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Birth plan for my illegitimate baby :)

(55 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

Charingcrossbun Mon 27-Jan-14 19:00:24

Just had a thought: I'm going to write a birth plan (even though I realise these things can't be planned). It just occurred to me though as we're not married do I need to put something about DP being the dad, my next of kin and having the right to make decisions should it all go wrong & I not be able to (worst case scenario I know). Am I being silly? I don't suppose husbands are asked to bring marriage certificates along but just thought I'd check. grin

DinoSnores Mon 27-Jan-14 19:06:57

I think the MWs are well used to "illegitimate babies" in this day and age! wink

As for next of kin and making decisions, it can be whoever you want it to be as there is no real legal definition of a next of kin in terms of making most medical decisions. The doctors would discuss their decision/options with your partner but it wouldn't be left to your DP to decide everything while the doctors look blankly on.

No one can sign a consent form on your behalf except the doctor in charge of your care, so, say as we are doing worst case scenarios, someone had collapsed and needed an emergency section, it is the doctor who fills in a form saying that you are not capable of making a decision and this has been deemed in your best interests. Doctors don't make decisions in isolation of course and would always, if time allowed, speak to your next of kin/relevant family members.

peeapod Mon 27-Jan-14 19:10:28

im making a will before babies born as a just incase, and babies father and i are married smile

LittleLight82 Mon 27-Jan-14 19:25:25

Not wanting to scaremonger- I'm not sure about the legalities in the UK but I'm from Ireland and just recently found out (via a tragic case in Dublin) that unmarried dads have no legal right of guardianship to their children. So if something awful happens to mum during labour, baby is effectively kin-less unless mum has made a will. In the case here the state had to intervene to request decisions on the baby's care in court despite his dad and grandmother being in full agreement about treatment. I was gobsmacked (and utterly furious)!

So looks like I'll be making a will appointing my partner and daddy of our little illegitorino legal guardian should anything happen to me. Once she's born apparently we have to fill out a legal form appointing him joint guardian with me and have it signed by a justice of the something or other. Seemingly lots of unmarried couples in Ireland aren't aware of this and so if, say, the relationship ends, the dad has absolutely no rights of access to the child. It's horrendous.

Like I say this is only the case in Ireland and I don't know whether this is an issue at all in the UK. But for any Irish couples reading this the Treoir.ie website has information on all the above!

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 20:07:09

It's the same in the UK Little.

The father has no parental rights unless they are married to the mother or on the birth certificate. So if a mother was to unfortunately die in labour/ just after birth, a partner would have no rights. In this instance I think Social Services step in to try and resolve.

This is the reason we got married, to avoid any problems.

Not sure about the legalities of him being your next of kin though.

chocolatedrops31 Mon 27-Jan-14 20:08:05

That's true in the UK in cases where dad is not on the child's birth certificate (where couple are not married). Not sure though what the position is pre birth certificate, I.e. during child birth..not sure if it's been tested yet!

chocolatedrops31 Mon 27-Jan-14 20:09:07

Sorry clargo55-think we cross posted

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 20:11:30

www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

Sorry don't know how to do clickable links on my iPad. That has a few bits about parental rights for your partner.

Would you fancy popping to a registry office and making it 'official' before baby arrives? It makes things much easier financial and legally, now and in the long run.

BasilandLime Mon 27-Jan-14 20:12:54

Geez! Do u have to use that word?

Foxeym Mon 27-Jan-14 20:17:35

That's correct, I was told by my solicitor that god forbid should anything happen to me as my DP and I aren't married legal responsibility for my DC automatically falls to my parents as my legal next of kin!

By far the easiest and safest thing to do is to get married. Nobody even needs to done you've done it but if anything goes badly wrong it puts your man in a far stronger position. In most cases parents and partners will be in agreement but worst case scenario is that something happens to you and your partner has to fight - fight to ensure you are treated as he believes you would have wished and for his child. It's avoidable and even if you trust your parents implicitly I would always advise people to tie the know if they can. It's just the easiest option.

