only had diabetes for 5 years and I think the longer you have it, the more hypos you've had, the more accustomed your body becomes to the feeling...

Also lucky enough never to have had a hypo I couldn't treat myself. I figure it's one of those things, though, which is bound to happen eventually.

Rue - love how the hospital's response to that horrific f-up on their part was to stop diabetics enjoying a private room. How about... um... warning new mothers about needing lots of carbs when BF'ing and perhaps making some extra food or sugary drinks available?!

At clinic tomorrow and looking forward to hearing the baby's heartbeat again. Find myself looking forward to the MW bit and dreading the DSN / nutritionist. I find them pretty patronising.

Bramblesinafield Mon 22-Oct-12 13:48:15

Morning (afternoon!) ladies! Zombie today following another delightful night. We've had a week of ridiculous highs, despite monitoring, insulin change, canula change. Sigh. Overcompensated last night for a 20 and spent 1 1/2 hours getting him up from a 2 something in the small hours.

Hope you don't mind me looking in on the chat, it helps me to understand how things work and think of other things we could try. He's usually between 4 -7 with a post meal spike of 12 if he doesn't carb early enough. These numbers are strange - I'm putting it down to a combo of cold/tiredness/puberty. Hope we get out of the other side of it sharpish!

Rue what a nightmare with the hospital. Grrrrrrr. And yes re warning re bf-ing. I'm not looking forwards to the inevitable chat I have to have with ds now he's going through puberty about having a carb snack available/prior to, erm, well, boy stuff!!

how lovely re hearing baby heartbeat. Gorgeous.

Brambles sorry your ds is having a rough time in afraid I don't know much about how it effects boys in puberty!

So who does everyone see in pregnancy? From finding out I've seen DNS (who I love) fortnightly, sometimes that would have just been a phone call if all was going well. I saw DNS with consultant at 6, 16, 24, 28 weeks. My diabetes consultant sometimes joins in these appointments which will continue at 32, 34, 36 weeks. I have only met my community mw once and she didn't even want to see me hmm but I can see my specialist mw at any if the above appointments and often pop to see her on the times I don't have a scan so I can hear the heartbeat smile

I've had scans at 6,8,12,20,24,28 weeks and will have them at 32,24,36 weeks.

Just wondering if it duffers much for each area I hope that isn't too garbled confused

dieciocho Mon 22-Oct-12 15:40:27

Yes, it differs! I'm in west London.
I'm having fortnightly appointments too, but see either a diabetes specialist OR an obstetrics specialist at these. I don't have MW appointments, but can ask to see one if I have any questions that the doctors haven't answered.
The MWs at my ante-natal clinic are not diabetes specialists, but rather "complicated pregnancy" specialists (heart problems, kidney failure, all 3 types of diabetes etc).
I have had a 12-week and 20-week scan and will have a 28-week, 32-week and 36-week scan.
I've been offered appointments with the dietician, but in my experience, they're always patronising, so I've declined.

Oh yes I got offered an appointment with the dietician but declined!

BonaDea Mon 22-Oct-12 16:03:26

I have fortnightly appointments and at each one see MW, consultant obstetrician, DSN and diabetic nutritionist. Each appt takes 1-2 hours as I wait for them all to see me. I like seeing he MW - makes me feel more normal and helps get comfortable with the normal pregnancy stuff, not just being diabetic!

Had scans at 6 & 12 weeks, then will have 20 weeks x 2 (one 'normal', one cardiac), then 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36 weeks scans. I am I can't complain they're not keeping an eye on me.

Brambles - you are welcome any time. These extreme swings in your son sound awful and he must feel like sh!t too. Would imagine hormone surges are behind a lot of it.... or could he be eating stuff when he's at school which he shouldn't be / isn't shooting for?

Bramblesinafield Mon 22-Oct-12 16:18:09

These swings ctainly aren't normal. I'm on 'lockdown' with him today to get his chilling out day basals sorted. Bless him! I do wonder if what he's eating might be being miscounted at times, but he's on a pump so is very good at keeping up with the insulin.

I think we sometimes know more than the dieticians we aree sent to see!

Glad they're keeping a close eye. How lovely to have a view in to baby with the additional scans.

