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Would you like your baby to be five times safer....

(93 Posts)
lagoonhaze Tue 01-May-12 22:22:39

in the car?

If so then check out extended rearfacing car seats.

When I had my DS i went down the traditional route of infant carrier and forward facing at around 9mths. I was blissfully unaware of the risks that forward facing seats could pose to a young child body.

I started to see posts on mumsnet about extended rear facing (ERF) and it sparked me to do further research.

From www.carseat.se

Children who sit rear facing in a car seat cut the risk for death or injury dramatically. But why is rear facing so much better and where did the idea come from?

There are three main reasons why rear facing is so much better. First one is the outstanding protection of a child’s head, neck and spine in frontal collision which is roughly 80% of accidents. Second is superior protection in side collisions. A rear facing child is pushed further into the car seat where it’s well protected. Third is a social reason, rear facing car seats often work better since driver/passenger can more easily communicated with the child

From before my DD was even conceived I knew she would be extended rearfacing and I set to work about slowly convincing my DP. I expected a struggle as this baby was his 3rd and my 2nd and all the other DCs were turned round like other around the year mark.

He looked at the research, videos and said yes knowing what I know now I, happy for us to ERF best start saving up for the seat!

Im pleased he has come to this conclusion with me as its something I feel very passionate about. However when I mention it to friends they look at me like I have two heads!

So if you want to check it out for yourself here are some good sites.

www.rearfacing.co.uk

This is their facebook site which can answer any questions

www.facebook.com/groups/209783279077720/357870094269037/?notif_t=group_activity#!/RearFacingTheWayForward

Another fab site is

www.carseat.se/

There are loads of seats becoming available due to consumer demand. This along with an expected law change in early 2013 to keep all babies rearfacing til 14 mths means hopefully they will become the norm.

helenlouisey Wed 02-May-12 08:14:10

Yep, my 3 and 1/2 year old is still in a rear facing car seat , real lack of awareness of the benefits of keeping children in rear facing car seats for as long as possible.

Great post Lagoonhaze, and anything that can be done to raise awareness is very worthwhile.

Hpbp Wed 02-May-12 09:50:09

Lagoon, thank you very much for this post, I wasn't aware of this at all. the rearfacing link speaks for itself, I am more than convinced.
Helen, can I ask you which car seat you are using for your 3.5 YO ? mine is same age and 100cm and 16kg.
Thanks

Iheartpasties Wed 02-May-12 10:06:20

Thank you for this. I will do some reading of your links and have a think about what type of car seats we will buy! We're (fingers crossed) getting a car soon so will need two car seats smile

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 11:27:01

Glad you have all found it useful. It really is something the government are letting people down on by lack of info.

On the rearfacing Facebook page there is a video that is really good. Cant link as on phone.

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 11:33:27

A seat which interests me is

http://www.securatot.co.uk/klippan-kiss-2?category_id=61

It's an infant carrier and an Erf. It appears pricey but when i think of what I've spent on my other seats it's not bad value!

We are getting a britax two way elite for out next seat as we have storage boxes.

Agreed - we have 2 BeSafe Izi Combi isofix seats from Paul Stride in York and my children (3.5 years, 1m tall and 17 kg, and 2 years, 84 cm tall and 14 kg) love being able to see out of the back windscreen.

My feeling is that more and more people are buying these seats now, which hopefully means that the prices will begin to drop even further.

On the Car Seats sub-forum there's lots of info and, if you shop carefully, you really don't end up spending much more than on a good FF seat.

AngelFairy Wed 02-May-12 11:46:06

Thank you.
I always thought changing them to forward was wrong, but we're forced to except the experts research... hmm

Hpbp Wed 02-May-12 11:51:38

Brilliant, many thanks, ladies for these info. I will have to look at carseats soon so will definitively keep your advice in mind.

