Vaccines

[bunny85]

Hi all,

I'm 23+1 and had a routine check at the hospital today. The mw told me I should book an appt for Whooping cough and flu vaccines at around 28 weeks. Obviously I'd do anything to protect me baby if needed, but I've heard lots of conflicting info re vaccines (i.e. they may cause developmental delays, autism and what not). I understand it's only a risk, and possibly for some women the benefit would outweigh it. I'm not working atm, and spend the most of my days at home or having a walk in the park or doing grocery shopping. Am I at risk of this cough and flu? What are people's general view re vaccines in pregnancy? Would love to hear your opinions to make a decision.

Thanks in advance

[Topsy34]

There have been several threads about whooping cough vaccine, so i would have a look at those. The point of the whooping cough vaccine is to pass some of the anti bodies to your baby as opposed to protect you.

As for flu....its not flu season!

Autism link, i believe, has been discredited. I think you need to talk to your mw or gp about it more, but do bare in mind that they do not receive a huge amount of training in this area, so will be following nice/nhs guidelines. If you are unsure ask for studies that give you evidence to make a balanced decision

[mummyneedinganswers]

I'm all for them, don't get flu vaccine until flu season normally sep/Oct i have my flu jab every year due to asthma and I always get it and it attatcks my chest. The whooping cough is dangerous for baby's and my opinion is if I didn't get the vaccine and my baby got whooping cough I'm not sure I could personally live with guilt knowing I could have gave my baby a chance by vaccinating against it. There are risks with every procedure vaccine and medication and if you read into risks too much you would take anything xx

[mummyneedinganswers]

Wouldn't take anything*

[GuybrushThreepwoodMP]

Have them. Absolutely no evidence of any risk. Claims of autism etc have been completely discredited and yet people continue to scaremonger.
Don't need flu until flu season. Have whooping cough at 28 weeks and your baby will be protected from a potentially life threatening illness which has made a comeback in recent years. Absolutely no reason not to.
Herd immunity only works if people actually get the vaccinations.

[Skiptonlass]

The autism link has been comprehensively, utterly, totally discredited.

Let me just say that NO serious medics/scientists are debating this issue - there is no conflict in the medical world. There's a lot of shit on the Internet, but you know that anyway..;)

Vaccines do NOT cause developmental delays. They do not cause autism, they do not trigger autism. What they do is prevent you and your previous, vulnerable babe from getting potentially lethal diseases. Whooping cough kills - it almost killed me as a baby. For a healthy adult it's a miserable thing to get, you'd feel shit for weeks. For a newborn, it's life threatening.

The vaccine has a really great safety profile (all drugs and vaccines are monitored for many years after release - if that surveillance picks up issues then they are collated and action is taken. So far the WC vaccine has 'slightly sore arm for a bit' as the major one :) )

Whooping cough is on the increase as the antivaxx lobby spread their lethal misinformation. It comes in waves of roughly four years and 2015-2016 is likely to be a peak.

Please, please, please get the vaccine. There are no downsides, only benefits. Grocery shopping, a bus ride, all possible exposures. Living in a rural area isn't much protection. Lowered vaccine rates and the 'I'll be ok' mindset are very dangerous.

It's not flu season yet, but when it is, get that too!

[bunny85]

Thank you everyone for your opinions, especially Skiptonlass for a scientific explanation, as this always does the trick with me. I think I'll have to go for it My mum is also pushing me, along with my friends who say that I 'read, think and worry too much'.

The reason for my constant doubts though is this: you are saying they keep monitoring all medicines/vaccines for many years and if something is found, action is taken. Now, how can we be sure that this process is now completed and there will be nothing found from now on? What about women who had a certain drug/vaccine which then was found to have one of these adverse effects, action was taken, but for these women that was just too late? How do we know that we are the generation when all the scientific experiments have ended and we know the complete truth about them all (including these vaccines, provided they have only been around not so long)?

Sorry for the long post but this is just thinking out loud, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just for the discussion purpose only. I am this sort of person

[UrethraFranklin1]

Now, how can we be sure that this process is now completed and there will be nothing found from now on?

You can't. But then you can't say that drinking coke will never ever cause you to grow two heads. On the balance of everything known about coke, its not very likely. And after many many years of monitoring vaccines, we know what they do and don't do to people. There is no reason coke will suddenly cause you to mutate, and no reason the whooping cough vax will suddenly do anything that it hasn't done to the millions of people who have already had it.

[Skiptonlass]

Now, how can we be sure that this process is now completed and there will be nothing found from now on?

It's actually a very good question. It's never completed really, we keep looking! We use a concept called the 'power' of the study. The smaller the effect is, the more people it takes to see the effect. Think of it like this. Let's say one in ten women gets a sore warm arm after the jab. If you give the jab to a hundred women, you'd see ten of these. Now let's say one in ten thousand has a bad headache. You'd need a few tens of thousands to see this effect.

So far, about 20,000 women have had the jab. For vaccines, that's a pretty good number to see if there are any bad effects. The work continues, but I'm cool with it. :)

[Iammad]

I had the whopping cough jab last year, and will be having it again when I'm 28 weeks.
I had no problems other then an achey arm for a few hours.
My middle son has autism and I no way belive that his jabs give him this.
All my other children had them, and will continue to do so.