Well I'm officially on the merry-go-round from tomorrow - 7 1/2 weeks and off to the joint antenatal clinic, where I'll be weighed, measured, BP done, wee dipsticked. Then wait to see DSN and midwife (together), then wait to see 2 consultants (together) along with their registrars, students etc etc. Let the fun times roll...

They'll have me on fortnightly appts from now till delivery given half a chance, am hoping I can talk them into less often, at least to start with!

BonaDea Mon 22-Oct-12 16:34:51

Brambles - whenever I go through an unpredictable patch (which happens from time to time) I tend to go low carb for a week or two just to let myself balance out and regroup. Then introduce carbs again slowly and get back to grips with my bolus ratios.

Low carbing for me is quite and easy and mindless way to get good control back if things are going awry. Not a long term solution for me personally, but might be worth a try if things are really getting scary. It can be pretty healthy and tasty too!

Bramblesinafield Mon 22-Oct-12 16:53:40

That's a helpful strategy - we do use it now and again, but good to link it particularly to difficult times. I must admit, I felt myself tense up when he sked for white toast - erm, no love! Not today! Things certainly are better all round on a low carb diet, much fewer swings.

Good luck on the merry go round rue!

Mylittlepuds Mon 22-Oct-12 19:29:55

It's weird but this time around I've found they're far less interested in me - which is a good thing! I can remember the first time lots of visits to diabetes nurse, her looking at my carefully written out BG diary, her telling me to increase insulin...I suppose this time it's a bit like teaching granny how to suck eggs. This time for me it's all just scans. And I'm hoping to get to chat to my obstetrician to rant and rave about not having ask her politely about the dreaded induction hormone and sliding scales.

Bramblesinafield Mon 22-Oct-12 19:44:22

Oh the joys of the induction hormone and the stormy labour! Still, I suppose a half hour labour was better than a 14 hour one ?!?!

BonaDea Mon 22-Oct-12 19:46:04

Maybe they back off once they realise that you've done it once successfully. I take EVERYTHING the nurse says with a pinch of salt to be honest. They just don't get the reality of the thing.

I only write up my diary the day before I go in and not sure why I don't just tell them the truth which is that I feel my way through what I'm doing, I test a lot and I adjust as I need to. Do I follow all the strict rules? NO. Am I pretty happy with the way it's going? Yes. So leave me alone! (I feel like saying but instead just pander to them in the hope they'll leave me be).

Oh you all need my nurse she is so nice! I normally write my readings up in the waiting room!

You've just reminded me, I need to find fill in a diary before my appointment tomorrow morning, oops! grin

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 07:26:55

Bl00dy hell, I'm so sleepy this morning that I've just done my pre-breakfast Novoraid injection twice!
Now I'll have to force-feed myself a breakfast the size of the kitchen table.
So much for trying to follow Bona's healthy lead with the low carbs : (

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 07:43:54

Oh Diec! Make sure you are carrying about plenty of fast acting. I really worry about doing that. I think I have thought I have before but not sure I actually have. Are you a work or home today?

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 07:44:58

I'm at home this morning, so I should be ok - I'll just keep testing and testing!

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 07:48:25

This might sound extremist but are you sure you don't need to ring your DSN/pop by A&E? When I have more than say 12 units it seems to have more than a 'double' effect. Sorry if I've worried you! You obviously know your own reaction to insulin better than I do!

I would use it as a good excuse to have cake for breakfast grin

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 07:52:54

I'll just keep watching myself. I have had a dose this big before, say after a large celebratory meal, for example.
I'm glad I'm not out and about this morning.

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 07:54:40

Spotty, do you mean you don't keep a cake-free household??!! ; )
Nothing that exciting round here unfortunately.
TBH after 20-odd years of diabetes, my taste-buds lean more towards the savoury end of the scale - give me crisps any day!

Unfortunately my dp is a chocolate/biscuit addict and can't even go a day without it! I always moan at him for not being supportive wink I do agree with you though re preferring savoury good now!

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 08:00:18

Oh that's fine then :-) enjoy a good pig out!

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 08:17:49

Relax, just tested, an hour after my double dose - I'm 7.4

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 08:32:40

Phew! I really was worried!

I don't know if you girls can remember but at about 10 weeks my sensitivity to insulin went bonkers. From taking x3 at brekkie to 1 unit to 10g again. Well my requirements did start creeping up again but now at 13 and a half weeks it seems to have crashed again.