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 18:18:20

Such lovely positive responses. If ERF has interested you please share your experiences amongst your friends especially new and expectant parents who are unaware it even exsists.

helenlouisey Wed 02-May-12 18:33:24

We also have the same car seat as frozen north pole, the besafe izi combi, the weight limit is 18kgs & don't think there are the same restrictions re height, but check this with retailer before you buy one. My son is very skinny so about 14 kgs so hoping to get another year or two use out of this car seat.

ragged Wed 02-May-12 18:35:06

ffs, zealots.
Neah, I'd rather my baby danced in middle of the lorry-ridden road. Why wouldn't I feel that way?

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 18:41:25

ragged?????

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 21:05:14

bumping for the evening crew

Daisybell1 Wed 02-May-12 22:53:53

Thanks for this. I've posted on the car seats site looking for advice on this matter. I think I'm convinced about the additional safety but with the proviso that the seats fit my cars properly. I think I'd prefer a properly fitting ff seat to a poorly fitting rear facing one.

lagoonhaze Wed 02-May-12 22:58:02

Hi fellow herqules fan club! Will have a look at your post x

lagoonhaze Fri 04-May-12 18:23:57

Bumping again

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 09:09:58

Bumping for the bank holiday crew!

ItsMyLastOne Mon 07-May-12 16:27:27

My sister has a klippan kiss in our mum's car. It was seriously useful when her dd gets sleepy whilst out, say at a party or something, and she can sleep in it and then be wheeled along (using the pull out handle and wheels on it) back to the car to go home. And she still fits ok to do this in the infant carrier part at 20 months. Although she is too tall to use just the infant carrier part in the car alone.

I have a maxi cosi mobi and besafe izi combi in my car. The maxi cosi is great but is quite long so not suited to all cars. The besafe is quite upright so probably best for older children, maybe 10+ months, but is super comfy looking with lots of padding.

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 16:35:26

We have a Klippan Kiss for our 2.5 yr old. It's great, and is our 3rd DC for be RF at that age. DC4 will also be kept RF for several years once they arrive in the Summer smile.

Flightty Mon 07-May-12 16:48:07

hiya, thanks for this thread...I'm not sure what we should do, as we already have a concord Ultimax for dc3, which is RF till 18 months, and a kiddy Comfort Pro which is like a 3 stage seat, but has an impact shield so I thought it was much safer than normal FF seats?

If anyone can suggest what to do I'd be obliged...can we keep the concord RF for longer? Would it still be safer?

And is our Maxi Cosi with the Easybase thingy any use? That's just till 9mo I think.

Thanks for any suggestions.

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 18:22:07

With the concorde you need to look at the weight limit. If your DC is still lighter than the weight limit and the top of their head is below the top of the seat then they should still fit regardless of age.

I don't think the impact shields make ff as safe as rf. It is to do with the movement of the child's head and neck during a front-on collision (which are vastly more likely than rear impact ones and more serious usually too).

There's a really good youtube clip, but I can't find it...

DuelingFanjo Mon 07-May-12 18:26:31

when they bring the price down I will buy one sad

unfortunately DS has been in a forward facing carseat for many months. I am inclined to agree with ragged. It was only after joining mumsnet that I realised there was so so much to feel guilty about as a parent sad

Flightty Mon 07-May-12 18:30:20

Thanks, Pesto - that makes sense, both points. Will keep checking the weight and so on so we can use the Concord as long as possible.

I've only used the kiddy for my 4yo so far, but was going to keep it as a spare for dc3, as you can use it from I think 9 months - but I don't like the idea of the impact shield covering the child almost entirely anyway smile

I'm glad we can go till 18 months at least unless we have a very fat baby.

Flightty Mon 07-May-12 18:31:21

I think cars should be designed so that the back seats all face backwards, neatly solving the problem.

And with integrated child securing thingies. Doesn't the Seat Alhambra have built in child restraints?

bishboschone Mon 07-May-12 18:34:54

Can someone explain to me where the child's legs go in these seats please?

