Would you like to be on Mumsnet's research panel? We're especially keen for parents-to-be and new parents to join. You can sign up here - there's (nearly) always a great incentive on offer for your views.

Birth plan for my illegitimate baby :)

(55 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.

Charingcrossbun Mon 27-Jan-14 19:00:24

Just had a thought: I'm going to write a birth plan (even though I realise these things can't be planned). It just occurred to me though as we're not married do I need to put something about DP being the dad, my next of kin and having the right to make decisions should it all go wrong & I not be able to (worst case scenario I know). Am I being silly? I don't suppose husbands are asked to bring marriage certificates along but just thought I'd check. grin

Clargo55 Tue 28-Jan-14 09:34:29

That's crap Shelly sad Hope it all goes well for you when new baby arrives thanks

Do you have anyone in RL? Sister/brother even trusted friend?

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 13:47:27

Can't believe that this thread still contains the I word.

angry

I thought that mumsnet would come along and amend the title. It's not a valid piece of terminology anymore, as since 1984, thanks to some EU regulation I think, children have the same rights whether or not their parents are married. It's the adults who will have fewer rights.

bakingaddict Tue 28-Jan-14 14:01:48

Ahtrawes

I don't see how a standard will could be legally contested by the family. I doubt the OP is of unsound mind or is signing the will under duress or whatever the criteria is to overturn a will.

Even if you get married, it's still prudent to do a will regarding guardianship of children just in case of the remote possibility that both of you may be involved in a tragic accident.

Basil I think it was always clear the OP had her tongue in cheek with the title and even if it wasn't clear she has now made it so and addressed you directly. I really don't think you need to be overly concerned.

flatmum Tue 28-Jan-14 16:04:04

I have 3 dc with my partner of almost 20 years and he is named as father on all 3 birth certificates so has parental responsibility for them all. We also both have wills where we indicate that everything (including the dc!) passes to the surviving partner in the event of one of our deaths and we have named their guardians (my sister and her husband) should we both die. Nobody would contest this as everyone knows this is what we want.

I don't see why you can't do the will before the birth to cover that period between the birth and registration.

I agree about being bullied into marriage. Apart from this issue, which can be covered with a will, the only disadvantage as it stands now to not being married (assuming you have mirror wills) is that you can't pass assets to the other person on death without inheritance tax (as far as I know).

Given the fact of civil partnerships for same sex couples where, I believe, they have the same rights as married couples, it can only be a matter of time before heterosexual couples such as myself and my partner can declare a civil partnership and it will all be covered by that.

you really need a will when you have children I think so you might as well just do them now?

Jeanniejampots80 Tue 28-Jan-14 16:15:51

Just to point out that the case in Ireland was extra exceptional as the medical care required was to withdraw care and let the baby unfortunately die. So there was no time for the courts and the father and grandmother and hospital did not wish to prolong the baby's treatment/suffering by waiting for the long way around for the father to get his official rights which he would obv have been given baring any unsuitable circumstances etc.

I work in a job that regularly requires a legal document and most in married dads are well aware that they have no legal rights re the kids. We always have to ask if they are married. It's ridiculous but true.

flatmum Tue 28-Jan-14 16:19:26

Lots of unmarried dads have legal rights - they just need to be named on the birth certificate, post 2003.

So I hope you ask that, rather than if they are married.

Incidentally my DP has never been asked, in 10 years.

I'm really glad I read this, I'll have to talk to DP about sorting out wills before the baby comes.

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 17:56:56

Shellywelly1973, that beggars belief, he won't even give his children his name , wow... You're better off without him even though four children won't be easy. I hope the first three are old enough to be some help!

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 17:57:57

I disagree NL, I think it risks normalising a word that has (rightly) fallen out of usage.

JanePurdy Tue 28-Jan-14 18:03:39

BasilandLime I've seen on MN that people have been advised by solicitors they need to re register children born before their marriage so they have the same inheritance rights as children born during the marriage, are you saying that is no longer the case?

Of course it doesn't 'risk normalising' it. hmm It's a single thread title using the phrase ironically and with humour to attract attention to the Op's query.

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 21:45:32

I disagree very strongly. This thread is being seen by a lot of people and mumsnet have just left the term there. That sends a message that it is acceptable.