Do I need to worry about this or take it in my stride? I can't remember this happening with DS but then again my memory is pants. The words of my diabetes nurse keeps ringing in my head saying sudden declines in requirements can mean 'the pregnancy is not ongoing'.

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 08:44:50

Yes, I remember your nurse's seeming lack of sensitivity.
When's your next appointment? Have you seen a pattern over at least 2 days?
Can you pop in to see someone from your specialist team or call them?

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 08:55:08

Yes Diec good idea - will give them a ring :-) Oh no she's honestly fantastic, I think she was just trying to forewarn me as was having stomach cramps too at the time. Would hate to give the wrong impression of my nurse as she's amazing!

BonaDea Tue 23-Oct-12 09:01:15

I think there are a lot of ups and downs as the baby goes through various growth spurts and also you have all those hormones surging around your body. I think at 13 weeks your chances of miscarriage are very low indeed and also with no other symptoms I wouldn't worry too much.

Give them a ring to put your mind at rest.

Urgh, need to go and write up my diary and do urine sample in advance of appt. Oh the joys (but secretly excited to hear the heartbeat again!). grin

Diec - hope you are ok after your double dose. I would view it as a great opportunity to eat loads of white buttered toast (just personally speaking, of course!).

BonaDea Tue 23-Oct-12 09:13:47

p.s. have a cold this morning. Is there ANYTHING which we can take other than paracetemol? Could really do with something for a stuff nose / sore throat...

Nothing you can take apart from sugar free strepsils (I think, I took them anyway!) and steam/olbas oil. 5 before and after breakfast today. Had a sausage sandwich blush yum!

dieciocho Tue 23-Oct-12 11:15:48

Bona, I was a bit coldy a few weeks ago and used sugar-free Fisherman's Friends for my throat. I have to admit that I didn't check them with my MW, but nothing on the packet worried me.

You could always use old-fashioned lemon and honey for your throat and then test like mad afterwards! You only take a teaspoonful every hour or so/when your throat hurts, so maybe you'd be able to balance it quite well.

BonaDea Tue 23-Oct-12 12:06:52

spotty - sounds delicious. About to have my 'breakfast' which is a granary roll with mustard mayo, roast ham, double gloucester and avocado. YUM! Will have 'lunch' about 2-ish grin

diec - hmm, I also kind of figured cough sweets probably ok as long as sugar free. Maybe I'll pop to Boots and ask the pharmacist.

Just back from hospital. All well, baby's heartbeat thumping away as it should, no sugar in urine, no ketones, 'beautiful' blood pressure (am thrilled with that - am often on the higher side of normal). DSN and dietician seemed pleased with my readings, so that's good.

Do you find they tend to get MUCH more worried about hypos than highs? I mean I know that a hypo is what is more likely to get me in the back of an ambulance statistically speaking but when pg you'd think the odd highs that I have recorded would worry them too - but no, apparently not...

They do worry about hypos I think because you're less likely to be aware of it

BonaDea Tue 23-Oct-12 12:19:46

I just think they have that upside down - or at least give disproportionate weight to it. Yes, hypos can be harmful, but highs are what will give us neuropathy, retinopathy and damage our babies... You'd think in the long run they are more damaging to more people and therefore should be given more (or at least equal) weight in terms of discussions!

Mylittlepuds Tue 23-Oct-12 16:19:38

My team used to underplay hypos as they knew that during tight control and pregnancy it is par for the course. When I've not been able to see my usual team though they are usually like 'What?! You get hypos?! We need to sort this out.' I'm like hmm I have several a day...

Last night I had a Crunchie. Tested before and it was 6 tested after and it was 6.8 <proud> grin

BonaDea Wed 24-Oct-12 14:50:07

Just had a burger and chips pub lunch for a mate from work's leaving do. Scared to test.... blush

My DNS always says as long as you know what made it high it's OK grin it's if you don't know why that it's a problem, and I'm sure the burger and yummy chunky chips were worth it!

dieciocho Wed 24-Oct-12 15:22:46

Had another ante-natal appointment this morning and was forced to see a dietician.
My breakfast ratio is roughly 4u - 10g and then roughly 1u - 10g for the rest of the day.
She proudly told me about another formula that is used to work out insulin - carb. ratios, then worked "mine" out and told me I shouldn't be giving myself such a high dose at breakfast! What?
If I did lower doses for a normal-sized breakfast, my 1-hour-after-breakfast reading would be off the scale; I showed her my diary.
Why, oh why do these people insist that they know better than us?