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 18:59:36

bishboschone -with the seats we've had (3 different ones and yet another for grandparents car) there is a gap between the part of the child seat where their bottom goes and the back of the rear seat of the car. Their feet sit perfectly comfortably there smile. I think there are some images in this clip, which is not the one I was trying to find earlier and still can't find hmm

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 19:01:36

The clip I was looking for is on the rearfacing.co.uk homepage. D'oh!

They also have a gallery of pictures smile

bronze Mon 07-May-12 19:11:13

I understand that's rear facing is safer so why when trying to prove that point do they show forward facing seat that are so appallingly fitted. It makes their good argument look poorer

bishboschone Mon 07-May-12 19:12:11

I see , they are further forward. Can anyone recommend one for when ds grows out of his cabriofix .. Would like isofix if possible .thank you .

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 19:19:09

bishbosch What sort of car do you have? Do you have under floor storage boxes (lots of people carriers do)? That can really restrict your isofix xhoices as nearly all use a support leg.

bronze Did you watch the crash test videos? They're not badly fitted, the forces are just so great that's what actual ff seats do in crashes.

bishboschone Mon 07-May-12 19:20:58

An Audi a2

bronze Mon 07-May-12 19:22:57

I watched and also watched a few other forward facing crash tests and though the child had bad forces on them the seats didn't move that dramatically. As I said I know that rear facing is safer, I'm not defending anything just saying they don't help their own argument

bishboschone Mon 07-May-12 19:24:24

I just looked at videos . They are big old things aren't they. I have a bad back and was looking forward to him being forward facing but I have watched the video And I get that they are a lot safer .

nancerama Mon 07-May-12 19:32:11

I see further up thread a couple of posters asked about when to upgrade from infant carriers.

The Maxi Cosi Cabriofix is suitable up to 13kg, or until your babies head hangs over the top. Many parents upgrade as soon as the feet are approaching the front of the seat, but there really isn't any need.

I have a Mini (our only car), and I'm not sure how possible it will be to move to EFR, but I do know that I can keep DS in his cabriofix for a long time yet.

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 19:32:26

Well, out of the 4 seats I've had personal experience of the ones I've liked best were the klippan kiss and BeSafe Izikid (not the combi that is reversible, the kid -not sure if it's available in the UK, we imported it from www.carseat.se). The Kiss is more compact. When we got it it was one of only three seats that had passed the most stringent Swedish safety tests, but I now can't find that info. It was v v easy to fit. The Izikid we had was an earlier model than the current one and before they made the isofix version. Fitting it with the belt was a bit of a palaver, but I imagine isofix would be much easier. Our other seat was an older Britax one not sold any more. The grandparents one is a two way elite, which lots of people love because it fits so many cars and is so versatile. It's not isofix and I'm always a little concerned that it seems to have less side impact protection than the others.

To be honest, all the rf seats are so much safer than the ff seats that as long as you choose one that fits your particular car, it is likely to be good.

DanceToTheIslandBeat Mon 07-May-12 19:32:42

If you need advice on which erf seat would best suit you/your car, the in car safety centre in mk are brilliant, really helpful.

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 19:34:42

bishbosch -yes they are big and heavy to fit. But, once fitted no need to move them, they just stay in the car. They are generally high up, so no more bending needed than a ff group 1 I'd say. The kids get a great view out of the windows smile.

ZenNudist Mon 07-May-12 19:36:33

Good idea to post this in pregnancy section. Raise awareness as early as possible. Lots of my friends bought a family fix base by maxi cosi which meant they could upgrade from rf to ff. They were not happy when they realised they'd made a costly mistake, most just stuck with buying the ff one they'd been sold on before birth.

It's very annoying that you can't buy rf at prime highstreet outlets, halfords mothercare etc. Also annoying that these outlets spread anti- rf messages about poorly fitting seats. We used the in car safety centre in Milton Keynes. They had online videos of how to fit seats. Don't know about anyone else but we have to take the seat out of dh's car from time to time & need to refit the seat safely ourselves. Ours is really easy to do though. It's a britax 2-way elite.