[bunny85]

Thank you very much everyone.

Skiptonlass, that really makes a lot of sense. But then, how about some long term effects that people may not even link to the cause (be it vaccine or whatever is being studied). Say small effect, but as I see it, there's no way of really knowing whether the vaccine caused it or it would have developed regardless? Plus there are so many different effects to look out for, as I believe you got to actively look out for a certain suspected effect and do studies about it, so there is no way they would just totally scan every person for all possible long term problems they might have developed... And like I said, even if they do find one, how would they know it's definitely the result of the vaccine... Skiptonlass, really looking forward to your opinion. I always wanted to discuss things like this with a scientific person

PS: I'm going to do the vaccines. This discussion is purely due to curiosity re how it all works.

[Junosmum]

A man I work with had the whooping cough vaccine at age 11, he had an allergic reaction and now has severe learning disabilities, Cerebral Palsy and epilepsy, however this was an allergic reaction, it wasn't the vaccine, just something in his physical make up which caused it. Hasn't stopped me wanting the vaccine. Things happen, people have reactions, some people have autism, but lots of babies are at risk of dying from whooping cough, it's a risk I'd take, it's safer than crossing the road!

[dottiemad]

FYI this year the flu jab is 'the wrong strain' so not as as effective as it should be.

[bunny85]

Junosmum, thanks exactly what I'm talking about... Allergic reaction or not, it is a reaction to vaccine... Oh dear. What do I do.

Dottiemad, is it really. Maybe I should leave it then. I'm due end of November, but will be induced earlier, maybe I can just get away with it and flu season will start after I've given birth! Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.

[Brummiegirl15]

Flu season starts in September. This is why the vaccine is available then.

There is no conspiracy or scientists hiding things. Vaccines save lives

[dottiemad]

This is what I was told by my GP, ask your midwife or GP. x

[pocketsized]

But you could have an allergic reaction to all sorts of things, peanuts, strawberries, penicillin etc. There's always a first time for having these, so it's no different/more likely with a vaccine.

Whilst it is impossible to absolutely categorically rule out any very rare side effects to vaccines, it is possible to see any statistically significant ones (e.g ones that are 'likely' to happen) we definitely know that whopping cough is dangerous to small babies. I therefore belive the risk of not vaccinating is higher than the risk of not.

[bunny85]

I agree, pocketsized, but allergic reaction to strawberries or penicillin wouldn't leave one with severe learning disabilities and cerebral palsy... It's mainly rash or itchiness, yes rarely they can be lethal too, but with an appropriate injection of adrenaline and antihistamines that can be treated. Whereas with vaccines things seem more complex to me..

[misssmilla1]

bunny did you read about this well publicized case in Australia? The couple's son died at 4 weeks old after he contracted WC.

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/grieving-dads-message-for-anti-immunisation-parents-after-whooping-cough-death/story-fnet08xa-1227268866019

[UrethraFranklin1]

It's about vague possibilities of unknown and unknowable risk vs very real, concrete risk. Since 2012 24 babies have died from WC in the UK.
No serious reactions have been reported from the vaccine, zero babies or pregnant women have died or been injured i any known way.

To me thats a very simple sum, 24 dead babies vs 0 dead babies.

[bunny85]

Yeah I'm gonna go for it. I'm just worrying all the time...

[UrethraFranklin1]

A much bigger worry not to get it.

I had mine two weeks ago. Apart from a lump under the injection site I had no problems. It's not even a live vaccine.

[bunny85]

Thanks for the reassurance Urethra.

Misssmilla, omg this is tragic. Yes I suppose people who can't make a decision should know about stories like this...

[Skiptonlass]

In answer to your second question, we do monitor things and we do pick stuff up for various drugs- even stuff you think might not immediately be linked to the drug/vaccine.

Regarding allergy - you can be allergic to anything (some poor folk have an inability to tolerate water on the skin, imagine that!) there's no real difference in the effects of an allergic reaction to say, a bee sting and one to a vaccine if they are true allergic reactions. Such a reaction doesn't cause autism or developmental delay it causes anaphylactic shock. The association between vaccines and developmental delay was mooted by Andrew Wakefield who in my view, is responsible for many deaths, and it's been comprehensively debunked. There is no link.

Everything in life is a risk. We weigh up the positives and negatives and we make a choice. The risk of having an allergic reaction is tiny. The risk of getting whooping cough is real and present- on the other thread I posted a link to the government data on recorded cases by region - these are the tip of the iceberg as many cases go unreported.

[mrsatkinson]

I have never heard of anaphylaxis causing developmental problems or autism?
they are completely different things and I think its madness people try to correlate the two.
You cant catch autism... I hate all this scaremongering. your child either has autism or doesnt. a vaccine won't give your child autism. If vaccines gave people autism, people much older would surely also be at risk? Its ridiculous.
if they are allergic it may give them a rash or most severly anaphylaxis.
I have had both flu and wc jabs, I wouldnt think twice.

[LittlePeasMummy1]

Here are some leaflets on use of these vaccines in pregnancy- hope you find them helpful

www.medicinesinpregnancy.org/Medicine--pregnancy/whooping-cough-vaccine/

www.medicinesinpregnancy.org/Medicine--pregnancy/Flu-vaccine/