I have a friend whose partner is on the bc for their daughter but who has no rights AT ALL to her other daughter who lives with them and who he is a father to and has been for the last umpteen years in every sense except biologically. It's a very vulnerable position to be in.

Athrawes Mon 27-Jan-14 20:38:41

Personally I'd have thought it easier to pop into the registry office in jeans and a jumper in your lunchbreak and pay the paltry sum to have a marriage certificate witnessed by a pair of strangers (whose day you will make!) than pay some leach lawyer 200 pounds to draw up a will which could then be contested by your family.
Sadly marriage holds the trump card.

I eloped and it was fabulous!

Hawkmoth Mon 27-Jan-14 20:40:27

Slight tangent, but it can be worth putting "call us Don and Fiona"... Or whatever in your birth plan. "Mum and Dad" can be a bit tiresome.

grobagsforever Mon 27-Jan-14 20:50:46

Oh for petes sake, surely common sense would prevail? SS are hardly going to separate a child from its father.

Charingcrossbun Mon 27-Jan-14 20:53:47

Wow! Thanks ladies
Food for thought!
Basilandlime I was joking with my thread title - don't worry won't be referring to DC as an illegitimate bastard grin
The thought of a secret marriage is interesting.... I'm really not a wedding fan and I just hate the fact that you have to use the term wife (totally know this is a weird view to have and the majority of people are 100% fine with it -
i kind of wosh i was but it makes my insides squirm at the thought...) I guess I'd never heard a good argument before but cheaper than getting a lawyer is pretty simple and compelling.....
I really wish I could have a civil partnership soo much more palatable (again sorry I know that's controversial - but it would be fairer!

You can still describe one another as 'partner'.

Grobags - ultimately no, I don't think they would, assuming that the father can show he was in a relationship and isn't about to serve 50 years for murdering the mother etc etc. The point is though why have to jump through hoops and stress and upset when you don't need to. Nobody can argue with a marriage certificate. Not parents, not siblings. It's just the easiest, most foolproof and ^cheapest6 way of getting the result the Op wants.

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 21:35:08

Grobag, I have read about a case where a father had to go through the courts to get parental rights and custody of his son after the mother died in child birth.

Will try to google a link.

It is rare and I guess it changes by county as to what agency's involvements would be.

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 21:40:19

www.fatherhoodinstitute.org/2012/why-is-an-unmarried-father-treated-as-a-stranger-to-his-baby-if-the-mother-dies-in-childbirth/

Sorry I cannot do clickable links on iPad. This mentions a case in the UK where a unmarried mother dies in child birth. The father was not allowed to take the baby home and had to gain parental rights through the courts.

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 21:45:33

Also read point two in this link

www.consumeruk.co.uk/32.asp

Outlines all the things a father cannot do without parental rights and why it would be unsuitable to just had the baby over without parental rights being obtained.

It also states the courts usually favour the father. But they are not always granted parental responsibility and it can get messy if other family members try to also gain responsibility.

Obviously it's very rare to die in childbirth and very likely if you did the courts would grant parental responsibility to your partner. However, I really think its worth just having a quick registry office wedding thus ensuring if the worst we're to happen they wouldn't be separated for any amount of time.

mel0dy Mon 27-Jan-14 22:40:21

Bloody hell all this is disturbing. I absolutely refuse to allow the state to bully me into getting married, but I don't want DP to be

mel0dy Mon 27-Jan-14 22:41:24

...vulnerable should something awful happen. (Stoopid phone). Arg!

mousmous Mon 27-Jan-14 22:46:51

that's exactly why dh and I got married before dc1 arrived.
cost us 100£ at the registry office and we had a nice meal at wagamama a cheap chain restaurant afterwards.

Shellywelly1973 Mon 27-Jan-14 22:53:40

I never married Exdp. Recently drew up a new will. There is no one to take my 3 dc & new baby due this week.

They would go into care should something happen to me. Exdp doesn't want a relationship with any of the dc. He doesn't want his name on the new baby's birth certificate. Actually his name is only on our older 2 dc birth certificates.

It's a horrible state of affairs that i have no control over & have to accept.

I can see why he's your ex! What sort of man abandons his dcs? shock

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