RandomMess Mon 07-May-12 19:39:14

bump

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 19:41:16

Some John Lewis branches do sell the Recaro Polaric (which is isofix, but we found quite upright when we tried it in our previous car) and also the Izicombo.

I agree it is a great shame they are not more widely known about and visible in high street retailers in the UK.

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 19:51:01

Zennudist Yep thats the very reason I posted it in pregnancy. The family fix kind of ties you in to going forward facing and often pregnant people havent considered rearfacing.

If everyone on this thread on favour of ERF could join the facebook page

www.facebook.com/groups/209783279077720/357870094269037/?notif_t=group_activity#!/RearFacingTheWayForward

and share on their wall then pregnant friends/new parents could become more aware. Its mumsnet that made me more aware and that group. My DD will be in a TWE as we have storage boxes in one car.

bishboschone Have a good look at the different seats. You may actually find it easier on your back as you are squeezing and twisting to get into the door opening gap.

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 19:58:39

pestopenguin ItsmylastoneDid you have people look at you like you had two heads when you went ERF? My friends think Im mad! Im pass caring though!

Duellingfango I agree cost can be a factor but the one Im getting is £200 and many chidlren outgrown their 9mth-4yrs before 4yrs and end up buying another seat so all in all I dont think its too bad. If more people targeted the manufactuers then price would come down.

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 20:01:19
PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 20:01:24

People generally look at me like I have two heads, so I'm not sure I'd notice tbh grin

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 20:12:27

I just saw your comment about a sling on another thread. I can imagine. (Strokes wrap) People are looking at me the same way and I havent even got my seat yet! Love it!

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 20:15:02

With me these days I think it's more to do with the 3 kids under 8 and being v pregnant, LOL.

lagoonhaze Mon 07-May-12 21:09:26

pesto grin and congratulations!

ItsMyLastOne Mon 07-May-12 21:58:40

No one has thought it strange tbh, but probably because we started talking about to friends and family before even needing an ERF. There are no parents we know now, I don't think, who haven't had the ERF spiel! wink Strangers in car parks or driving behind might question it but I don't notice!

In terms of legs, even if you get one which touches, or pretty much touches the seat of the car it's absolutely fine. If you think about it logically, a child in an ERF seat can cross their legs, rest them against the seat of the car, bend them etc, but in a FF seat they just hang. With hanging legs they are more likely to get reduced circulation in their legs due to the pressure. So really, even with seeming as though they have no space, they're actually better off.

The Besafe izi combi and klippan kiss both have no leg so are suitable for more cars. The klippan kiss is isofix and the besafe izi combi is available as isofix or non-isofix.

I know many people have an issue with the price, but many people spend £100-150 on a FF seat, and an ERF is £200-300. If something awful happened to your child in an accident and they were left injured, permanently disabled or worse <shudder> would you still be glad you saved £100-150 by buying a FF seat when an ERF could have protected your child's future??????

If anyone is in or near Birmingham, I know a place which often has ex display seats from the in car safety centre in Milton Keynes. Just pm me and I'll send you the info. Last time I was there they had a few Besafe Izi Combis, they've had Britax Hiways. A few different types.

PestoPenguin Mon 07-May-12 22:12:57

I have a klippan kiss and it definitely does have a support leg.

hellymelly Mon 07-May-12 22:20:43

We have the Britax 2 way for both dds. DD1 is seven! she is very light, and the seat is tall, so she is lucky to have fitted it for so long- we now have to get her a booster seat as she is at the height limit for the seat. Shame really as she is still within the weight limit. I agree with Flightty that rear facing back seats in cars would help.
When we first got our older dd a rf seat, we'd just bought her a new seat and it was really expensive, but after seeing a link on here (and having friends in Sweden) we bought her a rf Britax right away. Both dds like their seats and my smaller one, who was five this week, still has plenty of height/weight to go before she will need a ff facing seat, so they have lasted a long time.