On the plus side, my bp is 120/70 and bump's heart rate is 149

My ratio's similar to yours dieciocho so glad I don't have to see a dietician!

newbie6 Wed 24-Oct-12 17:24:10

Hi all,

Anyone have any ideas for me? I am testing during the night (around 2-4am) and am getting readings of between 4.5 and 6. When I wake up though (around 8.30/9am) the results are around 9.1 to 10.0. I take Lantus at 10pm, 22 units and wondered what I should do? Should I be upping my tea time Novorapid? I am normally around 6 before bed though so don't really want to be much lower than that or should I be upping my Lantus?

thanks in advance


newbie I don't know in afraid but others here are more knowledgeable!

Before dinner I was 10 sad always put me in a bad mood angry

It sounds like dawn phenomenon tbh, caused by hormones racing around you just before you wake up.

Not sure what the answer is, maybe a v small correction, depending on how quickly it takes to act and how long it lasts?

Mylittlepuds Thu 25-Oct-12 04:46:37

I'm say awake at this time as have bloody taken my long acting twice :-( scared and annoyed

dieciocho Thu 25-Oct-12 07:32:13

Newbie, I'd say it's Dawn Phenomenon, so if it were me, I'd split my Lantus (I had the same situation in 1st trimester, now split and seem much better.
I tested at 3am this morning, was 4.6, but then 5.9 when I got up at 7am : ) )
Alternatively, give yourself 1 or 2u of fast-acting in the middle of the night.

dieciocho Thu 25-Oct-12 07:33:03

Oh Puds, how crappy. Just test, test, test and DON'T have a nap!!!

Rubbish puds sort of thing I'd do!

I got my next diabetic retinopathy screening appointment through they could only do 9:30am which has annoyed me as it gives me a headache for the rest of the day and I can't even sleep because I have dd to look after!

Mylittlepuds Thu 25-Oct-12 09:03:47

DH let me sleep in. Had half a bottle of Lucozade at 4.30: no effect. Two slices of toast + other half of bottle finally got me up, but of course too far. However after 3 hours was 11 - not too, too bad considering. I bloody hate this sometimes. X

BonaDea Thu 25-Oct-12 09:40:15

newbie - I agree the problem is dawn phenomenon. Don't increase your Novorapid for dinner - that dose of insulin lasts for 4 hours maximum and is NOT going to make any difference to what is happening 12 hours + in the future. It sounds like you have your dinner Novorapid correct and that you are going to bed at a good level, as well as staying at a good level through the night.

The fact that you are still at a good level through the night to me suggests your Lantus is also correct. If you were to split it, I don't think that would necessarily solve that problem. If you split it you would be taking less at night before going to bed, which to me would suggest that the overnight readings would start to creep up... Taking lantus when you wake up is not going to address your high readings in the morning...

To be honest - and unfortunately - I think you probably have to set your alarm earlier. If you wake at 6 or 7, and take one or maybe two units of Novorapid, then go back to sleep until your normal getting up time I think you'll find that you stop that rise of 3 or 4mmol you are seeing. Dawn phenomenon is a bummer and there is very little that you can do to stop it if otherwise your levels are good during the night. HTH.

puds what a bummer. At least it was only the long acting you took twice. A couple of times (and thank god I've noticed) I've taken 20 units of Novo before bed instead of 20 units of Levemir. Now that is scary!!

Mylittlepuds Thu 25-Oct-12 10:13:03

Bona - that is my actual living nightmare!!!!!!! What did you do?!

Has anyone tried milk for hypos? How do you find it works? Is there really healthy but that honestly does the truck like the dreaded Lucozade?

dieciocho Thu 25-Oct-12 11:50:52

I've never used Lucozade; the colour really puts me off!
I have used a glass of milk with a spoonful of sugar mixed in a few times and that seems to work...