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 21:48:29

Jane Purdy, if a child's father's name is on the birth cert and the child is born after 1st December 2003, then the parents' marital status doesn't affect the child.

In fact, (directed by EU regulations) Ireland took the significant step of removing the term "Ilegitimate" from the constitution. it's an invalid piece of terminology now. A child can inherit from an unmarried father, a child can inherit from an UN named father! (if dna test is court ordered)

No it sends a message that they don't over-react and have sensitivity to context and content.

BasilandLime Tue 28-Jan-14 21:51:28

Nonsense NL, you normally talk sense but that argument is flawed. Not "over reacting" to something offensive and out dated is not commendable. I shall not provide comparisons because it will all kick off royally and that's not what I want.

Expectans Tue 28-Jan-14 21:54:08

When registering my baby a few weeks ago, the registrar said that if we married in the future we should reregister the birth as the children of married parents are treated differently under UK law. Is this true?

The only person apparently taking offense here is you.

JanePurdy Tue 28-Jan-14 22:07:27

That's what I'm referring to Expectans but BasilandLime seems to be saying otherwise. I would like Basil's point to be true as I think it is an outdated & offensive rule!

Jeanniejampots80 Tue 28-Jan-14 23:00:08

flatmum I am in Ireland and we ask them do they have the right legally to sign the consent forms in a very polite way.

I am almost positive here the birth cert means nothing. Both the parents have to sign a "statutory declaration" before the dad gets rights. If the mum refuses he has to go to court.

JanePurdy Wed 29-Jan-14 06:45:46

jenniejampots that sounds like here in the 80s, my mum took my dad to court so that he had parental responsibility, but he was already on the birth certificate.

flatmum Wed 29-Jan-14 10:25:26

In England, since December 2003, if the Father is named on the birth certificate, he gets automatic parental responsibility, same as the mother, irrespective of their marriage status.

Between birth and registration the unmarried father wouldn't have parental responsibility.

I don't know how any of this effects inheritance, if at all - and would be sorted definitively by a will anyway.

flatmum Wed 29-Jan-14 10:33:33

see here www.rbkc.gov.uk/pdf/FPI%20is%20it%20legal%20Feb_08.pdf

The law sets out who has parental responsibility. You have it automatically if you are:
l The biological mother of the child
l The biological father of the child, and were married to the mother at the
time of conception or birth, or you married the mother after the birth of the child or, for babies born since 2003, you registered the birth of the baby with the mother
l You are adoptive parents once an adoption order is made.

Even if the marriage breaks down, both father and mother will continue to have parental responsibility. Unmarried fathers did not have the same rights and responsibilities as a married father. The Adoption and Children Act 2002 now gives an unmarried father parental responsibility where he and the mother register the birth of their child together.

Even if the unmarried father’s name is not on the original birth certificate, you can now re-register the birth at a later date, adding the father’s details. This will give the father parental responsibility.
See www.gro.gov.uk.

But the Act is not retrospective, so unmarried fathers with children born before 1 December 2003 can still only get a parental responsibility agreement, either by:

l Making an agreement with the mother
l Or by applying to the court for a parental responsibility order.

Unmarried couples wishing to obtain a parental responsibility
agreement have to:
l Obtain a form from a solicitor or family court
l Go in person to the local magistrates court or County Court to get it signed
l Send it to the Principal Registry of the Family Division.
You should note also that an unmarried father who has not got parental
responsibility will have to apply for a court order to obtain the right, if the mother dies.

Jeanniejampots80 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:05:23

Janepurdy yes it is way behind here in legal rights for fathers. Not sure why as no one as far as I know has any issue with it being like it is in England but Dads here are still fighting for the situation to change and hopefully it will soon.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 29-Jan-14 14:31:31

Hello Charingcrossbun

Sorry to butt in on your thread. We've had a couple of reports from people about the use of 'illegitimate' in your thread title. We don't have a problem with it at all (we think it's pretty clear you're using it in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way), but as one or two other posters are getting upset about it, we thought we'd ask you whether you'd like us to change it.

If you'd rather keep it as-is, that's fine of course.

Very best of luck with the birth

MNHQ

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now