JJWMummy Mon 07-May-12 23:09:54

Have to say haze, the obvious answer to the question your post poses is 'yes' most definately.
However, as a lot of others have said it is v v expensive. I have 3 dc aged 13, 5 & 18 mths, I will not be having anymore and have purchased car seats already. As much as I appreciate what you are saying regarding the safety of rf it unfortunately just loads on the guilt, as we just can't afford to replace car seats at the click of our fingers. We have two cars and from what i've read two children who would require these seats, I just don't have a grand to spare at the moment, and i don't believe for one minute i'm alone in this.

I have a child with a brain injury, compared to that of an accident at 40mph and completely understand the life changing nature of disability, though this doesn't change my financial situation.

Not suggesting for one minute you are wrong in promoting these seats, i think you are quite right to do so, stats speak for themselves, but i do think you could be a little more careful in your wording.

lagoonhaze Tue 08-May-12 07:08:05

JJWmummy- where do I need to be more careful in my wording? I haven't said anything to berate parents who forward face? I have a 4.7 yr old who is forward facing. I understand it's hard to switch back and cost is often a prohibiting factor.

I posted this in pregnancy to try and raise awareness of expectant parents who may be looking at car seats for the first time or replacing older siblings seats that have expired.

Also the cheapest RF seat is £200- so it's £400 not a grand! No saying you should go out and spend that but don't want other posters to think thats the cost.

As for my title of the thread well it's a fact and the aim was to draw posters in amongst the threads on morning sickness, hospital bags etc.

Ragged called me a zealot which was unfair and unnecessary. I have made no judgements on parents who forward facing their children or who decide not to go down the ERF route.

lagoonhaze Tue 08-May-12 07:12:04

Just realised you have two cars. Yes I can see why you quoted a grand. We've decided to get just one seat for my partners car as he will do majority of school/nursery run. If I do it I will Walk it as we are lucky to live close enough and on those days I'm would be studying from home. Otherwise it's I'll change the seat/swap cars.

That's our compromise- just one seat as finances are poor.

ItsMyLastOne Tue 08-May-12 08:52:22

You're absolutely right pesto blush The klippan kiss got fitted about a year ago and is in the back of my mum's 3 door car, and the leg is very different in design to others and is very narrow and close to the seat, so I just completely forgot it's there! Oops!

to the person who mentioned having a bad back - if you have a car with more than 3 doors then it will most definitely be easier to get a child out of an ERF seat. I find it much easier, especially in car parks where you may not be able to open the door very wide. This is because you just open the door and are standing in the more open part of the doorway, then unstrap your child and pull them straight towards you. Easy. With a FF seat you have to squeeze further in to get at the harness and then have to twist and use much more effort to pull them around towards you. You're much more likely to be hurting your back that way.

JJWMummy I think it's very unfair to be jumping on lagoon about this. As she said, she's put this in pregnancy not in AIBU!
Far too many people just get their child to 9 months and turn them FF, spending around £100+ on a new seat. Well if they wait until their child has actually outgrown their infant carrier, that will give them more time to save. My DD outgrew her infant carrier at around 16-17 months so that would have given me another 7 ish months to save £3.50 per week and I would then have an extra £105 to put towards an ERF. In actual fact I am a student and work part time earning a grand total of £400 per month (including child benefit) but I could afford it. For me, my priority is my child and there are times like this when I can make sacrifices for my child's safety.
Also if people just go for an ERF from the beginning, something like the klippan kiss, they wcould actually save money by not needing to buy an infant carrier and then a stage 1 seat later on.

blondieminx Tue 08-May-12 09:12:36

Just to say that if you are considering ERF then the Britax 2 way Elite is a great seat and is v easy to fit, we switch ours between a ford focus and a Peugeot 206 with no probs. We got ours from here and it was delivered 2 days after I ordered.

Great thread Lagoon, and a great idea to put it in the pregnancy topic smile

lagoonhaze Tue 08-May-12 16:34:43

itsmylastone I'm a student too! To afford ERF we have to save. I'm using cloth nappies most of the time and buying secondhand clothes. Both partly for eco reasons, the fact I think buying new is wasteful but also cos we are skint.