BonaDea Thu 25-Oct-12 12:19:04

puds - I drank an entire carton of fruit smoothie - the packet conveniently told me that 1 litre contained 20g carbs which was what I needed!

I find milk works fine for me, orange juice is another great one which I often use. Lucozade works very quickly but it is sooo carby that I invariably go high afterwards because I glug it down.

Something like a slice of toast works fine for me, too, and is probably better for you than lucozade!

I don't like Lucozade (though have used it a few times, needs must and all that!). I normally use the individual glucogel things, or 4x jelly babies or 4x wine gums - all of those are 15g carbs and work pretty well. I try and have a drink with them, just water or fruit juice, as it seems to make the carbs work quicker.

What does everyone else use to treat hypos? Am wondering if there are other options...

Mars bars blush

No, I find the smallest cartons of pure apple juice the best. Only 2/3 needed though really. Or dextrose tablets.

BonaDea Thu 25-Oct-12 13:10:44

When out and about I use lucozade orange tablets - they are nice and 4-5 tablets does the trick.

Otherwise, whatever I have to hand. At the moment I'm just being quite strict on amounts so that I don't go overboard as I don't want to end up high afterwards. So, one twix finger instead of both or whatever blush

rue - if you are having fruit juice as well, do you count that into your 15g? Fruit juice has a lot of (albeit natural) sugar so if I had that on top of my 15g I would end up high afterwards!

Depends on the hypo, severe ones (below 3) need about 25g carbs to come out of so I tend to have the fruit juice then, as the extra.

I don't really like dextrose, glucotabs have a raspberry flavour I think which isn't too bad, either that or cherry, can't remember! They generally taste too powdery and I find them really hard to get down me, esp when I'm low and rather bolshy at the time grin

dieciocho Thu 25-Oct-12 17:51:41

Yeah, me neither; any of those tablet-type things are vile. I haven't' used them since I was first diagnosed and my parents were told they were the only thing.

I use jelly sweets, honey, tea/milk with sugar in. Nothing too unnatural-looking/tasting!
I use chocolate from time to time (it's obviously my preferred option), but the fat slows down the absorption of the sugar.

Mmmm golden syrup is a yummy one!

I used to keep squirty tubes of condensed milk in the cupboard, except I'd just eat them blush so had to stop!

I don't use chocolate as I find it takes ages to work and I get worse before I get better.

Mylittlepuds Fri 26-Oct-12 17:47:24

Currently sat in mat ward with ++2 keytones after 2 days of frustrating highness. Bloody fed up!!! What should I expect?

Oh Rue I don't know confused keep us updated though. Umm sliding scale maybe? How high have you been?

sorry Puds bloody baby brain!

Mylittlepuds Fri 26-Oct-12 17:59:00

Well after my bloody double dose of long acting the other night I treated it and haven't been right since. Yesterday I went to 13 for a few hours after lunch and after correcting twice it started to drift down. Went to bed with it 7ish and then over night it staggered around 10. Today I've had no carbs and it's hovered around 7/8 despite a few correction doses. I've been crazy with panic that I've somehow damaged the baby but I know at 14 weeks it's more to do with weight gain. Have been Googling again...wish I could just relax and enjoy. V jealous of non diabetic pregnant women at mo!!

Well obviously they're not great but they're not too bad, I'm sure they'll be able to sort it out for you smile

Mylittlepuds Fri 26-Oct-12 18:07:53

Thanks Spotty. It's just getting that bit of reassurance that helps :-)

Mylittlepuds Fri 26-Oct-12 18:11:39

Random question but diabetes nurse thinks I might be getting a virus/infection hence sudden highs. I feel totally fine but have a boil on my neck (yuck!!) and i'm wondering if it is that? My body trying to fight it off?

Also I was never ill whilst pregnant last time - has anyone been ill during pregnancy, sugars obviously gone up, and all been okay?

Well I'll be interested to know what they suggest, I can't see that a couple of days of 7-10 readings will be harmful to baby

Dp is currently having a right strop because he bought me normal rennies instead of sugar free and I have horrendous heartburn hmm

Never been ill in pregnancy that does sound likely though - both possible illness and boil! Nice to know there's a likely reason for it!

dieciocho Fri 26-Oct-12 18:42:12

Puds, they're not awful readings; try to relax.