The more time parents have to save up the less a financial hit it would be. Plus something like the klippan kiss it is possible it would save money long term. Do you know if the infant carrier is pushchair
Compatible? If not they should make it so and it would be a excellent all rounder.

lagoonhaze Tue 08-May-12 16:37:57

blondiemix thank you. Thought it was a way of reaching more people.

I'm likely to be getting a TWE too as I have storage boxes.

ellliebelle Tue 08-May-12 21:16:25

do you have a link for tbe facebook page? it doesnt appear to work sad

lagoonhaze Tue 08-May-12 21:49:49

Can't link at mo as on phone. Search for

Rear facing - the way forward.

Will link when on laptop. Sorry.

lagoonhaze Wed 09-May-12 10:51:30
ItsMyLastOne Wed 09-May-12 11:26:18

I remember my sister saying the klippan kiss infant carrier is compatible with a pushchair but she said it was some random one and she'd never seen one before. It's still a really useful car seat though.

Thanks for the links too!

lagoonhaze Wed 16-May-12 14:09:24

If you get chance to ask her can you see if she remembers which one? Thanks.

ItsMyLastOne Wed 16-May-12 15:01:07

I can't find details on their site but she thinks it was just one of the Klippan pushchairs.

PestoPenguin Wed 16-May-12 16:35:48

According to the brochure it fits the Graco mosaic and mirage plus. Not sure if either is available in the UK without the infant carrier.

PestoPenguin Wed 16-May-12 16:36:37

Spoke too soon, there's at least one on eBay

lagoonhaze Wed 16-May-12 21:11:32

Thanks Pesto- I found that brochure and completely missed that bit about the graco strollers!

MushroomMagee Wed 16-May-12 21:41:06

Is there somewhere I can look at all the seats and compare? I need a new seat for DC2, though not for a little while. I'd like isofix and we have a vauxhall astra estate. Doesn't need to be from birth as I have an infant car seat already.

Having read this info I definitely think we will be going with rear facing, but I'm a little overwhelmed and under informed!

PestoPenguin Wed 16-May-12 21:57:53

Essex road safety people seem to have all of them and will happily fit them into you car (in various combinations if you have several children). As far as I know they have the most complete set available, and I've not come across a retailer that stocks the full range. The Milton Keynes In Car Safety Centre have a good range, but by no means all. Most other retailers sell only a few.

lagoonhaze Sat 19-May-12 07:35:58

Like pesto says Essex as a great range to test. Alternatively check out rearfacing.co.uk for a list of stockists.

Another thing you could do is ring your local independent nursery store and ask if they stock them. If they don't the more enquiries they get the more they will realise people do actually want them.

lagoonhaze Sat 26-May-12 18:35:05

Keeping bumped so as many expectant parents can be aware of the choices.

lagoonhaze Fri 22-Jun-12 19:16:45

Bumping as I expect there are some more expectant parents who may benefit from seeing this.

lagoonhaze Sat 04-Aug-12 20:25:26

Bumping it for more expectant parents making car seat choices.

leeloo1 Sat 04-Aug-12 22:23:46

Just a quick note to say that if need to swap car seats between 2 cars, then if you get the 2-way elite then you can buy an extra set of tethers for £25 - you can then leave each set permanently attached in a car and you just have to clip the car seat on to them and thread the seat belt through - very quick and easy. smile

lagoonhaze Sun 05-Aug-12 11:32:42

TWE is a great seat if only britax would allow it to be more widely sold. One of the reasons I'm looking elsewhere brand wise is because if my annoyance with britax over their refusal to Market TWE.

leeloo1 Sun 05-Aug-12 13:46:50

Lol Lagoonhaze - thats one reason to not choose a carseat.

We trekked to the incarsafetycentre place in Milton Keynes and it was the only rear facing seat that fits in our tiny 3-door Yaris. smile

doublevodkaandcoke Sun 05-Aug-12 15:56:23

Does anyone actually have a Britax two way elite?

I think we are going to get DS a ERF seat (he isn nearly 12 months and has just gone into a maxi cosi priori sps, but I think we are going to move that into DH's car which is a mazda mx 5 which DS will not be riding in very often, and getting a ERF for our main car).

I have looked at the TWE as it is the cheapest, but it just seems a bit flimsy compared to the other seats. The other ones look very bulky, strong and sturdy but the TWE just looks a bit, I dont know, crap! I am sure its not as it wouldnt be sold if it wasnt safe, but does anyone have experience of it?

leeloo1 Sun 05-Aug-12 17:26:42

I do have the 2 way elite and so far its been a good seat for us. DS has been in it since he was about 1 (sorry its a blurry memory now - he is tall for his age, so maybe a bit earlier than that? He was in the maxi-cosi baby seat before that) and he's now almost 4 and its still going strong. His head is close to the top - but then he's still tall for his age. I like that you can recline it lots/little bit depending how you fit it.

DS has never been in a FF seat, so has nothing to compare it to, but he's happy in it and just plays with toys or looks out of the window on journeys... we do do a countdown to exciting things for him as he'll see them after us 'there'll be a tractor/windmill/car transporter on your/mummy's side in 3,2,1... do you see the tractor?'

I guess it is smaller than some RF other seats, but that means it fits in our car! I'm always impressed with how firmly it fits in - the seatbelt holds it firm to the rear seat, the tethers hold it firm to the front seat - and you also reverse the front seat to hold it firmly that way too.

lagoonhaze Wed 31-Oct-12 13:18:32

bumping for the depths for all the new expectant parents

NAR4 Wed 31-Oct-12 15:27:08

Great post.

I became aware of these seats 4th time around, from posts on mumsnet. We bought one for our daughter and its great. Its just a shame that when you ask in the main retailers such as mothercare or halfords you get told incorrectly that they are not available in britain as they don't fit our cars. It took me a lot of internet searching to get one as my hubby wanted them to fit it in our car and not buy it mail order.

kellestar Wed 31-Oct-12 18:24:07

DD is in a Britax First Class plus which is only rear facing up to 13kg [which is plenty for her, 22 months and 9.6kg] but I really really struggled to get advice for my car. I live near Bristol and could not find an ERF stockist where I could try car seats in my car. A couple of independants were happy to order in for me, but they were non-returnable so need to check fit before hand... kinda defeats the object. We had to install longer seatbelts in our car to suit the FC+, professionally fitted in our Renault Megane 2001. It sits well now, but you need to have the front seats on the closest to dash setting, fine for me, but DH cannot get in the car. MiL's new Fiesta can not have my car seat in a rear facing position, she is most disgruntled, the front seats do not move far enough forward to even put the seat in without the position being affected.

Scandanavia have it right, is it Sweden that it's compulsory until 3 to be ERF?

I am due DC2 in the spring and would like to move DD into a more ERF seat but still struggling to find a supplier where I can try it out [without having to drive hours away]. We are also thinking about replacing our car in the near future and having to think about what car's/what ERF will fit.

There was an event hosted by the local council to check car seats at a nearby supermarket. I came at the end of the day, I was the first with a rear facing toddler and out of 160 odd cars that day only 4 had the car seat correctly fitted and had their child in the car seat appropriate for their age. They put an update on their website about a week later, making aware some of the examples of poor fitting and children being put forward facing too early, it was shocking to read. They have since asked to come into bumps/babys/toddler groups to give a short talk and some website links. They were very pro ERF and I couldn't believe how many other mums didn't realise that it's 9kg not 9 months [and it's not just the mums, Mothercare and Toys R Us had letters of complaint from me about their advice].

I often dip into the car seat boards and see if there are any new local business offering the try before you buy service, I'd love to try some of the ERF seats I hear about on here.

lagoonhaze Thu 01-Nov-12 13:56:32

Kellestar youve got securatot near you I think?