I know that pre-pregnancy my readings were higher if I was starting to get 'flu. I understand that the infection does cause your blood sugars to rise.

Mylittlepuds Sat 27-Oct-12 10:59:19

I'm home smile

Didn't have to stay over and got to see baby kicking about which was nice.

Levels - so far - today have been great. I think it must have been that I wasn't very well as have been aching today.

Anyway the positive is that I'm not going to be as hard on myself. The midwife said that she often sees women with BGs in their 30s and 40s and the baby has been fine. I think us lot are actually a very conscientious bunch when it comes to pregnant diabetics!

So I'm going to try and relax now and enjoy as this might be our last baby.

Hope you're all well today! Thanks so much for your messages. X

I would be on the floor unable to move if mine was 30/40 shock

I'm glad to hear everything is OK though and you're home smile

I'm doing some Christmas shopping today, online, as it was pay day yesterday and I want it all out of the way before I hit 36 weeks which gives me four and a half weeks!!

Mylittlepuds Sat 27-Oct-12 11:51:30

I know! I was 27mmol once and felt very strange!

Mylittlepuds Sat 27-Oct-12 11:51:59

I haven't even thought about Christmas shopping...good point.

I've done lots! Feeling very organised, the Christmas Bargains thread is very inspiring!

Mylittlepuds Sat 27-Oct-12 17:05:53

Haagen Daas (sp?) Strawberry Cheesecake ice cream and Classic Magnum in quick succession. Oops!!!!!! Feeling very, very naughty...

Please fess up to your favourite treats!

Umm my worst is Maltesers I shove them in so fast and chomp them blush they have to be out the fridge!

Mylittlepuds Sat 27-Oct-12 18:17:51

Ooh Maletesers!

What do you all do if you're having a buffet type meal? Or you want seconds? Or your eyes are bigger than your stomach and you can't finish your food?!

Mylittlepuds Mon 29-Oct-12 09:28:10

Inject, cross my fingers, hope for the best, invariably feel very annoyed with myself when i go high and spend hours afterwards waiting for the correction to work!

I was at a family celebration the other night and was so jealous of those just tucking in indiscriminately whilst I stuck to the cocktail sausages and cheese (and still, weirdly, went high)! I tell you what, when this baby is born I'm bloody throwing caution to the wind! In fact I can remember when DS was born it was almost like not having diabetes as I was not hung up about my levels. As I bf though they reminded great for 10 months with minimal effort!

BonaDea Mon 29-Oct-12 11:54:01

puds glad to hear you're feeling better.... There are even special sick day rules to follow if you are ill because your insulin requirements go up when your body is fighting infection (google "DAFNE sick day rules").

at a buffet I do the same as you, tend to stick to the protein based stuff and salads if I can. If not, I go to the loo and inject at a guesstimate, knowing that I can always top up again later. It is awkward though - I can inject at a restaurant table without anyone noticing, but not so at a stand-up buffet...

Mylittlepuds Mon 29-Oct-12 13:04:04

Thanks Bona - must have def been fighting something as insulin requirements back to normal! DH has been knocked down with Norovirus so I'm hoping my immune system battled it. Please God let it have as he's in a bad way.

Do any of you lot find it grating when a non diabetic asks 'how your levels are' whilst cocking their head to one side. You know they're not going to understand the answer...as well meaning as they are it really irritates me! I think 'if only you knew...'. Must be my hormones!

If you eat only protein at a meal there's some rule in one of my books that says you should treat 1/3 of the protein as carbs because its processes in that way if there's no actual carbs taken iyswim. Having said that, I've never really low carbed so haven't tried it!

Mylittlepuds Tue 30-Oct-12 10:44:45

That's v interesting rude. Would account for my random high from cocktail sausages and cheese the other night.

BonaDea Tue 30-Oct-12 11:01:07

I've heard the same re shooting for protein. For me the requirement for insulin is never near 30%, though, it is something much lower than that.

Even when I have low carbed, which I have done quite a lot of over the time, I never went protein only so I would always have protein and veg on the plate, meaning I would always be having some carbs and therefore some insulin anyway...

puds - if it was a buffet, I imagine the sausages may well have not been 100% meat - they could well have been bulked out with breadcrumbs or similar, and these commercially produced buffet products are often laden with sugar as well. That may also have had something to do with it...