Local council sounds great.

Mothercare are getting the Besafe range but like NAR4 pointed out halfords are completely uninterested!

kellestar Thu 01-Nov-12 19:37:37

securatot are about 2 hours away, trying to bribe DH into combining it into a day trip and go somewhere nice nearby. smile

It's nice to have a pro-active council, just wish that major retailers were as enthusiastic.

lagoonhaze Thu 01-Nov-12 21:18:06

If possible try to go one day in the week as Saturdays are likely to busy.

Until recently the ERF was 4hrs away!

lagoonhaze Wed 21-Nov-12 08:36:21

Another bump...trying to make as many expectant parents aware esp as the law is changing in 2013 to make RF complusory til 15mths which is an improvement but still not adequate.

emersonkelly Wed 21-Nov-12 09:03:39

Flightty's idea is good. The cars should be designed in a way that provides lot of comfort for babies and pregnant women!!

lagoonhaze Thu 22-Nov-12 19:28:06

That would be cool.

midori1999 Fri 23-Nov-12 02:26:04

We've just bought the new Cybex Sirona ERF seat from Mamas and Papas, it should arrive tomorrow. It's isofix only, but quite small compared to most ERF seats. It turns on the base towards the door to put your child in and can also FF with a bumper bar thingy instead of the harness. It's pricey at £400, but we figured it is worth it.

I've just got the britax baby safe shr II and base as after lots of research I decided with two big dcs, a nursery run and school run I needed a click and go option still, it seems to be a larger infant seat and a blooming impressive one at that, I'm after the two way elite when dc3 outgrows the baby safe. I was unaware of erf for the big two, but they're still in britax evolva 123+ seats at 5.4 and 4yo and are staying in them until they no longer need seats, I hate the simple booster cushions all there friends are on, I feel quite sick seeing children without sips.

lagoonhaze Sat 24-Nov-12 17:13:30

The cybex sirona is an intersting new concept but I think M&P have hiked the price up at bit especially as ERF seats are easy to put child in anyway due to not having to twist into smallest part of door.

What are your thoughts on it now its arrived? Do you think it will last a long time?

midori1999 Sat 24-Nov-12 17:40:40

M&P are expensive anyway, so it's natural 'their' ERF seat would be on the expensive side. I really like it, it fits in our car much well and I prefer it to the Besafe seat we looked at at a local retailer. In fact, it was then that suggested it to us in the summer as the owner of the shop had seen it at a trade show. It's very easy to fit in the car too, even compared to other isofix seats. it seems like it will last as long as it says it should to me.

We bought the Britax first class plus as an interim whilst waiting for the Sirona to come out and although being reassured by several retailers it was in fact correctly fitted in the car, it never seemed that great to me tbh.

I think the very fact that a 'mainstream' chain like M&P are stocking an ERF seat will help raise their profile and that can only be a good thing.

lagoonhaze Sat 24-Nov-12 18:10:27

We have had similar concerns with the Britax FC too. Glad you like the new seat and yes glad a mainstream chain stocking ERF.

Stateofconfusion. Yes the babysafe is one of the largest infant carriers so hopefully will last a long time.

lagoonhaze Thu 20-Dec-12 10:11:22

update: mandatory rearfacing til 15mths

It is not known when it become mandatory but I have heard mid 2013. The car seat manufacteurs are already bringing out new seats that could accomadate this but most are stop gap type seats instead of decent extended rear facing. See carseat.se for the latest news from a baby show

Here are some bulletins and press releases on it

www.anec.eu/attachments/ANEC-PR-2012-PRL-017final.pdf

www.anec.eu/anec.asp?p=newsletter&ref=02-01

And here are some good resources for info on extended rearfacing (as well as carseat.se)

www.rearfacing.co.uk

https://www.facebook.com/#!/RearFacingTheWayForward?fref=ts

(please like the facebook page to get updates)

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